"The Night Of" --- CONTAINS SPOILERS

[JustInFudge]

While I'm enjoying the acting and the story...I really have no clue where this thing is going.

Is this going to be about a murder mystery getting solved and the proceeding trial led by the underdog Lawyer?  Or is this going to be the story of Naz integrating into prison life?  

Kind of lost about the direction/overall meaning of the story.  Which is cool because I'm still totally into it.  haha

[Integrity28]

38 minutes ago, JiF said:

While I'm enjoying the acting and the story...I really have no clue where this thing is going.

Is this going to be about a murder mystery getting solved and the proceeding trial led by the underdog Lawyer?  Or is this going to be the story of Naz integrating into prison life?  

Kind of lost about the direction/overall meaning of the story.  Which is cool because I'm still totally into it.  haha

Not being able to figure out, and predict, where it's going is my favorite part. Too much of TV/movie content is so patterned, it becomes obvious what they are going for, and then the only thing to evaluate and react to is how well they worked out details along the preconceived arc.

This, however, allows for uncertainty and curiosity to be part of the ride...

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Not being able to figure out, and predict, where it's going is my favorite part. Too much of TV/movie content is so patterned, it becomes obvious what they are going for, and then the only thing to evaluate and react to is how well they worked out details along the preconceived arc.

This, however, allows for uncertainty and curiosity to be part of the ride...

Yep, agreed.  I'm loving it.  The acting is phenomenal.  

My prediction: Chandra quits the Law Firm, teams up with John Stone...and then some "Making a Murderer" type sh*t happens where they have enough evidence to prove his innocence and point to someone else and the justice system fails Naz who goes on to run sh*t for the next 75 years in prison.  And he gets to bang Chandra a couple of times in the process. 

And I love seeing Vinnie from Doogie Howser resurfacing lately.  Dude's a good actor. 

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yep, agreed.  I'm loving it.  The acting is phenomenal.  

My prediction: Chandra quits the Law Firm, teams up with John Stone...and then some "Making a Murderer" type sh*t happens where they have enough evidence to prove his innocence and point to someone else and the justice system fails Naz who goes on to run sh*t for the next 75 years in prison.  And he gets to bang Chandra a couple of times in the process. 

And I love seeing Vinnie from Doogie Howser resurfacing lately.  Dude's a good actor. 

I haven't seen Making a Murderer, but I told my wife that the clock is ticking for Naz... he'll either get killed, or become an actual killer in that prison situation he's in.

Agreed on Vinnie.

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I haven't seen Making a Murderer, but I told my wife that the clock is ticking for Naz... he'll either get killed, or become an actual killer in that prison situation he's in.

Agreed on Vinnie.

Yep...the whole, do correctional institutions actually help heal or make them hardened tougher criminals debate.

Or in this case, a supposed non-criminal turns into one just to survive. 

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

 

And I love seeing Vinnie from Doogie Howser resurfacing lately.  Dude's a good actor. 

The part of STONE was written for James Gandolfini who is credited as an executive producer. So..the scene outside the rehab center had 2 former Soprano's characters in it.  Ever notice...these HBO series use many of the same actors.

Step Father  -  Boardwalk Empire

Fred E Knight -  Boardwalk Empire, The Wire

 

 

 

 

[greenwichjetfan]

On 8/2/2016 at 10:59 AM, JiF said:

Is this going to be about a murder mystery getting solved and the proceeding trial led by the underdog Lawyer?  Or is this going to be the story of Naz integrating into prison life?  

Very much True Detective S1 meets Oz. 

Loving it. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Things are getting interesting. I hope they show how prison criminalizes and institutionalizes people. Show Naz doing what he has to do to survive in there. No matter who has your back you have to get dirty in there. It'll be interesting to see how they portray Freddie's retaliation, if they keep it prison or glamorize it.

Also have to say they're severely underplaying some of the issues at Rikers and just prison in general. Regarding the overcrowding, there are some units with over 40 racks on the floor with bunk beds, what they're showing is a bit lightweight. Naz just getting immediate medical attention that easily for the burn was highly unlikely. Any ailment you have, repeat any ailment you have, can take upwards of 10-12 hours to get treated, and sometimes you wouldn't even get seen until the next day. And they touched on it a bit with the shower but for a show that's focused on realism they've dedicated little to no time in portraying how ******* filthy everything is; dead skin flakes everywhere, dudes sh*tting their pants...etc.

[greenwichjetfan]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Things are getting interesting. I hope they show how prison criminalizes and institutionalizes people. Show Naz doing what he has to do to survive in there. No matter who has your back you have to get dirty in there. It'll be interesting to see how they portray Freddie's retaliation, if they keep it prison or glamorize it.

