Eric Mangini and Mike Tannebaum may have dug their grave

[BwanaZulia]

"...and for my second post, I will bash the other players; then instigate a Chad vs. Clemens debate".

Welcome to Jet Nation!

BZ

[Thor99]

I played football for 8 years

Did you score 4 touchdowns in one game?

Tangini may have dug their own graves, but at least they're going down swinging. It would be nice, for a change, if some high dollar free agents were worth it.

[bobbyjet69]

Did you score 4 touchdowns in one game?

Tangini may have dug their own graves, but at least they're going down swinging. It would be nice, for a change, if some high dollar free agents were worth it.

:rl::rl::rl:

[Barton]

I have been a Jets fan for over 15 years now, and I have never seen the Jets have a more active offseason....

That being said, was this what we have all been waiting for?

I don't think we are going to see Woody Johnson spend big money for a looong time...

Tangini broke the bank and came up with Alan Faneca, Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, and Damien Woody.... I don't know if I would put my eggs in that basket...

I support the Alan Faneca signing 100% as I believe he is a premium at a position of needs... Everything else gets a big thumbs down though...

Kris Jenkins is not worth the money he is getting let alone the 3rd and 5th round picks we gave up for him. The guy was reportedly weighed in at 390 last year... Think Corey Simon

Calvin Pace's contract is absoloutley ridiculous.. The guy has had one solid season... He looks like a BT clone.. HUGE risk

Damien Woody??? Wasn't this guy a HUGE bust in Detroit? I thought he ate himself out of the leauge or something? How is it that we actually gave this guy a bigger contract than Detorit gave him in the prime of his career??

You're boring.

[jets rooter]

jets offensive line is 100% better then what they had last year.don't forget that the jets still have six draft choices.for sure they will draft a r.t. in the second round.so lets not be so quick to condemn tanny and the front office.as far as woody is concerned.he was playing hurt most of the season.you can bet that he will show up this year at r.g. and will be great.playing with detroit is no incentive to win.

[Sperm Edwards]

jets offensive line is 100% better then what they had last year.don't forget that the jets still have six draft choices.for sure they will draft a r.t. in the second round.so lets not be so quick to condemn tanny and the front office.as far as woody is concerned.he was playing hurt most of the season.you can bet that he will show up this year at r.g. and will be great.playing with detroit is no incentive to win.

For sure?

I'd expect they have certain players they'd like to draft & take the one they most want on the team from who is available.

But one would think the idea behind drafting 2 OLmen with first round picks and signing 2 more to big, big money means they shouldn't need to burn a 1st/2nd round pick on their 5th man until it's shown that their current 5th man is noticeably holding back the O-line (and in doing so, the offense as a whole).

You go chasing a position and you end up with Anthony Schlegel.

[drago]

You go chasing a position and you end up with Anthony Schlegel.

are you saying you shouldn't draft Ohio State players. Damn SEC fans.

It would be a really strange situation for the Jets to be forced into taking a linemen (jake long) at number 6. Even if all the top guys on their charts are gone, they just can't pull that trigger.

I wouldn't call it a reach, but it would suck to be forced to pick one of the many CB's available. It just seems that their talent is so similar that you don't want to be the first to choose.

At this point, i'm really expecting us to take a CB, if we stay at six.

[Sperm Edwards]

are you saying you shouldn't draft Ohio State players. Damn SEC fans.

It would be a really strange situation for the Jets to be forced into taking a linemen (jake long) at number 6. Even if all the top guys on their charts are gone, they just can't pull that trigger.

I wouldn't call it a reach, but it would suck to be forced to pick one of the many CB's available. It just seems that their talent is so similar that you don't want to be the first to choose.

At this point, i'm really expecting us to take a CB, if we stay at six.

No, I'm saying don't target a position in a certain round. Jets looked like they were targeting LB in the early 3rd. As the story goes, they were drafting Chris Gocong but saw an opportunity to drop down 5 slots first. Well, Gocong got taken by the very team they moved down with (Philly) and they reached tremendously for the boar hunter. I cannot imagine Anthony Schlegel was truly the best prospect on their list at #76. If he was, they should never admit it publicly.

[jack48]

Actually, Pace's contract is not unreal. In actuality, it's a 1 yr "prove it or lose it" deal. He performs, they give him his roster bonus. He doesn't, and he goes.

Jenkins? 9M guaranteed? I can't complain.

