How is Plaxico an upgrade ?

[#27TheDominator]

How is he an upgrade over what he had ? Please explain.

A WR is not supposed to have the best seats in the house on a INT return on a pass thrown to him. And it has happened many times.

Last season the JETS had 11 40+ yard completions. This season 10 games in we only have one!

Did you notice that the line is playing like sh*t? How many TDs does Burress have? He is an upgrade. That doesn't mean he isn't a lazy dog, but he's an upgrade. The problem is that Sanchez falls in love and throws to the same guy every ******* play, 30 times in a row. Of course Schotty is telling him to do so. I'm sure of it

[JetsFanInDenver]

He doesn't even deserve to be called that. I feel like him and sanchez should have new nicknames. How about Schitty and SUckassballschez?

Schittistein!

I am still not so sure about Mark. It seems to be a coaching blunder. The kid does not have any confidence on some throws. I am sure he is afraid of protection but at the time on some throws he seems to be extra cautionary, like he does not want to make a mistake. Andjust last season he was making those throws with confidence. There was one play to Keller where if had thrown early he would have had a huge play, he waited till Keeler was close to sidelines and then threw. It still resulted in a 5 yard gain but could have been much bigger play.

I wanna see how he is does for another season under a different OC. I did see him do a few things that were veteran. And seemed to be in good flow at the start of the second half. I am not totally going to write him off as yet!

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

Schittistein!

I am still not so sure about Mark. It seems to be a coaching blunder. The kid does not have any confidence on some throws. I am sure he is afraid of protection but at the time on some throws he seems to be extra cautionary, like he does not want to make a mistake. Andjust last season he was making those throws with confidence. There was one play to Keller where if had thrown early he would have had a huge play, he waited till Keeler was close to sidelines and then threw. It still resulted in a 5 yard gain but could have been much bigger play.

I wanna see how he is does for another season under a different OC. I did see him do a few things that were veteran. And seemed to be in good flow at the start of the second half. I am not totally going to write him off as yet!

The only play I saw by Sanchez I liked was the 4th and 19 or whatever it was.

How about the one on Holmes where he threw it a mile behind him and if he actually got close to hitting him he would have ran it in for a TD. That keller pass was horrid too, wtf was sanchez waiting for?

[#27TheDominator]

Schittistein!

I am still not so sure about Mark. It seems to be a coaching blunder. The kid does not have any confidence on some throws. I am sure he is afraid of protection but at the time on some throws he seems to be extra cautionary, like he does not want to make a mistake. Andjust last season he was making those throws with confidence. There was one play to Keller where if had thrown early he would have had a huge play, he waited till Keeler was close to sidelines and then threw. It still resulted in a 5 yard gain but could have been much bigger play.

I wanna see how he is does for another season under a different OC. I did see him do a few things that were veteran. And seemed to be in good flow at the start of the second half. I am not totally going to write him off as yet!

Yep. It's the OC's fault that he holds the ball too long and didn't let it go. It's the OC's fault that he can comprehend when to let the ball fly (when time is running out before the half, don't throw 2 yard passes in bounds) and when to eat it or throw it out of bounds (with a 7 point lead against a team that hadn't gained 20 yards in over a half). Red light, green light, 3 years and he still doesn't get it.

[#27TheDominator]

The only play I saw by Sanchez I liked was the 4th and 19 or whatever it was.

How about the one on Holmes where he threw it a mile behind him and if he actually got close to hitting him he would have ran it in for a TD. That keller pass was horrid too, wtf was sanchez waiting for?

Schottenheimer has to say "THROW IT!" into the headset before he can throw.

[jason423]

On an every play basis he is an upgrade. Hes a better route runner than Edwards. He has far better hands than Edwards. Hes a better red zone threat than Edwards. He uses his size better than Edwards. But he doesnt do the little things. Edwards broke up bad Sanchez passes. Burress usually watches them. Braylon filled a role allowing the Jets to throw deep. Burress doesnt do that.

[hoping4ASuperBowl]

Schottenheimer has to say "THROW IT!" into the headset before he can throw.

Ugh its just so pitiful. My head hurts and my heart sinks everytime I see them take the field. It was just last year where we saw the jets offense engineer a few drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead. There is no sign of that at all this year. It looks like the offense as a whole has taken a huge step backwards. We can only rely on the d to us a game anymore.