Also have to say they're severely underplaying some of the issues at Rikers and just prison in general. Regarding the overcrowding, there are some units with over 40 racks on the floor with bunk beds, what they're showing is a bit lightweight. Naz just getting immediate medical attention that easily for the burn was highly unlikely. Any ailment you have, repeat any ailment you have, can take upwards of 10-12 hours to get treated, and sometimes you wouldn't even get seen until the next day. And they touched on it a bit with the shower but for a show that's focused on realism they've dedicated little to no time in portraying how ******* filthy everything is; dead skin flakes everywhere, dudes sh*tting their pants...etc.

Retaliation for what? If Freddy plays by his own rules, then whatever happened to Naz before he said "I need your help" is not under his purview. I don't think the new Jack Bauer has anything coming to him from Freddy's camp. 

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Retaliation for what? If Freddy plays by his own rules, then whatever happened to Naz before he said "I need your help" is not under his purview. I don't think the new Jack Bauer has anything coming to him from Freddy's camp. 

We'll see. They made a point to show that he's a hands on guy when it comes to sending a message. The one dude was dead right though, everything in there is a weapon; toilet paper, coffee cup lids, you name it. There was a guy in Canada who made a crossbow out of tooth brushes and some tongs from the kitchen.

[greenwichjetfan]

20 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

We'll see. They made a point to show that he's a hands on guy when it comes to sending a message. The one dude was dead right though, everything in there is a weapon; toilet paper, coffee cup lids, you name it. There was a guy in Canada who made a crossbow out of tooth brushes and some tongs from the kitchen.

Yea, I was curious about the baby oil and hot water. Looks like that's a real thing. 

http://sanilaccountynews.mihomepaper.com/news/2015-09-16/Court_News/Prisoners_assaulted_with_boiling_water_baby_oil.html

Some other stuff I learned while googling that:
- Hand sanitizer is secured in many prisons because when combined with NaCl (table salt), it separates the 'alcohol' from the rest of the sanitizer, and inmates drink the alcohol part for a buzz. 
- Baby wipes are also banned/secured because inmates were found (1) inhaling them (2) wringing them out into cups and drinking the falling liquid.
- The tops of tuna fish cans are deadly weapons
- Google "zip gun" because it's too much to type out, but yea - inmates are making real guns out of old newspapers/magazines
- Lighters made out of a paper clip and a battery

 

[Integrity28]

On August 3, 2016 at 4:01 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

Things are getting interesting. I hope they show how prison criminalizes and institutionalizes people. Show Naz doing what he has to do to survive in there. No matter who has your back you have to get dirty in there. It'll be interesting to see how they portray Freddie's retaliation, if they keep it prison or glamorize it.

Also have to say they're severely underplaying some of the issues at Rikers and just prison in general. Regarding the overcrowding, there are some units with over 40 racks on the floor with bunk beds, what they're showing is a bit lightweight. Naz just getting immediate medical attention that easily for the burn was highly unlikely. Any ailment you have, repeat any ailment you have, can take upwards of 10-12 hours to get treated, and sometimes you wouldn't even get seen until the next day. And they touched on it a bit with the shower but for a show that's focused on realism they've dedicated little to no time in portraying how ******* filthy everything is; dead skin flakes everywhere, dudes sh*tting their pants...etc.

Done a lot of hard time, have you?

[Dcat]

On 8/2/2016 at 4:43 PM, southparkcpa said:

The part of STONE was written for James Gandolfini who is credited as an executive producer. So..the scene outside the rehab center had 2 former Soprano's characters in it.  Ever notice...these HBO series use many of the same actors.

Step Father  -  Boardwalk Empire

Fred E Knight -  Boardwalk Empire, The Wire

Michael Kenneth Williams has been great as Freddie.  Loved him as Chalkie in Boardwalk Empire too.  Brilliant scripting when he tells Nas the reason why he wants to protect him.  I am loving this show.  The pace is slow so I'm not sure how this can wrap up in only 4 more episodes... but this is certainly riveting.  

Loved the courtroom scene when the plea bargain was supposed to go down.  

[RutgersJetFan]

On August 3, 2016 at 3:06 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

Retaliation for what? If Freddy plays by his own rules, then whatever happened to Naz before he said "I need your help" is not under his purview. I don't think the new Jack Bauer has anything coming to him from Freddy's camp. 

Ahem...

[Matt39]

Theory: Freddy is the supplier and had Duane Reade kill Andrea(or the kill was through the waiter/dealer) to settle a debt. Luckily for him he had Nas fall in his lap in prison and will get him knocked for smuggling drugs in.

