Mcfadden cant miss? Think again

[Matt39]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=335333

Think McFadden is a can't-miss NFL prospect? Think again

Posted: January 10, 2008

I hate to burst the bubble of Darren McFadden and all the draftniks who think he's the second coming of Adrian Peterson, but he isn't. Honestly, you shouldn't even use both names in the same sentence.

Yes, McFadden ran for a ton of yards at Arkansas and was a two-time Heisman Trophy runnerup. But I've watched him on film and up close in the Cotton Bowl, and I've seen no special qualities that will make him an exceptional running back.

McFadden has breakaway speed, I'll give him that. And he's fearless putting hits on defenders. But that's part of his problem -- he initiates contact. Unless you're built like Earl Campbell -- a mountain of a man whose career was nevertheless shortened to eight seasons because of injuries -- you won't last as a running back in the NFL by seeking contact.

A running back's most important quality is elusiveness. Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton -- all the great ones had it. So do current stars such as Peterson and LaDainian Tomlinson. Their methods differed, but these backs had the key to turning a 2-yard gain into a 22-yard gain -- and to surviving a brutal profession. They knew how to make tacklers miss. McFadden doesn't.

He also lacks the vision that is critical to finding open field. That's why he initiates contact -- he can't see the daylight to run to. He's a classic I-formation back who needs a fullback to lead the way. If the fullback gets caught in traffic, McFadden runs right up his back, rarely making the cut that would allow him to gain more yards.

I do believe an Arkansas running back should go in the first round of the draft. That would be Felix Jones, who, like McFadden, is a junior who is expected to declare for the draft. With his vision, moves and speed, Jones will be a better pro than McFadden.

When the Saints played at Chicago in Week 17, Pierre Thomas of New Orleans made his first NFL start. Thomas was an undrafted rookie out of Illinois, but you couldn't tell by watching him. He showed nifty moves, great vision and balance, power up the middle, soft hands and the ability to break tackles. He ran for 105 yards on 20 carries and caught 12 passes for another 121 yards. Reggie Bush has never had an NFL game like that.

Fact is, I'd take Thomas over McFadden, straight up. In a heartbeat. Brian Baldinger, an offensive lineman for 12 NFL seasons, can be heard on Sporting News Radio and seen on Fox Sports. Listen online at http://radio.sportingnews.com.

[The Troll]

Two things about this:

1.) A lot of McFadden haters have claimed he simply runs through gigantic holes, however this seems to contradict this by saying he initiates contact.

2.) That's exactly what Adrian Peterson does.

[serphnx]

Oh yes, McFadden is such a durability question mark! He will never be like iron man Adrian Peterson! I wonder if this guy even did any research or anything, his complaints seem weak and he just seems like the average casual fan that has brought into the AP hype and considers him the benchmark for all RBs, even though, especially down the stretch, he wasn't showing he was even the best RB on his own team. AP has a long way to go before I will consider him better than LT.

[124]

LT brings 8 into the box.

Adrian Peterson brings 9 into the box.

When Chester Taylor came in the Defense took a break and the usual 6 or 7 up front.

This is no secret.

[Matt39]

Two things about this:

1.) A lot of McFadden haters have claimed he simply runs through gigantic holes, however this seems to contradict this by saying he initiates contact.

2.) That's exactly what Adrian Peterson does.

Peterson showed more in college than Mcfadden. Plus, he didnt play in a gimmick offense that froze defenders- which wont happen at the next level.

[Gainzo]

Peterson showed more in college than Mcfadden. Plus, he didnt play in a gimmick offense that froze defenders- which wont happen at the next level.

I didn't see many Arkansas games but didn't McFadden line up as the QB a bunch of times?

[CoachTsurfing]

I didn't see many Arkansas games but didn't McFadden line up as the QB a bunch of times?

Yes, and my big complaint was that he never played well against big school defenses. He had one nice game against a top 10 team this year. But, that being said, I would have loved for us to be in position to draft him so that we might have the chance to trade out of that spot for a boat load of picks. Our team needs so much that one position won't solve our problems. Also I do think that Mcfadden is just as good if not a little better then Jones. So if we were going to keep the mcfadden pick I wanted us to trade Jones. but since we beat kc and probably won't have a chance to draft him it doesn't matter anyways. my biggest nightmare right now is that mangina gets some crazy notion to trade up for him.

