The Oil Spill

[Biggs]

You must believe in the "georgia guidestones" way of life. Very dangerous.

I don't believe approve or disapprove of any particular way of life. What I do know is people for the most part get up in the morning and work hard to improve their life and the life of their loved ones. In order to do that they need to accumulate, food, housing, clean water, and a variety of other things that fit into a variety of categories some are absolute needs some not but most of it is limited by nothing other than our imagination and current technology.

I don't buy into the idea that human nature is going to change much. At some point if human nature becomes counterproductive to human survival I suspect we will go the way of many other species. We may go the route of many other species because of a random act of nature, a pandemic, simple carelessness on a grand scale or even petty disputes over religion or economics that get out of hand?

Man has done a pretty good job of balancing our accumulation of resources and tempering it by killing ourselves off in massive numbers through war, famine or plague at critical times. I suspect we will continue to accumulate stuff and kill ourselves off in large enough numbers to allow the cycle to continue for several more generations? Hopefully we won

[villain_the_foe]

I guess I missed the example of the working passenger car that runs on water that proves it can be done and then proves me wrong. All I saw was a one man dune buggy.

And, weight and torque are basic physics. If they're irrelevant, then I guess you should be able to run your 5 passenger sedan on the same Double AA batteries that you can run a remote control car on.

Again, these simple things are apparently lost on you.

So you mean to tell Boozer and myself that Torque and weight physics will dictate weather hydrogen can power the car?

Didnt you see the first video that I put up? the gentleman was driving a regular car. A REGULAR CAR. I guess you did missed it.

You are wrong EY. Give it up, no need for me to say that I poliowned you again or any of that, Boozer and I simply enlightened you...thats all. Stop fighting the truth with mentos and coke.

[villain_the_foe]

I don't believe approve or disapprove of any particular way of life. What I do know is people for the most part get up in the morning and work hard to improve their life and the life of their loved ones. In order to do that they need to accumulate, food, housing, clean water, and a variety of other things that fit into a variety of categories some are absolute needs some not but most of it is limited by nothing other than our imagination and current technology.

I don't buy into the idea that human nature is going to change much. At some point if human nature becomes counterproductive to human survival I suspect we will go the way of many other species. We may go the route of many other species because of a random act of nature, a pandemic, simple carelessness on a grand scale or even petty disputes over religion or economics that get out of hand?

Man has done a pretty good job of balancing our accumulation of resources and tempering it by killing ourselves off in massive numbers through war, famine or plague at critical times. I suspect we will continue to accumulate stuff and kill ourselves off in large enough numbers to allow the cycle to continue for several more generations? Hopefully we won

[ZachEY]

So you mean to tell Boozer and myself that Torque and weight physics will dictate weather hydrogen can power the car?

Actually, yes, that's exactly what I mean to tell you. Because, that's how physics works.

Didnt you see the first video that I put up? the gentleman was driving a regular car. A REGULAR CAR.

In the first video, it was not fully powered by hydrogen. It was a hybrid. I'm also not saying that it's impossible to power a car via hydrogen. I'm saying the cost and infrastructure is still not there to make it a viable consumer product. That video also involved no demonstrations of the cars power. Does his car go over 40mph? How fast does it go 0-60. How much does it cost? (because it's different than the $1,500 dune buggy)

You are wrong EY. Give it up, no need for me to say that I poliowned you again or any of that, Boozer and I simply enlightened you...thats all. Stop fighting the truth with mentos and coke.

As soon as I see a hydrogen car that the average consumer can afford, posted in this thread, I'll be wrong. The 'big corporations' don't want you to drive a fully electric car, and yet I have that option if I want to buy one. Where can I get this car that proves me wrong? Where?

[villain_the_foe]

Actually, yes, that's exactly what I mean to tell you. Because, that's how physics works.

In the first video, it was not fully powered by hydrogen. It was a hybrid. I'm also not saying that it's impossible to power a car via hydrogen. I'm saying the cost and infrastructure is still not there to make it a viable consumer product. That video also involved no demonstrations of the cars power. Does his car go over 40mph? How fast does it go 0-60. How much does it cost? (because it's different than the $1,500 dune buggy)

As soon as I see a hydrogen car that the average consumer can afford, posted in this thread, I'll be wrong. The 'big corporations' don't want you to drive a fully electric car, and yet I have that option if I want to buy one. Where can I get this car that proves me wrong? Where?

