Adalius Thomas sounds off on the NFL

[Sperm Edwards]

I can't believe I'm taking the players' side on this one, as I usually find these gripes to be misguided by people who fell into the stupid luck of being good at a game that is very popular at this particular time in earth's history.

But I am.

Contracts are negotiated not based on work or even the number of games per se. What they are negotiated on is based on how much a player is worth relative to the amount a team can spend on the salary cap.

Now the cap goes up every year & every player & agent know this going into any negotiations.

But when you expand the regular season by a game or two, the overall revenue for the league goes up. In turn, so does the salary cap, since that is based on total league revenue.

The truth is, they are NOT getting paid for those extra games. But if they knew going into it that the cap was going to be higher - because of more games being played - they could theoretically have secured a better deal for themselves. Particularly players who sign deals that are longer in duration. For guys who have 1 or 2 years left on their contracts, hey life isn't fair; get used to it. But if you have 5-6 years left on a contract? That was based on an expected increase in salary cap money based on 16-game seasons.

I don't know how much more a player would have gotten if a contract was signed a year or two before an expanded season went into effect, but it definitely could be argued that if it was a possibility that negotiations and contract terms may have been different.

Hell, they may have had contracts written of ___ dollars per year (or per game or whatever) in a 16 game season, and different terms if the season were expanded to 17 or 18 games.

It's not as simple as "shut up; you're rich & play a game for a living" to these guys. Even if it is kind of true.

[GangGreen]

He makes some good points here. Man, is he pissed off!

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/04/adalius_thomas_1.html

Selfish ass bitch. "Oh, I only get $5M a year, how am I going to live?!?!?!?!....wahhhhhhhhh:1cry:

[Alk]

Selfish ass bitch. "Oh, I only get $5M a year, how am I going to live?!?!?!?!....wahhhhhhhhh:1cry:

I don't think that's the point really. I think the point is getting paid for your contribution to the company. Are you telling me that if your boss told you that you were going to work Saturdays for free that you would just bend over and say "how about Sundays too!!"

[Gainzo]

I don't think that's the point really. I think the point is getting paid for your contribution to the company. Are you telling me that if your boss told you that you were going to work Saturdays for free that you would just bend over and say "how about Sundays too!!"

GangGreen is just looking at the money the players make. He isn't looking at the big picture.

The owners call all the shots in the NFL like the players call all the shots in MLB. I think there needs to be a happy medium reached that appeases both sides.

[PFSIKH]

GangGreen is just looking at the money the players make. He isn't looking at the big picture.

The owners call all the shots in the NFL like the players call all the shots in MLB. I think there needs to be a happy medium reached that appeases both sides.

That is an interesting point.

The players compensate for the unguaranteed contracts by receiving signing bonuses.

What would the players do if Goodell came upto them an offered them guaranteed contracts, but no signing bonuses?

Think Haynesworth would be willing to give up that $41 million he just received? I Doubt it.

Their salary structure is fairly sound, but they need to fix rookie wages in the Top 10.

There is no reason for a work stoppage. Both sides are compensated. They need to work some things out in order to make the system more equitable for the veteran that has earned it.

[Gainzo]

That is an interesting point.

The players compensate for the unguaranteed contracts by receiving signing bonuses.

What would the players do if Goodell came upto them an offered them guaranteed contracts, but no signing bonuses?

Think Haynesworth would be willing to give up that $41 million he just received? I Doubt it.

Their salary structure is fairly sound, but they need to fix rookie wages in the Top 10.

There is no reason for a work stoppage. Both sides are compensated. They need to work some things out in order to make the system more equitable for the veteran that has earned it.

A rookie cap needs to be put in place. The veteran players are adamant about this and I'm sure the owners agree.

Think the Jets would like the $21 million in guaranteed money that they gave to Gholston last year?

[joebabyny]

Two meaningless games in which starters hardly play now become important and require full participation. You don't see how that makes a difference at the same pay?

Contracts were negotiated based on a 16 game regular season.

