PS17 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 We send Girardi to Boston for Terry Francona. Straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otter Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 We send Girardi to Boston for Terry Francona. Straight up. I'd do this in a second. But it would only work if we swapped Theo for Cashman too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'd do this in a second. But it would only work if we swapped Theo for Cashman too. You are brilliant my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm on board, hated the Joe hire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm not going to say anything bad about Girardi right now, only because we won, but I was pissed when the moron took Hughes out, and brought Bruney in for the 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 We send Girardi to Boston for Terry Francona. Straight up. Errrrr NO DEAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbro22 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm indifferent about Girardi only because I don't know of anyone that was available that could have done a better job. I also feel like the organization has him handcuffed in a lot of ways. Like last years inning limits, which I still think a lot of the staff has this year. Thank god we didn't tell the rest of the league this year what the limits were. Last year was a disaster, all teams had to do was chip away at the young guys, knowing they'd get into our pen before the 4th inning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Since we a proposing trades all willynilly like I say Posada, Swisher and Matsui for Mauer and Morneu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm indifferent about Girardi only because I don't know of anyone that was available that could have done a better job. I also feel like the organization has him handcuffed in a lot of ways. Like last years inning limits, which I still think a lot of the staff has this year. Thank god we didn't tell the rest of the league this year what the limits were. Last year was a disaster, all teams had to do was chip away at the young guys, knowing they'd get into our pen before the 4th inning. Joe Torre would have done a better job, and he was availbe and ready to sign a two year deal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Since we a proposing trades all willynilly like I say Posada, Swisher and Matsui for Mauer and Morneu. Done. I'd trade those guys for Mauer alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Joe Torre would have done a better job, and he was availbe and ready to sign a two year deal..... The AL East was never this strong under Torre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The AL East was never this strong under Torre. no? I guess the Orioles sucked in the 90's. Torre would have done just fine....I can't understand Yankee fans who downplay Torre as a manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbro22 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Joe Torre would have done a better job, and he was availbe and ready to sign a two year deal..... I knew that would come up. I feel like its a whole different arguement. Knowing the Yankees were done with Torre, from the candidate available I don't know who could be doing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I knew that would come up. I feel like its a whole different arguement. Knowing the Yankees were done with Torre, from the candidate available I don't know who could be doing better. I know what you were getting at, I just couldn't resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 no? I guess the Orioles sucked in the 90's. Torre would have done just fine....I can't understand Yankee fans who downplay Torre as a manager Im not downplaying Torre at all. I loved Joe...but it was time to move on. Lets not act like the 2004 teams and on did anything. Torre never dealt with the division this stacked. The Rays, Sox and Yankees are 3 of the top 5 teams in the MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Im not downplaying Torre at all. I loved Joe...but it was time to move on. Lets not act like the 2004 teams and on did anything. Torre never dealt with the division this stacked. the first 8 years don't count? How can you say it was time to move on when the Yankees never missed the playoffs under Torre, but the first year under a new manager, they do? Torre may or may not have made the playoffs in 2008, but dismissing him as manager may be the biggest mistake this team has done in the last 15 or so years.... Torre had this team figured out, and players responded to him, and they respected him. I don't know if they do that with the current manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Im not downplaying Torre at all. I loved Joe...but it was time to move on. Lets not act like the 2004 teams and on did anything. Torre never dealt with the division this stacked. The Rays, Sox and Yankees are 3 of the top 5 teams in the MLB. Everyone seems to be forgetting this. When he was gone after the '07 season, I thought it was the right time as well. Good post Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 the first 8 years don't count? How can you say it was time to move on when the Yankees never missed the playoffs under Torre, but the first year under a new manager, they do? Torre may or may not have made the playoffs in 2008, but dismissing him as manager may be the biggest mistake this team has done in the last 15 or so years.... Torre had this team figured out, and players responded to him, and they respected him. I don't know if they do that with the current manager. . The Yankees are playing pretty good baseball right now. Its not like they were awful last season either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And me saying it was time to move on doesnt mean I think Girardi is the right guy for the job. Lets see how this year plays out and then judge. The team is playing solid baseball right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The AL East was never this strong under Torre. Boston won the wildcard five years and the division once during the Torre era. The division might not have been strong from top to bottom, but the second bet team in the league was in the same division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 . The Yankees are playing pretty good baseball right now. Its not like they were awful last season either. we will see, but under the assumption that Torre was let go because of his failure to bring a world series to the Bronx, again, last year was then a disaster. I mean, if Torre was a disappointment over the last few years of his Yankee tenure, then how can 2008 be considered anything but lousy? Torre was able to get this team to overcome some horrible late starts, some involving injuries and piss poor pitching. Now does Torre get a free pass for what went wrong with the Yankees, of course not, but to my knowledge, what Torre accomplished with the Yankees from 1996-2007 is among one of the greatest runs in MLB history. The Yankees need to suffer a few seasons without post-season play in order for Yankee fans to truly appreciate what he did. Think of the pitching moves this team made and how bad the pitchers were from 2003-2007, the Browns, Wrights, Heredias, Whites, Gordons, Loizas, etc, etc..I could go on forever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm not going to say anything bad about Girardi right now, only because we