Rate Jets Offseason: Defense

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

Hi.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

EDGE:  Reddick & McDonald are better playmakers than JFM & Huff.  Expect more sacks, more forced fumbles, amd more batted passes.  Overall impact to run defense should be negligible assuming Clemons slims back down.

Mosley:  The guy is still a pretty good player but I can’t ignore the simple fact he is much slower to the ball, despite the # of tackles.  I’d rather lose a slowing down vet a year early than a year late.

Best other move:  While I believe Ashtyn might break out, the biggest impact will be Sauce shadowing the #1 WR.  If it happens (still a bit skeptical), it makes the Jets D that much more dangerous & unpredictable.

Biggest weakness:  Run defense.  Outside of Quinnen, where is the BIG Ugly in the middle.  Fotu is the best we could have done?

Surprise player:  In a win now year, believe there is an opportunity for a guy like Zaire Barnes to steal snaps, especially in coverage.  His speed and instincts flashed in the preseason despite him being viewed as a reach by some draft publications.  

Overall:  Top 3 NFL Defense.  Urgency to win now will make the Jets less predictable.  Playmakers like Reddick, McDonald, and Davis will increase the number of turnovers.  A significantly better Jets Offense will keep their legs fresher and allow them to pin their ears back w/ some leads.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

After the 3rd preseason game last year:

LB Zaire Barnes
Linebacker Zaire Barnes, the Jets' sixth-round pick (No. 184), started and played a majority of the first half and finished with 4 tackles. Barnes played 39 snaps (55%).

"I was just pick picking up on what the offense was trying to run and communicate with the guys," Barnes said. "Making sure they were on the same page and then the second drive, just getting into a groove and playing ball at that point. Yeah, it is all becoming pretty natural."

Heading into the game, Barnes led the NFL with 13 tackles this preseason. The Western Michigan now ranks second with 17 tackles.

[PepPep]

5 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

EDGE:  Reddick & McDonald are better playmakers than JFM & Huff.  Expect more sacks, more forced fumbles, amd more batted passes.  Overall impact to run defense should be negligible assuming Clemons slims back down.

Mosley:  The guy is still a pretty good player but I can’t ignore the simple fact he is much slower to the ball, despite the # of tackles.  I’d rather lose a slowing down vet a year early than a year late.

Best other move:  While I believe Ashtyn might break out, the biggest impact will be Sauce shadowing the #1 WR.  If it happens (still a bit skeptical), it makes the Jets D that much more dangerous & unpredictable.

Biggest weakness:  Run defense.  Outside of Quinnen, where is the BIG Ugly in the middle.  Fotu is the best we could have done?

Surprise player:  In a win now year, believe there is an opportunity for a guy like Zaire Barnes to steal snaps, especially in coverage.  His speed and instincts flashed in the preseason despite him being viewed as a reach by some draft publications.  

Overall:  Top 3 NFL Defense.  Urgency to win now will make the Jets less predictable.  Playmakers like Reddick, McDonald, and Davis will increase the number of turnovers.  A significantly better Jets Offense will keep their legs fresher and allow them to pin their ears back w/ some leads.

-I think Edge is a push IMO. 

-I think 'bringing back' or restructuring Mosley was a net positive. Bad time for a win now team to start messing around and trying to fit in a FA or rookie or backup as a starter at this position. 

-I would say the best 'other' move was the Reddick trade. If we're not counting that, I think its Kinlaw. I don't view the Sauce thing as a 'move'. He did some of that last year. Its just something that was said, who knows if they will actually do it. And the Jets will still play enough zone where I just don't think this will be some kind of revelation that changes their whole defense.

-Agreed. Run D. Not much of a weakness. But if we are looking for one. This would be it. I would also add - penalties. 

-I think a surprise player will be Stiggers. I think he makes the team and sees action due to injury. If I'm not mistaken, every single one of our starting CBs missed games due to injury last year. I remember at one point we had Craig James and Tae Hayes  on the outside with Carter II in the slot because Echols, Sauce and Reed were all out. Against the Eagles? Stiggers is considered a developmental player coming out of the CFL but he has great awareness and ball reaction. I think he will do well in rookie camp and be one of the first to be called on if our corners get banged up. 

