JI/JN Border War Mafia Game Thread

[Vito Corleone]

Ok, it's not against the spirit of the game. I'm still keeping my thoughts behind the alts to myself, lest I become a scum target - I don't know who is on my side yet. The object of the town is to identify scum so why would only scum be interested in who's who?

Why would sharing those ideas make you more of a scum target? I don't get it.

To me, it's scummy to suggest you know something but you're keeping it to yourself. It's like "almost" role claiming. I just don't like it. If you think you know something that you also feel would be helpful to the town, why would you withold it? That's not town friendly at all.

[Frank Costello]

Ok, it's not against the spirit of the game. I'm still keeping my thoughts behind the alts to myself, lest I become a scum target - I don't know who is on my side yet. The object of the town is to identify scum so why would only scum be interested in who's who?

Because if I'm scum, I want to know who to take out based on what I perceive their abilities to be, whether positive or negative..

If I'm a regular old townie, why would I care whose who? Maybe I'm curious, but you alluded to doing research and keeping notes - seems to me like somebody whose motivated to find out whose who..

[Frank Costello]

also, re: the above, a cultist would probably really want to know who to convert..

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count:

Lefty Ruggerio (4) - Joe Cabot, Jimmy Conway, Sonny LoSpecchio, Al Capone

Marcellus Wallace (4) - John Rooney, Tony Montana, Tony Soprano, Lefty Ruggerio

Carlito Brigante (2) - Frank Costello, Vito Corleone

Joe Cabbot (3) - Nicky Santoro, Virgil Sollozo, Henry Hill

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch

[Lefty Ruggerio]

How many crybabies are we going to have in one game? Scolding you? You can't possibly be serious.

I made a very valid comment that there are people in this thread being "involved" while contributing absolutely nothing. Ever since then its the only thing you can concentrate on because you want to be able to say whatever you want and nobody should dare say a word about it. And you know what, that's fine because as I will say for the third time since apparently you are too dense to pay attention the first two, the bottom line is to also actually try contributing something, which some here are clearly not.

And there is no "faux confusion", there's 19 people in the game with random names, so sorry if it means I have to go back and look to remember who exactly said what. In what possible world is that concept even remotely scummy? Hell, you said yourself "all you have to do is go back and look" and my EXACT comment when I made my point was "I honestly have to look into it further". So you actually ended up agreeing with what I said!

Lets be honest, the only thing you've got against me is being all pissy about a point that wasn't even directed at you because you want to make random bull**** comments all day.

I appreciate the anger-filled gobbledygook but my point still remains. You know that there's virtually no info to be garnered on day 1 yet here you are again talking about peoples lack of substantive contributions.

Which one is it Joe? Are people expected to be able to provide keen insight on day 1 or is it a crap shoot. So far you've been saying it's both... over and over again.

Oh and I fully intend on making many more random bull**** comments thank you very much. Mafangula!!!

[Jimmy Conway]

With you I meant more in and out of the game.

A fair observation. Then again my activity isn't much higher or lower then others who have posted lots of garbage.

The Cabot vs. Lefty match up is catching my interest though. Hypocrisy is a key indicator of scum. Also, Carlito's cryptic message about withholding thoughts is interesting as well. I believe we had Vic do this last game only to basically give away the fact he was the cop.

[Joe Cabot]

I appreciate the anger-filled gobbledygook but my point still remains. You know that there's virtually no info to be garnered on day 1 yet here you are again talking about peoples lack of substantive contributions.

Which one is it Joe? Are people expected to be able to provide keen insight on day 1 or is it a crap shoot. So far you've been saying it's both... over and over again.

Oh and I fully intend on making many more random bull**** comments thank you very much. Mafangula!!!

Are you going to get a great case to lynch someone on day one? No, probably not. Can you get at least a slightly informed decision? Sure. Can you begin to generate information about players that will be helpful in making determinations in future days? Absolutely.

