unprecedented draft bust

[neckdemon]

vernon gholston may be an nfl bust...but in the game of life he came out a huge winner. he managed to make millions of dollars while doing almost nothing to earn that money. i wish i could pull off what gholston has managed to do.

[T0mShane]

Also, I knew Ricky Martin was gay as far back as '92. Shower me with praise for my prescience.

[JohnnyHector]

Also, I knew Ricky Martin was gay as far back as '92. Shower me with praise for my prescience.

Is that a euphemism for gaydar?

[Scott Dierking]

Is that a euphemism for gaydar?

And some type of shower goes along with that?

[#27TheDominator]

Also, I knew Ricky Martin was gay as far back as '92. Shower me with praise for my prescience.

That's not praise!

[Larz]

Last yr I stated on this forum that Gholston could be one of the NFL's biggest draft bust ever due to his total lack of on the field productivity ...However, a few of the resident lames here argued "no it has to be someone like JaMarcus Russell because he was paid so much". What???.. at least Russell had a few decent games, threw a few TDs... Where high draft choice Gholston's NFL career ineptness is histrionically BAD if not worst of all time. Mr. T also has to live with this the rest of his NFL GM career, last yr's draft suck too...Tannenbaum get it together this yr please!

My link

he's no where near the worst ever , not even on the jets, because he he did play in a lot of games at least. he's just the most recent is all

rick terry ring a bell ?

no ? now that is a bust

[Scott Dierking]

he's no where near the worst ever , not even on the jets, because he he did play in a lot of games at least. he's just the most recent is all

rick terry ring a bell ?

no ? now that is a bust

Being drafted in the 2nd round is a lot different than being a top 6 pick

[Larz]

Being drafted in the 2nd round is a lot different than being a top 6 pick

not really since he was the teams first selection that year, and I bet a lot of the young guys here don't even know what position he played or even if it was offense or defense

that's an epic bust

[JohnnyHector]

he's no where near the worst ever , not even on the jets, because he he did play in a lot of games at least. he's just the most recent is all

rick terry ring a bell ?

no ? now that is a bust

Terry is eliminsted from contention for worst ever, just based on the fact that Parcells drafted another DL the following year in the 2nd Round who was equally as useless.

[BroadwayJ667]

Last yr I stated on this forum that Gholston could be one of the NFL's biggest draft bust ever due to his total lack of on the field productivity ...However, a few of the resident lames here argued "no it has to be someone like JaMarcus Russell because he was paid so much". What???.. at least Russell had a few decent games, threw a few TDs... Where high draft choice Gholston's NFL career ineptness is histrionically BAD if not worst of all time. Mr. T also has to live with this the rest of his NFL GM career, last yr's draft suck too...Tannenbaum get it together this yr please!

My link

I have less of a problem with you tooting your own horn about you being right (GFY) My problem is that you say last years draft sucks. Blow a goat dude. They were rookies, there is a reason there is a coaching staff. News flash not everyone is immediately ready to play in the NFL. Especially not on a championship caliber team.

Tanny doesn't have to live with jack. Every GM has made one bad pick, and they will continue to make bad ones.

14-year-olds really make the dumbest arguments.

[jason423]

he's no where near the worst ever , not even on the jets, because he he did play in a lot of games at least. he's just the most recent is all

rick terry ring a bell ?

no ? now that is a bust

When did he play alot of games? The guy couldnt even unlock the easiest of easiest incentives in his contract in his 3 years in the NFL. All he had to do was play in 35% of the snaps as a rookie or 45% of the snaps thereafter to unlock millions in guarantees. Every top pick does it, excpet Gholston. Terry isnt even in the same ballpark. He was a 2nd round pick and not even the top pick of the Jets that year (you have him confused with Dorian Boose who was worse than Terry) and played a little. Gholston is arguably the Jets worst draft pick since the 1970s and maybe ever. Even Lam Jones and Roger Vick were more productive. They at least saw the field as a starter. The Ghost was so bad that he was playing in the 4th quarter of the 4th preseason games. His only positive play of his career was letting Chris Johnson bust free in 2009 and then tracking him down from behind and probably saving a touchdown. Besides that play his highlight reel consists of standing around a pile and clapping for his teammates and practicing putting his helmet on and off on the sidelines.

[drago]

LOL okay.

So against Indy the team couldn't have used the $5M Gholston cost against the cap on a DB worth something? Maybe instead of $3M plus draft picks for Lito Sheppard - who was benched for the game - we end up with an $8M CB opposite Revis. Or a $5-6M CB and a $2-3M nickel back. Oh yeah, and keep our draft picks also. Yeah, probably wouldn't have made a difference. We were just as well off with Sheppard and Strickland and Lowery and Coleman. What was I thinking?