[TheMacExchange]

McFadden is an upright runner, it's a well know fact. In the history of football, not many of those types make it. Out of the ones that due, have short careers. We have many holes to fill. We don't have a problem with our Rb's we have a problem with our O-Lineman. Even Peterson wouldn't have been able to due with the Jets this year like he did with the Vikes. We can't afford to gamble like that. We need too many other positions to fill.

[Irish Jet]

Yes, and my big complaint was that he never played well against big school defenses. He had one nice game against a top 10 team this year. But, that being said, I would have loved for us to be in position to draft him so that we might have the chance to trade out of that spot for a boat load of picks. Our team needs so much that one position won't solve our problems. Also I do think that Mcfadden is just as good if not a little better then Jones. So if we were going to keep the mcfadden pick I wanted us to trade Jones. but since we beat kc and probably won't have a chance to draft him it doesn't matter anyways. my biggest nightmare right now is that mangina gets some crazy notion to trade up for him.

He has absolutley torn apart LSU's D. One of the best D's in CFB!!!

[CoachTsurfing]

Yeah, Irish, that was his one game against a good d that he did well. But if you compare him to jones I think they are about the same with the edge going to mcfadden because of age and being a little faster. so unless you are going to trade jones no sense in taking him.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yeah, Irish, that was his one game against a good d that he did well. But if you compare him to jones I think they are about the same with the edge going to mcfadden because of age and being a little faster. so unless you are going to trade jones no sense in taking him.

Trade Jones for what? A 5th rounder? Even if we took McFadden, we're better off keeping Jones. He's $5M on the cap to keep, $9M on the cap to cut/trade before June 1st (read: pre-draft), and $6M on the '08 cap + $3M on the '09 cap to cut/trade after June 1st.

There is no way Thomas Jones is getting cut or traded this year. In any scenario, it's cheaper to keep him & we won't get near the 3rd-round value we gave up for him anyway.

I wonder if it's dawning upon Mangini that a RB with a name does not a running game make. Put a solid line out there with some less-obvious play calling & THEN judge the talent (or lack of) that you've got at the position.

[#27TheDominator]

I wonder if it's dawning upon Mangini that a RB with a name does not a running game make. Put a solid line out there with some less-obvious play calling & THEN judge the talent (or lack of) that you've got at the position.

You think that's fair? You are going to blame Mangini for going after a RB in the offseason? Sure they need a better line, but if they went into '07 without adding Jones they would be in the ****ter way deeper. Barlow, Houston and Leon. Two are out of football and one is a midget. Let the market dictate the talent they've got at the position. Sure Washington is a nice back, but he's a short 4th round pick and they'd have needed more than him. BARLOW, cut at his request- OUT OF THE NFL. HOUSTON, retired OUT OF THE NFL.

I'm not thoroughly in love with having Jones, but without that trade they'd have needed to draft a back. Even if you feel you can count on later round backs (I don't subscribe to that currently in vouge theory) they would have had to hold on to the picks they gave them the flexibility to trade up for Revis and Harris. There may have been cheaper options than Jones, but there is no way any of you geniuses could sell me on going into the season with Leon, Danny Ware and Banks as our backfield.

[Sperm Edwards]

You think that's fair? You are going to blame Mangini for going after a RB in the offseason? Sure they need a better line, but if they went into '07 without adding Jones they would be in the ****ter way deeper. Barlow, Houston and Leon. Two are out of football and one is a midget. Let the market dictate the talent they've got at the position. Sure Washington is a nice back, but he's a short 4th round pick and they'd have needed more than him. BARLOW, cut at his request- OUT OF THE NFL. HOUSTON, retired OUT OF THE NFL.

I'm not thoroughly in love with having Jones, but without that trade they'd have needed to draft a back. Even if you feel you can count on later round backs (I don't subscribe to that currently in vouge theory) they would have had to hold on to the picks they gave them the flexibility to trade up for Revis and Harris. There may have been cheaper options than Jones, but there is no way any of you geniuses could sell me on going into the season with Leon, Danny Ware and Banks as our backfield.

And the result of doing so would have been what? Worse than 4-12?