[SenorGato]

Schottenheimer has to say "THROW IT!" into the headset before he can throw.

Come on this is a digital age. He just hits O. The offense's problem is that much of the time he doesn't use the right touch and his avatar Sanchez throws the lollipops, mile highs, too shorts or something that Schottenheimer demands.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Did you notice that the line is playing like sh*t?

Not sure what you saw on TV but on some plays when the QB was in trouble the WRs just stood like zombies, made no effort to bail out the QB. Plax was looking like he was out of gas by the 4th quarter.

He is an upgrade. That doesn't mean he isn't a lazy dog, but he's an upgrade.

He is a lazy dog and yet he is an upgrade ? Wow. just wow!

The problem is that Sanchez falls in love and throws to the same guy every ******* play, 30 times in a row. Of course Schotty is telling him to do so. I'm sure of it

I have never seen him throw 30 times to the same guy in a row.

Schotty is horrible no doubt about that! But thats another conversation.

But last season we had him as an OC and we had 11 40+ yard plays. This season in 10 games, only one. Braylon alone had 5 40+ yard plays last season!

Our WRs were not even running 40+ yard routes. One play in the 2nd quarter (i think) Sanchez threw at him for somewhere about 25-30 yards but Plax is so slow the DB had the play well covered and it was Dawkins who came and balied us out by a late hit!

[JetsFanInDenver]

The only play I saw by Sanchez I liked was the 4th and 19 or whatever it was.

How about the one on Holmes where he threw it a mile behind him and if he actually got close to hitting him he would have ran it in for a TD. That keller pass was horrid too, wtf was sanchez waiting for?

The 4th and 19 was the best play. That play just got everyone around me back to their seats!

Was the Holmes play in the end zone. I thought that was deflected but i could be wrong.

The Keller pass was horrid. From my vantage point i first thought it was a TD. But then on the stadium replay it was clear he was out of bounds. That was one of those horrible throws.

[SenorGato]

Was the Holmes play in the end zone. I thought that was deflected but i could be wrong.

It wasn't, but that wasn't the point. He had to fake out a rookie and lead Holmes, and he did neither.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Yep. It's the OC's fault that he holds the ball too long and didn't let it go. It's the OC's fault that he can comprehend when to let the ball fly (when time is running out before the half, don't throw 2 yard passes in bounds) and when to eat it or throw it out of bounds (with a 7 point lead against a team that hadn't gained 20 yards in over a half). Red light, green light, 3 years and he still doesn't get it.

Thats another topic of conversation.

[JetsFanInDenver]

On an every play basis he is an upgrade. Hes a better route runner than Edwards. He has far better hands than Edwards. Hes a better red zone threat than Edwards. He uses his size better than Edwards. But he doesnt do the little things. Edwards broke up bad Sanchez passes. Burress usually watches them. Braylon filled a role allowing the Jets to throw deep. Burress doesnt do that.

You just gave 3 solid reasons why Burress signing was a disaster for the JETS. There in lies the main problem why this offense is struggling. The defense was only trying to defend 20-25 yards of pasture. The Broncos defense was not afraid of giving up the big play.

I am not sure how much of a better route runner he is. But he does not do anything to bail out the QB under pressure.

And most of all he does not have the stamina to carry it to the 4th quarter.He looked gassed today!

[villain_the_foe]

That interception he just stood there and watched. Best view in the house of a INT returned for TD. And we saw the same last week on one play where he just gave up and kept rolling out of bounds.

I know there there were a ton of supporters for Plax and Mason when they were signed. Now please explain ?

Plaxico is good, but I would have kept Edwards and signed Plax as a slot.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Plaxico is good, but I would have kept Edwards and signed Plax as a slot.

That would have made sense. But we signed Mason for the slot. Another dumb move!

[Irish Jet]

No he's not an upgrade, but he's actually been far better than I thought he would have been.

I've been incredibly disappointed in Holmes this season, expected far more, albeit the QB situation hurts him.

[#27TheDominator]

You just gave 3 solid reasons why Burress signing was a disaster for the JETS. There in lies the main problem why this offense is struggling. The defense was only trying to defend 20-25 yards of pasture. The Broncos defense was not afraid of giving up the big play.