I'm not expecting ground-breaking stuff here, but there are people (and no, I don't mean you) who have done almost nothing but make those same kind of random comments in the entire thread. How long do you allow that for before you come to realize that you have no substantial information to review for a significant group of people? Its no better than being inactive, the only difference is they don't blatantly pop out when looking at a post count list, so it makes it that much easier for them to hide.

Debating this endlessly isn't going to get us anywhere and I had no intentions of making a big deal out of this. All I wanted to do was make a point so people could keep an eye out for those who are only posting random crap in order to stay involved while saying nothing. Frankly, I didn't expect people to take it so personally and get all pissy over it.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Are you going to get a great case to lynch someone on day one? No, probably not. Can you get at least a slightly informed decision? Sure. Can you begin to generate information about players that will be helpful in making determinations in future days? Absolutely.

I'm not expecting ground-breaking stuff here, but there are people (and no, I don't mean you) who have done almost nothing but make those same kind of random comments in the entire thread. How long do you allow that for before you come to realize that you have no substantial information to review for a significant group of people? Its no better than being inactive, the only difference is they don't blatantly pop out when looking at a post count list, so it makes it that much easier for them to hide.

Debating this endlessly isn't going to get us anywhere and I had no intentions of making a big deal out of this. All I wanted to do was make a point so people could keep an eye out for those who are only posting random crap in order to stay involved while saying nothing. Frankly, I didn't expect people to take it so personally and get all pissy over it.

I understand what you're saying but still find you to be highly suspicious.

Is there anyone besides Lefty you care to discuss?

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Pot, meet kettle.

Any comments about Joes play? You seem awfully subdued after yesterdays theatrics.

[Fredo Corleone]

You're right, the dozen posts you made throwing a fit over the votes you received is certainly equivalent to me once pointing out the fact that Nicky's entire argument me is based on him getting all pissy over the fact that I made the entirely valid point that some people are making posts which are completely useless to the game and not contributing anything.

Holy crap your a grumpy old bastid. I can't tell if your scummy or you have a case of the crabs.

[Fredo Corleone]

Why would sharing those ideas make you more of a scum target? I don't get it.

To me, it's scummy to suggest you know something but you're keeping it to yourself. It's like "almost" role claiming. I just don't like it. If you think you know something that you also feel would be helpful to the town, why would you withold it? That's not town friendly at all.

Does sound like he's claiming to know something the rest of us don't. He has the ear of the Corleone family, out of respect he should share what he knows. Yet, if it's a reveal I hope he jokes on it.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Any comments about Joes play? You seem awfully subdued after yesterdays theatrics.

Subdued? I would agree with that considering that yesterday I felt I was being railroaded on a BS claim by a poster (Joe) who did a hit-and-run. That train slowed and people got to look at what was happening.

I still believe that Joe's reasoning to vote for me was BS, coupled with him disappearing after making a grant total of 6 posts. Then, as you pointed out, he chastises others for their contributions when his has been awfly meager. He accuses me of being defensive and laying insults, but when you put the heat on him he is equally defensive and quick to insult. So, not only does he make misrepresentations, he's two-faced as well.

I originally didn't want to vote for him because I felt it would be a, "waaa, you voted for me, so I'm voting for you," but it's more than that now. I voted for MW because of his weird play of complaining how people were posting, getting voted for, and then dissapearing. Also, I did it for self-preservation. That latter is no longer the case at the moment. So, I'm left with that a-hole Cabot.

Unvote: Marcellus Wallace

Vote: Joe Cabot

I'm being calmer today, so no "theatrics." I know this is only business, not personal, but I take personal satisfaction in voting for him.

[Joe Cabot]

Subdued? I would agree with that considering that yesterday I felt I was being railroaded on a BS claim by a poster (Joe) who did a hit-and-run. That train slowed and people got to look at what was happening.