Last i checked a team's decision to play or not play a particular player in the preseason is the team's decision, and is not in any contract or cba agreement. A player is paid to play for the year, that includes pre and post season no matter how long or short either is. I believe the way preseason money is paid out has more to do with 1) the fact that there are a lot of guys on the team that will never play more than those few preseason games and 2) the team isn't really seeing any revenue until the actual season starts so it is a cashflow thing. But at the end of the day, a player does not sign one contract for regular season and one for preseason, he signs one to play for the year, and if a team decides to play a player for 4 quarters in the preseason than that is their right, so he is already contractually obligated to play in 20 games. I would love to see Thomas forced this preseason to play full games for all four to teach him a lesson.

[Aten]

The veteran players are adamant about this and I'm sure the owners agree.

Depends which veteran players you mean. The ones who favor limiting rookie salaries are the ones who stand to benefit from it on merit. The ones who don't are the ones who are better off relying on a rising tide to lift all boats. Guess who's outnumbered?

[joebabyny]

So I guess the moral of the story is the majority of posters here would love to work more yet get paid the same. Man there are some stupid mother f#ckers here.

no, unless i am wrong there is one contract that is for 20 games split up into pre and regular season, not seperate contracts for pre and regular season. A team's decision to not play a player in a preseason game is their own decision. If a team wants their starters to play an entire preseason game it is within their rights under the contracts. It is just at this point that the games mean nothing so they don't chance injuries on a meaningless game, but ther ability to play them is there if they chose to exercise it.

My first real corporate job was in client service for a financial firm. I was paid a set salary for a 40 hour work week, 9-5. Now, I would get an hour for lunch where I wouldn't actually work, but if I wanted to catch overtime when they had a busy period, I first had to make up the 5 hours I blew off for lunch each week which was what i was obligated to under my salary. The current nfl season is the same thing, the teams aren't playing the players in preseason but they can and they are being paid for that time already even if the coach doesn't utilize them.

[shawn306]

2011 is going to be very interesting. When was the last work stoppage? Mid '80's right?

The owners bitch and moan about their debt levels but refuse to open their books for the NFLPA. I would love to see how much revenue Kraft generates every year.

Last work stoppage was 1987. Owners went and brought in replacement players.

I can't wait to see how they are going to justifying charging thousands of dollars to watch Joe Blow play QB, instead of Peyton Manning.

[joebabyny]

I'll tell you what...

It is going to be very very interesting when the CBA comes up.

The NFL sits atop a gold mine right now. They just signed a billion dollar deal with Direct TV. (Yes billion). They make huge amounts of money with network TV and PSL's and everything.

If the owners can't get together with the players and hammer out a deal it is going to be very bad for NFL.

Can you imagine paying $300 bucks to watch scab football on Direct TV or even worse paying huge amounts of money in tickets to watch scab football ?

The NFL could be getting real close to killing the golden goose.

You know what, the owners hold all the cards. The owners made their millions or billions elsewhere then bought these teams, so they can go make their money elsewhere. The players on the other hand, well, a lot of them would be hard pressed to find something better than the average american's yearly income if they weren't playing football. I would say 99.5% of them would never come close to sniffing 1 million dollars in their life if there were no football for them to play.

[joebabyny]

Last work stoppage was 1987. Owners went and brought in replacement players.

I can't wait to see how they are going to justifying charging thousands of dollars to watch Joe Blow play QB, instead of Peyton Manning.

They wouldn't have to. If I am an owner I am paying a scab maybe 500.00 a game. I make the tickets 15.00 a piece and fill the stadium anyway and show the players who runs the show. That would bring in 1.2 million dollars in ticket sales per game without concessions thrown in, and fielding a team for 26,000 a game in salary, probably less than the dallas cowgirls cost!

Contrary to current sentiment out there in media land these days, this country is built on entrepreneurs. Someone has to take the risk and stake the money, and they should be rewarded for their efforts if it works out. If you don't like working for someone else and making them money, than you go into business for yourself. Communists cry about owners making all the money of the workers backs.

[Gainzo]

You know what, the owners hold all the cards. The owners made their millions or billions elsewhere then bought these teams, so they can go make their money elsewhere. The players on the other hand, well, a lot of them would be hard pressed to find something better than the average american's yearly income if they weren't playing football. I would say 99.5% of them would never come close to sniffing 1 million dollars in their life if there were no football for them to play.

