Jets First Round Pick

[Spudicus]

I do agree that getting a good RB is a lot easier to get in say the 3rd round, I'm just trying to make a case that getting a RB in round one wouldn't be a disaster or waste of a pick. Plenty of teams last year already had a RB situation that was well in hand for a couple years but they drafted a guy in the first round anyway. The Broncos and Pats stood pat with theirs and just grabbed guys late, once their main runner went down they discovered their value guys were later round picks for a reason, most were one dimensional runners.

Jones aging and no depth behind Leon scares the crap out of me. Also you can have more than one RB on the field at a time, split back sets, or even look at the set the ravens ran this year with a FB, RB, RB, all in a row. The more talented runners you have the more you can run them out there, fresh legs on the field all the time can really wear down a D. Again that being said ILB is the main priority, I'm just making a case that getting a RB this year should be a valid fall back.

[RutgersJetFan]

FYI, Laurinitis (as well as Curry) is skipping the Senior Bowl. Larry English didn't even get invited, which was a huge shocker. Official rosters should be out sometime today or tomorrow.

Hate to keep repeating it in every thread, but Davis' stock has really been dropping like a rock. This in spite of the fact that everyone knows he's going to work out fairly well. If there's anyone deserving of the overrated label at this point, it's him.

[Irish Jet]

Any chance LeSean McCoy falls to the second? He's a guy I would love us to get, even if it did involve a trade. Right now with his current draft stock though, I wouldn't consider him at #17.

With the first round pick, I'd like to see us go and get Jeremy Maclin, someone who has the speed to stretch the field and add a new dimension which this offense has desperately lacked. He would also pose great value with punt returns, which could give our only current gamebreaker, Leon Washington, more touches on offense. Heyward Bey has been mentioned a lot too but as some others have said I see a lot of Troy Williamson in that guy.

If he's not there I think we should go BPA (Away from offensive line, Tight ends). I'm not high on us getting a CB but if there's a good one there who we really like we have to take him. I'm not sold on the idea that we need a great CB opposite of Revis, someone adequate would be fine. We could go LB, and reinforce that group. If someone like Maualuga was there I'd take him in a heartbeat. He may be slightly overrated but he'd be a welcome addition and upgrade to out defense.

[Sperm Edwards]

I do agree that getting a good RB is a lot easier to get in say the 3rd round, I'm just trying to make a case that getting a RB in round one wouldn't be a disaster or waste of a pick. Plenty of teams last year already had a RB situation that was well in hand for a couple years but they drafted a guy in the first round anyway. The Broncos and Pats stood pat with theirs and just grabbed guys late, once their main runner went down they discovered their value guys were later round picks for a reason, most were one dimensional runners.

Jones aging and no depth behind Leon scares the crap out of me. Also you can have more than one RB on the field at a time, split back sets, or even look at the set the ravens ran this year with a FB, RB, RB, all in a row. The more talented runners you have the more you can run them out there, fresh legs on the field all the time can really wear down a D. Again that being said ILB is the main priority, I'm just making a case that getting a RB this year should be a valid fall back.

We are not lacking at RB except for short-yardage (hardly the position you draft in round 1).

Jones will be cut before next season.

Leon will be extended before this season is up (if the Jets give him enough carries that he wants to stay).

Either way, they'll draft someone else next year (or pick up someone in FA if there's someone worthwhile).

To me, it's too easy of a position to fill for a team with a solid blocking line, which the Jets do have.

Who was hands-down the best RB prospect of this bunch:

- Darren McFadden

- Steve Slaton

- Matt Forte

- Chris Johnson

Who is more talented:

- Derrick Ward

- Ronnie Brown

Which RB had more personal talent:

- Edgerrin James 2005 (pro bowl, 1506 yds, 13 TD's, 4.2 ypa)

- Edgerrin James 2006 (no pro bowl, 1159 yds, 6 TD's, 3.4 ypa)

The point is our OL situation is plenty-good that we don't need to "invest" in a 1st round RB while we have two healthy, capable ones on the roster. Particularly on a win-now team with gaping holes elsewhere (CB, ILB, etc) and limited cap room to fill them through free agency.

