Yankees Bullpen

[Morrissey]

These are probably the candidates for the bullpen. I'm not sure how many players Girardi will want in his bullpen, I'd probably go with 6.

Here are the candidates. I didn't list LHP Phil Coke, because the Yankees told him to prepare this offseason as a starter.

Mariano Rivera

Damaso Marte

Brian Bruney

Jose Veras

Edwar Ramirez

David Robertson

Mark Melancon

Humberto Sanchez

Alfredo Aceves

Jonathan Albaladejo

I think our bullpen will look different midseason than it will on opening day, because Melancon has the potential one day to replace Rivera, if replacing Rivera is even possible. Malencon is going to start the season in AAA, but should be called up if he has a great start. I also think Humberto Sanchez has a good chance to be a very good pitcher in the bullpen, I'm not sure if the Yankees still see him as a starter, but i think the bullpen would suit him better. We have a lot options here. I personally don't like the idea of wasting a bullpen spot on a long man, unless you could waste the roster spot on him.

I'd go with this bullpen to start the year.

Mariano Rivera

Damaso Marte

Brian Bruney

Jose Veras

Edwar Ramirez

David Robertson

To end, I hope the Yankees sign FA Juan Cruz. He would be a great RH setup man with lefty Marte

[piney]

I agree, in theory Cruz is perfect for this 'pen

[MagicBizkit87]

I would have Coke in the pen... lol

If we don't sign Cruz, this is what I'd go with...

Rivera

Marte

Bruney

Veras

Ramirez

Coke

Melancon

If we do sign Cruz, I'd just have Melancon start the year in Triple A.

[Morrissey]

I would have Coke in the pen... lol

If we don't sign Cruz, this is what I'd go with...

Rivera

Marte

Bruney

Veras

Ramirez

Coke

Melancon

If we do sign Cruz, I'd just have Melancon start the year in Triple A.

I like Coke a lot for the bullpen, but the Yankees told him to prepare this offseason as a starter.

[MagicBizkit87]

I like Coke a lot for the bullpen, but the Yankees told him to prepare this offseason as a starter.

I know, I just don't think he'll make it as a starter. Plus I think Phil Hughes will actually win a game, or two this year, and would be a more effective pitcher as a starter. I really see Phil Coke as good as Joba was in the pen, and why shouldn't I think that? Their stats were pretty close after the first couple of tries out of the pen.

[Morrissey]

I know, I just don't think he'll make it as a starter. Plus I think Phil Hughes will actually win a game, or two this year, and would be a more effective pitcher as a starter. I really see Phil Coke as good as Joba was in the pen, and why shouldn't I think that? Their stats were pretty close after the first couple of tries out of the pen.

Ehh, I like Coke a lot, but they aren't the same type of pitcher. Coke is more like a #3-4 as a starter, and probably lefty setup man in the bullpen. Joba is more likely a #1 or #2 as a starter, and dominant closer in the bullpen.

[Maxman]

I still say Joba should go back to the Pen. After spending all that money they better have enough starters.

[Morrissey]

I still say Joba should go back to the Pen. After spending all that money they better have enough starters.

No no no no no no, you don't put a pitcher of that talent in the bullpen. Period.

[Bergen Jet]

I still say Joba should go back to the Pen. After spending all that money they better have enough starters.

I actually agree with this. I envisioned him as the replacement to Mo. Set ourselves up for a decade + at closer like we did with Mo. If the Yankees plan to baby him along again as a starter and limit his innings/pitches again then he has no business to be a member of the starting rotation. He has the goods to excel in either situation so I will be happy with him either way.

[NIGHT STALKER]

No no no no no no, you don't put a pitcher of that talent in the bullpen. Period.

I disagree. I'd rather have him help save a few games in a row that are on the line rather then using him every 5 days. Everyone seems to forget the Rivera/Wetteland combo...it was deadly.

[PFSIKH]

I disagree. I'd rather have him help save a few games in a row that are on the line rather then using him every 5 days. Everyone seems to forget the Rivera/Wetteland combo...it was deadly.

Paps was a starter. He took it for a season when Foulke was done and when the Sox had no better options entering 2007 stayed.

[uart]

People seem to forget that Mo failed miserably as a starter. Mo would've been a starter if he could've cut it as one.

Dominant closers are mediocre starters at best. Hence, why they are in the 'pen. If someone is or has the potential to be a dominant starter, you let them start games. Period.

[Morrissey]

It's absolutely asinine to put Joba in the bullpen. A complete waste of talent. The bullpen is for pitchers who can't cut it as a starter, we have to give Joba a chance as a starter, like we did with Rivera. Joba has been dominating at every level as a starting pitcher, to end that in the majors without giving him a chance to succeed or fail, is simply stupid. Nothing is more vauable than ace pitcher, they changes games, they change series, they changed weeks, they change seasons. A goal is to have a few dominating starters for a short series. Starting pitching wins championships.