Still not sure how the step dad plays into it.

[greenwichjetfan]

12 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Ahem...

[JustInFudge]

So good...they're doing a little bit of everything which I thought would be really tough to pull off:

They're showing Naz become a criminal.  The real question is, what else is he hiding?  How awesome was that scene with him swallowing the drugs?  

They're showing the team work to solve the case.  With a Lawyer playing detective.  And I think the real detective knows this kid is innocent and the more he sees it, the more he knows it and the DA is just going to manipulate as much as they can to make it stick.

So we're getting to see the failures of the justice system.  The scene in the morgue with the guy practicing his lines was classic.  We're getting to see how prison makes you a more hardened criminal.  And maybe we get to see the court room drama?  

Loved the way it ended.  So good!!!

 

[Integrity28]

On 8/9/2016 at 10:26 AM, JiF said:

So good...they're doing a little bit of everything which I thought would be really tough to pull off:

They're showing Naz become a criminal.  The real question is, what else is he hiding?  How awesome was that scene with him swallowing the drugs?  

They're showing the team work to solve the case.  With a Lawyer playing detective.  And I think the real detective knows this kid is innocent and the more he sees it, the more he knows it and the DA is just going to manipulate as much as they can to make it stick.

So we're getting to see the failures of the justice system.  The scene in the morgue with the guy practicing his lines was classic.  We're getting to see how prison makes you a more hardened criminal.  And maybe we get to see the court room drama?  

Loved the way it ended.  So good!!!

 

They've developed the multiple suspect paradigm pretty well. 

Naz.

Did he actually do it? Did he fool us all? If this is the route the writers go, then bullsh*t. Biggest plot hole in the history of everything I've ever watched. We see him go to bed with her, yes, they get naked, but we see the blood in the room... it's everywhere, it would have gotten into his clothes on the floor, it would have gotten onto his skin, and into the clothes when he got dressed again. No way his clothes are clean, whether he stabbed her while dressed or undressed in the moment. Also, the knife they are saying is the murder weapon was on the table where they left it, not in the bedroom. It would be a huge stretch, and a show-ruiner, if they made it Naz.

Duane Reade.

WTF happened here? Didn't Stone end last week's episode chasing this guy into a creepy "don't follow him in there" hovel? Now he goes completely unmentioned in this episode?

Mortician

Interesting find by Chondra, the footage of him following them out of the gas station. Sick ****er probably didn't do it, but it's good to know that his character is an accurate reflection of how some men exist in this world brooding with hatred for women. Lovely.

Step-father

This tool bag helps cap off the episode in a truly indicting scene, similar to how last week's ended with Duane running... both look the part of guilty, based on what the writers tell us about them in context to the crime.

 

A couple of wtf moments...

• Emotionally jarring seeing Naz's father delivering take-out to Chondra.
• The woman they cast as Naz's mother is perfect. It won't get talked about, but she's so subtle in her demeanor that she evokes "educated, classy, refinement", so to see her mopping floors is a great juxtaposition.
• Naz's brother spray-painting the red line on school lockers... why? Everything in this show seems intentional. Even the stuff with Stone's feet. Why show this, with no other context? Unless it's part of the overall check-in on Naz family: mom taking a custodian job, dad taking a delivery job, and brother acting out?

Best part of it all.... I'm still not sure what to make of it. Obvious social commentary going on, but what they're actually trying to punctuate could flip on a dime, depending on the outcome. 

[greenwichjetfan]

16 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

They've developed the multiple suspect paradigm pretty well. 

Naz.

Did he actually do it? Did he fool us all? If this is the route the writers go, then bullsh*t. Biggest plot hole in the history of everything I've ever watched. We see him go to bed with her, yes, they get naked, but we see the blood in the room... it's everywhere, it would have gotten into his clothes on the floor, it would have gotten onto his skin, and into the clothes when he got dressed again. No way his clothes are clean, whether he stabbed her while dressed or undressed in the moment. Also, the knife they are saying is the murder weapon was on the table where they left it, not in the bedroom. It would be a huge stretch, and a show-ruiner, if they made it Naz.

Duane Reade.

WTF happened here? Didn't Stone end last week's episode chasing this guy into a creepy "don't follow him in there" hovel? Now he goes completely unmentioned in this episode?

Mortician

Interesting find by Chondra, the footage of him following them out of the gas station. Sick ****er probably didn't do it, but it's good to know that his character is an accurate reflection of how some men exist in this world brooding with hatred for women. Lovely.

Step-father

This tool bag helps cap off the episode in a truly indicting scene, similar to how last week's ended with Duane running... both look the part of guilty, based on what the writers tell us about them in context to the crime.