-This should be a top 3 defense in pts allowed. Agree 100%. 

[Jetsfan80]

@Sperm Edwards Over 83 % of Jets fans wanted Mosley back.  

 

[JKlecko]

1.  I think Reddick & McDonald are roughly even to JFM & Huff.  Reddick is better than Huff, but for now JFM is better than McDonald, although I hope that McDonald will prove to be a revelation this season.

2. It's great having Mosely back.  He's the captain of the D.

3.IMO the best move by far is re-siging Davis and Clark and it's not even close. Sauce shadowing other teams' top WRs is not a move, and even if it were, it doesn't compare with adding Clark and Davis back; otherwise, the Jets would only have Adams, JBC, Key and UDFAs at S.  Kinlaw had a great season this past season, but is still an unknown.

4.  IMO the biggest weakness could be stopping the run or the lack of discipline.  With Reddick and if Kinlaw really is on the upswing, the stopping the run may not be much of a problem any more.  With JFM gone, there should be fewer dumb penalties on the Jets' D, but unless Hackett has gotten his act together, the lack of discipline on offense could continue to undermine and hold back the offense.  Even with markedly better players on the OL. I lean towards the discipline issue still potentially being the biggest problem.  Also, if the Jets have more leads this year, opposing teams will probably have fewer opportunities to run the ball, so that could help to make a difference.

5. I'd be happy with any of those players "coming out of nowhere" and having a great season, but I'd prefer it be Stiggers, JBC, or Barnes.  Surratt will be a FA next offseason (along with Sherwood), so if he has a breakout season, the Jets probably wouldn't be able to re-sign him.  Oliver is only here on a 1-year deal, so I think it would be the same with him.  Stiggers has the most talent of the 3 and he could potentially take over for Reed if the Jets can't re-sign him, and he could also have the biggest impact with his ball-hawking and playmaking skills either at CB or S.  It would also be big if it was either JBC or Barnes as they're still under contract and could play a more important role going forward.  We could lose both Surratt and Sherwood and Clark next offseason.

[32EBoozer]

10 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

1.  I think Reddick & McDonald are roughly even to JFM & Huff.  Reddick is better than Huff, but for now JFM is better than McDonald, although I hope that McDonald will prove to be a revelation this season.

2. It's great having Mosely back.  He's the captain of the D.

3.IMO the best move by far is re-siging Davis and Clark and it's not even close. Sauce shadowing other teams' top WRs is not a move, and even if it were, it doesn't compare with adding Clark and Davis back; otherwise, the Jets would only have Adams, JBC, Key and UDFAs at S.  Kinlaw had a great season this past season, but is still an unknown.

4.  IMO the biggest weakness could be stopping the run or the lack of discipline.  With Reddick and if Kinlaw really is on the upswing, the stopping the run may not be much of a problem any more.  With JFM gone, there should be fewer dumb penalties on the Jets' D, but unless Hackett has gotten his act together, the lack of discipline on offense could continue to undermine and hold back the offense.  Even with markedly better players on the OL. I lean towards the discipline issue still potentially being the biggest problem.  Also, if the Jets have more leads this year, oppsing teams will probably have fewer opportunities to run the ball, so that could help to make a difference.

5. I'd be happy with any of those players "coming out of nowhere" and having a great season, but I'd prefer it be Stiggers, JBC, or Barnes.  Surratt will be a FA next offseason (along with Sherwood), so if he has a breakout season, the Jets probably wouldn't be able to re-sign him.  Oliver is only here on a 1-year deal, so I think it would be the same with him.  Stiggers has the most talent of the 3 and he could potentially take over for Reed if the Jets can't re-sign him, and he could also have the biggest impact with his ball-hawking and playmaking skills either at CB or S.  It would also be big if it was either JBC or Barnes as they're still under contract and could play a more important role going forward.  We could lose both Surratt and Sherwood and Clark next offseason.