I don't blame them for going after A running back in the off-season. I blame them for giving up so much in draft value & cap space for this PARTICULAR running back.

I would have been plenty happy going into the season with Leon & $700K TJ Duckett or even lower-priced Najeh Davenport for a year & kept the original early 2nd-round pick (negating the need to trade back up & give up a 3rd & 5th or whatever it was for Harris), and taken a guard prospect that wasn't a total project like Beekman or Ramirez (granted, neither played as rookies). Use the extra money not pissed away on Thomas Jones for a real LG like Dockery. Overpriced as he may have seemed, he was young, experienced, a beast of a man, and good.

Dockery + Leon/Duckett-Davenport + Beekman/Ramirez + 5th and 6th round picks

is a better use of cap dollars & draft picks than

Thomas Jones + Adrian Clarke + Jacob Bender

And it's not even close.

I know I oversimplify things to the extreme, as though you just put anyone with 2 legs back there & they'll get 1300 yds behind a solid OL. Of course I don't believe that. But there are a number of lesser-talented RB's who can outperform more-talented ones if the differences in OL personnel are so drastic. Not to mention, you can draft a (perceived) upgrade at RB any year, at any time, and he doesn't need to be "groomed" into the position nearly the same way a lineman does.

[#27TheDominator]

And the result of doing so would have been what? Worse than 4-12?

I don't blame them for going after A running back in the off-season. I blame them for giving up so much in draft value & cap space for this PARTICULAR running back.

I would have been plenty happy going into the season with Leon & $700K TJ Duckett or even lower-priced Najeh Davenport for a year & kept the original early 2nd-round pick (negating the need to trade back up & give up a 3rd & 5th or whatever it was for Harris), and taken a guard prospect that wasn't a total project like Beekman or Ramirez (granted, neither played as rookies). Use the extra money not pissed away on Thomas Jones for a real LG like Dockery. Overpriced as he may have seemed, he was young, experienced, a beast of a man, and good.

Dockery + Leon/Duckett-Davenport + Beekman/Ramirez + 5th and 6th round picks

is a better use of cap dollars & draft picks than

Thomas Jones + Adrian Clarke + Jacob Bender

And it's not even close.

I know I oversimplify things to the extreme, as though you just put anyone with 2 legs back there & they'll get 1300 yds behind a solid OL. Of course I don't believe that. But there are a number of lesser-talented RB's who can outperform more-talented ones if the differences in OL personnel are so drastic. Not to mention, you can draft a (perceived) upgrade at RB any year, at any time, and he doesn't need to be "groomed" into the position nearly the same way a lineman does.

My problem with your theory is in bold. I know that you realize it's an oversimplification, but my problem is that your legion of minions actually believe that we'd be better off with a 62 year old Clark Gaines and a passable OG than Jones with Clarke. I'm sure the FO didn't expect to be 4-12 and there was good reason to go after a decent back. I think they appreciate Jones work ethic and the fact that his mouth isn't so big. Can't say that about Davenport or Duckett.

Another problem with your simplifications is that if we got Duckett/Davenport here they'd have been expecting more $$ too because it would be obvious to their agents that they would be the starting back. We weren't the Pats getting a deal for a one year rental on Moss.

Personally, I thought the Jones move was probably worth it at the time and I'd submit a more simple proposal of Jones + Kendall myself. That should have resulted in at least as potent a running game as '06. Duckett would still have been a nice addition for near the goal, but he's probably a little fat and lazy for this FO.

[CoachTsurfing]

Trade Jones for what? A 5th rounder? Even if we took McFadden, we're better off keeping Jones. He's $5M on the cap to keep, $9M on the cap to cut/trade before June 1st (read: pre-draft), and $6M on the '08 cap + $3M on the '09 cap to cut/trade after June 1st.

There is no way Thomas Jones is getting cut or traded this year. In any scenario, it's cheaper to keep him & we won't get near the 3rd-round value we gave up for him anyway.

I wonder if it's dawning upon Mangini that a RB with a name does not a running game make. Put a solid line out there with some less-obvious play calling & THEN judge the talent (or lack of) that you've got at the position.

well, then we shouldn't even be considering moving jones then or drafting mcfadden. Unless it's to trade with someone else. good leg work spermy.