 

A couple of wtf moments...

• Emotionally jarring seeing Naz's father delivering take-out to Chondra.
• The woman they cast as Naz's mother is perfect. It won't get talked about, but she's so subtle in her demeanor that she evokes "educated, classy, refinement", so to see her mopping floors is a great juxtaposition.
• Naz's brother spray-painting the red line on school lockers... why? Everything in this show seems intentional. Even the stuff with Stone's feet. Why show this, with no other context? Unless it's part of the overall check-in on Naz family: mom taking a custodian job, dad taking a delivery job, and brother acting out?

Best part of it all.... I'm still not sure what to make of it. Obvious social commentary going on, but what they're actually trying to punctuate could flip on a dime, depending on the outcome. 

So, both of the guys I mentioned after week one to my colleague (Duane Reed and the psycho mortician) have been looped into this, so as of now I'm sitting pretty. However, as I mentioned in the thread a couple of weeks ago, I'm probably wrong, and it'll probably end up being the stepdad. Hopefully it was the stepdad paying Duane Reed to do it, so I get to stay at least partially right.

Also, don't love the whole crack angle with Freddie. The last two/three episodes before last night's made Freddie out to be a master on the island - whether he had malicious intent or not wasn't the point. He had connections and resources, and was able to maximize both to his advantage. When extrapolating out his crack habit (two/three times a day), there's no way he's that functional.

[greenwichjetfan]

Also, the look on Stone's face while he's waiting 5-8 seconds for the Chinese herbal doctor to put his gloves on. Gold. 

[rillo]

Naz out here freebasing, wow. 

[JustInFudge]

On 8/15/2016 at 2:32 PM, Integrity28 said:

They've developed the multiple suspect paradigm pretty well. 

Naz.

Did he actually do it? Did he fool us all? If this is the route the writers go, then bullsh*t. Biggest plot hole in the history of everything I've ever watched. We see him go to bed with her, yes, they get naked, but we see the blood in the room... it's everywhere, it would have gotten into his clothes on the floor, it would have gotten onto his skin, and into the clothes when he got dressed again. No way his clothes are clean, whether he stabbed her while dressed or undressed in the moment. Also, the knife they are saying is the murder weapon was on the table where they left it, not in the bedroom. It would be a huge stretch, and a show-ruiner, if they made it Naz.

Duane Reade.

WTF happened here? Didn't Stone end last week's episode chasing this guy into a creepy "don't follow him in there" hovel? Now he goes completely unmentioned in this episode?

Mortician

Interesting find by Chondra, the footage of him following them out of the gas station. Sick ****er probably didn't do it, but it's good to know that his character is an accurate reflection of how some men exist in this world brooding with hatred for women. Lovely.

Step-father

This tool bag helps cap off the episode in a truly indicting scene, similar to how last week's ended with Duane running... both look the part of guilty, based on what the writers tell us about them in context to the crime.

 

A couple of wtf moments...

• Emotionally jarring seeing Naz's father delivering take-out to Chondra.
• The woman they cast as Naz's mother is perfect. It won't get talked about, but she's so subtle in her demeanor that she evokes "educated, classy, refinement", so to see her mopping floors is a great juxtaposition.
• Naz's brother spray-painting the red line on school lockers... why? Everything in this show seems intentional. Even the stuff with Stone's feet. Why show this, with no other context? Unless it's part of the overall check-in on Naz family: mom taking a custodian job, dad taking a delivery job, and brother acting out?

Best part of it all.... I'm still not sure what to make of it. Obvious social commentary going on, but what they're actually trying to punctuate could flip on a dime, depending on the outcome. 

Great recap.  Just watched the most recent episode last night.  This show is phenomenal.  There is zero chance it all circles back to Naz as the murderer.  If they do that, then this whole show was a waste of everyone's time.  Agreed with that.  I just cant see that happening, even with all the effort to show he's not the good boy. 

I dont understand why they didnt provide any closure on the Reade search.  Especially with the way they ended the episode with all that weird frequency sh*t.  

The Mortician was so creepy.  It was awesome.  Such a strange event at the gas station but what does it mean?  

Like you said, there is no wasted air time so I have to wonder how Freddie's boy and the bj comes into play later on. 

The person with the motive (a HUGE motive) was just brought to the table.  The Stepdad.  If I'm betting man, he orchestrated this whole thing and that's how the show will pan out. 

I legit have no F'ing clue how this is going to end.  No clue.

That said. the scene with Stone if front of the "Rash Group Meeting" or whatever, had me laughing out loud.  He has been absolutely phenomenal.  

