The Colts

[Gainzo]

I can't recall a team that has made the playoffs so many times in a row being completely unprepared when their all world QB gets injured.

Where do you place the blame? For me it has to be on Polian. He drafted Painter in 2009, cut Sorgi in 2010 (who he also drafted), then when Peyton can't play signs 83 year old Kerry Collins because Painter is a stiff.

Also doesn't help that the Colts built their D based on playing with a lead.

The Colts have the Steelers on Sunday, travel to Tampa after that, then face KC in what could be a match up of 0-4 teams.

It amazes me how someone as accomplished as Polian could drop the ball so badly.

[ZachEY]

The game against KC could be the Luck bowl.

[Klecko73isGod]

I can't recall a team that has made the playoffs so many times in a row being completely unprepared when their all world QB gets injured.

Where do you place the blame? For me it has to be on Polian. He drafted Painter in 2009, cut Sorgi in 2010 (who he also drafted), then when Peyton can't play signs 83 year old Kerry Collins because Painter is a stiff.

Also doesn't help that the Colts built their D based on playing with a lead.

The Colts have the Steelers on Sunday, travel to Tampa after that, then face KC in what could be a match up of 0-4 teams.

It amazes me how someone as accomplished as Polian could drop the ball so badly.

I think this is the biggest issue with Peyton being out.

They completely depend on Peyton constantly putting pressure on the opposing offense to make Freeney and Mathis as effective as possible.

If you don't have to pass against them, you can beat them, even with Manning. Its the reason a team like the Jaguars always seemed to beat them at least once a year.

[JoeWillie]

Very few teams can overcome a devastating injury to their starting QB and be successful ... very few.

That said, however, I think you make a good point about Polian and the fact that maybe he took too much for granted Manning's durability and not start thinking about the future or even a more suitable backup.

That will probably end this year though when they go 2-14 and draft Andrew Luck.

[Gainzo]

Very few teams can overcome a devastating injury to their starting QB and be successful ... very few.

That said, however, I think you make a good point about Polian and the fact that maybe he took too much for granted Manning's durability and not start thinking about the future or even a more suitable backup.

That will probably end this year though when they go 2-14 and draft Andrew Luck.

There have been examples over the years of teams being successful/average with backup QB's. The Colts are in new territory of complete suck without their starter based on their regular seasons since Peyton was drafted.

1998: 3-13* (same record as 1997) Peyton's rookie year

1999: 13-3

2000: 10-6

2001: 6-10*

2002: 10-6

2003: 12-4

2004: 12-4

2005: 14-2

2006: 12-4

2007: 13-3

2008: 12-4

2009: 14-2

2010: 10-6

Crazy stuff when you think about it, then again the Colts left the AFCE in 2002 so that has to come into play.

*Only season Colts missed the playoffs. Wow.

[JoeWillie]

There have been examples over the years of teams being successful/average with backup QB's. The Colts are in new territory of complete suck without their starter based on their regular seasons since Peyton was drafted.

1998: 3-13* (same record as 1997) Peyton's rookie year

1999: 13-3

2000: 10-6

2001: 6-10*

2002: 10-6

2003: 12-4

2004: 12-4

2005: 14-2

2006: 12-4

2007: 13-3

2008: 12-4

2009: 14-2

2010: 10-6

Crazy stuff when you think about it, then again the Colts left the AFCE in 2002 so that has to come into play.

*Only season Colts missed the playoffs. Wow.

Yeah, I agree with your basic point.

Also, there have been some examples of teams who have been able to be competitive with backup QB's, even a few who have actually been able to make the playoffs, but they are very few and far between who have had to play an entire season or most of it with a backup and still been able to win consistently.

Just goes to show you how valuable Manning is to that team, that as you said, they could be so bad without him after being elite for so long with him.

[Gainzo]

Yeah, I agree with your basic point.

Also, there have been some examples of teams who have been able to be competitive with backup QB's, even a few who have actually been able to make the playoffs, but they are very few and far between who have had to play an entire season or most of it with a backup and still been able to win consistently.

Just goes to show you how valuable Manning is to that team, that as you said, they could be so bad without him after being elite for so long with him.

Jeff Hosteller, Frank Reich and Doug Williams are the exception to the rule as they took over and won big games. In the salary cap era it was Kurt Warner & Tom Brady, but the prior season both the Rams & Pats stunk.

I'm only talking mediocre teams. 4 wins would be great for a crappy team who lost their starting QB. A team that has won 10+ games since 2002 is a completely different story.