[uart]

It's absolutely asinine to put Joba in the bullpen. A complete waste of talent. The bullpen is for pitchers who can't cut it as a starter, we have to give Joba a chance as a starter, like we did with Rivera. Joba has been dominating at every level as a starting pitcher, to end that in the majors without giving him a chance to succeed or fail, is simply stupid. Nothing is more vauable than ace pitcher, they changes games, they change series, they changed weeks, they change seasons. A goal is to have a few dominating starters for a short series. Starting pitching wins championships.

Exactly. Billy Beane is right to think that closers are overrated. It's nice to have a good closer, but most people give them more credit than they are worth.

[Morrissey]

Exactly. Billy Beane is right to think that closers are overrated. It's nice to have a good closer, but most people give them more credit than they are worth.

In the last 2 offseasons, K-Rod, Putz, Lidge, Percival, Street, Valverde, Francisco Cordero, Wood, Fuentes, and Hoffman have all changed teams. Guys like Soria and Capps have emerged. Closers are not that difficult to replace.

Rivera is a rare commodity, but if he can do what he does for 200 innings a season, he'd be a starting pitcher.

Besides we have a guy, in Mark Melancon, who has been a closer since college, who has the stuff and attitude to be a closer.

[PFSIKH]

People seem to forget that Mo failed miserably as a starter. Mo would've been a starter if he could've cut it as one.

Dominant closers are mediocre starters at best. Hence, why they are in the 'pen. If someone is or has the potential to be a dominant starter, you let them start games. Period.

Not always.

Smoltz excelled at both.

I see your point and agree to a point. I would add a caveat to it by saying that not every pitcher can handle the closer role. I think if you find a guy like Mariano or Paps, players that excel at it. You consider keeping them.

There are a lot of examples of players dominating as a closer one year then sucking the next. Continued excellence like Mariano is rare.

[Morrissey]

Would you rather have Joba for 150-200 innings a season or 65-80 innings a season? It's pretty much that simple.

[Maxman]

No no no no no no, you don't put a pitcher of that talent in the bullpen. Period.

I know what you are saying. And last year I agreed with what they did with him. He has 4 pitches, and could be a # 1 starter. Usually that means you put him in the rotation and get him some experience. Here are the reasons against it, for this season:

• He is still going to be limited inning wise, so if he makes 35 starts they will have a problem
  
• The Yankees best chance of winning the World Series this year is with Joba in the pen.
  

Although without Pettite this is less of a no-brainer. I started thinking this way when I thought Andy was going to be resigned. So not to hedge my bet but without Andy it is less of a no-brainer.

The 8th inning still scares me though.

[Maxman]

Would you rather have Joba for 150-200 innings a season or 65-80 innings a season? It's pretty much that simple.

Long term if he is dominant you want him for more innings. But this is more than that. My fear is that the equation you posted above won't be the one that we calculate.

What if?

What if it comes down to something like this:

Joba for 130 innings as a starter. Or 80 ip as a reliever. I am just talking about this year only. They are still going to limit his innings as a starter because he didn't hit his # last year.

[Morrissey]

I know what you are saying. And last year I agreed with what they did with him. He has 4 pitches, and could be a # 1 starter. Usually that means you put him in the rotation and get him some experience. Here are the reasons against it, for this season:

• He is still going to be limited inning wise, so if he makes 35 starts they will have a problem
  
• The Yankees best chance of winning the World Series this year is with Joba in the pen.
  

Although without Pettite this is less of a no-brainer. I started thinking this way when I thought Andy was going to be resigned. So not to hedge my bet but without Andy it is less of a no-brainer.

The 8th inning still scares me though.

If you plan on having Joba as a starter in the long run, you can't stall his development by having him in the bullpen. Nothing should get in a way of the development of a young pitcher. You can't let 36 year old pitcher change the way you develop him, and you can't let a void in the bullpen effect what you do. If you have a plan, you need to stick with it. The Yankees have messed around with Joba too much already. Joba threw 100 innings last year. He should be good for 140-150. It's going to be easy enough for the Yankees to keep him in the back end of rotation the whole season by taking him out after 6 innings in a blow out or even skipping a few starts.

[piney]

Long term if he is dominant you want him for more innings. But this is more than that. My fear is that the equation you posted above won't be the one that we calculate.

What if?

What if it comes down to something like this:

Joba for 130 innings as a starter. Or 80 ip as a reliever. I am just talking about this year only. They are still going to limit his innings as a starter because he didn't hit his # last year.

well, I don't think the career decision has to be made this year...

I say this year you see what you can get, if Joba shows that he can't handle an increased workload, whatever that may be, but obviously more than his inning last season, then he is a reliever...and future closer.

The good thing about Joba is how young he is, that they can experiment with him a bit until they know exactly what he can handle.

[Morrissey]

Long term if he is dominant you want him for more innings. But this is more than that. My fear is that the equation you posted above won't be the one that we calculate.

What if?