I have never seen Pace play a down. I would venture to guess that a lot of posters here choose not to avail themselves of Arizona Cardinal games. But I have to believe that Tangini has watched hours of film on this guy and talked to a large number of reliable people about him. I also notice that Parcells was throwing similar money at him. So I am taking this one on faith. The guy can probably play, and they feel that in his second full year as a 3-4 LB, he is capable of big things. There. I believe. I have no opinion on him. I just believe. And I would like people who have never seen him play and have given an opinion on him to fess up. Come on now. You should not have an opinion on him, should you? You have your fingers crossed just like me. How can you be negative OR positive when you have not seen him play?

[drago]

No, I'm saying don't target a position in a certain round. Jets looked like they were targeting LB in the early 3rd. As the story goes, they were drafting Chris Gocong but saw an opportunity to drop down 5 slots first. Well, Gocong got taken by the very team they moved down with (Philly) and they reached tremendously for the boar hunter. I cannot imagine Anthony Schlegel was truly the best prospect on their list at #76. If he was, they should never admit it publicly.

I was being sarcastic.

I'm just worried (well, not too worried) that if gholston, DMC, Chris Long, and whomever else the Jets see as worth the top 5, we may end up drafting an o-linemen (J. Long).

[Jedi_Jet1121]

Did you score 4 touchdowns in one game?

Tangini may have dug their own graves, but at least they're going down swinging. It would be nice, for a change, if some high dollar free agents were worth it.

At least i SCORED in my life. But anyways Al Bundy is the man

[drago]

At least i SCORED in my life. But anyways Al Bundy is the man

you're bragging about scoring with Thor???? You ever watch dateline? Yeah, it's safe to say Thor has scored.

[Bugg]

[Gibbon]

No, I'm saying don't target a position in a certain round. Jets looked like they were targeting LB in the early 3rd. As the story goes, they were drafting Chris Gocong but saw an opportunity to drop down 5 slots first. Well, Gocong got taken by the very team they moved down with (Philly) and they reached tremendously for the boar hunter. I cannot imagine Anthony Schlegel was truly the best prospect on their list at #76. If he was, they should never admit it publicly.

I think the Tangini's first draft and off season reflected their belief in building a "foundation" for the Jets into the near future.

1st round they picked O line. Conventional wisdom says this is how you build a team and so far those two picks -- Mangold has certainly been a gem.

2nd round -- they picked what was probably the best QB prospect available. Chad, injured, aging, they knew they would need a solid QB in place and have reason to believe that Clemens can be that player.

3rd round -- Mangini is going to install a 3-4 system, but knows he has 4-3 LBs. He feels he has to take a prototypical 3-4 LB. Gocong looked like that at OLB, but the Jets apparantly outsmarted themselves and lost him. So third round, you're already thinking 3-4 LB. You have to make your decision under some time pressure, you take perhaps the best 3-4 ILB prospect available (keep in mind I'm talking here about a limited group of players -- 3-4 ILB prospects). Was it too soon to take a 3-4 ILB prospect -- perhaps. Was Schlegel a bad pick or just a bad pick at that spot?

Late in the third you pick a big safety for 3-4 run support -- was he the best prospect at the end of the 3rd round? Maybe for what Mangini wanted.

4th -- draft an RB prospect -- the team needs an RB but keep in mind you're building long term and an RB in the draft, long term, is not enough of a priority to pick one sooner. The team had 2 veteran back ups plus the rookie so if worst came to worst you had a couple of servicable backs.

5th -- Brad Smith -- a hybrid QB/ WR great athlete project. A perfect 5th round pick. A toy you can play with, maybe find greatness in, and he doesnt cost much.

I get fuzzy after that . . .

Anyway the season starts and low and behold you're winning more games than you planned on. You had gone into the season planning on starting your vets, but working you're new guys in as the season went on. Its year one of rebuilding after all. But now you have a shot at the playoffs. You have to focus on winning and not building or getting guys experience. You go 10-6 get the wild card and everyone is calling you a genius.

So, next off season instead of continuing to rebuild you think -- tweak what already works. So, you trade away most of your draft for two very good prospects (both guys are good picks) in the FA wise you just look to shore up some holes. You abandon the long term mentality and think short term improvements mean a playoff return and hopefully more.