[JoeWillie]

Jeff Hosteller, Frank Reich and Doug Williams are the exception to the rule as they took over and won big games. In the salary cap era it was Kurt Warner & Tom Brady, but the prior season both the Rams & Pats stunk.

I'm only talking mediocre teams. 4 wins would be great for a crappy team who lost their starting QB. A team that has won 10+ games since 2002 is a completely different story.

Yeah, most of those guys came in very late though.

I think the Giants were something like 11-1 with Simms before he got hurt... same with Reich.

The Williams situation was a little different in that many people thought he should have been starting ahead of Rypien to begin with, so there really wasn't that big of a discrepency in ability there.

As you point, Brady and Warner are big exceptions to the rule.

[Gainzo]

Yeah, most of those guys came in very late though.

I think the Giants were something like 11-1 with Simms before he got hurt... same with Reich.

The Williams situation was a little different in that many people thought he should have been starting ahead of Rypien to begin with, so there really wasn't that big of a discrepency in ability there.

As you point, Brady and Warner are big exceptions to the rule.

I believe we are both on the same page when it comes to the 2011 Colts. Without Peyton they pretty much suck. For a team that has averaged around 11 wins a year since 2002 that is terrible and all the blame is on Polian and the ownership.

[Integrity28]

I can't recall a team that has made the playoffs so many times in a row being completely unprepared when their all world QB gets injured.

Where do you place the blame? For me it has to be on Polian. He drafted Painter in 2009, cut Sorgi in 2010 (who he also drafted), then when Peyton can't play signs 83 year old Kerry Collins because Painter is a stiff.

Also doesn't help that the Colts built their D based on playing with a lead.

The Colts have the Steelers on Sunday, travel to Tampa after that, then face KC in what could be a match up of 0-4 teams.

It amazes me how someone as accomplished as Polian could drop the ball so badly.

Good point. I was explaining this to someone the other day, a Patriots fan... frankly, the same could be said right now for the Patriots. If Brady goes down, and they stop scoring 35+ points per game and racking up 5+ minute drives and 500+ yards of offense per game... what is your defense going to do then, when they might actually have to be on the field more than the O?

I think the reality is, there is no "planning" for when your "one of the best QBs of all time" QB is out.

[RutgersJetFan]

It amazes me that the MVP award has even been a remote debate the past few years watching this crap. Sad, sad sight.

[Gainzo]

Good point. I was explaining this to someone the other day, a Patriots fan... frankly, the same could be said right now for the Patriots. If Brady goes down, and they stop scoring 35+ points per game and racking up 5+ minute drives and 500+ yards of offense per game... what is your defense going to do then, when they might actually have to be on the field more than the O?

I think the reality is, there is no "planning" for when your "one of the best QBs of all time" QB is out.

If Brady went down next week the Pats would probably win 7 games with Hoyer at QB. The Colts may win 3-4 games this year unless Manning comes back.

[JoeWillie]

I believe we are both on the same page when it comes to the 2011 Colts. Without Peyton they pretty much suck. For a team that has averaged around 11 wins a year since 2002 that is terrible and all the blame is on Polian and the ownership.

Yep, agreed.

[Gainzo]

Yep, agreed.

If Sanchez went down you guys be OK with Brunell. He is old as sh*t but knows the offense. With your running game and D I would expect 8 or 9 wins and maybe a playoff spot.

Before anyone calls me a Pats homer please look up my posts on Sanchez.

[Integrity28]

If Brady went down next week the Pats would probably win 7 games with Hoyer at QB. The Colts may win 3-4 games this year unless Manning comes back.

Yeah, and with Brady the Pats probably win 14. While the Colts probably win their usual 11-12 games with Manning. Which pretty much proves my point.

[Gainzo]

Yeah, and with Brady the Pats probably win 14. While the Colts probably win their usual 11-12 games with Manning. Which pretty much proves my point.

What is your point? The Pats lost Brady for the season in 2008 and went 11-5*. My point is the Colts are all about Manning and they suck donkey balls without him.

*The only reason the Pats won 11 games is because they played the NFC & AFC West that year. No playoffs and split against the Jets and Dolphins.

[Maxman]

Very few teams can overcome a devastating injury to their starting QB and be successful ... very few.

That said, however, I think you make a good point about Polian and the fact that maybe he took too much for granted Manning's durability and not start thinking about the future or even a more suitable backup.

That will probably end this year though when they go 2-14 and draft Andrew Luck.

The Jets with Sanchez 13 and 3.

The Jets without Sanchez 14 and 2.