[Sperm Edwards]

My problem with your theory is in bold. I know that you realize it's an oversimplification, but my problem is that your legion of minions actually believe that we'd be better off with a 62 year old Clark Gaines and a passable OG than Jones with Clarke. I'm sure the FO didn't expect to be 4-12 and there was good reason to go after a decent back. I think they appreciate Jones work ethic and the fact that his mouth isn't so big. Can't say that about Davenport or Duckett.

Another problem with your simplifications is that if we got Duckett/Davenport here they'd have been expecting more $$ too because it would be obvious to their agents that they would be the starting back. We weren't the Pats getting a deal for a one year rental on Moss.

Personally, I thought the Jones move was probably worth it at the time and I'd submit a more simple proposal of Jones + Kendall myself. That should have resulted in at least as potent a running game as '06. Duckett would still have been a nice addition for near the goal, but he's probably a little fat and lazy for this FO.

The flip-side is that I do not accept that every RB option other than drafting one in the first round or over-paying for Thomas Jones is a recipe for disaster far worse than we got.

I'm sure Jones' gymrattitude was no small factor in Mangini desiring this very player, since he clearly kicks everyone's ass all summer long (and then through the season). Too much so IMO, and it may make finding FA's increasingly difficult. I mean there has to be some kind of middle-ground between Club Edwards and a Mangini/Groh-style boot camp.

And I have a legion of minions? Kewl.

[#27TheDominator]

The flip-side is that I do not accept that every RB option other than drafting one in the first round or over-paying for Thomas Jones is a recipe for disaster far worse than we got.

I'm sure Jones' gymrattitude was no small factor in Mangini desiring this very player, since he clearly kicks everyone's ass all summer long (and then through the season). Too much so IMO, and it may make finding FA's increasingly difficult. I mean there has to be some kind of middle-ground between Club Edwards and a Mangini/Groh-style boot camp.

And I have a legion of minions? Kewl.

Agreed. I thought you'd like knowing you have a league of minions.

[Favorite_Toon]

You are saying that we cant gamble on a guy like mcfadden? I mean come on how many years do we need to struggle on offense to admit we need something changed? The d since the bye week was on eof the best in the Nfl.. they would be much better if we had a better offense and didnt have to be on the field for that long...

A guy like mcfadden is stud.. we need to draft playmakers.. there are several running backs coming out this year and we need to draft one of them... a wide out and upgradse the o-line via free agency..

Dbrick was a big mistake and I knew it then... wer passed on cutler for dbrick? seems foolish now and it was then.. Stop with all the crap that how we need to upgrade the d line and some linebackers.. we need offense!! A better QB... Playmaker reciever a better tightend (forsure) that actually stretch the field.. Stud running back we can cal our own..not leon washington special team expert or thomas jones who is old and doesnt break long runs even with a good o-line.. hes a pounder..

I wil be at the draft along with 50 other jets fans in my crew...and we all be screaming for some offense..

Now if you dont agree with this thats fine but obviously you didnt watch much jet games if you didnt..

STOP TRYING TO SOUND SMART BY TALKING ABOUT POSITIONS OTHER THEN RECIEVER QB RUNNING BACK.. BY TRYONG TO SAY THING SLIKE WE CAN USE A BETTER LINEBACKER AND DRAFT A O TACKLE OR GUARD... WE NEED PLAYMAKERS!! AND WE NEED TO STOP WITH THIS CHARACTER THING.. WE DONT WIN AND WE ARE GETTING ABUSED BY THE PATRIOTS WHILE THEY ARE TADING FOR GUYS LIKE MOSS... WE WERE SLEEPING WHILE THAT DEAL WAS GOING DOWN..

[Matt39]

You are saying that we cant gamble on a guy like mcfadden? I mean come on how many years do we need to struggle on offense to admit we need something changed? The d since the bye week was on eof the best in the Nfl.. they would be much better if we had a better offense and didnt have to be on the field for that long...

A guy like mcfadden is stud.. we need to draft playmakers.. there are several running backs coming out this year and we need to draft one of them... a wide out and upgradse the o-line via free agency..

