Could THIS Be The Reason We Didn't Try For Braylon?

[slats]

This is true. He can probably make top 10 if Sanchez steps up and the offense gets more open. I really don't understand why you'd pair a great defense with a conservative offense. The Jets D forces the most 3 and outs in the league, while the Jets O I believe is very high on the 3 and out list as well.

So just go for broke. Your defense will bail you out but the defense will be far better off if you give them a few big leads here and there instead of asking them to carry you 20 games a year. Instead, try playing 19 games and the defense only needs to carry on say 10. The Jets D seems to be worn out by the end of the season and especially the AFCC game every year.

I really couldn't agree more. I think a strangling dee should be combined with a go for the jugular offense for a two-pronged attack on their opponents' necks. Too many of these defensive minded coaches are afraid of making any mistakes on offense. Rex is obviously a much better coach, but it's a continuation of the philosophy here with Herm and Mangini.

He's given a little lip service to opening up the offense this year, I really hope he follows thru. My concern is that they'll go right back into their shell after a couple incompletions or an int.

Oh, and Schottenheimer sucks.

My question is...

Where is the outrage for him getting off? When this first occurred, everyone and their mother was up in arms over it. The media was all over it, demanding he get suspended right then and there. Now he gets off with a slap on the wrist and...nothing out of our wonderful NY media. Double standard indeed.

Very valid question. All the blowhards were after the Jets to sit Braylon the week of his DUI, where are they now? I wouldn't tune in Francessa to signal a rescue plane from a desert island, but what does his fatass have to say? Or Gary Myers? Or Lupica - he was another one, right?

[Smashmouth]

What, we might fall from the 26th passing attack to the 28th? Oh noe's!

Dont be silly about it man, I made it clear that my worries were about age and they both have battled injuries throughout training camp. Do you think they are on the same page with Sanchez yet with the limited action they have had ?? or is practice and timing also not relevant in the Jets world along with age and time away from the game ? Look I'll be the first to tell ya I hope they tear it up but you cant just ignore the factor of age and time off from the game. Are you just mesmerized by Plax's great diving catch in the preseason ? or are you looking at the fact were going into the season with ONE receiever who actully knows the offense ? I would say thats not looking to good from a historical perspective.

Lets say worst case scenario Plax gets hurt or will miss extended time not only does that hurt us for those games but its that much more time he does not get to work with Sanchez. Mason has had bascily no time at all. What happens come playoff time ?? Your think these old guys can deal with not only the beatdown of a regular season but top notch defenses that will most likely be in their face ?

All that being said we have one back who is a threat to cath the ball out of the back field and hes nothing close to what he used to be. yeah we have Joe McCrap but you know Shotty wont use him and even if he does what has he proven ? hell he dosent even know how to work our TE into the game plan that and the fact hes a major pussy does not help.

In summary what the jets have accomplished this offseason is surround their young QB with has beens and underacheivers. Compare that to what the other young Franchise QB's in the league have and its laughable. if were going to win we will do it with defense FORGET about any kind of consistency on offense its not going to happen weather it be the players or the OC .

[Smashmouth]

Holmes is a top 10 talent. I'm surprised someone who watches as much tape on every player in the league doesnt see it when you study Holmes. He's pretty much unstoppable. I'm not concerned with his numbers, you can flip it and make cases for guys like Wes Welker to be better than him because he catches 100 balls and 1000 yards every year but that doesnt make him a better receiver...its a system. And unfortunately for Holmes, he's played in run first systems with 2 young QBs. The year he broke out, was the same year that the Steelers took the riegns off Big Ben. Consequently, Holmes was a beast.

Its easy to see that nobody can guard Holmes 1 on 1. The skinny post is literally impossible to stop 1 on 1, beauty of that is, Mark throws that pass better than any.

And I know you know the market better than any GM, especially the Jets, and truly understand the value of a player in the NFL, but what do you care how much the Jets paid? Does it hurt your wallet? I for one, see investing in a threat like that to pair with Mark for the future is very wise investment and doesnt hurt my wallet at all...so I'm stoked to see these 2 hopefully become one of the best duo's in the league, pending Mark Sanchez doesnt continue to suck.

Will just have to see if he can carry the load this year and how much attention he gets from DC's . He will be our Number 1 lets see if he can produce the double digit TD's and the 12 to 1300 + yeads we need and reduce his league leading drop totals from a year ago. 900 yards and 5 TD's aint gonna cut it.

Also did you read that I said ?? I think Holmes has top ten talent he just has to become more consistent . Im basicly saying the same things you are in a different way. I can see his talent level Im just waiting for him to become consistent on a week to week basis. Everyone on these boards claims hes a big play guy that wins games single handedly and to be put in that category I would think you need more than 5 or 6 TD's a year. For him to earn his salary I would like to see consistent chain moving abilities every week.