won, but I was pissed when the moron took Hughes out, and brought Bruney in for the 8th.It was the kind of stupidity that made Torre lose his job. The pitcher is mowing down a lineup with no problem;stick with him, and stop obsessing over 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, "roles" and all that nonsense. You have a division to win. if a pitcher is going great like Hughes, DON'T FVKC WITH IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Torre was offered more money to manage the Yankees for 1 year, 2008, than he took from the Dodgers. Yes, it was a salary cut,yes, it was only 1 year, but he hadn't won anything in some time. And since 2001 the Yankees underachieved under him, and he was regularly outmanaged in the postseason. And as per Torre's own very dumb statements, the postseason is a "crapshoot". I play craps regularly; it's not a game of chance as much as it is odds, risk management and money management. And in that sense Torre in every postseason after 2001 mismanaged the assets given to him, and was beaten by people who did better jobs with lesser assets. But if you accept Torre's stupid analysis-it's all random in the postseason- why overpay Joe Torre if the psotseason is random? If it truly random, anyone could do as good a job in the postseason as Joe Torre. In fact, his premise is that the manager ultimately doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Torre was offered more money to manage the Yankees for 1 year, 2008, than he took from the Dodgers. Yes, it was a salary cut,yes, it was only 1 year, but he hadn't won anything in some time. And since 2001 the Yankees underachieved under him, and he was regularly outmanaged in the postseason. And as per Torre's own very dumb statements, the postseason is a "crapshoot". I play craps regularly; it's not a game of chance as much as it is odds, risk management and money management. And in that sense Torre in every postseason after 2001 mismanaged the assets given to him, and was beaten by people who did better jobs with lesser assets. But if you accept Torre's stupid analysis-it's all random in the postseason- why overpay Joe Torre if the psotseason is random? If it truly random, anyone could do as good a job in the postseason as Joe Torre. In fact, his premise is that the manager ultimately doesn't really matter. that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard...and for some reason, the accepted use of the term "it is a crap shoot" really has nothing to do with craps the game. Saying "it is a crap shoot" is just another way to say "rolling the dice" or "anything can happen" How did Torre mismanage David Wells in 2003 asking to leave a game with a bad back? Did he give Giambi his "parasite"? Jeez, I mean, seriously, did Joe f up some aspects of the game, of course, but did the Yankees win despite Joe, was he some sort of drag on the team where they reached the post-season somehow on their own despite Joe's lack of skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard...and for some reason, the accepted use of the term "it is a crap shoot" really has nothing to do with craps the game. Saying "it is a crap shoot" is just another way to say "rolling the dice" or "anything can happen" How did Torre mismanage David Wells in 2003 asking to leave a game with a bad back? Did he give Giambi his "parasite"? Jeez, I mean, seriously, did Joe f up some aspects of the game, of course, but did the Yankees win despite Joe, was he some sort of drag on the team where they reached the post-season somehow on their own despite Joe's lack of skill? Bringing in Weaver instead of Mo in 2003? Does 2004-not bunting on Ol'Bloody Sock, or failing to run on Wakefield-ring and bells?Blowing a 3-0 lead? Have Mike Scioscia, Jack McKeon, Terry Francona, Eric Wedge and Jim Leyland steal his lunch every "crapshoot"? One variable consistent in each was dumb managing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bringing in Weaver instead of Mo in 2003? Does 2004-not bunting on Ol'Bloody Sock, or failing to run on Wakefield-ring and bells?Blowing a 3-0 lead? Have Mike Scioscia, Jack McKeon, Terry Francona, Eric Wedge and Jim Leyland steal his lunch every "crapshoot"? One variable consistent in each was dumb managing. ok, but with each of these instances you also have him beating the Twins, having the balls to pitch Mo three innings in 2003, the Yanks were in the playoffs 7 times since their last world series victory and were bounced in the first round three of those 7 post seasons. At some point the man deserves credit as much as he deserves blame. To tell me his Yankee career is defined by not bunting or bringing Mo into a tie game on the road, something no manager does, but when Torre doesn't do it he becomes a pariah? Seriously? Did Torre make mistake, sure, but the return on Torre's investment for franchise and fans alike was much more than the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 We send Girardi to Boston for Terry Francona. Straight up. Why would we want a manager who blew a 9-run lead to Baltimore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otter Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Torre was offered more money to manage the Yankees for 1 year, 2008, than he took from the Dodgers. Yes, it was a salary cut,yes, it was only 1 year, but he hadn't won anything in some time. And since 2001 the Yankees underachieved under him, and he was regularly outmanaged in the postseason. You bring up a great point. The Yankees didn't fire or dismiss Torre. They offered him a contract, albeit a paycut, but still he would have been the highest paid manager in baseball. Torre walked away from it. I love Torre. He was a great manager who led to the team to greatness. However, it was probably time for him to go. He had several terrible postseasons in a row. Yes, not all of it was his fault. Cashman deserves a big part of the blame. That's why the Yanks should have cleaned house after Torre left. I liked the hiring of Girardi when it was made. He still has time to turn things around, but right now, I think he is a below average manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Why would we want a manager who blew a 9-run lead to Baltimore? Sometimes you just can't help that stuff. Yanks won last night despite bad managing. Something that has happened too many times this year. Robot Joe is set in his ways. 8th Inning, bring in Bruney no matter what. Just another example, last night, of him completely F'ing **** up. Francona would have left Hughes in, no doubt in my mind. And if anyone doubts that Francona is the better manager, that person needs to watch more baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS17 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 You bring up a great point. The Yankees didn't fire or dismiss Torre. They offered him a contract, albeit a paycut, but still he would have been the highest paid manager in baseball. Torre walked away from it. I love Torre. He was a great manager who led to the team to greatness. However, it was probably time for him to go. He had several terrible postseasons in a row. Yes, not all of it was his fault. Cashman deserves a big part of the blame. That's why the Yanks should have cleaned house after Torre left. I liked the hiring of Girardi when it was made. He still has time to turn things around, but right now, I think he is a below average manager . BINGO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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