This past year we couldn't have used any of the depth that Gholston's $5-6M ate up. Our backups to Revis and Leonhard were just fine. Rhodes - tool that he was and is - is probably twice the safety as any we fielded in the playoffs.

Maybe we could have done better than the pressure provided by Thomas or Taylor. Hell, with some additional players - useful players - on either offense or defense, maybe we don't drop 2 of those winnable games we lost during the season and we're playing Pittsburgh here instead of there.

Or taken the other way, delete a $5M-ish/year player from Pittsburgh ( and tell me it would have made no difference whatsoever.

It's like you're implying the jets would not have had a pick had they not taken gholston. I remember specifically thinking that DE was a bigger need but Gholston was at the end of the alleged 'big five'. Sedrick Ellis was really the only DE available at our spot and even he wouldn't have helped us win either championship game. Had we traded up, we'd be stuck with McFadden, Dorsey or Chris Long...none of which help us win an AFC title. Had we pulled the trigger to move up high enough to get Ryan, this team's make up is completely changed and there is no assurance of anything.

Gholston sucks...no doubt. But he did not set us back years like Kleck mention; Leaf, Akili or Kajauna did. Had we not picked him, we would have overpaid for Ellis...Who else was there to be picked given the information on draft day?

[Sperm Edwards]

It's like you're implying the jets would not have had a pick had they not taken gholston. I remember specifically thinking that DE was a bigger need but Gholston was at the end of the alleged 'big five'. Sedrick Ellis was really the only DE available at our spot and even he wouldn't have helped us win either championship game. Had we traded up, we'd be stuck with McFadden, Dorsey or Chris Long...none of which help us win an AFC title. Had we pulled the trigger to move up high enough to get Ryan, this team's make up is completely changed and there is no assurance of anything.

Gholston sucks...no doubt. But he did not set us back years like Kleck mention; Leaf, Akili or Kajauna did. Had we not picked him, we would have overpaid for Ellis...Who else was there to be picked given the information on draft day?

So trading down from the #6 spot wasn't an option with Gholston on the board but trading out of the spot a pick later, with the supposedly last "blue chip" draftee in Gholston gone, was doable?

Dorsey was never going to get taken by Mangini. Chris Long as I recall was considered a little to small for DE in a 3-4 (at the NFL level), and a little too slow for OLB, and besides he went 2nd overall. If the Jets traded up to #2 it was clearly going to be to take Ryan. McFadden? Eh. Guy is too brittle though I think the Jets would have taken him if he was there at #6 but weren't trading up for him.

But that wasn't the situation we were in. The point is we picked at #6 and McFadden, Dorsey, Long, Long, and Ryan were gone. The choices were to take Gholston, take someone else at #6, or to trade down. I submit the move was to trade down & wanted to back then.

Passing up on multiple picks (and the far lower contracts those players would have), to draft a player with $20M guaranteed and move him to a brand new position - a different one that made him a top-10 prospect in the first place - is dumb. If it works out then it works out, but that doesn't make it smart. Even less so in a draft that was considered deeper more than top-heavy.

Leaf and Akili were worse because they played the type of positions where you have to hand them the job full-time and see what happens. DE/OLB a player can be eased-in or used situationally. That is why the team didn't crumble. But to say he didn't hurt the team is nonsense. Replace Gholston and his impact-player sized contract for another (or for others) without it, both leaving the possibility of drafting someone productive as well as leaving space for an impact-priced player who would have an impact. This would have made no difference whatsoever? I don't buy it.

[Larz]

When did he play alot of games? The guy couldnt even unlock the easiest of easiest incentives in his contract in his 3 years in the NFL. All he had to do was play in 35% of the snaps as a rookie or 45% of the snaps thereafter to unlock millions in guarantees. Every top pick does it, excpet Gholston. Terry isnt even in the same ballpark. He was a 2nd round pick and not even the top pick of the Jets that year (you have him confused with Dorian Boose who was worse than Terry) and played a little. Gholston is arguably the Jets worst draft pick since the 1970s and maybe ever. Even Lam Jones and Roger Vick were more productive. They at least saw the field as a starter. The Ghost was so bad that he was playing in the 4th quarter of the 4th preseason games. His only positive play of his career was letting Chris Johnson bust free in 2009 and then tracking him down from behind and probably saving a touchdown. Besides that play his highlight reel consists of standing around a pile and clapping for his teammates and practicing putting his helmet on and off on the sidelines.