[JustInFudge]

In summary what the jets have accomplished this offseason is surround their young QB with has beens and underacheivers. Compare that to what the other young Franchise QB's in the league have and its laughable. if were going to win we will do it with defense FORGET about any kind of consistency on offense its not going to happen weather it be the players or the OC .

Has beens, is yet to be seen...I think you're wrong considering Mason out performed our 3rd option last year. But who is this underacheiver you're referring to?

And do you really think that Mark Sanchez has worse weapons than Sam Bradford? Jake Locker? Andy Dalton? Blane Gabbert? Josh Freeman? Jay Cutler? Joe Flacco? Come'on man. You act like he's throwing to you out there.

Will just have to see if he can carry the load this year and how much attention he gets from DC's . He will be our Number 1 lets see if he can produce the double digit TD's and the 12 to 1300 + yeads we need and reduce his league leading drop totals from a year ago. 900 yards and 5 TD's aint gonna cut it.

Oh, so Braylon numbers in a full year are unacceptable to you? Gotcha.

[slats]

Dont be silly about it man, I made it clear that my worries were about age and they both have battled injuries throughout training camp. Do you think they are on the same page with Sanchez yet with the limited action they have had ?? or is practice and timing also not relevant in the Jets world along with age and time away from the game ? Look I'll be the first to tell ya I hope they tear it up but you cant just ignore the factor of age and time off from the game. Are you just mesmerized by Plax's great diving catch in the preseason ? or are you looking at the fact were going into the season with ONE receiever who actully knows the offense ? I would say thats not looking to good from a historical perspective.

Lets say worst case scenario Plax gets hurt or will miss extended time not only does that hurt us for those games but its that much more time he does not get to work with Sanchez. Mason has had bascily no time at all. What happens come playoff time ?? Your think these old guys can deal with not only the beatdown of a regular season but top notch defenses that will most likely be in their face ?

New Orleans Saints injury report: Receiver Lance Moore misses practice

Published: Monday, September 05, 2011, 2:16 PM Updated: Monday, September 05, 2011, 2:19 PM

By Mike Triplett, The Times-Picayune NOLA.com

New Orleans Saints receiver Lance Moore did not participate in practice Monday, leaving his status in doubt for Thursday night's game against the Green Bay Packers. But Coach Sean Payton didn't rule him out, and he said Moore got some "good work" on Sunday, when the Saints were not required to release an injury report.

Kicker Garrett Hartley (hip) and receiver Adrian Arrington (knee) also missed practice for the Saints on Monday. Defensive tackle Tom Johnson (calf) was limited.

That means defensive tackle Aubrayo Franklin, defensive end Cameron Jordan and quarterback Chase Daniel all fully participated after missing time with various injuries last week.

Players of all ages get hurt.

Smash, you've spelled out your position but it's getting about time to let it go until you have some genuine I told you so opportunities. Regardless of what you wanted the Jets to do, this is the group of WR's the Jets are taking into the season. There are certainly question marks related to both Plax and Mason -that's why they've come relatively cheap- but despite their respective ages they are both proven commodities on the field.

The whole league has a learning curve coming off of the lockout. We open against a team that has a new defensive coaching staff, and then play the hapless Jags and Raiders before the schedule gets rolling. They have some real time to get up to speed. Let's see what develops.

All that being said we have one back who is a threat to cath the ball out of the back field and hes nothing close to what he used to be. yeah we have Joe McCrap but you know Shotty wont use him and even if he does what has he proven ? hell he dosent even know how to work our TE into the game plan that and the fact hes a major pussy does not help.

In summary what the jets have accomplished this offseason is surround their young QB with has beens and underacheivers. Compare that to what the other young Franchise QB's in the league have and its laughable. if were going to win we will do it with defense FORGET about any kind of consistency on offense its not going to happen weather it be the players or the OC .

Ugh. All you're doing is demonstrating a need to bitch and moan. It's frustrating, because you're better than this.

Yeah, Schotty sucks. Either he gets it together in a real way this year or he's gone. That's my belief, and I'm not even a registered hater.

LT is still valuable as a receiver and in pass protection. Potentially the best 3rd down back in the league. For a team that likes to run, run, pass; that's invaluable. McKnight, whatever you think of him, will see the field as a RB and WR this year.

Jets have two TE's who can catch the football. Let's hope Schotty works them in.

Jets still have one of the best running games in the league.

Santonio Holmes will be a 1200/12 man this year.

[Smashmouth]

Has beens, is yet to be seen...I think you're wrong considering Mason out performed our 3rd option last year. But who is this underacheiver you're referring to?

And do you really think that Mark Sanchez has worse weapons than Sam Bradford? Jake Locker? Andy Dalton? Blane Gabbert? Josh Freeman? Jay Cutler? Joe Flacco? Come'on man. You act like he's throwing to you out there.

Oh, so Braylon numbers in a full year are unacceptable to you? Gotcha.