I am on the players side in this. The owners are arseholes. You have season tickets right? Do you like paying for those? I don't.

As I stated earlier, I'm paying a little over $1,000 for preseason games this season. The owners take that money to the bank. Not to mention the fact I had to pay for my season tickets before March 31. Nice to see Kraft collecting the interest on that money

[PFSIKH]

You know what, the owners hold all the cards. The owners made their millions or billions elsewhere then bought these teams, so they can go make their money elsewhere. The players on the other hand, well, a lot of them would be hard pressed to find something better than the average american's yearly income if they weren't playing football. I would say 99.5% of them would never come close to sniffing 1 million dollars in their life if there were no football for them to play.

The players do own some cards.

They have the talent.

Direct TV is not going to pay a billion dollars for any of us to line-up under center to throw a pass. While the NFL does market teams, it is it's stars, it's talent that has us devoting 9 months out of every year talking/watching football.

[joebabyny]

I am on the players side in this. The owners are arseholes. You have season tickets right? Do you like paying for those? I don't.

As I stated earlier, I'm paying a little over $1,000 for preseason games this season. The owners take that money to the bank. Not to mention the fact I had to pay for my season tickets before March 31. Nice to see Kraft collecting the interest on that money

dude, i feel the pain of being a season ticket holder just like everyone else. But every time a player gets a huge contract, where do you think that money comes from? I pay the same for a preseason ticket as a regular season ticket, I want to see the players play. Now if a coach doesn't want to risk injury for a meaningless game, then make the games count. If I am paying for the ticket the same, why aren't the players playing the same?

[ECURB]

dude, i feel the pain of being a season ticket holder just like everyone else. But every time a player gets a huge contract, where do you think that money comes from? I pay the same for a preseason ticket as a regular season ticket, I want to see the players play. Now if a coach doesn't want to risk injury for a meaningless game, then make the games count. If I am paying for the ticket the same, why aren't the players playing the same?

BINGO!

It is not much different than forcing you to pay for rights to watch training camp... or a scrimmage...

[joebabyny]

The players do own some cards.

They have the talent.

Direct TV is not going to pay a billion dollars for any of us to line-up under center to throw a pass. While the NFL does market teams, it is it's stars, it's talent that has us devoting 9 months out of every year talking/watching football.

But my point is the owners figured out other ways in life to make a living as a millionaire, and they can go back to doing that, whereas the players need the game and the owners. If I stake all the money to buy a team, and take the risks that my team may suck, i may never sell a game out, a natural disaster may kill my stadium and season or one of a ton of other risks that may lead me to lose millions or billions, than I deserve to make the most money.

[PFSIKH]

dude, i feel the pain of being a season ticket holder just like everyone else. But every time a player gets a huge contract, where do you think that money comes from? I pay the same for a preseason ticket as a regular season ticket, I want to see the players play. Now if a coach doesn't want to risk injury for a meaningless game, then make the games count. If I am paying for the ticket the same, why aren't the players playing the same?

TV money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_MetroArea_2.html

While your ticket is of course a factor, the TV package is what makes the NFL the NFL.

[Gainzo]

But my point is the owners figured out other ways in life to make a living as a millionaire, and they can go back to doing that, whereas the players need the game and the owners. If I stake all the money to buy a team, and take the risks that my team may suck, i may never sell a game out, a natural disaster may kill my stadium and season or one of a ton of other risks that may lead me to lose millions or billions, than I deserve to make the most money.

Without the players there is no NFL. The owners know what they are doing.

[PFSIKH]

But my point is the owners figured out other ways in life to make a living as a millionaire, and they can go back to doing that, whereas the players need the game and the owners. If I stake all the money to buy a team, and take the risks that my team may suck, i may never sell a game out, a natural disaster may kill my stadium and season or one of a ton of other risks that may lead me to lose millions or billions, than I deserve to make the most money.

Is it NY people? We have this argument in the baseball forum all the time.

That Robert Kraft made a billion dollars doing something else or Woody inherited a billion has nothing to do with anything.

They are not required to subsidize their football teams. Can they? Yes, but they are not required to or would I expect them to.