I am not sure how much of a better route runner he is. But he does not do anything to bail out the QB under pressure.

And most of all he does not have the stamina to carry it to the 4th quarter.He looked gassed today!

If you think Burrress is the problem you're delusional. I feel like I'm reading the Pennington debate again. It's not Burress. It's the line. Hunter is being handled on a regular basis. Ferguson has been getting beaten repeatedly lately also. With pressure coming from both sides Sanchez seems to get flustered and make matters worse. Additionally, I think that after Greene went down they were afraid to let McKnight or Powell take too much responsibility in protection.

Teams seem to be beating the Jets tackles by spreading wide. Even though the both should have good feet, but they haven't been dealing with it well at all. The teams has taken to using Mulligan as a tackle which might not be bad if there wasn't an RB or the tackle to take over if Mulligan got beat. Now Mulligan is getting beaten too..

Not sure what you saw on TV but on some plays when the QB was in trouble the WRs just stood like zombies, made no effort to bail out the QB. Plax was looking like he was out of gas by the 4th quarter.

He is a lazy dog and yet he is an upgrade ? Wow. just wow!

I have never seen him throw 30 times to the same guy in a row.

Schotty is horrible no doubt about that! But thats another conversation.

But last season we had him as an OC and we had 11 40+ yard plays. This season in 10 games, only one. Braylon alone had 5 40+ yard plays last season!

Our WRs were not even running 40+ yard routes. One play in the 2nd quarter (i think) Sanchez threw at him for somewhere about 25-30 yards but Plax is so slow the DB had the play well covered and it was Dawkins who came and balied us out by a late hit!

40+ yard plays? That's the least of our problems. A bunch of those were short passes to Holmes that he took to the house. I'm sure that a few were runs. The team can't throw long because it can't protect, not because of Burress. Sure Edwards is faster than Burress, but that's not the problem. It starts with protection.

On an every play basis he is an upgrade. Hes a better route runner than Edwards. He has far better hands than Edwards. Hes a better red zone threat than Edwards. He uses his size better than Edwards. But he doesnt do the little things. Edwards broke up bad Sanchez passes. Burress usually watches them. Braylon filled a role allowing the Jets to throw deep. Burress doesnt do that.

Edwards really stepped up and played hard in 2010, but in 2009 there were dozens of plays that he quit on and numerous ones where he was blamed on this board for picks by Sanchez.

[villain_the_foe]

That would have made sense. But we signed Mason for the slot. Another dumb move!

True. The bottomline is that the NFL is based upon "youth". I said it at the beginning of the year. The Jets really flexed their ego this offseason. We dont bring Braylon back....the guy that had the best chemistry with our developing franchise QB (look how thats turning out) We get cute and almost lost Cro because we want to get fly and sign Nnamdi (who's getting exposed in Phila). Instead of restructuring we let Cotch walk (though I like Kerley). We obviously knew we had O-line issues. Ducasse has NEVER looked good so I would think that this is also evident in practice. Hunter is going to get our QB killed. And the only dude that we signed as a FA thats actually playing like he wants to back up Rex's words they dont even put on the field (Aaron Maybin).

I think what happened was Rex's "brash bravado" rubbed off on Tanny and Woody. I have to admit, its very infectious. I've been a Jet fan for 15 years and I have to admit I've NEVER rep'ed these guys this intensely until Rex got here. He does make you believe. At the end of the day you have to focus on reality and we're not doing that

Schotty should have been gone after last year, Instead of embarrassing Cro by making him wait while we flirt with Aso we should have been beefing up both sides of our Oline.

We should have been looking for LB's, Safety's and DT's instead of letting the eagles pick up many of them only to have them squander the talent by allowing an offensive coordinator handle to defensive duties. (thats almost as bad as schotty lol).

the Jets had an opportunity to really get better. We got cute, plain and simple, and we're getting punched in the mouth every week by better/tougher teams.

[JetsFanInDenver]

If you think Burrress is the problem you're delusional. I feel like I'm reading the Pennington debate again. It's not Burress. It's the line. Hunter is being handled on a regular basis. Ferguson has been getting beaten repeatedly lately also. With pressure coming from both sides Sanchez seems to get flustered and make matters worse.

Deflect much ?