Number 1 our conversation is not about Braylon but I will say without Braylon we go home early last year and you know it. Funny how when we needed the Big play Sanchez chose to go to Braylon on the most critical throw of the year ...WHY ? because Braylon is big with long arms and can go up for the football. We dont have that in Holmes but we do have Plax which once again brings up the arguement can he stay healthy ?

Number 2 I was comparing Sanchez weapons to young QB;s that play on actual winning teams or what will be winning teams and QB's that were drafted when he was like Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford funny you didnt mention those guys and the talent that surrounds them. Dont compare first year QB's to the point Im trying to make 3-5 year and beyond is more reasonable and thats the time you should have your QB surrounded with talent not year one. When it comes to Flacco they went and got Boldin who was considered an elite type receiver which shows they at least attempted to make something happen plus he has Ray Rice. Go ahead tell me the Jets have more talent on offense than Stafford, Ryan, Flacco and Freeman . Our Offensive talent is probably righ were our offense ranks in the 20's not top ten, not even close.

But its cool we can disagree . I think besides the issues we have in talent we have a non QB friendly Idiot at OC which does not help matters either .

[Smashmouth]

Players of all ages get hurt.

Smash, you've spelled out your position but it's getting about time to let it go until you have some genuine I told you so opportunities. Regardless of what you wanted the Jets to do, this is the group of WR's the Jets are taking into the season. There are certainly question marks related to both Plax and Mason -that's why they've come relatively cheap- but despite their respective ages they are both proven commodities on the field.

The whole league has a learning curve coming off of the lockout. We open against a team that has a new defensive coaching staff, and then play the hapless Jags and Raiders before the schedule gets rolling. They have some real time to get up to speed. Let's see what develops.

Ugh. All you're doing is demonstrating a need to bitch and moan. It's frustrating, because you're better than this.

Yeah, Schotty sucks. Either he gets it together in a real way this year or he's gone. That's my belief, and I'm not even a registered hater.

LT is still valuable as a receiver and in pass protection. Potentially the best 3rd down back in the league. For a team that likes to run, run, pass; that's invaluable. McKnight, whatever you think of him, will see the field as a RB and WR this year.

Jets have two TE's who can catch the football. Let's hope Schotty works them in.

Jets still have one of the best running games in the league.

Santonio Holmes will be a 1200/12 man this year.

Slats you right man its time to see how things go and I hope with all my heart all works out in our favor.

My only issue with age Is not the factor of "an Injury" Its the factor of playing at a lesser level because your dealing with the bumps and bruises on a week to week basis which Young players heal from at a much faster rate and old players have to deal with them probably the entire season which can reduce performance.

[Barcs]

What are you baseing this on ? Santonio and Braylon both had 1 good year where we could say yeah they are top ten, the rest of the years both guys had were all below 1000 yards and 5 TD's . If the Jets wanted Braylon to walk thats fine Its their choice to make, but Santonio Holmes is NOT a top ten WR . He has the talent to be one but so far in his career he has lacked the consistency to be considered a top 10. Since hes the one the Jets picked to sign I hope to God he Lives up to the top 10 Billing since he was paid top 5 money which I think was totally ridiculous. At best Santonio should have been in the 8 mil range, At Best ! I do think Santonio has turned his life off the field around while Braylon has become worse. Hopefully this ordeal has taught Braylon a lesson in not being an Idiot.

The only reason Santonio hasn't been top 10 consistently is because he's been on run heavy teams his entire career. His athleticism and ability to make those sick impossible catches and get yards after the catch, puts him in the top 10 skillwise, regardless of his stats. Last year we ran a 1a and 1b receiver set. Holmes wasn't always the primary target, but this year I'm pretty sure he will be, depending on how Plax plays.

In summary what the jets have accomplished this offseason is surround their young QB with has beens and underacheivers. Compare that to what the other young Franchise QB's in the league have and its laughable. if were going to win we will do it with defense FORGET about any kind of consistency on offense its not going to happen weather it be the players or the OC .

Plax is an underachiever? Where do you get that idea from? He's won a superbowl against an undefeated Pats team, probably would have had 2 if not for the incident. Mason and Plax are solid veterans that if anything will HELP Sanchez much moreso than young guys. These guys have played in the big games, they know what it's like to have pressure. I think they will do nothing but improve Sanchez, especially guys like Mason.

Funny how when we needed the Big play Sanchez chose to go to Braylon on the most critical throw of the year ...WHY ?

Most critical throw of the year? Which one are you talking about? Both made critical catches, but Holmes made game changers and game winners. Not saying Braylon wasn't good, but saying he had the most critical catch, while negating the bunch of amazing Holmes catches and TDs that won games is a bit short sighted.

To me, the most critical throw of the year was against the Steelers when we blew that 1st and goal sequence and where was Edwards then?

