bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 so without further ado it's that time of year again the thread for real die hards. watched BUF game again, things i liked: Drob 2 hurries, constant force up the middle. Ellis and Coleman doing an adequate to very good job. Revis blitzing and in coverage, had an extremely good day despite the late FF attempt. a young number one CB. Harris playing like a wild dog, better than Vilma in this defense. Barton absolutely laying lumber, causing serious damage. Average (not terrible) starters who could be playing better: Thomas, Hobson, Rhodes. but this is overall a young talented defensive core that play good enough to win games. Obviously not an amazing unit at 1-7, and defensively their offseason needs are shaping up as follows: starting pass rush OLB (Bowens isn't doing anything on real defense) rotational NT (regardless of Drob, Sione Pouha was a bad draft pick) starting safety (A. Elam, E Coleman and E Smith are not special). injured player everyone has forgotten about who could make a difference in 08: Justin Miller. *** as for the offense, things to be optimistic about: Chad being benched, nuff said. Mangold is a young explosive leader only getting better. DBrick can shut down finesse big names like Freeney and Taylor. Cotchery will replace the great warrior Coles when his day comes. Brad Smith is an exciting player, and one of best STers. Leon Wash for Herman Edwards is still a very good trade. Chris Baker catches anything thrown his way and underutilized over the middle. Thomas Jones was in fact worth the money, it's not his fault they try to use him in the Short Yardage situations that Cedric Houston would have taken. J McC becomes relevant again without Chad. injured player everyone has forgotten about who could make a difference in 08: Matt McChesney. average but not terrible starters who could be playing better: Moore, Clement. assuming Clemens can play, offensive needs aren't as bad as one would think: starting OG: Clarke is terrible - regardless of Bender (grooming for RT?). starting FB: they don't have a lead blocker who can stay active on gameday. Short yardage RB:- ask any Bears fan, they will tell you about Thomas Jones on 3rd and short. in fairness to Tangini they had Ced Houston in that role last year. rotational/backup TE: Ryan and Ko-whatever-ski aren't special. backup OC: Wade Smith made this roster by default; he stinks. backup OT: this is the front desk paging Adrian Jones; you also stink. it's ok to hate the team but I choose to go the other way. that's your choice as a fan but don't forget whether comedy or tragedy it is entertainment at the end of the day. "for the die hard, it's not the quality, merely the consumption that matters." -Nick Hornby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Do you know anything about either Raji or Morton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 so without further ado it's that time of year again the thread for real die hards. watched BUF game again, things i liked: Drob 2 hurries, constant force up the middle. Ellis and Coleman doing an adequate to very good job. Revis blitzing and in coverage, had an extremely good day despite the late FF attempt. a young number one CB. Harris playing like a wild dog, better than Vilma in this defense. Barton absolutely laying lumber, causing serious damage. Average (not terrible) starters who could be playing better: Thomas, Hobson, Rhodes. but this is overall a young talented defensive core that play good enough to win games. Obviously not an amazing unit at 1-7, and defensively their offseason needs are shaping up as follows: starting pass rush OLB (Bowens isn't doing anything on real defense) rotational NT (regardless of Drob, Sione Pouha was a bad draft pick) starting safety (A. Elam, E Coleman and E Smith are not special). injured player everyone has forgotten about who could make a difference in 08: Justin Miller. *** as for the offense, things to be optimistic about: Chad being benched, nuff said. Mangold is a young explosive leader only getting better. DBrick can shut down finesse big names like Freeney and Taylor. Cotchery will replace the great warrior Coles when his day comes. Brad Smith is an exciting player, and one of best STers. Leon Wash for Herman Edwards is still a very good trade. Chris Baker catches anything thrown his way and underutilized over the middle. Thomas Jones was in fact worth the money, it's not his fault they try to use him in the Short Yardage situations that Cedric Houston would have taken. J McC becomes relevant again without Chad. injured player everyone has forgotten about who could make a difference in 08: Matt McChesney. average but not terrible starters who could be playing better: Moore, Clement. assuming Clemens can play, offensive needs aren't as bad as one would think: starting OG: Clarke is terrible - regardless of Bender (grooming for RT?). starting FB: they don't have a lead blocker who can stay active on gameday. Short yardage RB:- ask any Bears fan, they will tell you about Thomas Jones on 3rd and short. in fairness to Tangini they had Ced Houston in that role last year. rotational/backup TE: Ryan and Ko-whatever-ski aren't special. backup OC: Wade Smith made this roster by default; he stinks. backup OT: this is the front desk paging Adrian Jones; you also stink. it's ok to hate the team but I