[RutgersJetFan]

Any chance LeSean McCoy falls to the second? He's a guy I would love us to get, even if it did involve a trade. Right now with his current draft stock though, I wouldn't consider him at #17.

At this point, probably not. If he puts up a sub 4.4 at the combine, no chance. The film's there to justify the grade, but scouts are uncertain as to how he'll workout. However, he always put up good track #'s at Pitt, and he started prepping for Indy weeks ago...my gut tells me he'll impress based on film and seeing him in person.

[Barton]

Rey Maualuga or Matt Stafford.

Trade up if needed.

[Spudicus]

Again we agree Irish, taking a CB at 17 seems like a panic move to me. Fixing the pass rush and adding another stud ILB would fix the problem. I was really hoping Spikes would come out, but if Rey was there at 17 he would be fine choice. We don't have a lot invested in the ILB right now I'd assume Barton is not coming back so it's Harris and an bunch of JAG's.

I'd be fully behind taking McCoy very young, we could let him sit a year or 2 and if something happens to TJ or Leon I'd feel a lot more comfortable with someone like McCoy stepping in than someone we grabbed in the 3rd or 4th or someone else's scrap heap guy. Those guys can work but the history shows more often than not it doesn't...and this is the luck of the Jets we're talking about, when was the last time we got a lucky break with a player?

Maclin scares me though, good return man, versatile on the offense and speedy. However is he ready to be a number 1, can he run complex routes and make adjustments, how would he react to offenses keying on him? Also he's hurt a lot and played hurt most of last year, thats a red flag right there.

[Irish Jet]

Again we agree Irish, taking a CB at 17 seems like a panic move to me. Fixing the pass rush and adding another stud ILB would fix the problem. I was really hoping Spikes would come out, but if Rey was there at 17 he would be fine choice. We don't have a lot invested in the ILB right now I'd assume Barton is not coming back so it's Harris and an bunch of JAG's.

I'd be fully behind taking McCoy very young, we could let him sit a year or 2 and if something happens to TJ or Leon I'd feel a lot more comfortable with someone like McCoy stepping in than someone we grabbed in the 3rd or 4th or someone else's scrap heap guy. Those guys can work but the history shows more often than not it doesn't...and this is the luck of the Jets we're talking about, when was the last time we got a lucky break with a player?

Maclin scares me though, good return man, versatile on the offense and speedy. However is he ready to be a number 1, can he run complex routes and make adjustments, how would he react to offenses keying on him? Also he's hurt a lot and played hurt most of last year, thats a red flag right there.

Let him sit?

No when you draft a RB high they have to become a big feature in the offense from the word go. Would he start? No but he would see a lot of playing time. You make the most out of a talented RB when they're young.

[Sperm Edwards]

Let him sit?

No when you draft a RB high they have to become a big feature in the offense from the word go. Would he start? No but he would see a lot of playing time. You make the most out of a talented RB when they're young.

I couldn't believe that one either. A first year RB doesn't sit for a year or two if he's worth taking in the middle of the first round.

Also don't agree that drafting a CB is a "panic move" for the Jets. When you have garbage at one CB position & garbage for depth behind him, I don't see that as a panic move. More like delusion if a great CB prospect is there but he doesn't play a fantasy football position so pass.

[Spudicus]

Well if we grab Moreno at 17 I want him to start, McCoy in the early 2nd rd maybe start maybe not but def see at least 10-15 carries a game. The thing is sperm we know Coleman is garbage and Carrol and Poteat are garbage but those guys are easy and cheap to replace. Lowery is an unknown right now, I think the kid can play.

Saying Davis is a lock as our draft choice right now is a panic move, we haven't even gone through free agency yet. Look at the Ravens they got Fabian Washington this year from the raiders for a 4th rounder, a former #1 pick for a 4th rounder. He's now playing very well as the number 2 for the Ravens. There are easier ways to get a quality corner than just drafting one. However after thinking about it, if on draft day the Jets are on the clock, we don't have a guy in place, Moreno and Maualuga are gone, and we're looking at Davis or Maclin, I'll be screaming for Davis.

[#27TheDominator]

If they go into next season without a new corner I'm going to panic. If Lowery isn't MUCH improved, so will everybody else.

