Blackout Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Clemens and Canseco were teammates on the Sawx in 95 and 96 he probably started using roids around this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 canseco was on DP this afternoon and he denies ever seeing roga use roids. he did say Arod is a user!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 canseco was on DP this afternoon and he denies ever seeing roga use roids. he did say Arod is a user!!!!!!! Like I said yesterday , IMHO, Jose should just STFU. Just trying to keep his name out there to sell more books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Clemens and Canseco were teammates on the Sawx in 95 and 96 he probably started using roids around this time Possible. I would say maybe by the end of 96 when he was real good after being crap for the most part of three + years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Possible. I would say maybe by the end of 96 when he was real good after being crap for the most part of three + years. look at how much his innings went up in 1996 compared to before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 It's not about what team, it's about players using and the league burying its head for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 canseco was on DP this afternoon and he denies ever seeing roga use roids. he did say Arod is a user!!!!!!! I'm sure that has nothing to do with Canseco desperately trying to keep his name relevant and in the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing2022000 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 http://chicksthatchew.com/ko0019.php We've all seen this story before, haven't we? A professional athlete is called out as a steroid user and instead of immediately jumping on live TV or live radio to defend themselves, they have their agent or lawyer release a statement saying that the accusations are completely untrue. Has the story of any athlete accused of steroid abuse ever not gone this way? Additionally, has an athlete in America ever been proven to be innocent after being linked to steroids? As you have undoubtedly heard by now, Roger Clemens, one of the best starting pitchers in baseball history, was named in the Mitchell Report that was released yesterday. The report details his steroid use in the late 90's and into the 2000's. The accusations are told by Brian McNamee, a strength coach for the Toronto Blue Jays from 1998-2000, and then with the Yankees starting in 2000. Clemens apparently was the reason the Yankees hired McNamee. So you don't have to read through the 400+ pages in the report to see what Clemens is accused of, here are some of the highlights and also some interesting statistics. "On or about June 8-10, 1998, the Toronto Blue Jays played an away series with the Florida Marlins." "Toward the end of the road trip which included the Marlins series, or shortly after the Blue Jays returned home to Toronto, Clemens approached McNamee and, for the first time, brought up the subject of using steroids. Clemens said that he was not able to inject himself, and he asked for McNamee's help." "Later that summer, Clemens asked McNamee to inject him with Winstrol, which Clemens supplied. McNamee knew the substance was Winstrol because the vials Clemens gave him were so labeled. McNamee injected Clemens approximately four times in the buttocks over a several-week period with needles that Clemens provided." Looking at Clemens stats from 1998, he in fact started one of those games against the Marlins, on June 8th. The report states that "later that summer" McNamee injected Clemens. McNamee obviously doesn't remember the exact date he started injecting Clemens or it would be in the report. I am simply going to guess, and say that it was a little over a month later, on July 12. Here are Clemens' stats from 1998. 1998 Stats, before July 12: 9-6 record, 3.55 ERA, 119 IP, 47 ER 1998 Stats, after July 12: 11-0 record, 1.71 ERA, 115.2 IP, 22 ER Wow, what a coincidence. Clemens really hit his stride "later that summer." Here is another interesting stat from 1998. In his first 11 starts that year, Clemens had ZERO games in which he struck out at least 10 batters. In his final 11 starts, he had SEVEN such games. Weird. "In 1999, Clemens was traded to the New York Yankees. McNamee remained under contract with the Blue Jays for the 1999 season." What a stunner that Clemens had a down year in 1999 without his buddy McNamee, going 14-10 with a 4.60 ERA. Presumably, McNamee was the only person Clemens felt comfortable enough to let put a needle in his ass. "In 2000, the Yankees hired McNamee as the strength and conditioning coach under Jeff Mangold. According to McNamee, the Yankees hired him because Clemens persuaded them to do so." "According to McNamee, during the middle of the 2000 season Clemens made it clear that he was ready to use steroids again. During the latter part of the regular season, McNamee injected Clemens in the buttocks four to six times with testosterone from a bottle labeled either Sustanon 250 or Deca-Durabolin that McNamee had obtained from Radomski." So "in the middle of the 2000 season" Clemens started using steroids again. Lets take a look at his stats from the first 3 months, and the last 3 months of the season. April-June 2000: 4-6 record, 4.76 ERA, 81.1 IP, 43 ER July-Sep 2000: 9-2 record, 3.00 ERA, 123 IP, 41 ER Simply amazing. No wonder so many players were using steroids. They're like magic! And once again.... "McNamee said that he and Clemens did not have any conversations regarding performance enhancing substances from late 2000 until August 2001." "According to McNamee, Clemens advised him in August 2001 that he was again ready to use steroids. Shortly thereafter, McNamee injected Clemens with Sustanon or Deca-Durabolin on four to five occasions at Clemens's apartment." 