choose to go the other way. that's your choice as a fan but don't forget whether comedy or tragedy it is entertainment at the end of the day. "for the die hard, it's not the quality, merely the consumption that matters." -Nick Hornby What about the other CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 What about the other CB read the post my guess is Justin Miller, who looked great in pre-season. If he doesn't make it back I agree they definately could go to the draft again. it's a position you can never have enough great CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 read the post my guess is Justin Miller, who looked great in pre-season. If he doesn't make it back I agree they definately could go to the draft again. it's a position you can never have enough great CB. yes i saw u mention JM but I thought he would be more of a nickel and still think they need upgrade barrett, poteat, Dyson Coleman may replace poteat, barrett needs to go, and who know what happen to Dyson since he got hurt end of last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 The problem with this is, the Bills suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 The problem with this is, the Bills suck. even if we accept that for sake of argument the Jets have been within 1 score with a chance to tie or win late in the 4th quarter in every game except for the Pats game. personally I believe the Bills even with Losman will win a bunch of games down the stretch. they have two easy ones coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 even if we accept that for sake of argument the Jets have been within 1 score with a chance to tie or win late in the 4th quarter in every game except for the Pats game. personally I believe the Bills even with Losman will win a bunch of games down the stretch. they have two easy ones coming up. We need to figure out a way to stop the run. Point blank. If we cant do that, all this upside we say out of guys really deosnt mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 We need to figure out a way to stop the run. Point blank. If we cant do that, all this upside we say out of guys really deosnt mean anything. the defense played well enough to win, not just last week but many weeks this year. they aren't doomsday but they stop the run in key spots and always get the offense the ball back with plenty of time to win or tie. the defense can always improve but giving up 13 points to any NFL team is an extremely respectable effort. now we can bring up the CIN or NE efforts but for the most part the defense has been at least passable. Offense has been terrible that and the schedule is pretty much why they are 1-7. I'm not going to moan about it, or even root for losses, there are too many weekends in the year without football. only 8 game days left, i'm still pullin for em - that's why they call it a being a die hard fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 The defense has not been good this year-I can not see how anyone can say that Bit-no offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 the defense played well enough to win, not just last week but many weeks this year. they aren't doomsday but they stop the run in key spots and always get the offense the ball back with plenty of time to win or tie. the defense can always improve but giving up 13 points to any NFL team is an extremely respectable effort. now we can bring up the CIN or NE efforts but for the most part the defense has been at least passable. Offense has been terrible that and the schedule is pretty much why they are 1-7. I'm not going to moan about it, or even root for losses, there are too many weekends in the year without football. only 8 game days left, i'm still pullin for em - that's why they call it a being a die hard fan. I am ever the optimist and always try to see the silver lining with this team, however this D is horrible, period. How many times have we seen them get a 3 and out this year? How many times have we seen the opponent go on a 15 play drive? How about the opponent starting inside their own 10 and driving the length of the field? How many times has the opponent run down the Jets collective throats? How about a sack once in a while? How about some pressure once in a while? The long TD passes are the result of boneheaded plays by individuals (Dyson, Elam) so I won't put that on the entire unit, but this is truly one of the worst defenses in the NFL at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 The defense has not been good this year-I can not see how anyone can say that Bit-no offense. i never said they were 'good' what i said was they played well enough to win. they give up an average of 17 points a contest, and take out NE and CIN that number dips to about 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 read the post my guess is Justin Miller, who looked great in pre-season. If he doesn't make it back I agree they definately could go to the draft again. it's a position you can never have enough great CB. i had miller pegged as the jets defensive MVP this year. I really thought he would make strides with Revis breathing down his neck, pushing Miller to play better. I still think Miller and Revis can be an excellent duo, and i'm glad we have them while they are young, we can always trade a great CB later on, and still get a lot