[JustInFudge]

Number 1 our conversation is not about Braylon but I will say without Braylon we go home early last year and you know it. Funny how when we needed the Big play Sanchez chose to go to Braylon on the most critical throw of the year ...WHY ? because Braylon is big with long arms and can go up for the football. We dont have that in Holmes but we do have Plax which once again brings up the arguement can he stay healthy ?

Number 2 I was comparing Sanchez weapons to young QB;s that play on actual winning teams or what will be winning teams and QB's that were drafted when he was like Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford funny you didnt mention those guys and the talent that surrounds them. Dont compare first year QB's to the point Im trying to make 3-5 year and beyond is more reasonable and thats the time you should have your QB surrounded with talent not year one. When it comes to Flacco they went and got Boldin who was considered an elite type receiver which shows they at least attempted to make something happen plus he has Ray Rice. Go ahead tell me the Jets have more talent on offense than Stafford, Ryan, Flacco and Freeman . Our Offensive talent is probably righ were our offense ranks in the 20's not top ten, not even close.

But its cool we can disagree . I think besides the issues we have in talent we have a non QB friendly Idiot at OC which does not help matters either .

Thats weird, refresh my memory how many game winning catches Braylon had? Then tell me how many Holmes had. Holmes has the most game winnning catches in the history of the NFL. This argument is silly. They guy has one of the most clutch catches in the history of the league.

And I'll compare whatever I want to compare. You made general statement that I crushed and now you are back tracking. The only team that you mentioned that the Jets dont have more talent on offense is the Lions and thats strickly because of CJ. I'll take our offense over all the rest you mentioned minus Atlanta. And all those QB's are better than Sanchez so it makes it easy to have a better offense.

You seem to lack the understanding that the Jets are trying to improve their sh*tty passing attack. It sucks. Partially because Sanchez does, but you cant go out and replace him can you? You know what you can do? Go out and get better targets. Thats what the Jetd did. Whether you think thats the case or not, is yet to be seen. I'm confident. And for all this chemistry b.s. you preach, our offense was a whole 1 TD better in 10 from 09.

[Lego My Lageman]

If I dont see Plax, Cumberland, Keller, and Holmes as our set in the Redzone im going to Jets Camp to be the OC

[Jetsfan80]

Dont be silly about it man, I made it clear that my worries were about age and they both have battled injuries throughout training camp. Do you think they are on the same page with Sanchez yet with the limited action they have had ?? or is practice and timing also not relevant in the Jets world along with age and time away from the game ? Look I'll be the first to tell ya I hope they tear it up but you cant just ignore the factor of age and time off from the game. Are you just mesmerized by Plax's great diving catch in the preseason ? or are you looking at the fact were going into the season with ONE receiever who actully knows the offense ? I would say thats not looking to good from a historical perspective.

Lets say worst case scenario Plax gets hurt or will miss extended time not only does that hurt us for those games but its that much more time he does not get to work with Sanchez. Mason has had bascily no time at all. What happens come playoff time ?? Your think these old guys can deal with not only the beatdown of a regular season but top notch defenses that will most likely be in their face ?

All that being said we have one back who is a threat to cath the ball out of the back field and hes nothing close to what he used to be. yeah we have Joe McCrap but you know Shotty wont use him and even if he does what has he proven ? hell he dosent even know how to work our TE into the game plan that and the fact hes a major pussy does not help.

In summary what the jets have accomplished this offseason is surround their young QB with has beens and underacheivers. Compare that to what the other young Franchise QB's in the league have and its laughable. if were going to win we will do it with defense FORGET about any kind of consistency on offense its not going to happen weather it be the players or the OC .

In summary, all that matters is Sanchez. The receivers he's throwing to are largely irrelevant. Top QB's make receivers more often than not, not the other way around. I'm far more concerned about Sanchez's progression (or lack thereof) than I am the receivers he's throwing to.

[Smashmouth]

The only reason Santonio hasn't been top 10 consistently is because he's been on run heavy teams his entire career. His athleticism and ability to make those sick impossible catches and get yards after the catch, puts him in the top 10 skillwise, regardless of his stats. Last year we ran a 1a and 1b receiver set. Holmes wasn't always the primary target, but this year I'm pretty sure he will be, depending on how Plax plays.

Plax is an underachiever? Where do you get that idea from? He's won a superbowl against an undefeated Pats team, probably would have had 2 if not for the incident. Mason and Plax are solid veterans that if anything will HELP Sanchez much moreso than young guys. These guys have played in the big games, they know what it's like to have pressure. I think they will do nothing but improve Sanchez, especially guys like Mason.

Most critical throw of the year? Which one are you talking about? Both made critical catches, but Holmes made game changers and game winners. Not saying Braylon wasn't good, but saying he had the most critical catch, while negating the bunch of amazing Holmes catches and TDs that won games is a bit short sighted.

To me, the most critical throw of the year was against the Steelers when we blew that 1st and goal sequence and where was Edwards then? What ???