2001 Stats, April-July: 15-1 record, 3.58 ERA, 148.1 IP, 59 ER 2001 Stats, August thru playoffs: 6-3 record, 3.10 ERA, 98.2 IP, 34 ER While Clemens' record obviously didn't get any better, his ERA did. And ERA is the only thing he has control of. Also, at his age, numbers typically don't improve at the end of the year (look at Glavine last year). Clemens on the other hand allowed just 2 earned runs in his last 3 starts. In the four seasons prior to going to Toronto, from 1993 to 1996, Clemens had a 40-39 record. The Mitchell Report states Clemens started using steroids in 1998. Over those next four years, from 1998-2001, Clemens went 67-27. That's 27 more wins and 12 fewer losses in the exact amount of time. In addition, Clemens turned 39 years old in 2001, an age in which 95% of pitchers are retired, not posting 20 win seasons. If there were ever any stats that proved someone was on steroids, these are it. File these under the least surprising stats ever. Roger Clemens was over the hill and on the downside of his career in 1996 at the age of 34. By 2005, at 43 years old, he was possibly the best pitcher in baseball history. There is a reason Clemens was named in the Mitchell report and Pedro Martinez and Ken Griffey, Jr wasn't. You aren't supposed to improve at age 40. All of the players implicated in the Mitchell Report are in the exact same situation as the one's mentioned in the Canseco book. There is really not any proof of anything. So, as an athlete, if you are completely innocent, why aren't you suing the people implicating you? Go under oath. Take a lie-detector test. Clemens has hundred of millions of dollars he could use to take legal action. But he won't, of course. So what was Clemens' course of action, just hours after the Mitchell Report was released? He had his lawyer release a statement saying he is completely innocent. Big. ****ing. Surprise. Where you at, Roger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 statistically speaking, look at how much his innings jumped in 96 he probably started then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 statistically speaking, look at how much his innings jumped in 96 he probably started then Probably. Irrelevant, though. He hit the juice hard regardless of what lid he wore. Besides, it's not like he'll lose much love in Boston, if anything it validates what many have said about him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I don't think many of us will argue that he used roids. I will not totally discredit his accomplishments because I believe he was facing lineups of roided up hitters too. That being said Roger has lost all respect from me. He is a cheater in my book, along with the other thousands of players that have also juiced. Yes, I said thousands. The Mitchell report is just the tip of the iceberg. Let's not kid ourselves here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Probably. Irrelevant, though. He hit the juice hard regardless of what lid he wore. Besides, it's not like he'll lose much love in Boston, if anything it validates what many have said about him! While in Boston as his contract year approached, I am sure Canseco gave him some tips. Especially, in that offseason as he signed with the Jays and came to the next spring training in the best shape of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 While in Boston as his contract year approached, I am sure Canseco gave him some tips. Especially, in that offseason as he signed with the Jays and came to the next spring training in the best shape of his career. Coincidence? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 canseco was on DP this afternoon and he denies ever seeing roga use roids. he did say Arod is a user!!!!!!! arod has a huge melon,,are there any before/after melon/physique shots of arod, like there are of bonds,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 AROD 1994 AROD seattle AROD texas AROD Yankees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing2022000 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 AROD 1994 AROD seattle AROD texas AROD Yankees What is it with Yankees and roids? He's huge in that last pic. Much bigger than in the other ones. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 LOL.....I think ARod was 19 in Seattle and in his early to mid 20's in Texas Anyone here the same size at 32 as they were at 19? I'm not saying he's clean as who knows anymore but I wouldn't use those pics as evidence. I cant wait to hear Michael Kay, Sterling and Waldman speak about Andy and Roger once the season starts next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 What is it with Yankees and roids? He's huge in that last pic. Much bigger than in the other ones. LOL Camera focus. The last picture is zoomed in quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I chose those pics because they were good shots of his head. Its obvious he hasnt used HGH or his head would be warped. and I dont think there is much change with his muscular build from seattle to the yankees. Its those alien eyes of him that make him "great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I love how people can tell from pictures whether or not a person uses steroids. It's one of the better things on message boards, really. A-Rod is in his mid-30s in the last pic, from 19 in the first pic. He's getting paid to play baseball. WTF do you think he does in EVERY SINGLE offseason? He works out, constantly, day after day. What do you think he did when he was traded to the Yankees and had to beef up to play 3rd base? He went on a specific program to gain weight and muscle. It IS possible that players can gain a lot of weight in 13 years. Football players do it ALL THE TIME. Also nice job using a zoomed-in picture on the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I love how people can tell from pictures whether or not a person uses steroids. It's one of the better things on message boards, really. A-Rod is in his mid-30s in the last pic, from 19 in the first pic. He's getting paid to play baseball. WTF do you think he does in EVERY SINGLE offseason? He works out, constantly, day after day. What do you think he did when he was traded to the Yankees and had to beef up to play 3rd base? He went on a specific program to gain weight and muscle. It IS possible that players can gain a lot of weight in 13 years. Football players do it ALL THE TIME. Also nice job using a zoomed-in picture on the last one. Of course, this only excuses A-Rod.. Big Papi will still be called out for no reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Also, if you check Clemens stats from the end of his Boston Days 3.5+ ERA (twice above 4) in 3 of his last 4 years and then he goes to Toronto and posts two career Cy Young winning years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I love how people can tell from pictures whether or not a person uses steroids. It's one of the better things on message boards, really. A-Rod is in his mid-30s in the last pic, from 19 in the first pic. He's getting paid to play baseball. WTF do you think he does in EVERY SINGLE offseason? He works out, constantly, day after day. What do you think he did when he was traded to the Yankees and had to beef up to play 3rd base? He went on a specific program to gain weight and muscle. It IS possible that players can gain a lot of weight in 13 years. Football players do it ALL THE TIME. Also nice job using a zoomed-in picture on the last one. uhh.... D-Brick... I didnt pick the pictures to say he used roids. I do not believe he did. I picked the best photos I could find. Nice job assuming I had an ulterior motive behind my photo choices, but wrong. As stated in a previous post, I chose the pics that best showed his head. HGH makes things grow. Roids make things grow. Heads dont grow because of working out. And the pictures clearly show his head shape hasnt changed since he was a teen. I do agree its tough to prove someone did roids based on long term muscle mass growth. But if a guy comes into spring training 20-30 heavier and ripped, he is most likely using the roids. There is no way you can gain that much muscle in that short period of time. Arod has never shown this gain. Others have over the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 uhh.... D-Brick... I didnt pick the pictures to say he used roids. I do not believe he did. I picked the best photos I could find. Nice job assuming I had an ulterior motive behind my photo choices, but wrong. As stated in a previous post, I chose the pics that best showed his head. HGH makes things grow. Roids make things grow. Heads dont grow because of working out. And the pictures clearly show his head shape hasnt changed since he was a teen. I do agree its tough to prove someone did roids based on long term muscle mass growth. But if a guy comes into spring training 20-30 heavier and ripped, he is most likely using the roids. There is no way you can gain that much muscle in that short period of time. Arod has never shown this gain. Others have over the last 20 years. I wasn't talking about you, except for the last picture part. I was talking about how other people were looking at the pictures and judging, and how people do that in general. Also, I've not said a word about Big Papi but I'm sure if you look at photos of him from his early playing days until now that he is most definitely bigger. That's why photos mean nothing. Everyone gets bigger as their careers go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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