Football is a self sufficient business.

It is also the players right to go earn a living in some other endeavor that their skill set can be utilized in. It is privilege to play the game. Seeing the salary scale starts at a minimum of $285,000, the players are already well compensated especially considering it is game.

Now, I am not saying they should bend over and take it in the a$$ Jet Nation style. They should be well compensated, but let's be real. This is not selfless service. They do it for the money and they are paid.

[joebabyny]

TV money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_MetroArea_2.html

While your ticket is of course a factor, the TV package is what makes the NFL the NFL.

either way it is still the fans eyeballs that generate that income, by paying for tickets or being subjected to commercial revenue on tv. My point is still valid.

[joebabyny]

Without the players there is no NFL. The owners know what they are doing.

same exact thing can be said about the owners. My point is that i would bet the owners have a lot of other options in life other than the nfl if that were to go away tomorrow.

[joebabyny]

Is it NY people? We have this argument in the baseball forum all the time.

That Robert Kraft made a billion dollars doing something else or Woody inherited a billion has nothing to do with anything.

They are not required to subsidize their football teams. Can they? Yes, but they are not required to or would I expect them to.

Football is a self sufficient business.

It is also the players right to go earn a living in some other endeavor that their skill set can be utilized in. It is privilege to play the game. Seeing the salary scale starts at a minimum of $285,000, the players are already well compensated especially considering it is game.

Now, I am not saying they should bend over and take it in the a$$ Jet Nation style. They should be well compensated, but let's be real. This is not selfless service. They do it for the money and they are paid.

i don't understand where you are disagreeing with what i am getting at.

[uart]

Wow. Thats' not a lot on a weekly basis, actually.

[uart]

I stopped reading it... he is a moron... it does not matter how the money is spread out...

If Tom Brady makes 15 million in 09'... he makes 15 million no matter how the games are arranged...

He is trying to make it sound as if players will get paid less by switching a couple pre-season games to regular season games... they wont... he is an idiot.

Yeah, but now starters are going to be expected to actually PLAY. And play significant minutes, in those last two preseason games....

[Sperm Edwards]

TV money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_MetroArea_2.html

While your ticket is of course a factor, the TV package is what makes the NFL the NFL.

Which is what I was saying earlier. If they made it known that they wanted to expand the season starting in 2014, then players can have their contracts written up as (in a fictitious no-bonus/same-pay-each-year contract):

2014 = $5,000,000 ($5.31M if 17 reg. season games; $5.63M if 18 reg. season games)

2015 = $7,000,000 ($7.44M if 17 reg. season games; $7.88M if 18 reg. season games)

etc.

But because there was no official announcement of this from the commissioner, no one (to the best of my knowledge) has this written into their contracts right now. Unless the plan is to pay guys another game check for the extra two games, since the league revenue & salary caps will grow by many millions. The idea has been bounced around the last couple of years, so one could argue that players & agents who negotiated contracts the last year or two were shortsighted in not including longer-season provisions. It should have been palatable to the team signing them, as the team revenue & salary cap would both go up.

You want to know what the real joke is? The playoffs pay. Everyone gets a game-check for (approximately) the amortized amount of the NFL-minimum salary. So in round numbers they get paid like $20K for the game. Hell, I'd play for free myself, but lots of these guys signed contracts to play for hundreds of thousands of dollars per game during the regular season & their (financial) reward for the playoffs is more work at a 90% or greater pay cut. As in Kurt Warner, throwing 30-40 passes & a few touchdowns per game in the playoffs, makes the same as a special teams player who is only on the active roster due to injury to a different scrub special teams player.

Of course all of the ticket holders don't pay 90% less for their seats, nor does everyone pay the same as the lowest-priced guy in the back row of the cheapest nosebleed section, but then that's another story altogether.

[afosomf]

Which is what I was saying earlier. If they made it known that they wanted to expand the season starting in 2014, then players can have their contracts written up as (in a fictitious no-bonus/same-pay-each-year contract):

2014 = $5,000,000 ($5.31M if 17 reg. season games; $5.63M if 18 reg. season games)

2015 = $7,000,000 ($7.44M if 17 reg. season games; $7.88M if 18 reg. season games)

etc.