[Sperm Edwards]

Well if we grab Moreno at 17 I want him to start, McCoy in the early 2nd rd maybe start maybe not but def see at least 10-15 carries a game. The thing is sperm we know Coleman is garbage and Carrol and Poteat are garbage but those guys are easy and cheap to replace. Lowery is an unknown right now, I think the kid can play.

Saying Davis is a lock as our draft choice right now is a panic move, we haven't even gone through free agency yet. Look at the Ravens they got Fabian Washington this year from the raiders for a 4th rounder, a former #1 pick for a 4th rounder. He's now playing very well as the number 2 for the Ravens. There are easier ways to get a quality corner than just drafting one. However after thinking about it, if on draft day the Jets are on the clock, we don't have a guy in place, Moreno and Maualuga are gone, and we're looking at Davis or Maclin, I'll be screaming for Davis.

1) Everyone wants to give every RB at least 10 carries a game. That works if you run the ball 40+ times every week.

2) Those garbage players are cheap to replace...with OTHER garbage players. To replace a garbage player with a non-garbage player is not cheap. And not as easy. If it was, there wouldn't be any garbage players starting in the NFL.

3) Fabian Washington is garbage.

[Spudicus]

We have no QB so we will be running 40 times a game, if all nickle and dime CB are garbage then who cares if our depth is garbage because every other teams depth is garbage, and if Fabian Washington sucks then why is it working...or right because they have a fully functioning defense. CB are only as good as the rest of the D first round or fourth round doesn't mean crap.

[Sperm Edwards]

We have no QB so we will be running 40 times a game, if all nickle and dime CB are garbage then who cares if our depth is garbage because every other teams depth is garbage, and if Fabian Washington sucks then why is it working...or right because they have a fully functioning defense. CB are only as good as the rest of the D first round or fourth round doesn't mean crap.

Fabian Washington is "working" because this year they didn't play with a secondary consisting of Darelle Revis and no one else, compounded by no pass rush and no coverage skills at LB either. He sucks and almost lost the game for them with his crappola coverage every time Carolina needed a completed pass on longer yardage. He's awful. He's just fast.

And nobody hands the ball off 40 times a game every game. That would equate to 640 RB carries on the regular season alone. Maybe 1 team every few years comes within 100 carries of doing that.

The point: where is the team best-served?

a) Adding a rookie so we have 3 HB's, adding to an already solid-enough pair of HB's.

Upgrading from complete garbage to a good player at CB, ILB, S, etc.

Forget about "years down the road" for now. Good HB prospects come out in every single draft. And every year I hear the same, "Oh, this is the next Jim Brown or the next Barry Sanders," or "The scouts ALL agree he's the best RB to come out since [insert name of HOF RB]." And 2010 will be no different.

Finding a starting CB is a hell of a lot harder to find than finding a starting (let alone RBBC) halfback. For every Darren McFadden & Cedric Benson, there's a Derrick Ward & a Willie Parker that make the pick look totally unnecessary.

Check these guys out. A couple dozen of them, all of whom are still playing, so you don't think I'm pointing to one ridiculous anomaly:

Brian Westbrook = bottom of round 3

Willie Parker = undrafted

Derrick Ward = round 7

Brandon Jacobs = round 4

Ahmad Bradshaw = bottom of round 7

Marion Barber = round 4

Ryan Grant = undrafted

Steve Slaton = bottom of round 3

Michael Turner = bottom of round 5

Kevin Smith = round 3

Le'Ron McClain = bottom of round 4

Leon Washington = middle of round 4

Frank Gore = round 3

Darren Sproles = bottom of round 4

Chester Taylor = round 6

Rudi Johnson = round 4

Sammy Morris = bottom of round 5

Michael Bush = round 4

Tashard Choice = bottom of round 4

Jerious Norwood = round 3

Pierre Thomas = undrafted

Earnest Graham = undrafted

Dominic Rhodes = undrafted

And that's without bringing up guys who retired in recent years like Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, Curtis Martin who everyone here seems to worship, Ahman Green, Stephen Davis, etc.