Instead of me going through all the stupidity, I think you should relisten to the video. The $1,500 dollar price wasnt the price on the dune buggy, it was the price that it would take to incorporate the fixtures on a commercial car.

Quote: "He's perfecting a WATER FUEL CELL FOR CARS that will cost around $1,500".

Im really done this time.

[Greenranger]

That's a dune buggy. Where's the final product?

That is a dune buggy and it is the final product. The guy wound up getting sued over conning some investors out of money and it was exposed in court that he didn't discover anything new, like he had claimed. If it had worked the way he said it did then that would violate both the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

[villain_the_foe]

That is a dune buggy and it is the final product. The guy wound up getting sued over conning some investors out of money and it was exposed in court that he didn't discover anything new, like he had claimed. If it had worked the way he said it did then that would violate both the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

Wow, I didnt know that.

How about Denny Klein then?

Wait, is that a commercial car?

[Vicious89x]

Wow, I didnt know that.

How about Denny Klein then?

Wait, is that a commercial car?

That runs on part gas.

[ZachEY]

Instead of me going through all the stupidity, I think you should relisten to the video. The $1,500 dollar price wasnt the price on the dune buggy, it was the price that it would take to incorporate the fixtures on a commercial car.

And yet, it was never done. We need to ask ourselves why?

And I didn't make the mentos and coke comment.

You know what else is funny, i typed Danny Klein (the guy from video 1) into my search bar, and there first suggestion I get is Danny Klein hoax.

It seems his HHO gas has never been duplicated in a lab setting, nor has he ever allowed any outside verification or testing of his product. Hmmmmm.

[ZachEY]

Wow, I didnt know that.

How about Denny Klein then?

Wait, is that a commercial car?

And how much does that vehicle cost to produce, and how fast does it go?

Same questions until you have actual answers.

[faba]

People including myself area addicted to using resources and energy-until there is change of mindset in the population no dramatic change will happen - my own opinion.

[JohnnyHector]

So you mean to tell Boozer and myself that Torque and weight physics will dictate weather hydrogen can power the car?

Now that I went back to watch the video to see what he was claiming, what I will tell you is that it is not possible to split water into hydrogen and oxygen using less energy than is generated by burning the output. The result would be a perpetual energy machine, which violates the first law of thermodynamics...

If this man was able to do what he claims, he would have won a Nobel prize instead of starring in a piece run by some cheesy affiliate and the subsequent YouTube video.

[villain_the_foe]

That runs on part gas.

Its a hybrid yes, but that doesnt mean that it runs on gas AND hydrogen at the same time. It simply means that it can use both forms of fuel.

Kinda like what electric cars do. You can run out of gas and run on electric until your electric cell dies out.

I know what a hybrid is.

[ZachEY]

That is a dune buggy and it is the final product. The guy wound up getting sued over conning some investors out of money and it was exposed in court that he didn't discover anything new, like he had claimed. If it had worked the way he said it did then that would violate both the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

It's really amazing that everyone Villian uses for evidence is usually finding themselves in legal trouble or getting exposed in some kind of hoax.

Never do we see reputable sources.

[villain_the_foe]

Now that I went back to watch the video to see what he was claiming, what I will tell you is that it is not possible to split water into hydrogen and oxygen using less energy than is generated by burning the output. The result would be a perpetual energy machine, which violates the first law of thermodynamics...

If this man was able to do what he claims, he would have won a Nobel prize instead of starring in a piece run by some cheesy affiliate and the subsequent YouTube video.

Nobel prizes doesnt mean that all of a sudden its possible. I remember when flying was impossible. I can recall when people thought the world was flat.

And what it isnt is a cheezy youtube video. What it is is a recording from a local news broadcast that was PUT on youtube.

[villain_the_foe]

And yet, it was never done. We need to ask ourselves why?

And I didn't make the mentos and coke comment.

You know what else is funny, i typed Danny Klein (the guy from video 1) into my search bar, and there first suggestion I get is Danny Klein hoax.