But because there was no official announcement of this from the commissioner, no one (to the best of my knowledge) has this written into their contracts right now. Unless the plan is to pay guys another game check for the extra two games, since the league revenue & salary caps will grow by many millions. The idea has been bounced around the last couple of years, so one could argue that players & agents who negotiated contracts the last year or two were shortsighted in not including longer-season provisions. It should have been palatable to the team signing them, as the team revenue & salary cap would both go up.

You want to know what the real joke is? The playoffs pay. Everyone gets a game-check for (approximately) the amortized amount of the NFL-minimum salary. So in round numbers they get paid like $20K for the game. Hell, I'd play for free myself, but lots of these guys signed contracts to play for hundreds of thousands of dollars per game during the regular season & their (financial) reward for the playoffs is more work at a 90% or greater pay cut. As in Kurt Warner, throwing 30-40 passes & a few touchdowns per game in the playoffs, makes the same as a special teams player who is only on the active roster due to injury to a different scrub special teams player.

Of course all of the ticket holders don't pay 90% less for their seats, nor does everyone pay the same as the lowest-priced guy in the back row of the cheapest nosebleed section, but then that's another story altogether.

Playoffs are a team award..pretty cool they all get paid the same

they are playing for ring at that point anyway.

[Sperm Edwards]

Playoffs are a team award..pretty cool they all get paid the same

they are playing for ring at that point anyway.

They are still risking injury that could cause some to miss out on literally 1000x that amount in remaining contract years.

I have no patience for players wanting to renegotiate contracts after receiving sizable bonus checks & then bitching about the one year where the "base salary" number is a mere million dollars.

But this is different. The truth is that it is a rough sport. One that (at various levels of football) has left people crippled or paralyzed or dead. And for the star players that make the league watchable in the first place, the game check for a playoff game is tantamount to playing & risking career-ending injury for free.

But this is a different topic anyway.

Regarding a 17 or 18 game season, the difference is that players & agents negotiate contracts based on expected salary caps in future years on 16-game seasons. How much of the salary cap should they negotiate for themselves in year 4, etc. If they knew there would be potentially 12.5% more TV & ticket money, they might have been able to negotiate a contract 12.5% higher.

Mock it all you want, but in this case the players are right.

[afosomf]

They are still risking injury that could cause some to miss out on literally 1000x that amount in remaining contract years.

I have no patience for players wanting to renegotiate contracts after receiving sizable bonus checks & then bitching about the one year where the "base salary" number is a mere million dollars.

But this is different. It's a rough sport, and for the star players that make the league watchable in the first place, the game check for a playoff game is tantamount to playing & risking career-ending injury for free.

i understand that..football is much different...their next play could be their

last...

it's nice to see a guy who makes $300k and gets beat up all year on ST

make $60k on a playoff run...

[PFSIKH]

Which is what I was saying earlier. If they made it known that they wanted to expand the season starting in 2014, then players can have their contracts written up as (in a fictitious no-bonus/same-pay-each-year contract):

2014 = $5,000,000 ($5.31M if 17 reg. season games; $5.63M if 18 reg. season games)

2015 = $7,000,000 ($7.44M if 17 reg. season games; $7.88M if 18 reg. season games)

etc.

But because there was no official announcement of this from the commissioner, no one (to the best of my knowledge) has this written into their contracts right now. Unless the plan is to pay guys another game check for the extra two games, since the league revenue & salary caps will grow by many millions. The idea has been bounced around the last couple of years, so one could argue that players & agents who negotiated contracts the last year or two were shortsighted in not including longer-season provisions. It should have been palatable to the team signing them, as the team revenue & salary cap would both go up.

You want to know what the real joke is? The playoffs pay. Everyone gets a game-check for (approximately) the amortized amount of the NFL-minimum salary. So in round numbers they get paid like $20K for the game. Hell, I'd play for free myself, but lots of these guys signed contracts to play for hundreds of thousands of dollars per game during the regular season & their (financial) reward for the playoffs is more work at a 90% or greater pay cut. As in Kurt Warner, throwing 30-40 passes & a few touchdowns per game in the playoffs, makes the same as a special teams player who is only on the active roster due to injury to a different scrub special teams player.