You do NOT need to draft a "RB of the future" in the middle of round 1. And it is not a well thought-out move when we have positions with glaring holes, where there should be outstanding talent that can step in as full-time starters from day one; rather than a RB to get 1/3 of 1/2 of our offensive plays.

[#27TheDominator]

We have no QB so we will be running 40 times a game, if all nickle and dime CB are garbage then who cares if our depth is garbage because every other teams depth is garbage, and if Fabian Washington sucks then why is it working...or right because they have a fully functioning defense. CB are only as good as the rest of the D first round or fourth round doesn't mean crap.

Cornerbacks that worked for the Jets last year included Dwight Lowery, David Barrett, Hank Poteat, Ty Law and Ahmad Carroll. Are you trying to tell me that none of those guys suck?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Fabian Washington is "working" because this year they didn't play with a secondary consisting of Darelle Revis and no one else, compounded by no pass rush and no coverage skills at LB either. He sucks and almost lost the game for them with his crappola coverage every time Carolina needed a completed pass on longer yardage. He's awful. He's just fast.

And nobody hands the ball off 40 times a game every game. That would equate to 640 RB carries on the regular season alone. Maybe 1 team every few years comes within 100 carries of doing that.

The point: where is the team best-served?

a) Adding a rookie so we have 3 HB's, adding to an already solid-enough pair of HB's.

Upgrading from complete garbage to a good player at CB, ILB, S, etc.

Forget about "years down the road" for now. Good HB prospects come out in every single draft. And every year I hear the same, "Oh, this is the next Jim Brown or the next Barry Sanders," or "The scouts ALL agree he's the best RB to come out since [insert name of HOF RB]." And 2010 will be no different.

Finding a starting CB is a hell of a lot harder to find than finding a starting (let alone RBBC) halfback. For every Darren McFadden & Cedric Benson, there's a Derrick Ward & a Willie Parker that make the pick look totally unnecessary.

Check these guys out. A couple dozen of them, all of whom are still playing, so you don't think I'm pointing to one ridiculous anomaly:

Brian Westbrook = bottom of round 3

Willie Parker = undrafted

Derrick Ward = round 7

Brandon Jacobs = round 4

Ahmad Bradshaw = bottom of round 7

Marion Barber = round 4

Ryan Grant = undrafted

Steve Slaton = bottom of round 3

Michael Turner = bottom of round 5

Kevin Smith = round 3

Le'Ron McClain = bottom of round 4

Leon Washington = middle of round 4

Frank Gore = round 3

Darren Sproles = bottom of round 4

Chester Taylor = round 6

Rudi Johnson = round 4

Sammy Morris = bottom of round 5

Michael Bush = round 4

Tashard Choice = bottom of round 4

Jerious Norwood = round 3

Pierre Thomas = undrafted

Earnest Graham = undrafted

Dominic Rhodes = undrafted

And that's without bringing up guys who retired in recent years like Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, Curtis Martin who everyone here seems to worship, Ahman Green, Stephen Davis, etc.

You do NOT need to draft a "RB of the future" in the middle of round 1. And it is not a well thought-out move when we have positions with glaring holes, where there should be outstanding talent that can step in as full-time starters from day one; rather than a RB to get 1/3 of 1/2 of our offensive plays.

I have to agree here. The only time you should spend a round 1 pick on a RB is if he's at the Peterson/Tomlinson caliber of back. There are a few nice backs in this year's draft, but I'd rather spend the 1st rounder elsewhere.

[MTJ06]

And nobody hands the ball off 40 times a game every game. That would equate to 640 RB carries on the regular season alone. Maybe 1 team every few years comes within 100 carries of doing that.

The point: where is the team best-served?

a) Adding a rookie so we have 3 HB's, adding to an already solid-enough pair of HB's.

Upgrading from complete garbage to a good player at CB, ILB, S, etc.

Forget about "years down the road" for now. Good HB prospects come out in every single draft. And every year I hear the same, "Oh, this is the next Jim Brown or the next Barry Sanders," or "The scouts ALL agree he's the best RB to come out since [insert name of HOF RB]." And 2010 will be no different.