It seems his HHO gas has never been duplicated in a lab setting, nor has he ever allowed any outside verification or testing of his product. Hmmmmm.

I know you didnt make the coke comment. I was being indirect. Thats what I tend to do to people tend to be indirect with me.

[ZachEY]

Now that I went back to watch the video to see what he was claiming, what I will tell you is that it is not possible to split water into hydrogen and oxygen using less energy than is generated by burning the output. The result would be a perpetual energy machine, which violates the first law of thermodynamics...

If this man was able to do what he claims, he would have won a Nobel prize instead of starring in a piece run by some cheesy affiliate and the subsequent YouTube video.

I'd say well struck. But perpetual motion is also possible, the government is just trying to keep it down.

Seriously, did you not watch IRONMAN 2?

[villain_the_foe]

It's really amazing that everyone Villian uses for evidence is usually finding themselves in legal trouble or getting exposed in some kind of hoax.

Never do we see reputable sources.

And at the end of the day it seems like these people end up being right all along. It is amazing isnt it.

Let me do what I actually said. It was proven, claims of court hasnt proved that the technology was false and IF IT DOES STATE THAT PLEASE PROVIDE. I will make sure to say that I was wrong.

[ZachEY]

I know you didnt make the coke comment. I was being indirect. Thats what I tend to do to people tend to be indirect with me.

I'll give you a comment to play with. Since physics is irrelevant to you...

Why can I make an airplane out of paper, but it can't hold any passengers?

[Biggs]

Not sure you got the point of my post. Water is not an unlimited resource. It is also something that is absolutely crucial to sustaining life. If we run out of oil then we as society simply figure out a new way to power our systems or at the very worst go back to the old days without power at all. But we still survive because we have the basic elements. If we run out of water, we die. On paper, using 4 oz of water to go 100 miles looks awesome as hell. Multiply if by every car in the world going an average of 5000 miles a year, it starts to look like a whole lot more water. Add in the possibility of using water to power electricity, heat, etc... you see where I'm going?

Great point sorry I missed that.

If we can figure out how to run our cars on 4OZ of oil fouled salt water we might be able to drive for a few more generations.

[JohnnyHector]

Nobel prizes doesnt mean that all of a sudden its possible. I remember when flying was impossible. I can recall when people thought the world was flat.

You can recall? Was this in a past life?

This video surfaced over 4 years ago. If this man was able to actually create free energy, do you not think that it would have been verified by now?

And what it isnt is a cheezy youtube video. What it is is a recording from a local news broadcast that was PUT on youtube.

Hence why I said "affiliate", by which I meant a podunk local news station.

[ZachEY]

And at the end of the day it seems like these people end up being right all along. It is amazing isnt it.

They're only correct to people who don't believe in physics.

[villain_the_foe]

They're only correct to people who don't believe in physics.

Physics is only as linear as the imformation that you possess. Ask your LIU professor.

[Greenranger]

That runs on part gas.

Yeah, but also the Oxyhydrogen process that allows the process to work does not save fuel. You would have to add a electrolysis unit to the car to have it run like that, and the amount of force required to turn the alternator depends strictly on the electrical resistance of the circuits it's supplying. If an electrolysis unit is added to a car, the amps it draws from the car's electrical system will make the alternator harder to turn, which will put additional drag on the engine, using more fuel to maintain the same RPM in the process.

[Vicious89x]

Yeah, but also the Oxyhydrogen process that allows the process to work does not save fuel. You would have to add a electrolysis unit to the car to have it run like that, and the amount of force required to turn the alternator depends strictly on the electrical resistance of the circuits it's supplying. If an electrolysis unit is added to a car, the amps it draws from the car's electrical system will make the alternator harder to turn, which will put additional drag on the engine, using more fuel to maintain the same RPM in the process.

Something similar to this? I just typed in his name to snopes and found a thread there. I'm not a science major nor do I pretend to be.

But H-H-anything isn't going to cut it; you're completely right there. *Maybe* there exists some super-excited water state, but nothing that's going to exist long enough to undergo a chemical interaction.