40+ yard plays? That's the least of our problems. A bunch of those were short passes to Holmes that he took to the house. I'm sure that a few were runs. The team can't throw long because it can't protect, not because of Burress. Sure Edwards is faster than Burress, but that's not the problem. It starts with protection.

That is the biggest problem. We cannot stretch the field.

Edwards really stepped up and played hard in 2010, but in 2009 there were dozens of plays that he quit on and numerous ones where he was blamed on this board for picks by Sanchez.

Grasping for straws!

[JetsFanInDenver]

True. The bottomline is that the NFL is based upon "youth". I said it at the beginning of the year. The Jets really flexed their ego this offseason. We dont bring Braylon back....the guy that had the best chemistry with our developing franchise QB (look how thats turning out) We get cute and almost lost Cro because we want to get fly and sign Nnamdi (who's getting exposed in Phila). Instead of restructuring we let Cotch walk (though I like Kerley). We obviously knew we had O-line issues. Ducasse has NEVER looked good so I would think that this is also evident in practice. Hunter is going to get our QB killed. And the only dude that we signed as a FA thats actually playing like he wants to back up Rex's words they dont even put on the field (Aaron Maybin).

I think what happened was Rex's "brash bravado" rubbed off on Tanny and Woody. I have to admit, its very infectious. I've been a Jet fan for 15 years and I have to admit I've NEVER rep'ed these guys this intensely until Rex got here. He does make you believe. At the end of the day you have to focus on reality and we're not doing that

Schotty should have been gone after last year, Instead of embarrassing Cro by making him wait while we flirt with Aso we should have been beefing up both sides of our Oline.

We should have been looking for LB's, Safety's and DT's instead of letting the eagles pick up many of them only to have them squander the talent by allowing an offensive coordinator handle to defensive duties. (thats almost as bad as schotty lol).

the Jets had an opportunity to really get better. We got cute, plain and simple, and we're getting punched in the mouth every week by better/tougher teams.

Thats correct.

We got complacent! We started using draft picks on Nacho's friends. I know its a 7th round pick but it could have been used to add talent and not wasted. We were too focused on Aso and did not improve this team. Then we shot ourselves by signing not one but two 30+ WRs. One is gone. Other is giving us 3 quarters of average effort!

And we did not address our pass rush or offensive line depth. We got lucky with Maybin.

[villain_the_foe]

Thats correct.

We got complacent! We started using draft picks on Nacho's friends. I know its a 7th round pick but it could have been used to add talent and not wasted. We were too focused on Aso and did not improve this team. Then we shot ourselves by signing not one but two 30+ WRs. One is gone. Other is giving us 3 quarters of average effort!

And we did not address our pass rush or offensive line depth. We got lucky with Maybin.

Yeah we did. That was pure luck. Whats crazy is that I havent even seen him on the field since the buffalo game. I dont understand, everytime he's on the field he's part of the play...even better its like when he's part of the play a fumble occurs.

WTF is going on with the Jets I will never know. As I tell my friends who gives me with that "how and why are you a jet fan" look after games like last night and Sunday....."this is simply the life of a jet fan. Its equivalent to domestic abuse but for some reason I love them too much to leave".

[JetsFanInDenver]

Yeah we did. That was pure luck. Whats crazy is that I havent even seen him on the field since the buffalo game. I dont understand, everytime he's on the field he's part of the play...even better its like when he's part of the play a fumble occurs.

WTF is going on with the Jets I will never know. As I tell my friends who gives me with that "how and why are you a jet fan" look after games like last night and Sunday....."this is simply the life of a jet fan. Its equivalent to domestic abuse but for some reason I love them too much to leave".

I think McIntrye played a lot more in the game. I do not think Westerman even started the game. And thats because Ryan must have thought the big body would be better at defending the run/option game. So not surprised Maybin did not see the field last nite because he is really underweight. This is a very unique offense we faced last nite.

It is a torture as a JETS fan. And like you said, yet we all keep coming back. I still would support the Green and white rather that any other team in this league. And i know a whole lot of people feel that way.

[#27TheDominator]

Deflect much ?

That is the biggest problem. We cannot stretch the field.

Grasping for straws!