Of course all of the ticket holders don't pay 90% less for their seats, nor does everyone pay the same as the lowest-priced guy in the back row of the cheapest nosebleed section, but then that's another story altogether.

Good thing the Jets have spared you this hardship throughout their history.

I think that is what Thomas' point is and I agree. While they are paid for the preseason at a per diem rate and the receive 17 game checks, that is two extra games they put their body out there. Granted, this is not like being a soldier or a cop, it is extra work.

Too much money out there to make everyone happy.

[Sperm Edwards]

i understand that..football is much different...their next play could be their

last...

it's nice to see a guy who makes $300k and gets beat up all year on ST

make $60k on a playoff run...

I agree with that. But the NFL makes a fortune on playoff games. They are ratings (and therefore advertising revenue) bonanzas for those individual games. At a minimum they should make the amortized amount of the MEDIAN player, not the amortized amount of a guy who is literally the 53'rd man who barely warranted a promotion from the practice squad.

[afosomf]

I agree with that. But the NFL makes a fortune on playoff games. They are ratings (and therefore advertising revenue) bonanzas for those individual games. At a minimum they should make the amortized amount of the MEDIAN player, not the amortized amount of a guy who is literally the 53'rd man who barely warranted a promotion from the practice squad.

Devil's advocate

These fringe players last how long in league, maybe 4 years...if lucky

i like seeing these guys get rewarded for a team milestone, rather than

seeing Cindy or peyton making another $200k, when they clearly do not

need the coin. They are set for life and promotions will always come

their way.

[Sperm Edwards]

Good thing the Jets have spared you this hardship throughout their history.

I think that is what Thomas' point is and I agree. While they are paid for the preseason at a per diem rate and the receive 17 game checks, that is two extra games they put their body out there. Granted, this is not like being a soldier or a cop, it is extra work.

Too much money out there to make everyone happy.

One could argue there's too much money out there to NOT make everyone happy.

ROOKIES should all make the same amount (within each round or half-round). Then it's actually a BENEFIT to the worst team in the league to get the #1 pick, and that idiotic draft pick value chart could actually have some merit. There would also be no rookie holdouts either.

[Sperm Edwards]

Devil's advocate

These fringe players last how long in league, maybe 4 years...if lucky

i like seeing these guys get rewarded for a team milestone, rather than

seeing Cindy or peyton making another $200k, when they clearly do not

need the coin. They are set for life and promotions will always come

their way.

You're talking about a handful of guys who fall into that category. There are former pro bowl players who are now trying to make ends meet 20+ years later. They don't all have the face of Cindy Brady or (supposed) charm of Peyton Manning to keep them in magazines & commercials forever.

I'll give you an example: Carson Palmer. What if wasn't able to come back from that broken leg & signed his contract extension at the end of January instead of the end of December? He would have lost out on a $100M extension for a single football game. That really flies in the face of what most rational people would consider "right" or "appropriate" in that situation.

Whether you think they are overpaid or not - and like baseball players, they are - is irrelevant. They are providing a form of entertainment that rakes in billions of dollars. Should only owners & networks make a killing on it? They wouldn't make this much if it was all "fringe" players. It is the superstars like Cindy or Peyton in the league that make it great. The greatness of these players is why their teams win so much, and their superior talent & play is what makes it great when lesser Davids beat these Goliaths.

The playoff pay is a joke. These guys have played hard all season to earn the post-season & beyond. They then get paid less than in a low-revenue, meaningless-by-comparison, regular-season game against a last-place team that the media ignores. Meanwhile the league & the networks make an ungodly fortune in terms of revenue per game because EVERY playoff game is nationally televised on network TV.

[Jetfan13]

I stopped reading it... he is a moron... it does not matter how the money is spread out...

If Tom Brady makes 15 million in 09'... he makes 15 million no matter how the games are arranged...

He is trying to make it sound as if players will get paid less by switching a couple pre-season games to regular season games... they wont... he is an idiot.

exactly..he got that same $15 mill last year for playing 1/2 of 1 game