I still believe that Joe's reasoning to vote for me was BS, coupled with him disappearing after making a grant total of 6 posts. Then, as you pointed out, he chastises others for their contributions when his has been awfly meager. He accuses me of being defensive and laying insults, but when you put the heat on him he is equally defensive and quick to insult. So, not only does he make misrepresentations, he's two-faced as well.

I originally didn't want to vote for him because I felt it would be a, "waaa, you voted for me, so I'm voting for you," but it's more than that now. I voted for MW because of his weird play of complaining how people were posting, getting voted for, and then dissapearing. Also, I did it for self-preservation. That latter is no longer the case at the moment. So, I'm left with that a-hole Cabot.

Unvote: Marcellus Wallace

Vote: Joe Cabot

I'm being calmer today, so no "theatrics." I know this is only business, not personal, but I take personal satisfaction in voting for him.

Nobody was picking on you, it was one observation which I didn't push particularly hard which makes it very suspicious that you're still endlessly going on about it. I've actually addressed every one of your points and all you have done is ignore that and continue to repeat the same things.

You said you didn't want to do the "I'm voting for him because he voted for me" routine, yet your entire post points exactly to that as your reasoning. If that's what it is then so be it, but lets call a spade, a spade here.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count:

Lefty Ruggerio (4) - Joe Cabot, Jimmy Conway, Sonny LoSpecchio, Al Capone

Marcellus Wallace (3) - John Rooney, Tony Montana, Tony Soprano

Carlito Brigante (2) - Frank Costello, Vito Corleone

Joe Cabbot (4) - Nicky Santoro, Virgil Sollozo, Henry Hill, Lefty Ruggerio

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch

[Tommy Devito]

Does sound like he's claiming to know something the rest of us don't. He has the ear of the Corleone family, out of respect he should share what he knows. Yet, if it's a reveal I hope he jokes on it.

I really doubt that's what he means, Fredo. What I think he's basically saying is that if he says that Al Capone is EY for example, and Capone happens to be EY and also scum, that if he was right maybe they would kill him because they see that he's a strong or perceptive player for that reason.

[Joe Cabot]

Subdued? I would agree with that considering that yesterday I felt I was being railroaded on a BS claim by a poster (Joe) who did a hit-and-run. That train slowed and people got to look at what was happening.

I still believe that Joe's reasoning to vote for me was BS, coupled with him disappearing after making a grant total of 6 posts. Then, as you pointed out, he chastises others for their contributions when his has been awfly meager. He accuses me of being defensive and laying insults, but when you put the heat on him he is equally defensive and quick to insult. So, not only does he make misrepresentations, he's two-faced as well.

I originally didn't want to vote for him because I felt it would be a, "waaa, you voted for me, so I'm voting for you," but it's more than that now. I voted for MW because of his weird play of complaining how people were posting, getting voted for, and then dissapearing. Also, I did it for self-preservation. That latter is no longer the case at the moment. So, I'm left with that a-hole Cabot.

Unvote: Marcellus Wallace

Vote: Joe Cabot

I'm being calmer today, so no "theatrics." I know this is only business, not personal, but I take personal satisfaction in voting for him.

I tend to agree on these thoughts towards Joe. I'm not a fan of bandwagonning, but as was said yesterday, if MW was scum, I think he'd be trying not to piss people off and stick out with some of the stuff. Just me.

Bandwagon or not, we've gotta get somewhere, and Joe's hypocricy reeks a good bit of trying to get people behind him with the inactivity vote. It's early...no need to worry about inactivity until the next day or so.

Vote: Joe Cabot

[Joe Cabot]

I understand what you're saying but still find you to be highly suspicious.

Is there anyone besides Lefty you care to discuss?

I'm fine with that, its the nature of the game and I know you have your reasons, I just want my actual stance to be crystal clear, so there's no room for inaccurate interpretations.

As far as other people, there's some posts I definitely want to go back and reread and sometimes that's tough to do that while at work, which is why I usually just respond to what comes up actively during the day. But when I get home tonight I will definitely chime in with more thoughts on others.