Blam! 3-13. So what do you do? You cant wait to rebuild through the draft so you advocate massive free agent spending cause now your job is on the line. You spend unprecedented amounts of money and hope to draft the players of the future with your high positioned picks.

In other words you start rebuilding again in year 3 and hope your FA's buy you enough time and job security to see it through.

[Gibbon]

No, I'm saying don't target a position in a certain round. Jets looked like they were targeting LB in the early 3rd. As the story goes, they were drafting Chris Gocong but saw an opportunity to drop down 5 slots first. Well, Gocong got taken by the very team they moved down with (Philly) and they reached tremendously for the boar hunter. I cannot imagine Anthony Schlegel was truly the best prospect on their list at #76. If he was, they should never admit it publicly.

I think the Tangini's first draft and off season reflected their belief in building a "foundation" for the Jets into the near future.

1st round they picked O line. Conventional wisdom says this is how you build a team and so far those two picks -- Mangold has certainly been a gem.

2nd round -- they picked what was probably the best QB prospect available. Chad, injured, aging, they knew they would need a solid QB in place and have reason to believe that Clemens can be that player.

3rd round -- Mangini is going to install a 3-4 system, but knows he has 4-3 LBs. He feels he has to take a prototypical 3-4 LB. Gocong looked like that at OLB, but the Jets apparantly outsmarted themselves and lost him. So third round, you're already thinking 3-4 LB. You have to make your decision under some time pressure, you take perhaps the best 3-4 ILB prospect available (keep in mind I'm talking here about a limited group of players -- 3-4 ILB prospects). Was it too soon to take a 3-4 ILB prospect -- perhaps. Was Schlegel a bad pick or just a bad pick at that spot?

Late in the third you pick a big safety for 3-4 run support -- was he the best prospect at the end of the 3rd round? Maybe for what Mangini wanted.

4th -- draft an RB prospect -- the team needs an RB but keep in mind you're building long term and an RB in the draft, long term, is not enough of a priority to pick one sooner. The team had 2 veteran back ups plus the rookie so if worst came to worst you had a couple of servicable backs.

5th -- Brad Smith -- a hybrid QB/ WR great athlete project. A perfect 5th round pick. A toy you can play with, maybe find greatness in, and he doesnt cost much.

I get fuzzy after that . . .

Anyway the season starts and low and behold you're winning more games than you planned on. You had gone into the season planning on starting your vets, but working you're new guys in as the season went on. Its year one of rebuilding after all. But now you have a shot at the playoffs. You have to focus on winning and not building or getting guys experience. You go 10-6 get the wild card and everyone is calling you a genius.

So, next off season instead of continuing to rebuild you think -- tweak what already works. So, you trade away most of your draft for two very good prospects (both guys are good picks) in the FA wise you just look to shore up some holes. You abandon the long term mentality and think short term improvements mean a playoff return and hopefully more.

Blam! 3-13. So what do you do? You cant wait to rebuild through the draft so you advocate massive free agent spending cause now your job is on the line. You spend unprecedented amounts of money and hope to draft the players of the future with your high positioned picks.

In other words you start rebuilding again in year 3 and hope your FA's buy you enough time and job security to see it through.

[Sperm Edwards]

I think the Tangini's first draft and off season reflected their belief in building a "foundation" for the Jets into the near future.

1st round they picked O line. Conventional wisdom says this is how you build a team and so far those two picks -- Mangold has certainly been a gem.

2nd round -- they picked what was probably the best QB prospect available. Chad, injured, aging, they knew they would need a solid QB in place and have reason to believe that Clemens can be that player.

3rd round -- Mangini is going to install a 3-4 system, but knows he has 4-3 LBs. He feels he has to take a prototypical 3-4 LB. Gocong looked like that at OLB, but the Jets apparantly outsmarted themselves and lost him. So third round, you're already thinking 3-4 LB. You have to make your decision under some time pressure, you take perhaps the best 3-4 ILB prospect available (keep in mind I'm talking here about a limited group of players -- 3-4 ILB prospects). Was it too soon to take a 3-4 ILB prospect -- perhaps. Was Schlegel a bad pick or just a bad pick at that spot?

Late in the third you pick a big safety for 3-4 run support -- was he the best prospect at the end of the 3rd round? Maybe for what Mangini wanted.

4th -- draft an RB prospect -- the team needs an RB but keep in mind you're building long term and an RB in the draft, long term, is not enough of a priority to pick one sooner. The team had 2 veteran back ups plus the rookie so if worst came to worst you had a couple of servicable backs.