Good write up 

[BreeceHallofFame]

McDonald jumped off the screen all pre season and had a really high pressure rate in limited in season reps. I think he’s going to be really good. 

[Sperm Edwards]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@Sperm Edwards Over 83 % of Jets fans wanted Mosley back.  

 

100% of them are so stupid that they’re Jets fans.

[Larz]

They have 3 months to find/upgrade 

backup DE

backup linebacker 

if McDonald takes the necessary step forward, could be a fun pass rush team to watch 

[Rhg1084]

Jets defense is elite and will continue to dominate. Nothing really to say here with this unit except enjoy the show. 

[kdels62]

Zaire Barnes is Mosley’s successor and I’m weirdly sure about that.

[JetsRay]

On 5/4/2024 at 3:18 PM, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

EDGE:  Reddick & McDonald are better playmakers than JFM & Huff.  Expect more sacks, more forced fumbles, amd more batted passes.  Overall impact to run defense should be negligible assuming Clemons slims back down.

Mosley:  The guy is still a pretty good player but I can’t ignore the simple fact he is much slower to the ball, despite the # of tackles.  I’d rather lose a slowing down vet a year early than a year late.

Best other move:  While I believe Ashtyn might break out, the biggest impact will be Sauce shadowing the #1 WR.  If it happens (still a bit skeptical), it makes the Jets D that much more dangerous & unpredictable.

Biggest weakness:  Run defense.  Outside of Quinnen, where is the BIG Ugly in the middle.  Fotu is the best we could have done?

Surprise player:  In a win now year, believe there is an opportunity for a guy like Zaire Barnes to steal snaps, especially in coverage.  His speed and instincts flashed in the preseason despite him being viewed as a reach by some draft publications.  

Overall:  Top 3 NFL Defense.  Urgency to win now will make the Jets less predictable.  Playmakers like Reddick, McDonald, and Davis will increase the number of turnovers.  A significantly better Jets Offense will keep their legs fresher and allow them to pin their ears back w/ some leads.

Fotu is 6'6 330 lbs, and Kinlaw is 6'5' 320. The Jets also have a couple of prospects in Marquis Spencer and Leonard Taylor from Miami.

Jets have significantly upgraded the interior of the DL

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

6 hours ago, Larz said:

They have 3 months to find/upgrade 

backup DE

backup linebacker 

if McDonald takes the necessary step forward, could be a fun pass rush team to watch 

Over another reserve Guard and possibly a vet WR?  

Think the Jets instead go with a 4 man rotation at DE, w/ Clemons rounding out the group.

We’ll only keep 5 LBs.  The Jets play a lot of 3 safeties w/ Clark & Davis projected as quasi-box LBs a good chunk of the time.  

Mosley, Quincy, Sherwood, Barnes, Surratt.  Why the need for a vet LB?

 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

3 minutes ago, JetsRay said:

Fotu is 6'6 330 lbs, and Kinlaw is 6'5' 320. The Jets also have a couple of prospects in Marquis Spencer and Leonard Taylor from Miami.

Jets have significantly upgraded the interior of the DL

Neither has graded well as a run stopper.  

Kinlaw will bring pass rushing pressure from the inside, a potential upgrade over the underrated Quincy Jefferson (who also wasn’t known as a quality run defender).

Fotu seems more of a 2 gap player who might be better than graded at setting an anchor for LBs to clean up plays. 

[kdels62]

11 hours ago, JetsRay said:

Fotu is 6'6 330 lbs, and Kinlaw is 6'5' 320. The Jets also have a couple of prospects in Marquis Spencer and Leonard Taylor from Miami.

Jets have significantly upgraded the interior of the DL

No. Fotu is not as good as Al Woods and Kinlaw is not as good as Quinton Jefferson. And Leonard Taylor is a big meh UDFA.

