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Josh Freeman

JustInFudge

By JustInFudge
in NY Jets Forum

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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No problem. Tampa faced Pitt early in the year, with a healthy Troy P and Eason. They lost but Freeman despite only 50 yards on the ground was 20-31 64.5% 184 yrds, I INT.

Sanchez was 19-29, 65%, 170, O INT.

Pretty identical.

That was fun...lets compare alike team stats...for Freeman on a much worse team than Sanchez. We alreay did Pitt.

Clev

JF - 17-28, 60%, 182, 2 TD, 1 INT

MS - 27-44, 61%, 299 (ot), 2 TD, 1 INT

CIN

JF - 20-33, 60%, 280, 1 TD, I INT

MS - 16-28, 57, 166, 1 TD, 1 INT

BALT

JF - 17-37, 45%, 162, 1 TD, 0 INT

MS - 10-21, 47%, 74, 0 TD, 0 INT

DET

JF - 21-32, 251, 65%, 1 TD, 0 INT

MS - 22-39, 56%, 336 (OT), 1 TD, 1 INT

Pretty identical with a lot less talent on a much worse team.

So Sanchez was better against Cleveland, about the same against Cincy and Baltimore and worse against Detroit but he led his team on a late comeback during which he was I think 11 for 12 and won the game on the road while Stafford started and played all but one series while Freeman lost to them at home with Drew Stanton starting for the Lions.

Wow.

I love how you want to have it both ways. Whenever Freeman loses it's his crappy teammates letting him down and whenever he wins its him lifting them up and making play better through the sheer force of his will but for Sanchez its the exact opposite.

You sound like Joe Theismann.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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That's kind of how the Patriots win ball games.

Tom Brady

If the Jets lost to Pittsburgh, it would be deemed a collapse.

Guess what?

THEY DIDN'T!

Come off that jaded ledge, brother.

If the Jets didnt have the playoffs, that Pitt win would be the quintessential SOJ win stuck in the middle of the late season collapse.

Woulda-coulda-shoulda is so dumb. Especially after you first push for how great Henne is, then he has a crappy season, and then you choose Freeman as your QB to champion.

If Freeman has a bad year next year whose the QB you're going to be championing then?

I was wrong about Henne. He's bad at Football.

FTW.

JiF didn't like Sanchez coming out of college (truth be told, neither did I) and he made up his mind right then and there that anything short of near perfection would doom Sanchez to JAG status forever in his mind.

Last year and into this year he was on the Chad Henne bandwagon and now that he would look moronic championing Henne he searches for another guy to pump up and Freeman fits the bill.

If Stafford were healthy, JiF would probably be bitching that we should have done whatever it took to trade up to number one last year. :rolleyes:

I wanted us to trade everything for Stafford and if the kid was healthy, he'd be the best of the bunch. I wanted nothing to do with Sanchez, and so far, I'd say my expectations of him have been accurate...he's actually impressed me more than I'd like to admit, but its still very apparent, you've seen what you are going to see from Sanchez. And that sucks, when you could have had a guy like Freeman who is just getting started.

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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Tom Brady

If the Jets didnt have the playoffs, that Pitt win would be the quintessential SOJ win stuck in the middle of the late season collapse.

I was wrong about Henne. He's bad at Football.

I wanted us to trade everything for Stafford and if the kid was healthy, he'd be the best of the bunch. I wanted nothing to do with Sanchez, and so far, I'd say my expectations of him have been accurate...he's actually impressed me more than I'd like to admit, but its still very apparent, you've seen what you are going to see from Sanchez. And that sucks, when you could have had a guy like Freeman who is just getting started.

Or.... you could remove your head from your a$$ and wake up to the fact that Sanchez has just scratched the surface.

Ok Mr. Theismann?

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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And you conveniently leave out the fact sanchez scored a TD on 4and1.

SHOCKER!!!!!!!!

I was just showing passing stats...not situational stats or running stats.

The Jets "talent" has been pretty overrated. Tomlinson and Greene havent exactly provided much help this season. Cothcery and Keller cant catch. Holmes has dropped two touchdowns. Braylon doesnt know how to run a route. Schotty stinks etc...

First you compare Tom Brady to Mark Sanchez and now you are comparing the Jets offensive talent vs. the Bucs?

Must suck to be Jif.

He is going to be rooting against his QB for the next 10+ years.

I'm not rooting against him. I hope he brings us a title and proves me wrong. But watching my team collapse again at the end of the season isnt fun...its obvious to see the kid is very limited.

So Sanchez was better against Cleveland, about the same against Cincy and Baltimore and worse against Detroit but he led his team on a late comeback during which he was I think 11 for 12 and won the game on the road while Stafford started and played all but one series while Freeman lost to them at home with Drew Stanton starting for the Lions.

Wow.

I love how you want to have it both ways. Whenever Freeman loses it's his crappy teammates letting him down and whenever he wins its him lifting them up and making play better through the sheer force of his will but for Sanchez its the exact opposite.