5th -- Brad Smith -- a hybrid QB/ WR great athlete project. A perfect 5th round pick. A toy you can play with, maybe find greatness in, and he doesnt cost much.

I get fuzzy after that . . .

Anyway the season starts and low and behold you're winning more games than you planned on. You had gone into the season planning on starting your vets, but working you're new guys in as the season went on. Its year one of rebuilding after all. But now you have a shot at the playoffs. You have to focus on winning and not building or getting guys experience. You go 10-6 get the wild card and everyone is calling you a genius.

So, next off season instead of continuing to rebuild you think -- tweak what already works. So, you trade away most of your draft for two very good prospects (both guys are good picks) in the FA wise you just look to shore up some holes. You abandon the long term mentality and think short term improvements mean a playoff return and hopefully more.

Blam! 3-13. So what do you do? You cant wait to rebuild through the draft so you advocate massive free agent spending cause now your job is on the line. You spend unprecedented amounts of money and hope to draft the players of the future with your high positioned picks.

In other words you start rebuilding again in year 3 and hope your FA's buy you enough time and job security to see it through.

We won 4 games, not 3. Big difference. 3 wins there's no point in getting pricey FA's. But 4? C'mon.

And Brad Smith wasn't a 5th round pick, though he should have been. He was a high 4th round pick with a Round-1-grade NT was on the board.

I'll give them this year. They've done some things I like & some things I clearly didn't.

But their 2006 draft was sucky so far. Zero sure-starters with their non-first-rounders is nothing to brag about.

[Sperm Edwards]

I think the Tangini's first draft and off season reflected their belief in building a "foundation" for the Jets into the near future.

1st round they picked O line. Conventional wisdom says this is how you build a team and so far those two picks -- Mangold has certainly been a gem.

2nd round -- they picked what was probably the best QB prospect available. Chad, injured, aging, they knew they would need a solid QB in place and have reason to believe that Clemens can be that player.

3rd round -- Mangini is going to install a 3-4 system, but knows he has 4-3 LBs. He feels he has to take a prototypical 3-4 LB. Gocong looked like that at OLB, but the Jets apparantly outsmarted themselves and lost him. So third round, you're already thinking 3-4 LB. You have to make your decision under some time pressure, you take perhaps the best 3-4 ILB prospect available (keep in mind I'm talking here about a limited group of players -- 3-4 ILB prospects). Was it too soon to take a 3-4 ILB prospect -- perhaps. Was Schlegel a bad pick or just a bad pick at that spot?

Late in the third you pick a big safety for 3-4 run support -- was he the best prospect at the end of the 3rd round? Maybe for what Mangini wanted.

4th -- draft an RB prospect -- the team needs an RB but keep in mind you're building long term and an RB in the draft, long term, is not enough of a priority to pick one sooner. The team had 2 veteran back ups plus the rookie so if worst came to worst you had a couple of servicable backs.

5th -- Brad Smith -- a hybrid QB/ WR great athlete project. A perfect 5th round pick. A toy you can play with, maybe find greatness in, and he doesnt cost much.

I get fuzzy after that . . .

Anyway the season starts and low and behold you're winning more games than you planned on. You had gone into the season planning on starting your vets, but working you're new guys in as the season went on. Its year one of rebuilding after all. But now you have a shot at the playoffs. You have to focus on winning and not building or getting guys experience. You go 10-6 get the wild card and everyone is calling you a genius.

So, next off season instead of continuing to rebuild you think -- tweak what already works. So, you trade away most of your draft for two very good prospects (both guys are good picks) in the FA wise you just look to shore up some holes. You abandon the long term mentality and think short term improvements mean a playoff return and hopefully more.

Blam! 3-13. So what do you do? You cant wait to rebuild through the draft so you advocate massive free agent spending cause now your job is on the line. You spend unprecedented amounts of money and hope to draft the players of the future with your high positioned picks.

In other words you start rebuilding again in year 3 and hope your FA's buy you enough time and job security to see it through.

We won 4 games, not 3. Big difference. 3 wins there's no point in getting pricey FA's. But 4? C'mon.

And Brad Smith wasn't a 5th round pick, though he should have been. He was a high 4th round pick with a Round-1-grade NT was on the board.