you're right on boose, I should have used him as my example. the jets have a lot of talent on defense, not cracking that lineup isn't too terrible. If he couldn't play on the 90's teams, yes that would be a lot worse. he did play on specials if I'm not mistaken

I think when you are out of the league in 2 years, you are a bigger bust. I'm not saying the ghost was any kind of player, I just don't rank him as the biggest jets bust of all time, and certainly not the biggest NFL bust of all time

[Larz]

Terry is eliminsted from contention for worst ever, just based on the fact that Parcells drafted another DL the following year in the 2nd Round who was equally as useless.

boose

terry

day

ouch

how many 20 year olds here even know what positions they played ?

talk about ghosts

[Scott Dierking]

you're right on boose, I should have used him as my example. the jets have a lot of talent on defense, not cracking that lineup isn't too terrible. If he couldn't play on the 90's teams, yes that would be a lot worse. he did play on specials if I'm not mistaken

I think when you are out of the league in 2 years, you are a bigger bust. I'm not saying the ghost was any kind of player, I just don't rank him as the biggest jets bust of all time, and certainly not the biggest NFL bust of all time

Yes, the Jets did have talent on defense. The one thing that they were missing-Someone who could hunt down the QB and fight off blocks.

Guess who was brought in, just to do that.

You know what it takes to get after the QB, if you have properly mastered technique and studied film?-Want to, and tenacity. If you at least possess a little of those qualities, you are going to get lucky somewhere along the line.

Gholston obviously lacks intestinal fortitude to succeed as at least a mediocre athlete.

[Larz]

Yes, the Jets did have talent on defense. The one thing that they were missing-Someone who could hunt down the QB and fight off blocks.

Guess who was brought in, just to do that.

You know what it takes to get after the QB, if you have properly mastered technique and studied film?-Want to, and tenacity. If you at least possess a little of those qualities, you are going to get lucky somewhere along the line.

Gholston obviously lacks intestinal fortitude to succeed as at least a mediocre athlete.

agree 100%. that's what is so frustrating, if just played at an average to JAG level, and chipped in say 5 sacks a year, one of those sacks could have won a game which.....aw hell it hurts to think about it.....

[mark6sanchez]

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!! http://nflbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/nflbuzz/source_former_first_rounder_passes_through_waivers/4299037

[drago]

So trading down from the #6 spot wasn't an option with Gholston on the board but trading out of the spot a pick later, with the supposedly last "blue chip" draftee in Gholston gone, was doable?

Dorsey was never going to get taken by Mangini. Chris Long as I recall was considered a little to small for DE in a 3-4 (at the NFL level), and a little too slow for OLB, and besides he went 2nd overall. If the Jets traded up to #2 it was clearly going to be to take Ryan. McFadden? Eh. Guy is too brittle though I think the Jets would have taken him if he was there at #6 but weren't trading up for him.

But that wasn't the situation we were in. The point is we picked at #6 and McFadden, Dorsey, Long, Long, and Ryan were gone. The choices were to take Gholston, take someone else at #6, or to trade down. I submit the move was to trade down & wanted to back then.

Passing up on multiple picks (and the far lower contracts those players would have), to draft a player with $20M guaranteed and move him to a brand new position - a different one that made him a top-10 prospect in the first place - is dumb. If it works out then it works out, but that doesn't make it smart. Even less so in a draft that was considered deeper more than top-heavy.

Leaf and Akili were worse because they played the type of positions where you have to hand them the job full-time and see what happens. DE/OLB a player can be eased-in or used situationally. That is why the team didn't crumble. But to say he didn't hurt the team is nonsense. Replace Gholston and his impact-player sized contract for another (or for others) without it, both leaving the possibility of drafting someone productive as well as leaving space for an impact-priced player who would have an impact. This would have made no difference whatsoever? I don't buy it.

I'm not sure anyone has the balls to say losing out on that pick didn't hurt us but by no means is he even a top 20 bust of all time. The assumption that teams wanted to move up to our pick for Gholston are just that...assumptions. As soon as the 6th pick came and the top five were gone, most people already knew what was going to happen.

Had we traded down, I got the feeling we would have landed Harvey. The whole draft was a bad set up for the Jets because it was Tackle and RB heavy, neither of which the jets seemed to interested in.

Had we moved back and gotten a mid 1st round defender, chances are it wouldn't have been Mayo (he was slated as a late 1st and the jets had already had their fill of a 'smallish' ILB in Vilma)...it could have been: Harvey, Mckelvin, or Rivers.

Obviously Rivers would have been nice but the other two would have sucked just as bad but costed less. Again, this is assuming someone else really wanted to move up to the sixth spot, surrendering a 1st and 2nd in the process. I don't see it. I really don't think any other team would have moved up for him.