Let's make this simple. I don't like Burress. I think he is frustrating and a bit of a dog. He is in fact an upgrade simply because he is a better receiver than Braylon Edwards. The fact that Edwards has some dog in him too isn't grasping at straws. Burress has pulled down more than his fair share of TDs and that's why he was brought here. The team can't stretch the field because the line can't protect enough to let them do so. They specifically couldn't do it last night because they didn't trust the backs to pick up the blitz. It's true that in a strictly deep threat capacity Edwards is probably a little better than Burress, but that should be the job filled by Holmes. Inability to stretch the field is far from the biggest problem.

Burress is on a pace for 48 for 680 with 10 TDs while Edwards had 53 for 904 with 7 TDs last season. True Burress yardage would be considerably down, but the team is overall playing worse, he has been dinged (the likelihood of that was a valid knock on the move coming in) and he hasn't had the benefit of 4 games as the only target (Holmes 2010 suspension). He certainly hasn't been a major downgrade.

[Larz]

just on hands alone, he is an upgrade, but this was about money all along

[Larz]

denver, how do you stretch the field with no time to throw ?

they can't even buy him time with PA or roll outs !!!

it's that bad !!!

[neckdemon]

We wasted money on Santonio. He gets less balls his way than Jenna Jameson.

this doesn't make sense. since jenna jameson gets ALOT of balls. if you had said rosie o'donnel i was with you

[stoicsentry]

I does have something to do with play calling and predictability but this one was on Sanchez I dont want to try and stick up for him and make the haters cry all week. Once again we did a really poor job protecting him and he once again he got hammered tonight . Many drives were stopped that were no fault of his .

You can put it on the playcalling, but that throw was bad, too. He didn't lead the receiver. He does that a lot, throws behind instead of in front.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Let's make this simple. I don't like Burress. I think he is frustrating and a bit of a dog. He is in fact an upgrade simply because he is a better receiver than Braylon Edwards. The fact that Edwards has some dog in him too isn't grasping at straws. Burress has pulled down more than his fair share of TDs and that's why he was brought here. The team can't stretch the field because the line can't protect enough to let them do so. They specifically couldn't do it last night because they didn't trust the backs to pick up the blitz. It's true that in a strictly deep threat capacity Edwards is probably a little better than Burress, but that should be the job filled by Holmes. Inability to stretch the field is far from the biggest problem.

Burress is on a pace for 48 for 680 with 10 TDs while Edwards had 53 for 904 with 7 TDs last season. True Burress yardage would be considerably down, but the team is overall playing worse, he has been dinged (the likelihood of that was a valid knock on the move coming in) and he hasn't had the benefit of 4 games as the only target (Holmes 2010 suspension). He certainly hasn't been a major downgrade.

He has been a downgrade though. I cannot deny Burress is a bigger target in the end zone. But his speed or lack of it is hurting us now big time. We are not able to stretch the field and we are dead last in the NFL in 40+ yard plays. So it makes the defenses job easier. And the jury is out whether he can last the whole season and the playoffs. Heck now the JETS might not even make the playoffs.

Frankly based on one game i saw in person I cannot believe Santonio was the same guy who i saw play here last year.

Finally, tip of the hat for manning up and showing up in this thread.

There were a lot of people on the Plax and Mason bandwagon who somehow whimped out and decided not to man up!

[#27TheDominator]

He has been a downgrade though. I cannot deny Burress is a bigger target in the end zone. But his speed or lack of it is hurting us now big time. We are not able to stretch the field and we are dead last in the NFL in 40+ yard plays. So it makes the defenses job easier. And the jury is out whether he can last the whole season and the playoffs. Heck now the JETS might not even make the playoffs.

Frankly based on one game i saw in person I cannot believe Santonio was the same guy who i saw play here last year.

Finally, tip of the hat for manning up and showing up in this thread.

There were a lot of people on the Plax and Mason bandwagon who somehow whimped out and decided not to man up!

I completely disagree that he has been a downgrade at all, but the offense has been worse, so that is a matter of opinion. I was shocked that Mason was such a problem, but judging by how bad they are on O, I guess I shouldn't be. I disagree about the lack of 40 yard plays being the problem. I'd bet that even last year those were almost all catch and runs (or even just runs) and not many long throws. I think Holmes has been more of a downgrade this season and for that I blame Sanchez. My only other comment in this agree to disagree post is that while I agree that the jury is still out that Burress can last the whole season and playoffs, we all know that Edwards had knee surgery and hasn't been much help to the Niners who were rolling without him. Obviously, if we were betting at the time they were signed we'd have expected Edwards to be more durable.