OP has little to do with chemistry and a lot to do with marketing in preparation for an IPO for a company that doesn't actually have any value.

Oh, hell, some math:

http://www.rai.com.ro/rai_desc.html

quote:

Generates 1500 liters (53 cubic feet) of New gas per hour

Consumes about 5kw/h

Operates at 20 Amps and 220/240 VAC

kw/h is energy, not power. At those amps and voltage it's pulling 5 kW.

1500 l = 67 moles gas

Assuming total hydrolysis, 2/3 of the molecules are H2 so

45 moles H2

90 g H2 per hour produced

Enthalpy of hydrolysis is 39 W-h/g hydrogen.

= 3510 W required to form H2 from water at this output rate

= 3510 W is the max amount of energy you can get back when you burn the stuff. In an ICE, you'll get more like 35% of that, 1230 W.

But the page claims 5000 W is required input.

So basically, you use 5 kW (6.7 hp) to gain 1.2 kW (1.6 hp) using a really old and obvious piece of technology.

Hooray!

[ZachEY]

Physics is only as linear as the imformation that you possess. Ask your LIU professor.

I will ask my LIU professor something about paranoid personality disorder.

[JohnnyHector]

Yeah, but also the Oxyhydrogen process that allows the process to work does not save fuel. You would have to add a electrolysis unit to the car to have it run like that, and the amount of force required to turn the alternator depends strictly on the electrical resistance of the circuits it's supplying. If an electrolysis unit is added to a car, the amps it draws from the car's electrical system will make the alternator harder to turn, which will put additional drag on the engine, using more fuel to maintain the same RPM in the process.

But, but.... he says on YouTube that it works!

[villain_the_foe]

I will ask my LIU professor about something paranoid personality disorder.

When you do that, also ask him about the linear path of close mindedness and ass backwardness.

Do me a favor. Show me the information of that court case. Lets see what the verdict was and if it related to the technology being a farse.

Because honestly, for the Pentagon and the british government not to pick up on this yet some "investor" did seems kinda ridiculous if you ask me. This sounds like more of a "patent" issue to me than anything else.

I'd love to see how the pentagon/Brits missed out on that one.

Please, show me. I'd love to be wrong right about now. I'll be back in about a half hour. Hopefully I'll come back to some information that could enlighten me outside of general opinion about paranoia. .

[JohnnyHector]

[Greenranger]

But, but.... he says on YouTube that it works!

Well if it was on you tube...

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" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[ZachEY]

I raise.

[JohnnyHector]

Please, show me. I'd love to be wrong right about now. I'll be back in about a half hour. Hopefully I'll come back to some information that could enlighten me outside of general opinion about paranoia. .

Swing by Barnes and Noble and grab a copy of this...

On second thought, you'd better start with this one:

[villain_the_foe]

Swing by Barnes and Noble and grab a copy of this...

On second thought, you'd better start with this one:

Is the information in the court case in those books?

Na bro, try again. Show me the information of this case. Lets understand what happened in that case since "all of a sudden" its like he's unbelieveable now. Pull up the case so we can all go through it and I PROMISE YOU that if Im wrong I will say that I was wrong and I was led astray.

P.S. Atleast you put up some books that could be informative instead of cartoons and expect people to think you're right because you're trying to be funny.

I need the case that was spoke of earlier.

[Boozer76]

I remember when flying was impossible. I can recall when people thought the world was flat.

Damn dude, wtf are we worrying about alternative fuels for, you've clearly found the secret to eternal life!

[Vicious89x]

Lawsuit

In 1996, inventor Stanley Meyer was sued by two investors to whom he had sold dealerships, offering the right to do business in Water Fuel Cell technology. His car was due to be examined by the expert witness Michael Laughton, Professor of Electrical Engineering at Queen Mary, University of London and Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering. However, Meyer made what Professor Laughton considered a "lame excuse" on the days of examination and did not allow the test to proceed.[3] According to Meyer the technology was patent pending and under investigation by the patent office, the Department of Energy and the military.[14] His "water fuel cell" was later examined by three expert witnesses in court who found that there "was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and that it was simply using conventional electrolysis". The court found Meyer guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered him to repay the two investors their $25,000.[3]