Show me where in my post I refer to Plax as and under achiever ?? Its pretty obvious he was under the " has been " category due to age. I think Santonio has emense talent but has underacheived . He has 1200 12 talent but consistently puts up 900 5 numbers and its NOT just because of the Jets being a running team. Anything said otherwise needs to be proven first.

[Smashmouth]

Thats weird, refresh my memory how many game winning catches Braylon had? Then tell me how many Holmes had. Holmes has the most game winnning catches in the history of the NFL. This argument is silly. They guy has one of the most clutch catches in the history of the league.

And I'll compare whatever I want to compare. You made general statement that I crushed and now you are back tracking. The only team that you mentioned that the Jets dont have more talent on offense is the Lions and thats strickly because of CJ. I'll take our offense over all the rest you mentioned minus Atlanta. And all those QB's are better than Sanchez so it makes it easy to have a better offense.

You seem to lack the understanding that the Jets are trying to improve their sh*tty passing attack. It sucks. Partially because Sanchez does, but you cant go out and replace him can you? You know what you can do? Go out and get better targets. Thats what the Jetd did. Whether you think thats the case or not, is yet to be seen. I'm confident. And for all this chemistry b.s. you preach, our offense was a whole 1 TD better in 10 from 09.

Really the most in the history of the NFL ? Wow I wish I could make up sh!t like to to prove my point LOL.

[Smashmouth]

.You seem to lack the understanding that the Jets are trying to improve their sh*tty passing attack. It sucks. Partially because Sanchez does, but you cant go out and replace him can you? You know what you can do? Go out and get better targets. Thats what the Jetd did. Whether you think thats the case or not, is yet to be seen. I'm confident. And for all this chemistry b.s. you preach, our offense was a whole 1 TD better in 10 from 09.

Ahh I see I lack the understanding ?

So its ok to Sign 2 Old men one who has not played in 2 years and is 34 and one who is 38 years old (everyone around the NFL talking about how the short offseason will hurt teams BUT NOT THE JETS)

Have no real practice time with those guys in a short offseason

Both got hurt in preseason and one who barely practiced at all

But My understanding is a bit off because all the things you need to be successful as an offense still have not been met most notably actully playing together. This preseason alone proves my point that these guys will have a rough go of it since both guys have already missed valuable time to get in sync with their QB. But hey **** it were a SB caliber team .

And Most of all I forgot that The Jets are Immune to all Logic when it comes to the god damn NFL, IMMUNE I TELL YA !!! Age, lack of practice, Lack of Knowledge (offense) ALL IRRELEVANT for we are the NY JETS FANS. But hey dont forget we have the Greatest clutch WR in the Histroy of the game on our side . LOL . My god what one game will get ya these days.

[jason423]

Holmes per game averages in the 3 years leading up to his new deal were:

4.3 RPG, 65 YPG, 0.38TDPG, and 53.6% targets caught

With the exception of TDs, that pretty much tracked him with the guys that make up the bottom half of the top 10 (Roddy White, Greg Jennings, Reggie Wayne, Lee Evans, etc....) at the times they signed their deals. Jennings and Whites numbers are a bit skewed because they didnt play much, but he essentially is tracking with top 10 guys.

Edwards was:

3.3RPG, 52.7 YPG, 0.32TDPG, and 46% targets caught

He tracked with players like Deion Branch, Nate Burleson, and Kevin Walter, all higher end (at a time) number 2s.

[JetsFanInDenver]

yea but nobody really knew for sure-besides, there's always the next fock up coming right around the corner

By that logic Santonio Holmes is just one strike away. How did we give him a 5 year 50 million contract.

And not sure what happens in Goddell court of law if Plax were to get into trouble ? But we still sign him up for the entire season for 3 mill guaranteed

If teams were just focused on the next eff-up they would never be able to give a long term contract to any NFL player!

What i don't get is why is it that Braylon is the only player considered by the majority to likely get into trouble when we are throwing good money at players who have got into a lot more serious trouble in the past!

[Smashmouth]

Holmes per game averages in the 3 years leading up to his new deal were:

4.3 RPG, 65 YPG, 0.38TDPG, and 53.6% targets caught

With the exception of TDs, that pretty much tracked him with the guys that make up the bottom half of the top 10 (Roddy White, Greg Jennings, Reggie Wayne, Lee Evans, etc....) at the times they signed their deals. Jennings and Whites numbers are a bit skewed because they didnt play much, but he essentially is tracking with top 10 guys.

Edwards was:

3.3RPG, 52.7 YPG, 0.32TDPG, and 46% targets caught

He tracked with players like Deion Branch, Nate Burleson, and Kevin Walter, all higher end (at a time) number 2s.

jason these are numbers leading up to the deal not numbers at this time . Right ? Its based on when players signed deals not compared to actual stats of other players at the time. I would be willing to bet if you compared the last 3 years of all WR's on average Holmes is somewhere in the 15-20 range close to where Edwards is. Reason I prefer Edwards is because of his size.