In that logic, the only pick i could have seen the Jets doing was Ellis and that would have been considered a major reach on what turned out to be a pretty average to above average player.

In short, Gholston sucks but i didn't see much else the Jets could have done. JMO...

[Larz]

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!! http://nflbuzz.yardb...waivers/4299037

did you really expect someone to pick up his contract ?

[mark6sanchez]

To reiterate my original post: I didn't say I was the 1st to say VG was a bust, I just stated here that he was an "Unprecedented Bust" a player who never showed anything... nothing, Nada, not even a flash of a slight sign he had any talent. Never one single play. Hard to find such a total flop, even Blair Thomas had 2200 yrs ...David Klingler threw 16 TDs ...VG had 2 tackles and fell on 6 others in 3 yrs.

[war ensemble]

Ha. Isn't the description just as bad as the picture. The description makes me think of Conan showing the Jesus Action Figures. They were not a bit. Somebody was actually selling them. Football Jesus. Tae Kwan Do Jesus.

He is wearing sandals to play football and #21 is actually tackling Him.

*Edit to capitalize Him.

Ha, there are a few of those in my school. Jesus the librarian chills in the library, there's a Jesus action figure with loaves of bread and wine that you can attach to his hands. I'm sure there are others.

[Integrity28]

The key to avoiding Vernon Gholston type draft busts going forward? Keep making the playoffs and don't end up with top 10 picks.

Other than that, it is what it is... can't rewrite history.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm not sure anyone has the balls to say losing out on that pick didn't hurt us but by no means is he even a top 20 bust of all time. The assumption that teams wanted to move up to our pick for Gholston are just that...assumptions. As soon as the 6th pick came and the top five were gone, most people already knew what was going to happen.

Had we traded down, I got the feeling we would have landed Harvey. The whole draft was a bad set up for the Jets because it was Tackle and RB heavy, neither of which the jets seemed to interested in.

Had we moved back and gotten a mid 1st round defender, chances are it wouldn't have been Mayo (he was slated as a late 1st and the jets had already had their fill of a 'smallish' ILB in Vilma)...it could have been: Harvey, Mckelvin, or Rivers.

Obviously Rivers would have been nice but the other two would have sucked just as bad but costed less. Again, this is assuming someone else really wanted to move up to the sixth spot, surrendering a 1st and 2nd in the process. I don't see it. I really don't think any other team would have moved up for him.

In that logic, the only pick i could have seen the Jets doing was Ellis and that would have been considered a major reach on what turned out to be a pretty average to above average player.

In short, Gholston sucks but i didn't see much else the Jets could have done. JMO...

We'll just disagree then. Unless you're the 49ers with the #1 pick in 2005 that no one wanted, someone is always willing to move up. Harvey was a dumb pick for the Jaguars because of the idiotic compensation. I would have loved it if we were the team they forked over a later first, 2 thirds, and a 4th with. And that was a worst-case scenario because we had #6 and they gave that up just to move up to #8. Would have meant 4 different draftees instead of 1 Gholston, plus it would have left the cap room to sign another true difference-maker in Gholston's place. Hell, it would have been enough picks that one could have been forked over in '08 for a pick a round higher in '09.

There were options other than drafting a player in the top-10 and then asking him to change positions from the one that made him a top-10 prospect in the first place.

[Larz]

To reiterate my original post: I didn't say I was the 1st to say VG was a bust, I just stated here that he was an "Unprecedented Bust" a player who never showed anything... nothing, Nada, not even a flash of a slight sign he had any talent. Never one single play. Hard to find such a total flop, even Blair Thomas had 2200 yrs ...David Klingler threw 16 TDs ...VG had 2 tackles and fell on 6 others in 3 yrs.

unprecedented would be getting cut his first summer

putting in 3 crappy years is actually very common

[#27TheDominator]

Yes, the Jets did have talent on defense. The one thing that they were missing-Someone who could hunt down the QB and fight off blocks.

Guess who was brought in, just to do that.

You know what it takes to get after the QB, if you have properly mastered technique and studied film?-Want to, and tenacity. If you at least possess a little of those qualities, you are going to get lucky somewhere along the line.

Gholston obviously lacks intestinal fortitude to succeed as at least a mediocre athlete.

All it takes is want to and tenacity, but none of the Jets other high priced front 7 can do it? You said yourself that's what the Jets are missing, but they have Thomas, Pace, Taylor, Scott, Harris, Pryce, and Ellis who are all very high to fairly high priced guys and early draft picks.

Gholston may suck, but it takes a lot more than wanting it to be a good pass rusher.