I found it interesting and maybe a bit of mistake on the writers part but how was that detective just now looking at his social media? 

[CotcheryifyouCan]

i feel like freddie (michael k williams) is up to no good. peer pressuring naz into smoking and giving him the cell phone. maybe he had something to do with it. i might be wrong but this show is great

[Integrity28]

On 8/17/2016 at 9:34 PM, CotcheryifyouCan said:

i feel like freddie (michael k williams) is up to no good. peer pressuring naz into smoking and giving him the cell phone. maybe he had something to do with it. i might be wrong but this show is great

My theory: Detective/DA don't have a confession, they have lots of evidence, but given how Freddie seems to have a functioning business partnership with the cops I wonder if he is doing a favor/deal here. If he is tearing down the only aspects of Naz's image that the defense could have leveraged. You see it when they start crossing things like "good kid" off the list of angles they want to focus on.

[CotcheryifyouCan]

10 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

My theory: Detective/DA don't have a confession, they have lots of evidence, but given how Freddie seems to have a functioning business partnership with the cops I wonder if he is doing a favor/deal here. If he is tearing down the only aspects of Naz's image that the defense could have leveraged. You see it when they start crossing things like "good kid" off the list of angles they want to focus on.

interesting theory, i think there might be more to it then that but def possible

[Bugg]

Question is does Stone have a recording of his interactions with the stepdad?

Not surprisingly the lawyers did a lot of things that would not be allowed in a trial. To ask a witness about the absence of a confession or not pleading guilty would get a judge to practically tackle you and end your examination of a witness. You have the 5th Amendment right to say nothing and hold the people to their burden of proof, or you can testify in your defense. But saying you didn't confess or plead guilty as proof of innocence IS NOT ALLOWED EVER. Hollywood!

 

 

[southparkcpa]

Last nights episode was perhaps the most suspenseful.   The idea of Naz "making out" with the attorney seems far fetched but so far, im hooked.

[RutgersJetFan]

That might have been the best episode since 2. Last five minutes where they kept cutting back and forth between Box and the prison killing were incredibly shot.

[greenwichjetfan]

Interesting episode. They're going to have to pack a whole lot of sh*t into the final hour...that, or more things will start happening that make absolutely no sense; like the completely-out-of-left-field kiss between chandra and naz, or the complete 180 they did on Jack's relationship with his son. 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

That might have been the best episode since 2. Last five minutes where they kept cutting back and forth between Box and the prison killing were incredibly shot.

The self doubt that Box now has was well done also....

[RutgersJetFan]

25 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

The self doubt that Box now has was well done also....

It's interesting how all those quirky shots of the little things they did in earlier episodes (Box holding the inhaler, the photo taken from the staircase...etc) wind up being game changers. This is certainly not the greatest show ever filmed, but the cinematography is as good as anything I can ever remember.

Plus Naz being an accessory to a 1st degree now, just wow.

[JustInFudge]

On 8/2/2016 at 1:32 PM, JiF said:

My prediction: Chandra quits the Law Firm, teams up with John Stone...and then some "Making a Murderer" type sh*t happens where they have enough evidence to prove his innocence and point to someone else and the justice system fails Naz who goes on to run sh*t for the next 75 years in prison.  And he gets to bang Chandra a couple of times in the process. 

 

I was close, no???

lmfao

This show is ******* good.  Last night episode was ******* awesome.

Are they doing a 2 hour finale?  I cant see how they wrap this up in a 1 hour show. 

[Integrity28]

So. Good.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

So. Good.

That was something else. Stone's closing argument is one for the ages. You'll be seeing that one on mashups and sh*t for as long as the internet exists. When he sat back down and Naz said thank you it got real dusty up in my household. Everything Stone went through. For him to rise to the occasion like that, what a climax. And then that scene in the restaurant after. My god.

"See? Ya learned something in there. Everyone's got a cross to bear Naz, pardon the expression. **** 'em all. Live your life."

"Thank you. For what you did for me."

"Don't mention it."

[RutgersJetFan]

46 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

That was something else. Stone's closing argument is one for the ages.

One more bit about this: it was the whole show. Every little thing that happened along the way with Duane Reed and the hearse driver. why reasonable doubt matters, presumption of innocence, the investigation, the consequences of breaking ethics codes in all professions, Naz's decent into prison life, the point of Stone's eczema...etc, even the ******* show title was invoked. You can see the look on Box and the prosecutor's faces as they come to terms with the fact that they ****ed up as he's talking. We had been waiting for 8 hours for The Night Of to explain its point to us and it finally did in the coolest way. Richard Price is a gem. There is no other way to put it. Always has been and always will be. One of the great, great American crime writers.