in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeru Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Nice post - we were spoiled last year with Mangenious - but there's a nice base... Also - would have liked to see what Stuckey does .... as another sleeper for future years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 i never said they were 'good' what i said was they played well enough to win. they give up an average of 17 points a contest, and take out NE and CIN that number dips to about 13. Well how many points is the defense not really responsible for? I mean: - interceptions returned for touchdowns (I think there were two) - interceptions or fumbles resulting in the other team taking over in FG range - KO/punt return TD's (I think there was just the one vs NE) - a reasonable allowance/tolerance for the offense turning the ball over & giving up maybe 1 or 2 first-downs to put the other team in FG range. Subtract that from the total points the Jets have surrendered (205) & that's what the DEFENSE has given up. It's probably around 22 ppg. I'd even allow a mulligan vs NE b/c they've been blowing everyone away & technically our defense gave up 31 points to them (still sucks, but better than most of their other opponents). Absent that game, it's close to 20ppg that the defense is totally at fault. Given the awful play, playcalling, gameplanning, the badly miscast/bad-performing starters (DRob & Vilma most notably), and a couple of bad-break plays (Plaxico, Evans, etc), actually that's not insanely bad. Get a legit 3-4 NT (this one's tough), a more aptly fit ILB in Harris (already begun), better secondary play (keep in mind, Revis IS still a rookie & opposite him has been garbage), at least average play from Thomas, and a real 3-4 OLB opposite him, and this unit - oddly enough - could be a top-10 defense next season. Of course the gameplanning needs improvement as well, but better players hide a lot of gameplanning/in-game mistakes. How's that for die-hard optimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 It's probably around 22 ppg. according to NFL.com the defense has given up 17.9 ppg - that number includes 38 against NE, 38 against CIN, 35 against the giants and 28 against miami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 according to NFL.com the defense has given up 17.9 ppg - that number includes 38 against NE, 38 against CIN, 35 against the giants and 28 against miami Where on nfl.com are you getting that from? That adds up to 143 points in 8 games. The entire team has surrendered 205 points (25.6 ppg). Are teams scoring almost 8 ppg against us when their defense, kickoff/returning, and punt/returning units are on the field? It would be encouraging, but I find that hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Where on nfl.com are you getting that from? That adds up to 143 points in 8 games. my mistake i was looking at the wrong stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 OK, now that you guys have neatly quantified everything, I now realize that the '07 Jets D = '85 Bears D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 OK, now that you guys have neatly quantified everything, I now realize that the '07 Jets D = '85 Bears D. I'm pretty sure we have given up negative 13 points this year on defense. Not bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Well how many points is the defense not really responsible for? I mean: - interceptions returned for touchdowns (I think there were two) - interceptions or fumbles resulting in the other team taking over in FG range - KO/punt return TD's (I think there was just the one vs NE) - a reasonable allowance/tolerance for the offense turning the ball over & giving up maybe 1 or 2 first-downs to put the other team in FG range. Subtract that from the total points the Jets have surrendered (205) & that's what the DEFENSE has given up. It's probably around 22 ppg. I'd even allow a mulligan vs NE b/c they've been blowing everyone away & technically our defense gave up 31 points to them (still sucks, but better than most of their other opponents). Absent that game, it's close to 20ppg that the defense is totally at fault. Given the awful play, playcalling, gameplanning, the badly miscast/bad-performing starters (DRob & Vilma most notably), and a couple of bad-break plays (Plaxico, Evans, etc), actually that's not insanely bad. Get a legit 3-4 NT (this one's tough), a more aptly fit ILB in Harris (already begun), better secondary play (keep in mind, Revis IS still a rookie & opposite him has been garbage), at least average play from Thomas, and a real 3-4 OLB opposite him, and this unit - oddly enough - could be a top-10 defense next season. Of course the gameplanning needs improvement as well, but better players hide a lot of gameplanning/in-game mistakes. How's that for die-hard optimism? Excellent points. And look at the difference with just replacing the ill suited Vilma with Harris made last week. They also have to keep up with the varied blitzing (i.e. - Revis) to keep getting pressure on the QB. They did a good job of that the second half of last year and seemed to forget how in the first 7 games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 i am bumping this in the hopes of getting the punch me face off thread the first page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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