[Smashmouth]

You can put it on the playcalling, but that throw was bad, too. He didn't lead the receiver. He does that a lot, throws behind instead of in front.

Thats a miscommunication and to be honest we dont have a play book so who screwed up ? Like I've said before The word is Sanchez spends alot of time studying do you think his WR's spend the same amount of time preparing ? Or better yet who would you bet your money on who read the play wrong ?

[Damaged89]

Thats a miscommunication and to be honest we dont have a play book so who screwed up ? Like I've said before The word is Sanchez spends alot of time studying do you think his WR's spend the same amount of time preparing ? Or better yet who would you bet your money on who read the play wrong ?

You are hopeless. Has Sanchez ever thrown a pick that you thought was his fault?

[Smashmouth]

You are hopeless. Has Sanchez ever thrown a pick that you thought was his fault?

yup plenty..... why did you ever read something I posted specifically saying that all his picks are other players fault ? Your Hopeless.

If you bothered to read the post it only brings up possibility. To many times this year we have seen miscommunication between WR and QB and with Sanchez being in this offense for 3 years I tend to think its possible the WR didnt make the right cut thats just common football sense could be wrong but its not a ridiculous idea like you make it out to be.

But hey you want to run a thrid year QB out of town who has had to deal with revolving Door WR's every year in the league and in the beginning of the season he got hammered relentlessly because his Idiot coaches and GM didnt think having a few Solid back up O-Lineman up would matter much. Guess thats why we had a rookie center (UDFA I think or was cut from another team) and a bust draft pick (Ducasse) backing up for what was supposed to be a SB caliber team. The Jets are the only team who draft a QB with a top pick and then throw a bunch of cast offs or old players that wont last but a year or two at him and expect him to produce. This is a great strategy to work in a young QB. Even the Bengals got it right with Daulton getting rid of the dead wood and bringing in a promising Rookie WR in AJ Green.

[#27TheDominator]

You can pretty well bet that the pick to Burress was on Sanchez. He was looking at Burress. It wasn't a spot throw, a look off or an option route. He was looking at the play and threw the ball too short and behind. Burress hadn't just cut when he let it go. This is particularly bad because when throwing to Burress you should always put it up HIGH.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I completely disagree that he has been a downgrade at all, but the offense has been worse, so that is a matter of opinion. I was shocked that Mason was such a problem, but judging by how bad they are on O, I guess I shouldn't be. I disagree about the lack of 40 yard plays being the problem. I'd bet that even last year those were almost all catch and runs (or even just runs) and not many long throws. I think Holmes has been more of a downgrade this season and for that I blame Sanchez. My only other comment in this agree to disagree post is that while I agree that the jury is still out that Burress can last the whole season and playoffs, we all know that Edwards had knee surgery and hasn't been much help to the Niners who were rolling without him. Obviously, if we were betting at the time they were signed we'd have expected Edwards to be more durable.

For this offense he is a downgrade. You admitted as much as well. He lacks speed to stretch the field. He might be a better red zone target but the JETS have to get to the red zone for that advantage to come into play.

Only talking about passing plays here. We have 1 just 1 play this year. We are dead last in the league. We had 11 last year. And we were Top 10 in the league. Not every play can be a catch and run play for 40 yards.

Injuries can happen to anyone. Nobody is safe in this game of attrition. One can only go with probabilities. And probability of an older player getting hurt is signifactly higher. I know Edwards got hurt in SF. But how can we say he would have got hurt and not be able to contribute if he was playing here ?

[JetsFanInDenver]

You can pretty well bet that the pick to Burress was on Sanchez. He was looking at Burress. It wasn't a spot throw, a look off or an option route. He was looking at the play and threw the ball too short and behind. Burress hadn't just cut when he let it go. This is particularly bad because when throwing to Burress you should always put it up HIGH.

That pick was on Sanchez. Awful decision. But Burress did nothing to prevent the INT from happening and bail his QB out. The DB made a unhindered catch and kept rolling to the endzone untouched. And Burress just stood there and became the guy with the best view of that interception return for TD.