You sound like Joe Theismann.

Those comebacks were cute and get everyone all fired up...but they are over. Chicago and Miami showed you that...the late season collapse showed you that.

Josh Freeman carry's that Football team. Mark Sanchez carry's his boyfriends purse.

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Matt39

Matt39

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I was just showing passing stats...not situational stats or running stats.

First you compare Tom Brady to Mark Sanchez and now you are comparing the Jets offensive talent vs. the Bucs?

I'm not rooting against him. I hope he brings us a title and proves me wrong. But watching my team collapse again at the end of the season isnt fun...its obvious to see the kid is very limited.

Those comebacks were cute and get everyone all fired up...but they are over. Chicago and Miami showed you that...the late season collapse showed you that.

Josh Freeman carry's that Football team. Mark Sanchez carry's his boyfriends purse.

I did neither of those things.

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Matt39

Matt39

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The team just made the playoffs — they didn't collapse.

Quit bitching.

Pretty much. Its not like guys on our offense are making plays by themselves either. We have zero long runs from scrimmage. Holmes has one nice catch ad run vs the Texans. That's it. Zero big plays...other than ones made by Sanchez down the field.

How the hell has this team won 10 games? Someone must have done something.

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SMC

SMC

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I'd have a much harder time believing that there are two people who don't know the difference between either and both if one of them wasn't you.

Eli's first 3 seasons weren't better than average (including his 1st). You tried to qualify your original statement by excluding the first year.

Yes. No. sh*t, I dunno. What's good? What's bad? The problem with using these numbers isn't that they're better or worse than FO metrics, it's that they're uncontextualized so they're even harder to relate to blanket labels. And yeah, even if I am limited to this crap, that right there is average. I mean, he did throw 24 touchdowns, less than only three guys that year and more by half than Sanchez has thrown in either of his two seasons while completing an equally sh*tty percentage of his passes.

Oh, so TDs solely mad Eli average those years although all his other stats put him in the bottom third? Gotcha.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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The team just made the playoffs — they didn't collapse.

Quit bitching.

They absolutely collapsed. Dont know how anyone could say different. Losing your last 3 of 4 games down the stretch in December is collapsing. Sorry to break it to you.

Three years from now you will be gladly telling me how wrong you were.

I hope you are right.

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DireJet38

DireJet38

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Pretty much. Its not like guys on our offense are making plays by themselves either. We have zero long runs from scrimmage. Holmes has one nice catch ad run vs the Texans. That's it. Zero big plays...other than ones made by Sanchez down the field.

How the hell has this team won 10 games? Someone must have done something.

The Jets are 8-1 when Sanchez has thrown a TD pass.

But the Jets winning has nothing to do with the quarterback, right?

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DireJet38

DireJet38

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They absolutely collapsed. Dont know how anyone could say different. Losing your last 3 of 4 games down the stretch in December is collapsing. Sorry to break it to you.

You are living in a sad world, man.

Last I checked, the Jets punched their ticket to the postseason in Pittsburgh.

Did you miss that game?

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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You are living in a sad world, man.

Last I checked, the Jets punched their ticket to the postseason in Pittsburgh.

Did you miss that game?

Yeah, the Jets made the playoffs but to suggest they haven't collapsed is a little homerriffic.

Four weeks ago, they were tied with the Pats and the Falcons for the best record in the NFL and now they just clinched the 6 seed on a loss. That's a bit of a collapse.

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SMC

SMC

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Unfortunately, I'm afraid Sanchez has shown you the whole thing my friend...the whole thing.

I'm surprised that besides in the Atenverse, that people would be believe that 2 yrs is all it takes to decide what a young QBs ceiling is.

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DireJet38

DireJet38

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Yeah, the Jets made the playoffs but to suggest they haven't collapsed is a little homerriffic.

Four weeks ago, they were tied with the Pats and the Falcons for the best record in the NFL and now they just clinched the 6 seed on a loss. That's a bit of a collapse.

Or, rather, an evening out of sorts.

The Jets were never as good as their 9-2 record.

Considering we were given multiple miracles along the way, I think everyone can agree on that.

We lost to the NFC-N champs, the best team in the league and a bitter rival.

Two of those losses came by a combined seven points.

And who hasn't been blown out by the Pats during the second half of the season?

Also, I know everyone likes to hammer the negatives, but we beat the AFC-N champs (a team that has won 2 Super Bowls this decade) in THEIR building.

If you look at it realistically, this isn't a collapse — at all. This is where the Jets — and, in a greater sense, the NFL — is at.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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You are living in a sad world, man.

Last I checked, the Jets punched their ticket to the postseason in Pittsburgh.

Did you miss that game?

I dont live in a sad world. I live in a very happy world. Just because I'm not a blind homer doesnt mean I'm not a fan. I'm happy for the Jets and the playoffs...but very pissed that they've had a late season collapse...again. It doesnt give me the best feeling headed into the playoffs. Sorry.