Dbrick was a big mistake and I knew it then... wer passed on cutler for dbrick? seems foolish now and it was then.. Stop with all the crap that how we need to upgrade the d line and some linebackers.. we need offense!! A better QB... Playmaker reciever a better tightend (forsure) that actually stretch the field.. Stud running back we can cal our own..not leon washington special team expert or thomas jones who is old and doesnt break long runs even with a good o-line.. hes a pounder..

I wil be at the draft along with 50 other jets fans in my crew...and we all be screaming for some offense..

Now if you dont agree with this thats fine but obviously you didnt watch much jet games if you didnt..

STOP TRYING TO SOUND SMART BY TALKING ABOUT POSITIONS OTHER THEN RECIEVER QB RUNNING BACK.. BY TRYONG TO SAY THING SLIKE WE CAN USE A BETTER LINEBACKER AND DRAFT A O TACKLE OR GUARD... WE NEED PLAYMAKERS!! AND WE NEED TO STOP WITH THIS CHARACTER THING.. WE DONT WIN AND WE ARE GETTING ABUSED BY THE PATRIOTS WHILE THEY ARE TADING FOR GUYS LIKE MOSS... WE WERE SLEEPING WHILE THAT DEAL WAS GOING DOWN..

Cutler's been just as dissapointing as Birck has.

[Sperm Edwards]

You are saying that we cant gamble on a guy like mcfadden? I mean come on how many years do we need to struggle on offense to admit we need something changed? The d since the bye week was on eof the best in the Nfl.. they would be much better if we had a better offense and didnt have to be on the field for that long...

A guy like mcfadden is stud.. we need to draft playmakers.. there are several running backs coming out this year and we need to draft one of them... a wide out and upgradse the o-line via free agency..

Dbrick was a big mistake and I knew it then... wer passed on cutler for dbrick? seems foolish now and it was then.. Stop with all the crap that how we need to upgrade the d line and some linebackers.. we need offense!! A better QB... Playmaker reciever a better tightend (forsure) that actually stretch the field.. Stud running back we can cal our own..not leon washington special team expert or thomas jones who is old and doesnt break long runs even with a good o-line.. hes a pounder..

I wil be at the draft along with 50 other jets fans in my crew...and we all be screaming for some offense..

Now if you dont agree with this thats fine but obviously you didnt watch much jet games if you didnt..

STOP TRYING TO SOUND SMART BY TALKING ABOUT POSITIONS OTHER THEN RECIEVER QB RUNNING BACK.. BY TRYONG TO SAY THING SLIKE WE CAN USE A BETTER LINEBACKER AND DRAFT A O TACKLE OR GUARD... WE NEED PLAYMAKERS!! AND WE NEED TO STOP WITH THIS CHARACTER THING.. WE DONT WIN AND WE ARE GETTING ABUSED BY THE PATRIOTS WHILE THEY ARE TADING FOR GUYS LIKE MOSS... WE WERE SLEEPING WHILE THAT DEAL WAS GOING DOWN..

Moss specifically wanted to play for the Patriots. It was with that team, and only that team, that he was willing to redo his deal. NE was also MUCH more desperate than we were in terms of WR talent after the '06 season ended.

RB's, QB's and WR's who have no one to block them will do crappy.

Opposing RB's whose OL's can push our DLmen (and LB'ers) around like little children will continue to run all day on us with impunity.

When opposing QB's have all day to throw the ball because we have no pass rush, we will continue to see the likes of Kyle Boller have efficient days against us & continue to convert 3rd downs.

Why am I bothering?

Yeah, you're right. None of us understand. Let's go nuts & only draft or acquire fantasy football positions & continue to do so until we can find a group of them that can perform with no offensive line & a defense that can stop the run or pressure the QB by clicking the heels of your ruby slippers 3x.

...and welcome to JetNation

[serphnx]

Moss specifically wanted to play for the Patriots. It was with that team, and only that team, that he was willing to redo his deal. NE was also MUCH more desperate than we were in terms of WR talent after the '06 season ended.

RB's, QB's and WR's who have no one to block them will do crappy.

Opposing RB's whose OL's can push our DLmen (and LB'ers) around like little children will continue to run all day on us with impunity.

When opposing QB's have all day to throw the ball because we have no pass rush, we will continue to see the likes of Kyle Boller have efficient days against us & continue to convert 3rd downs.

Why am I bothering?