[Mr. Rogers]

I said "roughly even" on Q1: the D line. I would expect the new group to do even better on sacks and maybe pressures, but losing JFM, Jefferson and Woods also leaves me with some questions about defending the run. I know Reddick can do that, but I'm less sure about McDonald and the new iDL group. Overall I'm hoping it's a slight upgrade but I'm hesitant to say "big upgrade".

Also said Stiggers for breakout, but tbh let's hope it's none of those guys because that probably means injuries happened.

[slats]

On 5/4/2024 at 8:58 PM, JKlecko said:

I think Reddick & McDonald are roughly even to JFM & Huff.  Reddick is better than Huff, but for now JFM is better than McDonald, although I hope that McDonald will prove to be a revelation this season.

This is an odd way to look at it, imo. Reddick is an upgrade over JFM, and replaces him in the starting lineup. Then it comes down to McDonald vs. Huff on the second team. I expect that to be no worse than a wash, and quite possibly another upgrade. 
 
Run defense is my only concern but, unlike on offense, I actually have faith in the coaches on the defensive side to cover up any weaknesses. When it comes to undisciplined play, they solved a good chunk of that when they traded JFM away. 
 
The Jets always seem to have good defenses, but they’re more often ranked higher in yards against than points against. I’d like to see them do a better job keeping points off the board this year. Best way to keep the other team from scoring is to take the ball from them, and I’m hoping that Reddick and McDonald slap some balls out this season. The idea of Sauce Island is intriguing, so long as Reed can deal playing on the other side of the field. I like Stiggers, too. I like that he cut his teeth against grown men in Canada, and became their RoY from the CB position, the first player to do that in 25 years, apparently. He has those ball hawking skills that I want someone to have in the secondary. I like that Quincy Williams says he’s working on his ball skills, too. 
 
How the defense fares will be largely dependent on the offense. If the offense can control the clock and put points on the board, the “weakness” in run defense won’t be a major issue. 

[Mr. Rogers]

3 hours ago, slats said:

This is an odd way to look at it, imo. Reddick is an upgrade over JFM, and replaces him in the starting lineup. Then it comes down to McDonald vs. Huff on the second team. I expect that to be no worse than a wash, and quite possibly another upgrade. 
 
Run defense is my only concern but, unlike on offense, I actually have faith in the coaches on the defensive side to cover up any weaknesses. When it comes to undisciplined play, they solved a good chunk of that when they traded JFM away. 
 
The Jets always seem to have good defenses, but they’re more often ranked higher in yards against than points against. I’d like to see them do a better job keeping points off the board this year. Best way to keep the other team from scoring is to take the ball from them, and I’m hoping that Reddick and McDonald slap some balls out this season. The idea of Sauce Island is intriguing, so long as Reed can deal playing on the other side of the field. I like Stiggers, too. I like that he cut his teeth against grown men in Canada, and became their RoY from the CB position, the first player to do that in 25 years, apparently. He has those ball hawking skills that I want someone to have in the secondary. I like that Quincy Williams says he’s working on his ball skills, too. 
 
How the defense fares will be largely dependent on the offense. If the offense can control the clock and put points on the board, the “weakness” in run defense won’t be a major issue. 

Agreed, it'll also help their points against if the offense isn't going 3 and out half the time. And if the D spends less than 2/3 of the game on the field. 

Felt like way too often over the last 2 years, the defense would make a great stand and get a stop, only to end up right back on the field.

This might also produce a perceived "improvement" against the run, as more teams are actually forced to try and score on us (rather than letting us beat ourselves). Conversely, the pass defense may look "worse" but hopefully we can parlay other teams needing to be more aggressive into more sacks and takeaways as you said. It's hard to get takeaways when the other team only "needs" to throw like 20 times. Half the reason we actually split the last 2 season series with the Bills was that we could force them to pass, for instance. And, of course, our run game and OL are intact early in the season.