[4HCrew]

All it takes is want to and tenacity, but none of the Jets other high priced front 7 can do it? You said yourself that's what the Jets are missing, but they have Thomas, Pace, Taylor, Scott, Harris, Pryce, and Ellis who are all very high to fairly high priced guys and early draft picks.

Gholston may suck, but it takes a lot more than wanting it to be a good pass rusher.

the fact that Gholston could barely get on the field for special teams speaks volumes...he just did not have the tenacity to make it in the NFL

[Klecko73isGod]

Where the hell did I defend Gholston? All I said was I didn't think Gholston was the biggest bust in NFL history.

How am I a bigger homer than the people here who need to believe the Jets are the center of universe and thus Gholston was the biggest bust of all time?

[Scott Dierking]

All it takes is want to and tenacity, but none of the Jets other high priced front 7 can do it? You said yourself that's what the Jets are missing, but they have Thomas, Pace, Taylor, Scott, Harris, Pryce, and Ellis who are all very high to fairly high priced guys and early draft picks.

Gholston may suck, but it takes a lot more than wanting it to be a good pass rusher.

Those players that you mentioned, have all performed far better than Gholsten.

If he at least performed at the level of any of the players you mentioned, I would be happy. Heck, if he gave as much as Ellis did in the NE playoff game, I would be ecstatic.

he never did, and that is why we are at this point.

Please don't stain the other players you mentioned by comparing them to Gholsten. That is just wrong.

I never said itwas JUST tenacity that makes a pass rusher.

But tell me one time where you feel Gholsten exhibited a fierce streak

[#27TheDominator]

Those players that you mentioned, have all performed far better than Gholsten.

If he at least performed at the level of any of the players you mentioned, I would be happy. Heck, if he gave as much as Ellis did in the NE playoff game, I would be ecstatic.

he never did, and that is why we are at this point.

Please don't stain the other players you mentioned by comparing them to Gholsten. That is just wrong.

I never said itwas JUST tenacity that makes a pass rusher.

But tell me one time where you feel Gholsten exhibited a fierce streak

I didn't say that he exhibited a fierce streak. I said that there is a lot more to rushing the passer than "studying film and want to". All those players are better than Gholston, but their lack of pass rush is why you think Gholston is so important. There is nothing that I could say that would be enough to properly stain the name of Bryan Thomas.

[Scott Dierking]

I didn't say that he exhibited a fierce streak. I said that there is a lot more to rushing the passer than "studying film and want to". All those players are better than Gholston, but their lack of pass rush is why you think Gholston is so important. There is nothing that I could say that would be enough to properly stain the name of Bryan Thomas.

Again, you dismiss this debate to what others are accomplishing, when the only issue is Gholston.

[#27TheDominator]

Yes, the Jets did have talent on defense. The one thing that they were missing-Someone who could hunt down the QB and fight off blocks.

Guess who was brought in, just to do that.

You know what it takes to get after the QB, if you have properly mastered technique and studied film?-Want to, and tenacity. If you at least possess a little of those qualities, you are going to get lucky somewhere along the line.

Gholston obviously lacks intestinal fortitude to succeed as at least a mediocre athlete.

Again, you dismiss this debate to what others are accomplishing, when the only issue is Gholston.

What the **** are you talking about? Read your post. You said the jets lacked a pass rusher and that all it takes is mastering technique, studying film, want to and tenacity. Maybe that is all it takes, but the Jets have a sh*t load of guys that don't have what it takes.

Gholston sucks. He's worse than those other guys. Where is debate? Did anybody ever say otherwise?

[Scott Dierking]

What the **** are you talking about? Read your post. You said the jets lacked a pass rusher and that all it takes is mastering technique, studying film, want to and tenacity. Maybe that is all it takes, but the Jets have a sh*t load of guys that don't have what it takes.

Gholston sucks. He's worse than those other guys. Where is debate? Did anybody ever say otherwise?

we agree then

[#27TheDominator]

we agree then

Pretty much.

[mark6sanchez]

I agree also that among the Jet's front 7 non require a double team .. Pace sucked last yr, Thomas after a good yr the yr before sucked also . Rex did a great job getting what he got out of these guys in the front 7, the inside guys did great stopping the run, but they generated no pass rush... the Jets type of defense needs a Lawrence Taylor/ Terrel Suggs type (easy to find...lol)that requires 2x blocking or more off the edge...Which makes everybody much better on defense, makes the opposing QBs worse, which leads to turnovers. AGAIN, we are lucky to have one of the best defensive minds in the NFL, Rex Ryan. Imagine what he could do with a legit pass rush.