I'll give them this year. They've done some things I like & some things I clearly didn't.

But their 2006 draft was sucky so far. Zero sure-starters with their non-first-rounders is nothing to brag about.

[Gibbon]

We won 4 games, not 3. Big difference. 3 wins there's no point in getting pricey FA's. But 4? C'mon.

And Brad Smith wasn't a 5th round pick, though he should have been. He was a high 4th round pick with a Round-1-grade NT was on the board.

I'll give them this year. They've done some things I like & some things I clearly didn't.

But their 2006 draft was sucky so far. Zero sure-starters with their non-first-rounders is nothing to brag about.

Whoops! My fact checker is on vacation.

My point regarding the 06 draft was if the team had been less successful in the 06 season we might have seen more of some of those picks -- Clemens, Schlegel, E. Smith etc -- than we did because the staff would feel less pressure to play the veterans the whole game. The success of 06 altered their thinking about the players they picked in 06 and what the team needed to get to the level of a team that could not just get to the playoffs, but win play off games.

[Gibbon]

We won 4 games, not 3. Big difference. 3 wins there's no point in getting pricey FA's. But 4? C'mon.

And Brad Smith wasn't a 5th round pick, though he should have been. He was a high 4th round pick with a Round-1-grade NT was on the board.

I'll give them this year. They've done some things I like & some things I clearly didn't.

But their 2006 draft was sucky so far. Zero sure-starters with their non-first-rounders is nothing to brag about.

Whoops! My fact checker is on vacation.

My point regarding the 06 draft was if the team had been less successful in the 06 season we might have seen more of some of those picks -- Clemens, Schlegel, E. Smith etc -- than we did because the staff would feel less pressure to play the veterans the whole game. The success of 06 altered their thinking about the players they picked in 06 and what the team needed to get to the level of a team that could not just get to the playoffs, but win play off games.

[Sperm Edwards]

Whoops! My fact checker is on vacation.

My point regarding the 06 draft was if the team had been less successful in the 06 season we might have seen more of some of those picks -- Clemens, Schlegel, E. Smith etc -- than we did because the staff would feel less pressure to play the veterans the whole game. The success of 06 altered their thinking about the players they picked in 06 and what the team needed to get to the level of a team that could not just get to the playoffs, but win play off games.

We were less successful in 2007, and what we saw of most of those players was depressing at times.

Clemens sucked (though to be fair he didn't have much to work with). Let's see what happens with him taking the pre-season starter snaps (important for a young QB). Showed flashes yes, but a team needs more than flashes from its QB. Because with his flashes of good play, he had more than his share of flashes of sucking.

Schlegel was cut & then couldn't even keep a starting job handed to him by the Bengals -- the BENGALS.

Eric Smith lost out to the great Abram Elam (who I like, but clearly the team wanted someone else)

Brad Smith is awful when he's not on special teams. No one falls for trick plays with him anymore.

Leon was a fine pick. If he's never more than a 3rd-down back/KO returner, if he does that with the same success he's had from 2006-2007, I'm still happy with his selection in the late 4th round.

Jason Pociask, Drew Coleman, Titus Adams...yeah, they were all late-round picks. But none of them are clearly even decent backup/depth players.

[Sperm Edwards]

Whoops! My fact checker is on vacation.

My point regarding the 06 draft was if the team had been less successful in the 06 season we might have seen more of some of those picks -- Clemens, Schlegel, E. Smith etc -- than we did because the staff would feel less pressure to play the veterans the whole game. The success of 06 altered their thinking about the players they picked in 06 and what the team needed to get to the level of a team that could not just get to the playoffs, but win play off games.

We were less successful in 2007, and what we saw of most of those players was depressing at times.

Clemens sucked (though to be fair he didn't have much to work with). Let's see what happens with him taking the pre-season starter snaps (important for a young QB). Showed flashes yes, but a team needs more than flashes from its QB. Because with his flashes of good play, he had more than his share of flashes of sucking.

Schlegel was cut & then couldn't even keep a starting job handed to him by the Bengals -- the BENGALS.

Eric Smith lost out to the great Abram Elam (who I like, but clearly the team wanted someone else)

Brad Smith is awful when he's not on special teams. No one falls for trick plays with him anymore.

Leon was a fine pick. If he's never more than a 3rd-down back/KO returner, if he does that with the same success he's had from 2006-2007, I'm still happy with his selection in the late 4th round.