What if it comes down to something like this:

Joba for 130 innings as a starter. Or 80 ip as a reliever. I am just talking about this year only. They are still going to limit his innings as a starter because he didn't hit his # last year.

If Joba proves that he can't handle the load, than you can revisit what you want to do with him, but you have to give him a chance first.

[Morrissey]

Here is the Yankees future closer.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Exactly. Billy Beane is right to think that closers are overrated. It's nice to have a good closer, but most people give them more credit than they are worth.

Billy Beane is an idiot...how many championships has he won lately? And how many championships do you think we win without Rivera?

[Morrissey]

Billy Beane is an idiot...how many championships has he won lately? And how many championships do you think we win without Rivera?

Rivera was big part of those championships, but I would argue the likes of David Cone, Andy Pettitte, David Wells, and Orlando Hernandez had as much, or more to do with it.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Rivera was big part of those championships, but I would argue the likes of David Cone and Orlando Hernandez had more to do with it.

Really? How many games did Rivera save for those guys through the course of the season? We may not even have gotten to as many postseasons without him...we sometimes take Rivera for granted in my opinion. He's a first ballot HOF'er...none of the Yankee pitchers during their WS run from '96 will even get a sniff at the HOF.

[Morrissey]

Really? How many games did Rivera save for those guys through the course of the season? We may not even have gotten to as many postseasons without him...we sometimes take Rivera for granted in my opinion. He's a first ballot HOF'er...none of the Yankee pitchers during their WS run from '96 will even get a sniff at the HOF.

Who pitched 5+ innings to give Rivera the opportunity to pitch 1 or 2 innings to save the game? Remember a save is a team statistic.

I'm not, and have never taken Rivera for granted, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer because he's really good at what he does, and he's been doing it for a long time, but he cant do what Cone, Pettitte, Wells, and Hernandez did for those championship years, Rivera proved he couldn't be a starting pitcher.

I would also say Hall of Famer Derek Jeter has less to with those championships, than Bernie Williams, who won't be a Hall of Famer, so being a Hall of Fame has nothing to do with it.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Who pitched 5+ innings to give Rivera the opportunity to pitch 1 or 2 innings to save the game? Remember a save is a team statistic.

I'm not, and have never taken Rivera for granted, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer because he's really good at what he does, and he's been doing it for a long time, but he cant do what Cone, Pettitte, Wells, and Hernandez did for those championship years, Rivera proved he couldn't be a starting pitcher.

I would also say Hall of Famer Derek Jeter has less to with those championships, than Bernie Williams, who won't be a Hall of Famer, so being a Hall of Fame has nothing to do with it.

I can always depend on you for a good debate...thank god you're a Yankees fan. So, you think being a HOF'er has nothing to do with championships? See that guy in my sig wearing #7...do you think he had anything to do with winning championships?

[Morrissey]

I can always depend on you for a good debate...thank god you're a Yankees fan. So, you think being a HOF'er has nothing to do with championships? See that guy in my sig wearing #7...do you think he had anything to do with winning championships?

Of course he did... he had a lot to do with it, he also just so happens to be one of the greatest hitters of All-Time. You have to look at the players and see what they did, case by case. Hall of Famer Wade Boggs, we would of won the World Series in '96.. with or without him.

[PFSIKH]

Exactly. Billy Beane is right to think that closers are overrated. It's nice to have a good closer, but most people give them more credit than they are worth.

Ask a Mets fan about this.

[uart]

Billy Beane is an idiot...how many championships has he won lately? And how many championships do you think we win without Rivera?

How many times has Beane turned a mediocre pitcher into a closer, let him rack up some easy saves, and then pawned that guy off on a dumber GM?

I agree that Beane's strategy is flawed, he is constantly "rebuilding." That said, he usually gets good "value" in personnel.

[uart]

Really? How many games did Rivera save for those guys through the course of the season? We may not even have gotten to as many postseasons without him...we sometimes take Rivera for granted in my opinion. He's a first ballot HOF'er...none of the Yankee pitchers during their WS run from '96 will even get a sniff at the HOF.

Saves are a meaningless stat. K-Rod gets a lot of saves...

[uart]

Ask a Mets fan about this.

Just wait till they see how many baserunners K-Rod allows.

[GreenBeans]

You know what I want - I want my starters to be expected to pitch no more than 6 innings. I want 7-8-9 shutdown completely, just the way things were when the pen was primarily Stanton/Nelson/Mendoza/Rivera. Put Joba in the pen and shorten 80 games? I'd take that over 130 as a starter any day. Joba in the pen is the way to go - I said the same last year, I'm saying it again this year.

[Morrissey]

You know what I want - I want my starters to be expected to pitch no more than 6 innings. I want 7-8-9 shutdown completely, just the way things were when the pen was primarily Stanton/Nelson/Mendoza/Rivera. Put Joba in the pen and shorten 80 games? I'd take that over 130 as a starter any day. Joba in the pen is the way to go - I said the same last year, I'm saying it again this year.

You guys have to give this up, the decision has been made.