Finding a starting CB is a hell of a lot harder to find than finding a starting (let alone RBBC) halfback. For every Darren McFadden & Cedric Benson, there's a Derrick Ward & a Willie Parker that make the pick look totally unnecessary.

Check these guys out. A couple dozen of them, all of whom are still playing, so you don't think I'm pointing to one ridiculous anomaly:

Brian Westbrook = bottom of round 3

Willie Parker = undrafted

Derrick Ward = round 7

Brandon Jacobs = round 4

Ahmad Bradshaw = bottom of round 7

Marion Barber = round 4

Ryan Grant = undrafted

Steve Slaton = bottom of round 3

Michael Turner = bottom of round 5

Kevin Smith = round 3

Le'Ron McClain = bottom of round 4

Leon Washington = middle of round 4

Frank Gore = round 3

Darren Sproles = bottom of round 4

Chester Taylor = round 6

Rudi Johnson = round 4

Sammy Morris = bottom of round 5

Michael Bush = round 4

Tashard Choice = bottom of round 4

Jerious Norwood = round 3

Pierre Thomas = undrafted

Earnest Graham = undrafted

Dominic Rhodes = undrafted

And that's without bringing up guys who retired in recent years like Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Jamal Anderson, Curtis Martin who everyone here seems to worship, Ahman Green, Stephen Davis, etc.

You do NOT need to draft a "RB of the future" in the middle of round 1. And it is not a well thought-out move when we have positions with glaring holes, where there should be outstanding talent that can step in as full-time starters from day one; rather than a RB to get 1/3 of 1/2 of our offensive plays.

top 7 rushing attempts this year:

Ravens-592 carries

Falcons-560

Vikes -519

Pats-513

Titans-508

Panthers-504

Giants -502

19th Jets 422

Top 5 had a young or unstable QB situation. All made the playoffs (except the Pats at 11-5).

The Jets need to get a good RB for this year. Not a "RB of the Future" or a "guy for years down the road" especially if we have a young QB. Where we get that RB depends on where the value is. If its the draft the round is dependent on positional depth, maybe `someone will become available via FA.

The fact of the matter remains that going into the season with Thomas Jones (one of the oldest in the league) and Leon (who knows if he can be an everydown back if TJ gets hurt) and a Jesse Chatman type just cant happen.

[BroadwayJ667]

maybe the Jets ought to take a flyer on Ian Johnson then, he'd be a late round guy, and from all accounts he seems to be a passionate football player

[Spudicus]

Thats what I've been trying to say going into the season with just TJ and Leon is tempting fate, but then again so is going in with no plan at CB, both positions need attention I'm not saying they don't.

Thats a nice little list you have there as well Sperm, which I agree with, you can get those kind of guys late in rounds, from small schools, underrated programs, most college teams have 3-5 RB on roster every year so there is always a glut of talent it's just a matter of finding it. I was browsing the drafts as well, there are always a ton of CB taken the the first round, and I poked a hole in my theory, the Chargers took one this year, took Cromartie in the first round in 06 and Jammer in the first round in 02, 3 1st round corners on the same roster....they must have been a great pass defence.

Wait...lets look at the rankings...31..well I guess the jets were 32 right...oh we were 29, hmm that's strange, oh wait I know why we both sucked...PASS RUSH. Till we fix the pass rush the blitz and get the linebackers working properly we have no business taking a CB in round 1 because it won't fix a damn thing.

edit: Also if you look at the defensive rankings against the pass the best teams there are also the teams with the best pass rush, the raiders were 10th and all they have is Nnamdi the rest behind him is garbage yet they made it work, if they can we can do it with Revis and Lowery.

2nd edit: For the ravens 592 carries overall in the season is 37 carries per game on average, 3 rb=the ability to run more often thus less pressure on the QB the carry the team, it worked for the the titans, the giants and the ravens.

[gsnts725]

The NFL Draft is a crapshoot... you can get a very talented player, but could end up a bust because of injuries or not being able to handle the big lights and pressure of the NFL. You need to have good scouts to be successful in drafts, but also you need a little bit of luck. So what I say is go for the guy who best fits the team and its needs. Right now, I see CB and WR as big needs because Coles is really getting old and sometimes incosistent and the only NFL-caliber starting CB we have on this team is Revis. So go w/ Vontae Davis or Hakeem Nicks.