[JetsFanInDenver]

It's not the fact that he was facing suspension that scared off most teams, its the fact that Braylon has gotten in trouble, not once, but TWICE since his run in with Lebrons buddy. As I said before, the guy is one of the most gifted athletes in the league and has all the potential in the world to be one of the top receivers in the league, however, he has consistently shown that he can't be trusted to keep his nose clean and that has hurt his market drastically.

Did he go to prison for 18 months ? And yet we give guaranteed money to guys who have proved bigger thugturds!

And one incident was a DWI. Who over here has not got a DWI or is friends with someone who has got a DWI ?

And the other incident was when his friends and/or cousins were involved. Edwards was not even questioned. How is Edwards responsible for his friends/cousins behavior ?

Is there anything other incident i am missing ?

[slats]

But My understanding is a bit off because all the things you need to be successful as an offense still have not been met most notably actully playing together. This preseason alone proves my point that these guys will have a rough go of it since both guys have already missed valuable time to get in sync with their QB. But hey **** it were a SB caliber team .

And Most of all I forgot that The Jets are Immune to all Logic when it comes to the god damn NFL, IMMUNE I TELL YA !!! Age, lack of practice, Lack of Knowledge (offense) ALL IRRELEVANT for we are the NY JETS FANS. But hey dont forget we have the Greatest clutch WR in the Histroy of the game on our side . LOL . My god what one game will get ya these days.

Yes, they have to learn a new offense, but how long do you honestly expect the learning curve to be? Just up until they get hurt?

Both these guys are seasoned pros who have already demonstrated that they can change teams and continue to perform at a high level. Mason had 1000 yards his first year in Baltimore, Plaxico had 1200 yards his first year on the jints. These are two men capable of learning and thriving in a new system.

And fwiw, Holmes first year with the Jets prorates out to @ 1000 yards and 8 TD's had he played a full season. Pretty good numbers for a guy playing with a second year QB, in a ground & pound offense, for a moron coordinator.

[Smashmouth]

By that logic Santonio Holmes is just one strike away. How did we give him a 5 year 50 million contract.

And not sure what happens in Goddell court of law if Plax were to get into trouble ? But we still sign him up for the entire season for 3 mill guaranteed

If teams were just focused on the next eff-up they would never be able to give a long term contract to any NFL player!

What i don't get is why is it that Braylon is the only player considered by the majority to likely get into trouble when we are throwing good money at players who have got into a lot more serious trouble in the past!

Because Braylon acted like an idiot this offseason not once but twice. He was his own worst enemy. Sure if Holmes smokes a doobie hes gone for a year but that would be beyond stupid with random testing. No one cant tell a player he cant have a drink because its legal so Braylon can drink all he wants. The problem is the idiot does not know how to call a cab thats probably quite easy for him to do.

[RutgersJetFan]

I honestly think his off the field issues had little to do with it. I think it has everything to do with he and his agent looking back at being the number 3 pick in the NFL draft back in 2005 and thinking it means something in 2011. David Carr is a former number 1 draft pick. He gets paid to be a backup. Im a Braylon fan but they think hes a number 1. We liked to say he was a 1. But the numbers say he isnt a 1. They want to point to numbers he put up back in 2007 which is totally irrelevant to a contract signed in 2011. Hes a good number 2. Number 2 receivers dont get 5 year 40 million dollar deals, with half of it guaranteed. They get 4 year 20-25 million dollar deals with maybe a third guaranteed. That isnt what Edwards wants.

To get the money he wants he has to put up numbers like he did in 2007. That would never happen in NY because of his role on the team. So he went out and found anyone willing to give him a short term deal that might throw the ball alot and allow him to pad his statistics. It also pays to hold off on free agency until 2012 because they knew Fitzgerald would reset the market. That deal alone will see even the number 2 player salaries rise starting in 2012. Braylons never done anything as bad as other players in the NFL to warrant no interest. No interest comes from a high price tag with nothing to back up the price tag request and an agent that will make a circus out of the situation if Edwards were to ever reach those 2007 numbers again.

Infinite rep.

[slats]

Did he go to prison for 18 months ? And yet we give guaranteed money to guys who have proved bigger thugturds!

And one incident was a DWI. Who over here has not got a DWI or is friends with someone who has got a DWI ?

And the other incident was when his friends and/or cousins were involved. Edwards was not even questioned. How is Edwards responsible for his friends/cousins behavior ?

Is there anything other incident i am missing ?

Any one incident could be explained away, but what you have here is a pattern of incidents. The bar fight and mysterious early morning one car accident coming at a time when he was a UFA looking for work. A time when he really needed to be as squeaky clean as possible to land the deal he felt he deserved - and instead he had not one, but two questionable, probably alcohol related incidents.

It doesn't matter if you happen to hang around with a bunch of drunks or not, that's irresponsible behavior. Not the kind of guy you want to hand large sums of money to.