Joking...people I am joking, calm down.

[Gainzo]

The Jets with Sanchez 13 and 3.

The Jets without Sanchez 14 and 2.

Joking...people I am joking, calm down.

You want to say 16-0 right?

Back on topic: Did Polian think Peyton was Superman?

[Obrien2Toon]

well, you're replacing the greatest QB of all-time. This Colts team debacle cements that status in my mind.

But yes, replacing Sorgi for Painter was a terrible decision.

Painter's sucked in college and was overrated. Most of his hype came from his high school days.

[Maxman]

You want to say 16-0 right?

Back on topic: Did Polian think Peyton was Superman?

No I don't think there is any chance the Jets would go 16 and 0. They would rest the starters in week 17.

Back on topic -- Peyton was Superman, why would Polian have any reason to believe otherwise?

[Gainzo]

No I don't think there is any chance the Jets would go 16 and 0. They would rest the starters in week 17.

Back on topic -- Peyton was Superman, why would Polian have any reason to believe otherwise?

You know how it goes in sports. Sometimes (Vinny 1999, Brady 2008) the starting QB is done for the season in the 1st game. Peyton had an injury and didn't even play. The Colts front office screwed up.

Kerry Collins is my age. That isn't a good thing.

[CTM]

What is your point? The Pats lost Brady for the season in 2008 and went 11-5*. My point is the Colts are all about Manning and they suck donkey balls without him.

*The only reason the Pats won 11 games is because they played the NFC & AFC West that year. No playoffs and split against the Jets and Dolphins.

THe * was the key.. the patsd were not a good team that year, neither were the dolphins, who got undressed by the ravens. Brady going down would have you finish last in the division this season, most likely

[CTM]

You know how it goes in sports. Sometimes (Vinny 1999, Brady 2008) the starting QB is done for the season in the 1st game. Peyton had an injury and didn't even play. The Colts front office screwed up.

Kerry Collins is my age. That isn't a good thing.

Don't know why they didn't atleast go after Garrad. that team could win 4-6 games with him.. Maybe they are going for Luck

[Gainzo]

THe * was the key.. the patsd were not a good team that year, neither were the dolphins, who got undressed by the ravens. Brady going down would have you finish last in the division this season, most likely

Really? I doubt that.

[Maxman]

You know how it goes in sports. Sometimes (Vinny 1999, Brady 2008) the starting QB is done for the season in the 1st game. Peyton had an injury and didn't even play. The Colts front office screwed up.

Kerry Collins is my age. That isn't a good thing.

Kerry Collins can out drink you, that is the most disturbing part.

[Integrity28]

What is your point? The Pats lost Brady for the season in 2008 and went 11-5*. My point is the Colts are all about Manning and they suck donkey balls without him.

*The only reason the Pats won 11 games is because they played the NFC & AFC West that year. No playoffs and split against the Jets and Dolphins.

...and my point is that the Pats are built the same way as the Colts. To play bend but don't break defense with a lead. So any dumping you want to do on Polian is ironic, because the team you root for is in the same boat if they lose Brady. Only real difference is Belichick trumps Caldwell without question.

Colts with PM = 11-12 wins, without 3-4 wins (7-8 less)

Pats with TB = 13-14 wins, without 6-7 wins (7-8 less)

This is the outcome of our back-and-forth, with win totals kicked in by both of us. Didn't realize you couldn't follow along.

[Gainzo]

...and my point is that the Pats are built the same way as the Colts. To play bend but don't break defense with a lead. So any dumping you want to do on Polian is ironic, because the team you root for is in the same boat if they lose Brady. Only real difference is Belichick trumps Caldwell without question.

Colts with PM = 11-12 wins, without 3-4 wins (7-8 less)

Pats with TB = 13-14 wins, without 6-7 wins (7-8 less)

This is the outcome of our back-and-forth, with win totals kicked in by both of us. Didn't realize you couldn't follow along.

Are you retarded? The Pats are nothing like the Colts.

[Integrity28]

Are you retarded? The Pats are nothing like the Colts.

I disagree. No reason for the personal attack, I was trying to discuss the similarities.... Made points that would probably resonate with any non-Pats fan and you didn't like what you were reading so you resort to name calling like a child.

[Bergen Jet]

...and my point is that the Pats are built the same way as the Colts. To play bend but don't break defense with a lead. So any dumping you want to do on Polian is ironic, because the team you root for is in the same boat if they lose Brady. Only real difference is Belichick trumps Caldwell without question.