[Sperm Edwards]

top 7 rushing attempts this year:

Ravens-592 carries

Falcons-560

Vikes -519

Pats-513

Titans-508

Panthers-504

Giants -502

19th Jets 422

Top 5 had a young or unstable QB situation. All made the playoffs (except the Pats at 11-5).

The Jets need to get a good RB for this year. Not a "RB of the Future" or a "guy for years down the road" especially if we have a young QB. Where we get that RB depends on where the value is. If its the draft the round is dependent on positional depth, maybe `someone will become available via FA.

The fact of the matter remains that going into the season with Thomas Jones (one of the oldest in the league) and Leon (who knows if he can be an everydown back if TJ gets hurt) and a Jesse Chatman type just cant happen.

over 50 of those rushing attempts for the top two teams came from the QB's. Throw in a couple of QB sneaks here & there, but most of those come on busted plays rather than designed runs. So it's still off by over 100 carries (a ridiculous number, particularly when you're already up that high).

Nobody hands the ball off 40x per game every game. Not even Herm.

To draft an insurance policy in the first round is a lousy idea. If the team had no holes elsewhere (or maybe one hole), then you can have that luxury. That is not the New York Jets.

[Spudicus]

I'm not talking insurance policy I want a new starter, Jones may be fine this year but you said yourself, next year is probably gone. This year looks like a perfect storm, Moreno and Wells are top 15 guys McCoy is a first round talent, but pretty much every team in the league has a young starter at this point, it's not often you can get that caliber of talent with the 17th pick, and if we need that guy next year we might not be in the position to get him. Most of the undrafted and late round guys were brought in purely for depth and turned out to be something or were flyerss because the team already had a well established starter in his prime.

Jones is not in his prime low mileage or not, we need a RB for next year and I have zero faith in this current scouting staff to find those value guys, we've kept 1 out of 9 players drafted 3rd round and later from 04 (the one player we kept was Cotch, and Derrick Ward was in that class) 2 out of 6 from 05, 4 out of 7 from 06 (might go down to 1 or 2 by next season), 1 out of 2 from 07 (hard to draft those gems when you trade away the picks though I guess). They brought in many undrafted and FA RB and not one of them has stuck around, obviously they didn't bring in Leon to be a starter, the last RB the jets brought in that was even considered to be a starter was Lamont Jordan. The Jets have not even attempted to develop or draft a franchise runner since Jordan almost as if they thought Martin could run forever, he couldn't and Jones can't, the future is now.

[#27TheDominator]

Forget RB and CB. ILB is the #1 hole on the team. Barton is a UFA. That leaves Harris, Bowens, Trusnik and Kassell. I don't know about you, but I think Bowens has proven he is not an every down ILB. Kassell is a ST'er and Mangini guy and I wondered how he stuck around. May well be an early cut by Rex. Trusnik looks promising, but I'm not ready to hand him a starting job with no competition.

[Spudicus]

I agree, but given the fact that spikes is staying we'd have to pray Maualuga fell to us or Rex pushes hard to trade up and get him.

[Sperm Edwards]

Well if we grab Moreno at 17 I want him to start, McCoy in the early 2nd rd maybe start maybe not but def see at least 10-15 carries a game. The thing is sperm we know Coleman is garbage and Carrol and Poteat are garbage but those guys are easy and cheap to replace. Lowery is an unknown right now, I think the kid can play.

Saying Davis is a lock as our draft choice right now is a panic move, we haven't even gone through free agency yet. Look at the Ravens they got Fabian Washington this year from the raiders for a 4th rounder, a former #1 pick for a 4th rounder. He's now playing very well as the number 2 for the Ravens. There are easier ways to get a quality corner than just drafting one. However after thinking about it, if on draft day the Jets are on the clock, we don't have a guy in place, Moreno and Maualuga are gone, and we're looking at Davis or Maclin, I'll be screaming for Davis.

1) Everyone wants to give every RB at least 10 carries a game. That works if you run the ball 40+ times every week.