Plaxico is also an idiot, but he did not have a history of off-field problems that I can recall. Just one really stupid one. I think it's a safe bet that he now understands he can't bring a gun into a NYC club, and that carrying a gun in the waistband of sweatpants is a particularly poor way to transport a weapon.

[Smashmouth]

Yes, they have to learn a new offense, but how long do you honestly expect the learning curve to be? Just up until they get hurt?

Both these guys are seasoned pros who have already demonstrated that they can change teams and continue to perform at a high level. Mason had 1000 yards his first year in Baltimore, Plaxico had 1200 yards his first year on the jints. These are two men capable of learning and thriving in a new system.

And fwiw, Holmes first year with the Jets prorates out to @ 1000 yards and 8 TD's had he played a full season. Pretty good numbers for a guy playing with a second year QB, in a ground & pound offense, for a moron coordinator.

Yep slats I checked those numbers ....actully how they perfromed the first year in a new offense and they did well. But that was how many years ago ?

[JetsFanInDenver]

Because Braylon acted like an idiot this offseason not once but twice. He was his own worst enemy. Sure if Holmes smokes a doobie hes gone for a year but that would be beyond stupid with random testing. No one cant tell a player he cant have a drink because its legal so Braylon can drink all he wants. The problem is the idiot does not know how to call a cab thats probably quite easy for him to do.

Yeah but to get to that stage I am sure he did do quite a few things wrong quite a few times.

Nobody is saying what Braylon did off the field was correct. But if we set the bar at a DWI a lot of NFL players in this league will have to go home. And he was very productive on the field.

[slats]

Yep slats I checked those numbers ....actully how they perfromed the first year in a new offense and they did well. But that was how many years ago ?

Mason did back when he was just a little bit younger than Plaxico.

[Smashmouth]

Yeah but to get to that stage I am sure he did do quite a few things wrong quite a few times.

Nobody is saying what Braylon did off the field was correct. But if we set the bar at a DWI a lot of NFL players in this league will have to go home. And he was very productive on the field.

hey look I wanted Braylon back but he hurt himself .. When It comes to Santonio, using drugs is Illegal he smoked a bone and got 4 games if he smokes another bone he gets a year .... Im not sure if he was a repeat offender and got 1 game first then 4 .

[Smashmouth]

Mason did back when he was just a little bit younger than Plaxico.

well Slats I hope they have something left in the tank come playoff time I really do . If they dont then its back to square one next off season.

[JustInFudge]

So per Smash - wr continuity is the most crucial element to a SB run. Got it. Good to know.

[Smashmouth]

So per Smash - wr continuity is the most crucial element to a SB run. Got it. Good to know.

The More you Post the more ridiclous you look.

[Smashmouth]

Per JIF - Santonio Holmes is the greatest clutch WR in the history of the NFL and his all time NFL leading Game winning catches is proof of that.

Consider yourselves lucky Jets Fans, JIF does not let these top secret stats out easily you usually have to pry them out of him. hes a bitch like that

[jason423]

jason these are numbers leading up to the deal not numbers at this time . Right ? Its based on when players signed deals not compared to actual stats of other players at the time. I would be willing to bet if you compared the last 3 years of all WR's on average Holmes is somewhere in the 15-20 range close to where Edwards is. Reason I prefer Edwards is because of his size.

Yes its based on when the deals themselves were signed. In both Edwards' and Holmes' case its 2008, 2009, and 2010. Roddy White would be 2006, 2007, 2008. Deion Branch was 2003, 2004, and 2005. That seems to be how teams look at things in trying to help project where the player should be and what kind of contract to award him.

I just did a quick calculation for all players who ranked in the top 80 in YPG in each of the last 3 years, son only 33 players qualified. Here are the rankings:

Receptions per game: Holmes- 24th, Edwards 32nd (Welker ranked 1st)

Yards per game: Holmes- 14th, Edwards 28th (A. Johnson ranked 1st and its not even close)

TDs per game- Holmes- 19th, Edwards 27th (Fitzgerald is number 1)

% targets caught: Holmes- 26th, Edwards 33rd (Welker is number 1)

Yards after catch: Holmes- 9th, Edwards 14th (TE Owen Daniels ranked 1)

In terms of comparable players at the time of contract Roddy White ranks 5, 2, 5, 22, and 22 in the categories. Jennings is 17, 5, 5, 8, and 21. Thats the jump the Jets are hoping for based on what he has done previously.

[Smashmouth]

Yes its based on when the deals themselves were signed. In both Edwards' and Holmes' case its 2008, 2009, and 2010. Roddy White would be 2006, 2007, 2008. Deion Branch was 2003, 2004, and 2005. That seems to be how teams look at things in trying to help project where the player should be and what kind of contract to award him.