I'm surprised that besides in the Atenverse, that people would be believe that 2 yrs is all it takes to decide what a young QBs ceiling is.

What has he shown you that suggest he's got a higher ceiling than what we are currently seeing?

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Aten

Aten

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Eli's first 3 seasons weren't better than average (including his 1st). You tried to qualify your original statement by excluding the first year.

No. I didn't need to qualify the original statement because the second season is one of the first two irrespective of anything else.

Oh, so TDs solely mad Eli average those years although all his other stats put him in the bottom third? Gotcha.

If I'm restricted to your numbers, which as I said aren't much of a basis for even such vague classifications as average, then yeah, it's pretty much the touchdowns. I'd mention that he ranked 9th in DYAR and 17th in DVOA but that would be pointless. Your every response is going to be to point to a few numbers in a vaccum and say 'you call that average?!'

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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Sanchez is coming to the end of his honeymoon period and we still don't know how good he really is or isn't. He plays on a loaded offense that he (along with Schottenheimer) strangles to death. His bad games are horrific and even his best games are pedestrian. None of this is to say that he can't develop further. The real question is, what has he ever shown you that makes you think he'll ever be elite? He's not going to get bigger and his arm isn't getting any stronger. IMO, the best case scenario with Sanchez is that he turns into Jeff Garcia. Garcia was a fine player--scrappy, good game manager, tough--but is that what you all wanted with the fifth overall pick? If you have faith that he's going to be Joe Montana, I'd be curious to hear what you're basing that on other than abstract potential. The guy is what he is.

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SMC

SMC

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What has he shown you that suggest he's got a higher ceiling than what we are currently seeing?

55 seconds left, no timeouts, 72 yds to go, against the Texans. Avoids 2 Mario Williams would be sacks. Throws perfect passes, 1 a 42 yd bomb to Braylon

3 TDs against the Pats in the Meadowlands

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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Sanchez is coming to the end of his honeymoon period and we still don't know how good he really is or isn't. He plays on a loaded offense that he (along with Schottenheimer) strangles to death. His bad games are horrific and even his best games are pedestrian. None of this is to say that he can't develop further. The real question is, what has he ever shown you that makes you think he'll ever be elite? He's not going to get bigger and his arm isn't getting any stronger. IMO, the best case scenario with Sanchez is that he turns into Jeff Garcia. Garcia was a fine player--scrappy, good game manager, tough--but is that what you all wanted with the fifth overall pick? If you have faith that he's going to be Joe Montana, I'd be curious to hear what you're basing that on other than abstract potential. The guy is what he is.

You need to go back and read the last three pages dude.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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55 seconds left, no timeouts, 72 yds to go, against the Texans. Avoids 2 Mario Williams would be sacks. Throws perfect passes, 1 a 42 yd bomb to Braylon

3 TDs against the Pats in the Meadowlands

And Frank Reich had the greatest comeback in NFL history.

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Aten

Aten

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55 seconds left, no timeouts, 72 yds to go, against the Texans. Avoids 2 Mario Williams would be sacks. Throws perfect passes, 1 a 42 yd bomb to Braylon

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/93784-matt-schaub-hospitalized-with-bursa-sac-injury-in-his-knee/page__view__findpost__p__1717542

3 TDs against the Pats in the Meadowlands

http://www.jetnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/94255-breaking-down-the-numbers-jets-vs-patriots-%e2%80%93-part-2-defense/page__view__findpost__p__1728125

FLASHES OF GREATNESS

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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If Keller catches the god damn ball, we don't have to worry about the end-game scenario against the Bears.

And how about that first game against New England?

Does that one not count?

The one with Randy Moss before New England hit it's stride? Yeah it counts, but honestly after getting slaughtered by almost 50 points, kinda hard to feel good about it. How many quarters of football did we go scoreless? Close to the number of dropped passes and touchdowns.

Kellen's dropped sucked. But the recievers turning slants into touchdowns kinda go's his way and balances out.. Not too many teams wouldn't trade receiving corps with us, bet you much less would switch QB's though.

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DireJet38

DireJet38

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The one with Randy Moss before New England hit it's stride? Yeah it counts, but honestly after getting slaughtered by almost 50 points, kinda hard to feel good about it. How many quarters of football did we go scoreless? Close to the number of dropped passes and touchdowns.

Kellen's dropped sucked. But the recievers turning slants into touchdowns kinda go's his way and balances out.. Not too many teams wouldn't trade receiving corps with us, bet you much less would switch QB's though.

How many slants have turned into touchdowns?

One?

Santonio against the Browns?

Actually, I've been disappointed in Santonio's YAC. He was a beast in Pittsburgh breaking away after the catch. Now, all he does is fumble.

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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pew pew pew

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SMC

SMC

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The Texans and Pats pass defense doesn't diminish what Sanchez did. He still had to perform.

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