2) Those garbage players are cheap to replace...with OTHER garbage players. To replace a garbage player with a non-garbage player is not cheap. And not as easy. If it was, there wouldn't be any garbage players starting in the NFL.

3) Fabian Washington is garbage.

Fabian Washington is garbage.

[Spudicus]

Alright Sperm you win, your right Fabian Washington is garbage, doesn't change my point. Talented CB's would go to waist unless we fix the pass rush. The order of importance should be LB, DE, RB, CB.

[#27TheDominator]

Alright Sperm you win, your right Fabian Washington is garbage, doesn't change my point. Talented CB's would go to waist unless we fix the pass rush. The order of importance should be LB, DE, RB, CB.

Your point is contradictory. You didn't want to take a CB because the Jets have so much money wrapped up in Revis. Then you want to draft pass rush? What about all the money they have wrapped up in Pace, Thomas, Gholston, Bowens, Ellis and even Coleman? That's a ton of $$ for pass rushers. Sure they aren't very good at it, but they cost money and it's not like we can dump them considering all the dead money that'd bring. Besides, they are better at their job than Lowery/Barrett/Poteat.

[Spudicus]

I'm saying we have to fix the pass rush, if we draft a DE obviosuly we cut one either ellis or coleman, and the LB would be on the inside where we actually don't have a lot of money invested.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm saying we have to fix the pass rush, if we draft a DE obviosuly we cut one either ellis or coleman, and the LB would be on the inside where we actually don't have a lot of money invested.

ILB is my #1 need, but you generally aren't getting too many sacks from inside. Aren't you the guy that was saying with Spikes staying and Maualuga gone by #17 we shouldn't reach? I don't have a problem with taking a position that isn't a great need if it's the BPA.

[Spudicus]

Well that i think Is the hardest thing not to do, we all agree ILB is a big need, and it does help the pass rush, it frees up the OLB's more often, and in Ryans system scott and lewis do blitz often. There may not be an ILB available when we pick, so then what do we do, well BPA right, normally yes but the cap is tight so we have to prioitize by what would help us or contribute most to the team that we can not get on a shorter term or for less money without a significant drop off in play.

For example at 17 we are faced with this option all the top ILB are gone any other ilb at this point would be a serious reach so we are faced with these choices based on our needs Vontae Davis, Knowshon Moreno, Tyson Jackson, or just for other options Peria Jerry or Patrick Chung.

Well Vontae could help right out of the box this is true, but would it make a significant difference if we don't adress the weak spots in the middle and on the DL (Ellis is getting old and Coleman has not lived up to what he should be.) Also he would be pricier than some vets out there and I don't think the drop off in play would be substantial

Moreno would be a true runner, but would he see much playing time outside of someone getting hurt, However this would adress a definite need for next year which if we do well this year might not be in a position to fill. There is a lot out there at RB and right now it doesn't appear to be a pressing need but if something bad happend to leon or TJ I'd rather have a guy on roster I feel confident in handing the rock.

Tyson Jackson would be a slight reach at our position and we have a lot of money dedicated there, so someone would have to be cut or traded which if he doesn't pan out could burn us. May or may not be an upgrade over what we have and would surley cost more.

Peria Jerry is the same essentially a replacment for Coleman as a run stopping DE who was a DT in college. Could flame out and 17 would be considered early to pick him. Would also cost more than what we have for a possible marginal improvment

Chung baring an excelent combine would also be considered a reach but a major upgrade over what we have and we have next to nothing spent on the safties other than Rhodes.

So we have to ask is reaching better off than drafting the BPA if the BPA doesn't really help us much. Thinking about it and hearing your guys opinons I'm not sure anymore, I think Moreno would be a huge help to this team but would it be enough of a help I'm not sure about. Davis I still think wouldn't be that different than a FA in regards to on the field impact. Heck looking at it now I want a Saftey if we can't get an ILB.

[Sperm Edwards]

No one advocates reaching for anyone. That's always dumb. But then, reaching is only someone's opinion. Flacco wasn't supposed to be a first round pick & Mayo wasn't supposed to be top-10. They were "reaches" - meanwhile Gholston & McFadden were not.

But an upgrade to our 3rd RB is less necessary than an upgrade at ILB, CB, S, and WR.