I just did a quick calculation for all players who ranked in the top 80 in YPG in each of the last 3 years, son only 33 players qualified. Here are the rankings:

Receptions per game: Holmes- 24th, Edwards 32nd (Welker ranked 1st)

Yards per game: Holmes- 14th, Edwards 28th (A. Johnson ranked 1st and its not even close)

TDs per game- Holmes- 19th, Edwards 27th (Fitzgerald is number 1)

% targets caught: Holmes- 26th, Edwards 33rd (Welker is number 1)

Yards after catch: Holmes- 9th, Edwards 14th (TE Owen Daniels ranked 1)

In terms of comparable players at the time of contract Roddy White ranks 5, 2, 5, 22, and 22 in the categories. Jennings is 17, 5, 5, 8, and 21. Thats the jump the Jets are hoping for based on what he has done previously.

I think Holmes can be a 1200 12 guy and I think we will need that out of him.... not so much the yardage as the TD's I would take 900 yards and 12 TD's any day .

[JetsFanInDenver]

Any one incident could be explained away, but what you have here is a pattern of incidents. The bar fight and mysterious early morning one car accident coming at a time when he was a UFA looking for work. A time when he really needed to be as squeaky clean as possible to land the deal he felt he deserved - and instead he had not one, but two questionable, probably alcohol related incidents.

It doesn't matter if you happen to hang around with a bunch of drunks or not, that's irresponsible behavior. Not the kind of guy you want to hand large sums of money to.

Plaxico is also an idiot, but he did not have a history of off-field problems that I can recall. Just one really stupid one. I think it's a safe bet that he now understands he can't bring a gun into a NYC club, and that carrying a gun in the waistband of sweatpants is a particularly poor way to transport a weapon.

I am not saying Braylon has had no issues off field. But at the same time Santonio has had his share of troubles himself. You do not get to one strike and you are out for a while just like that. Issues like domestic abuse, drug possession and so on.

These are legal troubles that Holmes has had according to Wikipedia. Not sure if its complete but sure gives anyone a good idea:

Holmes has acknowledged selling drugs on the street corner of his hometown of Belle Glade, Florida as a teenager; he says that his mother's influence and a desire to play professional football made him decide to stop.^[13]

Holmes was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida on May 27, 2006 for disorderly conduct.^[14] Charges were subsequently dropped after Holmes paid a fine. Holmes was arrested for a second time on June 18, 2006 for domestic violence and assault in Columbus, Ohio.^[15]

On July 7, 2006, Holmes appeared in Franklin County Court in Columbus, Ohio for both a pre-trial hearing regarding the domestic case and a hearing regarding the traffic ticket. He pled no contest to the traffic ticket and agreed to pay a fine. While Lashae Boone, the mother of Holmes' daughter and the victim in the assault case, requested that the domestic violence and assault charges be dropped, the prosecutor refused. Boone and their daughter accompanied Holmes to court. The charges were later dropped.^[16]

On October 23, 2008, Holmes was arrested in Pittsburgh and cited by officers for possession of marijuana.^[17][18] He released an apology after missing a game, stating that he wished to "focus all of [his] efforts on helping our team win on the field and achieve its ultimate goal."^[19]

On March 24, 2010, Anshonae Mills filed a lawsuit against Holmes over a March 7 incident in which she alleges Holmes threw a glass at her in an Orlando nightclub, resulting in a cut above her eye. Initially, Mills did not pursue charges, claiming Holmes and the police intimidated her into it, but the case has been reopened. Subsequently, after a Twitter comment criticizing the nightclub incident, Holmes told the follower to "kill urself." He later Tweeted it was time to "wake n bake," a reference to marijuana.^[20] Holmes alleges his account was hacked and it was not him making the comments.^[21]

On April 29, 2010, according to a report filed by authorities at Pittsburgh International Airport, a flight attendant told police that Holmes wouldn't turn off his iPod when requested and asked that officers speak to him. Holmes got off the Colgan Air flight and spoke to the officers, who reminded him to comply with regulations, but did not charge the wide receiver with anything. Holmes later talked to Jets head coach Rex Ryan about the incident.^[22]

At the end of the day there's a double standard. We choose to ignore the off field issues of some players while some others do not get that break.

[JetsFanInDenver]

delete. duplicate post.

[slats]

I am not saying Braylon has had no issues off field. But at the same time Santonio has had his share of troubles himself. You do not get to one strike and you are out for a while just like that. Issues like domestic abuse, drug possession and so on.

These are legal troubles that Holmes has had according to Wikipedia. Not sure if its complete but sure gives anyone a good idea:

At the end of the day there's a double standard. We choose to ignore the off field issues of some players while some others do not get that break.

Not really.

Holmes hasn't had a single incident since he joined the Jets.

Braylon joined the Jets while on probation for an assault charge conviction (a far cry from an unresolved lawsuit), and then had his DUI. While waiting out the lockout as a free agent, he got involved in another bar fight and had the mystery accident a couple weeks apart.

1.) Holmes is the better player

2.) Holmes has begun to demonstrate an ability to learn from his mistakes and grow up