[BigRy56]

Reddick is a dramatic upgrade. Still have questions about how we'll handle the run (like Kinlaw and think he'll be a big positive factor this year, unsure about Fotu)... but if there's anything this Jets staff can be fully trusted with, it's defense and specifically DL development. If the offense pulls its weight, the defense will live in passing situations and be at its best. This is a top 5 defense no matter how you slice it, barring injuries

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, slats said:

This is an odd way to look at it, imo. Reddick is an upgrade over JFM, and replaces him in the starting lineup. Then it comes down to McDonald vs. Huff on the second team. I expect that to be no worse than a wash, and quite possibly another upgrade. 
 
Run defense is my only concern but, unlike on offense, I actually have faith in the coaches on the defensive side to cover up any weaknesses. When it comes to undisciplined play, they solved a good chunk of that when they traded JFM away. 
 
The Jets always seem to have good defenses, but they’re more often ranked higher in yards against than points against. I’d like to see them do a better job keeping points off the board this year. Best way to keep the other team from scoring is to take the ball from them, and I’m hoping that Reddick and McDonald slap some balls out this season. The idea of Sauce Island is intriguing, so long as Reed can deal playing on the other side of the field. I like Stiggers, too. I like that he cut his teeth against grown men in Canada, and became their RoY from the CB position, the first player to do that in 25 years, apparently. He has those ball hawking skills that I want someone to have in the secondary. I like that Quincy Williams says he’s working on his ball skills, too. 
 
How the defense fares will be largely dependent on the offense. If the offense can control the clock and put points on the board, the “weakness” in run defense won’t be a major issue. 

I disagree.  IMO you compare the best of each pair against each other, not the best against the worst of each pair, but even comparing starter vs starter and backup vs backup, it's still a wash imo because even though Reddick is clearly better than JFM, McDonald is still relatively unproven and Huff is definitely better at this point in time, so that balances things out.  

The undisciplined play wasn't limited to JFM.  The OL and TEs were pretty undisciplined.  How many false start, illegal procedures, and holding calls did they have?  Of course some of that was due to the fact that the Jets were playing 2nd and 3rd stringers, and neither Smith nor Moses are likely to make those kinds of mistakes.

I agree that I'd like to see the Jets being better in points against vs yards against.  I also agree that if the offense can move the ball, sustain drives and put up points, the run defense won't be a major issue.

 

[slats]

6 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree.  IMO you compare the best of each pair against each other, not the best against the worst of each pair, but even comparing starter vs starter and backup vs backup, it's still a wash imo because even though Reddick is clearly better than JFM, McDonald is still relatively unproven and Huff is definitely better at this point in time, so that balances things out.  

I like Huff a lot, but your opinion of him is higher than mine - and also, presumably, the team’s, given that JFM was both a starter and on the field on obvious passing downs while Huff was a pass rush specializing backup. Hard to say that someone is “definitely better” than someone who hasn’t had the opportunity to prove themselves yet, too. 
 
What I see there is that the Jets replaced one starter with another who is “clearly better,” and now have a first round pick replacing an UDFA as their designated pass rush specialist. I believe they managed to upgrade while also saving a ton of coin. We’ll see how it plays out. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

Try this poll in 5 years .

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, slats said:

I like Huff a lot, but your opinion of him is higher than mine - and also, presumably, the team’s, given that JFM was both a starter and on the field on obvious passing downs while Huff was a pass rush specializing backup. Hard to say that someone is “definitely better” than someone who hasn’t had the opportunity to prove themselves yet, too. 
 
What I see there is that the Jets replaced one starter with another who is “clearly better,” and now have a first round pick replacing an UDFA as their designated pass rush specialist. I believe they managed to upgrade while also saving a ton of coin. We’ll see how it plays out. 

First-round draft picks usually get to play a lot, if not start, especially those taken top 15.  The fact that McDonald didn't play that much, and Huff got more snaps than he had before last season clearly says to me that Huff is definitely better than McDonald, at least at this point in time.  If McDonald has a big season, and Huff's stats fall back, then I'll change my mind.  As you said, however, we'll see how it plays out.