[Joe Cabot]

I tend to agree on these thoughts towards Joe. I'm not a fan of bandwagonning, but as was said yesterday, if MW was scum, I think he'd be trying not to piss people off and stick out with some of the stuff. Just me.

Bandwagon or not, we've gotta get somewhere, and Joe's hypocricy reeks a good bit of trying to get people behind him with the inactivity vote. It's early...no need to worry about inactivity until the next day or so.

Vote: Joe Cabot

So did you read my posts or are you just believing what others tell you? Because never once did I say for us to go after inactives. More than anything, my point has been how deceiving post counts can be in this game and keep an eye on those who were keeping themselves "active" while contributing nothing. I don't understand what is so hard about this concept for people to grasp.

[Tony Soprano]

I don't think there is even the hint of a real case against anyone. With this many players, and with Alts, this first day may set records for length. But then, I'm used to setting records for length. Just ask Joe's wife.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count:

Lefty Ruggerio (4) - Joe Cabot, Jimmy Conway, Sonny LoSpecchio, Al Capone

Marcellus Wallace (3) - John Rooney, Tony Montana, Tony Soprano

Carlito Brigante (2) - Frank Costello, Vito Corleone

Joe Cabbot (5) - Nicky Santoro, Virgil Sollozo, Henry Hill, Lefty Ruggerio, Tommy DeVito

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch

[Tommy Devito]

I'm not confident with any of the current cases either. They all look pretty thin to me. It definitely looks like it's going to be a long day.

I'm also wondering where he went:

Vote: John Rooney

[Joe Cabot]

Let's really take a deep look at my "suspicious" behavior, in a completely honest manner. There are pretty much two things everyone seems upset about:

1. I commented on something questionable in Lefty's post, said there wasn't much else to go on at that point and made a vote. Lefty threw a fit over it and I responded to his posts on the subject, particularly those I found to be inaccurate. Since the argument got dragged on (by Lefty mind you), it was twisted into me trying to push a train on Lefty. The reality? I made one point and a vote. After that, all I did was respond to questions / accusations about it. If it wasn't for his poor reaction, I probably wouldn't even be voting him anymore.

2. I made a point about the in-character posting and how it could be used to create a convenient combination of being active while not putting oneself in harm's way. Nicky took exception to it and started pushing the issue. I addressed the issue as it was repeatedly brought up, which has now been transformed into making this huge deal into people's activity level. The reality? I made one point about something we might want to be wary of and keep an eye on. Never have I once encouraged we go after people on the basis of vote count / activity level.

If you want to vote me off for a legitimate reason than so be it, but do it for a real reason, not because you're following the exaggerated accusations from people who took exception to two single statements I made. If you guys honestly think you'll get good information out of lynching me then that's fine, I just can't stand the idea of it just being based on these two twisted points.

With that said, I'll be back later to provide my thoughts on some other players.

[Doggin94it]

Vote Count:

Lefty Ruggerio (4) - Joe Cabot, Jimmy Conway, Sonny LoSpecchio, Al Capone

Marcellus Wallace (3) - John Rooney, Tony Montana, Tony Soprano

Carlito Brigante (2) - Frank Costello, Vito Corleone

Joe Cabbot (5) - Nicky Santoro, Virgil Sollozo, Henry Hill, Lefty Ruggerio, Tommy DeVito

John Rooney (1) - Michael Corleone

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch

[Carlito Brigante]

I really doubt that's what he means, Fredo. What I think he's basically saying is that if he says that Al Capone is EY for example, and Capone happens to be EY and also scum, that if he was right maybe they would kill him because they see that he's a strong or perceptive player for that reason.

That's exactly what I'm saying (minus the EY being Capone part).

[Tommy Devito]

The game starts with only one cult member.

Is he the only cult member that can recruit?

[Doggin94it]

Is he the only cult member that can recruit?