Colts with PM = 11-12 wins, without 3-4 wins (7-8 less)

Pats with TB = 13-14 wins, without 6-7 wins (7-8 less)

This is the outcome of our back-and-forth, with win totals kicked in by both of us. Didn't realize you couldn't follow along.

The big difference is that Polian has known about the potential for a Manning-less stretch for some time. At the very least he could have brought in a vet who is not a member of AARP or draft somebody who could be an eventual successor. If Brady goes down it's a fluke, there was time to do something about Manning that didn't involve hoping for the best. NE also has a potential future QB on their roster as well.

[CTM]

Really? I doubt that.

Your defense is terrible, your WR's are terrible, your running backs are terrible... The only position besides QB I would call a strength is TE... You succeed cause you have a top 5 QB of all time, so yeah.. Unless Hoyer is anohter elite qb, I don't see how you frighten anyone...

[CTM]

The big difference is that Polian has known about the potential for a Manning-less stretch for some time. At the very least he could have brought in a vet who is not a member of AARP or draft somebody who could be an eventual successor. If Brady goes down it's a fluke, there was time to do something about Manning that didn't involve hoping for the best. NE also has a potential future QB on their roster as well.

I don't think anyone's arguing that the colts screwed the pooch, what the ape is saying is that there isn't much of a team around Brady and I think most would concur

[Integrity28]

The big difference is that Polian has known about the potential for a Manning-less stretch for some time. At the very least he could have brought in a vet who is not a member of AARP or draft somebody who could be an eventual successor. If Brady goes down it's a fluke, there was time to do something about Manning that didn't involve hoping for the best. NE also has a potential future QB on their roster as well.

Pre-season reports had Manning playing in week 1, if you recall. I'm not so sure Polian "knew" this was coming. Hell, when he missed week 1 everyone was surprised - the fact that it suddenly went from missing week 1 to a number of weeks, and further medical procedures has to be a nightmare for him. The reality now is - its a no-win siutation.

If Polian brings in Collins, its a one-year fix that makes it clear they expect Manning back eventually.

If Polian brings in a starter-quality player, that has multiple years in front of him - they it sends the message that Manning is done.

In the former scenario, IF Manning IS done - at least the silver lining is being well-positioned for Andrew Luck.

All of this said, I really don't think Polian had as much time as you insinuate. Collins wasn't even on the roster before they realized Manning wouldn't be available. Making it that much more clear they were in a reactive position, rather than proactive.

I would bet that if the Pats lost Brady just before the first game, they would have brought in a stop-gap veteran too - because Hoyer isn't any better than Painter, tbh.

Anyway, long story shot - the Colts and Pats ARE built on both sides of the ball around the QB. As usual the Pats troll doesn't know what they are talking about.

[Integrity28]

I don't think anyone's arguing that the colts screwed the pooch, what the ape is saying is that there isn't much of a team around Brady and I think most would concur

This.

Gainzo started the thread to dog on Polian for building both sides of the ball around Manning. Well, the Pats are built the same way. Gainzo even suggested that the Pats would win 7 games less without Brady, which is exactly what I said about the Colts.

They are built the same way. I just found it ironic that the troll couldn't see it that way.

[Jet27]

I can't recall a team that has made the playoffs so many times in a row being completely unprepared when their all world QB gets injured.

Where do you place the blame? For me it has to be on Polian. He drafted Painter in 2009, cut Sorgi in 2010 (who he also drafted), then when Peyton can't play signs 83 year old Kerry Collins because Painter is a stiff.

Also doesn't help that the Colts built their D based on playing with a lead.

The Colts have the Steelers on Sunday, travel to Tampa after that, then face KC in what could be a match up of 0-4 teams.

It amazes me how someone as accomplished as Polian could drop the ball so badly.

100% right! and like I mentioned in another thread...this team is the poster child of a one dimensional team if there ever was!

[rick34125]

I can't recall a team that has made the playoffs so many times in a row being completely unprepared when their all world QB gets injured.

Where do you place the blame? For me it has to be on Polian. He drafted Painter in 2009, cut Sorgi in 2010 (who he also drafted), then when Peyton can't play signs 83 year old Kerry Collins because Painter is a stiff.

Also doesn't help that the Colts built their D based on playing with a lead.

The Colts have the Steelers on Sunday, travel to Tampa after that, then face KC in what could be a match up of 0-4 teams.

It amazes me how someone as accomplished as Polian could drop the ball so badly.

after polian drafts andrew luck nobody's going to be thinking about his backup qb plan.