Jason Pociask, Drew Coleman, Titus Adams...yeah, they were all late-round picks. But none of them are clearly even decent backup/depth players.

[Gibbon]

We were less successful in 2007, and what we saw of most of those players was depressing at times.

Clemens sucked (though to be fair he didn't have much to work with). Let's see what happens with him taking the pre-season starter snaps (important for a young QB). Showed flashes yes, but a team needs more than flashes from its QB. Because with his flashes of good play, he had more than his share of flashes of sucking.

Schlegel was cut & then couldn't even keep a starting job handed to him by the Bengals -- the BENGALS.

Eric Smith lost out to the great Abram Elam (who I like, but clearly the team wanted someone else)

Brad Smith is awful when he's not on special teams. No one falls for trick plays with him anymore.

Leon was a fine pick. If he's never more than a 3rd-down back/KO returner, if he does that with the same success he's had from 2006-2007, I'm still happy with his selection in the late 4th round.

Jason Pociask, Drew Coleman, Titus Adams...yeah, they were all late-round picks. But none of them are clearly even decent backup/depth players.

My theory may have some holes in it. But, some how I think in part, I'm not communicating it very well.

Another shot. Because of the Jets success in 06 many of their rookies saw little or no PT so for many 07 was really their rookie year -- this aplies to Clemens, Schlegel and E. Smith. Rookies frequently struggle. If the Jets had been less successful in 06 last year they would have been more experienced players and might have played better.

(BTW, Schlegel was injured against Buffalo and sat out the next game. In the mean time one of the starters returned from injury replacing him.)

[Gibbon]

We were less successful in 2007, and what we saw of most of those players was depressing at times.

Clemens sucked (though to be fair he didn't have much to work with). Let's see what happens with him taking the pre-season starter snaps (important for a young QB). Showed flashes yes, but a team needs more than flashes from its QB. Because with his flashes of good play, he had more than his share of flashes of sucking.

Schlegel was cut & then couldn't even keep a starting job handed to him by the Bengals -- the BENGALS.

Eric Smith lost out to the great Abram Elam (who I like, but clearly the team wanted someone else)

Brad Smith is awful when he's not on special teams. No one falls for trick plays with him anymore.

Leon was a fine pick. If he's never more than a 3rd-down back/KO returner, if he does that with the same success he's had from 2006-2007, I'm still happy with his selection in the late 4th round.

Jason Pociask, Drew Coleman, Titus Adams...yeah, they were all late-round picks. But none of them are clearly even decent backup/depth players.

My theory may have some holes in it. But, some how I think in part, I'm not communicating it very well.

Another shot. Because of the Jets success in 06 many of their rookies saw little or no PT so for many 07 was really their rookie year -- this aplies to Clemens, Schlegel and E. Smith. Rookies frequently struggle. If the Jets had been less successful in 06 last year they would have been more experienced players and might have played better.

(BTW, Schlegel was injured against Buffalo and sat out the next game. In the mean time one of the starters returned from injury replacing him.)

[Sperm Edwards]

My theory may have some holes in it. But, some how I think in part, I'm not communicating it very well.

Another shot. Because of the Jets success in 06 many of their rookies saw little or no PT so for many 07 was really their rookie year -- this aplies to Clemens, Schlegel and E. Smith. Rookies frequently struggle. If the Jets had been less successful in 06 last year they would have been more experienced players and might have played better.

(BTW, Schlegel was injured against Buffalo and sat out the next game. In the mean time one of the starters returned from injury replacing him.)

How can anyone not love Gibbon, who will not let go of his beloved Buckeye alumnus?

Love it.

I hear what you're saying. But the reality is that when given the opportunity (particularly when their respective teams were underperforming), they could not keep the starter job. Though I think Leon was given a raw deal going into 2007, I have no idea how much pain/fatigue he may have complained of on the sideline by the end of '06. Maybe none at all. And Clemens may surprise & be a really good QB. Cotchery didn't look like much for a few years & the assumption by most was that he just wasn't good enough, otherwise he would've been able to beat out JMac.

Still holding out hope. But our 3 picks of Schlegel-Smith-Smith will keep this from ever being an A+ draft. Too much more-heralded talent, at positions of need, was on the board.

Then again, one of those more heralded talents was Darnell Bing...

[Sperm Edwards]

My theory may have some holes in it. But, some how I think in part, I'm not communicating it very well.