Yes

[Frank Costello]

That's exactly what I'm saying (minus the EY being Capone part).

Earlier you specifically said you would become a scum target, now you are saying that the names you release may become scum targets..

Can you explain this?

Ok, it's not against the spirit of the game. I'm still keeping my thoughts behind the alts to myself, lest I become a scum target - I don't know who is on my side yet. The object of the town is to identify scum so why would only scum be interested in who's who?

[Tommy Devito]

FOS Lefty, Carlito, and Tony Montana for being look-alikes, btw. Of course, I'm the original.

[Tommy Devito]

Earlier you specifically said you would become a scum target, now you are saying that the names you release may become scum targets..

Can you explain this?

I think you're misreading, but you still make a good point for not revealing who he thinks is who, because the people he reveals could become targets too.

[Carlito Brigante]

Earlier you specifically said you would become a scum target, now you are saying that the names you release may become scum targets..

Can you explain this?

Fa sho. If I divulge what people I think certain characters might be, there is a possibility that they are scum. If I'm correct, I paint a target on my back.

I think you're misreading, but you still make a good point for not revealing who he thinks is who, because the people he reveals could become targets too.

Thank you for being the translator of the words of me.

[Tommy Devito]

I doubt he's pegged anybody though, tbh.

[Fredo Corleone]

Fa sho. If I divulge what people I think certain characters might be, there is a possibility that they are scum. If I'm correct, I paint a target on my back.

Thank you for being the translator of the words of me.

Carlito? Why would your word on who is who be anymore certain than anybody else. You would be just spitting names like any of us. Unless of course you do know more than we do because of some role?

Or is the sheer genius of Carlito Brigante suppose to make me just gloss a smile over my face and accept this as testament?

[Vito Corleone]

FOS Lefty, Carlito, and Tony Montana for being look-alikes, btw. Of course, I'm the original.

That's part of what makes it hard to keep everyone straight. Pacino, De Niro, and Pesci must make up half the players in this game.

I doubt he's pegged anybody though, tbh.

He'd have to be good. But that's coming from the guy who's always last to realize that jetsrule128 has a new screen name.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Carlito? Why would your word on who is who be anymore certain than anybody else. You would be just spitting names like any of us. Unless of course you do know more than we do because of some role?

Or is the sheer genius of Carlito Brigante suppose to make me just gloss a smile over my face and accept this as testament?

Other than Joe and Lefty being bipolar, this is bothering me as well. I just dont know why you would make that statement. Just weird and I dont like the way he brushed it off as nothing.

However, I'm not sure if I should be suspicious of you or not. Tony asked me if my grammatical error was intentional or not. And the theory was bogus to begin with because according to Doggin the cult leader is alone, but you jumped all over it. Then you even unvoted me based of that potential but didnt even address the fact you were wrong when it was debunked. I find that strange, along with the fact you have been all over the place with your voting. However, at least you are strirring the pot.

Which leads me to ask why so many players havent voted? I understand that its early and there isnt a whole lot to go on, but pressuring players that have been suspicious is the only way to develop cases to vote. I think there is enough to go onto at least put pressure on players. I am not saying we should rush to lynch, but at least get some conversation going. Whether you vote because of actions, reactions or no actions at least you are going to make someone talk.

[Lefty Ruggerio]

Carlito? Why would your word on who is who be anymore certain than anybody else. You would be just spitting names like any of us. Unless of course you do know more than we do because of some role?

Or is the sheer genius of Carlito Brigante suppose to make me just gloss a smile over my face and accept this as testament?

That is definately an odd thing to claim. Unless Carlito is asserting that he has some day powers. This is what Doggin wrote in the instructions:

Day Actions: Read your Role Assignment carefully! You may have an available action that can be performed during the Day phase. If you have any questions about your powers and abilities, don't hesitate to ask me about it.

HOWEVER, there is no way Carlito could have a day power which would give him info on more than one person. Is that right Doggin?