Yeah, you're right. None of us understand. Let's go nuts & only draft or acquire fantasy football positions & continue to do so until we can find a group of them that can perform with no offensive line & a defense that can stop the run or pressure the QB by clicking the heels of your ruby slippers 3x.

...and welcome to JetNation

Sperm, you can draft a skill position player with your first round pick, and then draft OL later on, you know that right? Centers and Guards are never taken early 1st round, and not too many succesful tackles are either. There is also FA. But a top first round pick should definitely be used on a skill position player unless you see someone that has zero weaknesses and is a tackle usually. We've already debated our views on Brick so no point in going over that again, but I think we can all pretty much agree there is no Orlando Pace this year.

This is why I don't understand this OL complaint. My issue with Mangini started even 2 years ago, because I thought our guards and RT were crap. I could not fathom why we didn't atleast take a flyer on MJ Gilles. Then last year again we ignore the Gs and RT. 3rd round is high enough to get a good RT, and 5th round is fine to get a G. That still leaves you with 2 picks to use somewhere else on day 1 alone. And again, as I said, there is also FA as a possibility.

[KRhodes25]

whats the argument? He is single handily the best player in this draft this year, more then likely he will be selected before we pick and if he isn't he will be on the Jets, Mangini knows its a weak draft, he will be the BAP, and will be selected.

[drago]

i like tying up one sixth of the entire cap on two running backs. I love Jets fans.

[#27TheDominator]

Sperm, you can draft a skill position player with your first round pick, and then draft OL later on, you know that right? Centers and Guards are never taken early 1st round, and not too many succesful tackles are either. There is also FA. But a top first round pick should definitely be used on a skill position player unless you see someone that has zero weaknesses and is a tackle usually. We've already debated our views on Brick so no point in going over that again, but I think we can all pretty much agree there is no Orlando Pace this year.

This is why I don't understand this OL complaint. My issue with Mangini started even 2 years ago, because I thought our guards and RT were crap. I could not fathom why we didn't atleast take a flyer on MJ Gilles. Then last year again we ignore the Gs and RT. 3rd round is high enough to get a good RT, and 5th round is fine to get a G. That still leaves you with 2 picks to use somewhere else on day 1 alone. And again, as I said, there is also FA as a possibility.

I call bull****. You can find a C G in the 5th and RT in the 3rd, but it's far from automatic. Saying that you can just draft a good line in the late rounds is ridiculous. If any of those guys were sure starters they'd be long gone by the 5th. FA sure, but the late rounds are not where you find immediate starters on the line, or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you like drafting punters.

I will agree that we don't need to draft OL with the 6th pick and we need some playmakers, but IMO a pass rusher would make as much impact as anybody else.

[serphnx]

I call bull****. You can find a C G in the 5th and RT in the 3rd, but it's far from automatic. Saying that you can just draft a good line in the late rounds is ridiculous. If any of those guys were sure starters they'd be long gone by the 5th. FA sure, but the late rounds are not where you find immediate starters on the line, or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you like drafting punters.

I will agree that we don't need to draft OL with the 6th pick and we need some playmakers, but IMO a pass rusher would make as much impact as anybody else.

If you're actually good at evaluating talent, then it is not ridiculous at all. The Cowboys teams of the 90s were all late round picks iirc, and they were honestly probably the best OL of all time. I'm not sure that there are early picks really on the Broncos line either, and they've been great for recent memory.

Guards just do not go in the top 10 of a draft, it's just ridiculous. We're talking about the #6 overall pick here, and everyone is acting like now suddenly that's the only pick we have in the entire draft. When it's about a QB or RB everyone says we shouldn't draft early because they will be busts, and too much salary cap is tied up on them, but somehow when you draft a DL or OL early they are guaranteed success? Brick and also Gallery are wastes of money thus far, as was DRob, all top 5 picks, all play the line. The draft does not guarantee you a star in any position whatsoever.

[#27TheDominator]

If you're actually good at evaluating talent, then it is not ridiculous at all. The Cowboys teams of the 90s were all late round picks iirc, and they were honestly probably the best OL of all time. I'm not sure that there are early picks really on the Broncos line either, and they've been great for recent memory.