Another shot. Because of the Jets success in 06 many of their rookies saw little or no PT so for many 07 was really their rookie year -- this aplies to Clemens, Schlegel and E. Smith. Rookies frequently struggle. If the Jets had been less successful in 06 last year they would have been more experienced players and might have played better.

(BTW, Schlegel was injured against Buffalo and sat out the next game. In the mean time one of the starters returned from injury replacing him.)

How can anyone not love Gibbon, who will not let go of his beloved Buckeye alumnus?

Love it.

I hear what you're saying. But the reality is that when given the opportunity (particularly when their respective teams were underperforming), they could not keep the starter job. Though I think Leon was given a raw deal going into 2007, I have no idea how much pain/fatigue he may have complained of on the sideline by the end of '06. Maybe none at all. And Clemens may surprise & be a really good QB. Cotchery didn't look like much for a few years & the assumption by most was that he just wasn't good enough, otherwise he would've been able to beat out JMac.

Still holding out hope. But our 3 picks of Schlegel-Smith-Smith will keep this from ever being an A+ draft. Too much more-heralded talent, at positions of need, was on the board.

Then again, one of those more heralded talents was Darnell Bing...

[DMaynard]

I have never seen Pace play a down. I would venture to guess that a lot of posters here choose not to avail themselves of Arizona Cardinal games. But I have to believe that Tangini has watched hours of film on this guy and talked to a large number of reliable people about him. I also notice that Parcells was throwing similar money at him. So I am taking this one on faith. The guy can probably play, and they feel that in his second full year as a 3-4 LB, he is capable of big things. There. I believe. I have no opinion on him. I just believe. And I would like people who have never seen him play and have given an opinion on him to fess up. Come on now. You should not have an opinion on him, should you? You have your fingers crossed just like me. How can you be negative OR positive when you have not seen him play?

OMG, that makes way too much sense.

You expect me to actually wait to see how he plays for us before rushing to judgement?True, I have never seen him play nor have I even heard of him before. But that is my point. How good can he be if I haven't heard of him? I surf the net like everyone else. I buy football magazines. I know I have a full time job and don't follow players around the league and have film on them like Tangini, but I just know it is too much money and this is a big mistake.

[DMaynard]

I have never seen Pace play a down. I would venture to guess that a lot of posters here choose not to avail themselves of Arizona Cardinal games. But I have to believe that Tangini has watched hours of film on this guy and talked to a large number of reliable people about him. I also notice that Parcells was throwing similar money at him. So I am taking this one on faith. The guy can probably play, and they feel that in his second full year as a 3-4 LB, he is capable of big things. There. I believe. I have no opinion on him. I just believe. And I would like people who have never seen him play and have given an opinion on him to fess up. Come on now. You should not have an opinion on him, should you? You have your fingers crossed just like me. How can you be negative OR positive when you have not seen him play?

OMG, that makes way too much sense.

You expect me to actually wait to see how he plays for us before rushing to judgement?True, I have never seen him play nor have I even heard of him before. But that is my point. How good can he be if I haven't heard of him? I surf the net like everyone else. I buy football magazines. I know I have a full time job and don't follow players around the league and have film on them like Tangini, but I just know it is too much money and this is a big mistake.

[Gibbon]

How can anyone not love Gibbon, who will not let go of his beloved Buckeye alumnus?

Love it.

I hear what you're saying. But the reality is that when given the opportunity (particularly when their respective teams were underperforming), they could not keep the starter job. Though I think Leon was given a raw deal going into 2007, I have no idea how much pain/fatigue he may have complained of on the sideline by the end of '06. Maybe none at all. And Clemens may surprise & be a really good QB. Cotchery didn't look like much for a few years & the assumption by most was that he just wasn't good enough, otherwise he would've been able to beat out JMac.

Still holding out hope. But our 3 picks of Schlegel-Smith-Smith will keep this from ever being an A+ draft. Too much more-heralded talent, at positions of need, was on the board.

Then again, one of those more heralded talents was Darnell Bing...

Yeah, my theory isnt perfect. Your points are valid, but if the Jets end up with two long term O lineman, a starting QB, and a 3rd down back/ punt returner from the same draft in a few years I dont think many people are gonna sweat the 3rd round disappointments. Everybody misses in the draft. At least the Jets didnt blow the first round in 06.