Guards just do not go in the top 10 of a draft, it's just ridiculous. We're talking about the #6 overall pick here, and everyone is acting like now suddenly that's the only pick we have in the entire draft. When it's about a QB or RB everyone says we shouldn't draft early because they will be busts, and too much salary cap is tied up on them, but somehow when you draft a DL or OL early they are guaranteed success? Brick and also Gallery are wastes of money thus far, as was DRob, all top 5 picks, all play the line. The draft does not guarantee you a star in any position whatsoever.

I agree 100% that taking a guard at 6 is ridiculous. Not sure about the full Cowboys line, but I know Allen went in the 1st or 2nd, a couple of guys came from the USFL (not going to be a high draft pick) and I'm pretty sure none of the guys went to a real D-1 school. Pretty sure the Broncos drafted at least one lineman in the first during their crappy RB for 1,000 + extravaganza.

You can get good linemen late? Sure. OTOH, you can also get great skill position players late off the top of my head RB- Priest Holmes, Willie Parker. WR? Colston, Chrebet, Rod Smith. QB? Brady. As you say, there are no guarantees. IMO, the higher the pick the more important to go for BAP. I just don't think you can say pick a C or G in the 5th or later, T 3rd or later, DLineman in X round. You just take the best guy that fits what you are trying to do.

A pretty good example was the Blair Thomas year. My dad wanted Seau something fierce and was irate the Jets were even talking about Thomas. We couldn't stand Thomas either-IMO he wasn't that good in college. Other knowledgable football guys in the neighborhood wanted Keith McCants and some true idiots wanted run & shoot Andre Ware. Blair Thomas sucked, but McCants and Ware were basically useless as pros.

[drago]

part of my desire to take a linebacker, pass rusher, or o-linemen early in the draft (not necessarily 6th, i'd like us to trade back, but it doesn't seem anyone would really want to slide up) is that we can move those guys around the field a bit more.

serphnx mentions gallery, and he's right he has been a bust, and a huge dissapointment. They good side of that problem is, at least he still plays, and he has preformed pretty well at the guard position. Expensive guard, but at least he plays.

You take an RB that high, and he sucks...well there is nothing you can do but play him, bench him, cut or trade him.

It's just risk reward, i don't like the risk of the top picks so i would prefer going with the safter pick. JMO

[bobbyjet69]

I agree 100% that taking a guard at 6 is ridiculous. Not sure about the full Cowboys line, but I know Allen went in the 1st or 2nd, a couple of guys came from the USFL (not going to be a high draft pick) and I'm pretty sure none of the guys went to a real D-1 school. Pretty sure the Broncos drafted at least one lineman in the first during their crappy RB for 1,000 + extravaganza.

You can get good linemen late? Sure. OTOH, you can also get great skill position players late off the top of my head RB- Priest Holmes, Willie Parker. WR? Colston, Chrebet, Rod Smith. QB? Brady. As you say, there are no guarantees. IMO, the higher the pick the more important to go for BAP. I just don't think you can say pick a C or G in the 5th or later, T 3rd or later, DLineman in X round. You just take the best guy that fits what you are trying to do.

A pretty good example was the Blair Thomas year. My dad wanted Seau something fierce and was irate the Jets were even talking about Thomas. We couldn't stand Thomas either-IMO he wasn't that good in college. Other knowledgable football guys in the neighborhood wanted Keith McCants and some true idiots wanted run & shoot Andre Ware. Blair Thomas sucked, but McCants and Ware were basically useless as pros.

I loved Blair Thomas coming out (plus I'm a huge Penn State fan) in the senior bowl he had 173yds on 11 carries! could cut on a dime! When he came to the NFL and said it's a much faster game and hard for him to adjust I knew it was over!

I think McFadden is gonna be the same, he runs alot out of the option as a QB (like Brad Smith).

[#27TheDominator]

I loved Blair Thomas coming out (plus I'm a huge Penn State fan) in the senior bowl he had 173yds on 11 carries! could cut on a dime! When he came to the NFL and said it's a much faster game and hard for him to adjust I knew it was over!

I think McFadden is gonna be the same, he runs alot out of the option as a QB (like Brad Smith).

I just wish Seau would re-retire already so I don't have to hear my Dad anymore.

[bobbyjet69]

I just wish Seau would re-retire already so I don't have to hear my Dad anymore.

LOL!!