How do you guys like this play call on 3rd down?

[CTM]

Chan its not so much overall performance as it is consistency. Its the lack of offensive consistency that kills this team.

so our output has matched our talent level, it's consistency that bothers you?

Our offensive variance is just about average, over last 6 years

2006 -24th

2007-4th

2008-6th

2009-10th

2010-27th

2011-29th (i could argue take out baltimore game here, but I won't )

=100/6=16.6

or almost exactly average consistency over past 6 years

[Smashmouth]

NYJ coles came back in a trade with the Redskins so what the Jets accomplished there was trade Coles away during his prime then trade Santana away in his prime for a broken down Coles who battled injuries for the rest of his career basicly a broken down WR at that point.

EY both Coles and Moss had very good numbers with Chad so Im not sure what your talking about saying they went on to pro bowl careers I think Cloes had 90 catches with Chad and 1100 yards and Santana had 7 TD s and 900 yards even though he missed games. Cant say I remember for sure on the numbers but Chad got them the football. Would have been nice to have both of them on the team and maybe a serviceable TE

[Smashmouth]

so our output has matched our talent level, it's consistency that bothers you?

Our offensive variance is just about average, over last 6 years

2006 -24th

2007-4th

2008-6th

2009-10th

2010-27th

2011-29th (i could argue take out baltimore game here, but I won't )

=100/6=16.6

or almost exactly average consistency over past 6 years

Im not sure exactly what you posted here are those our rankings ? I dont remember us being 4th and 6th on offense

[CTM]

Im not sure exactly what you posted here are those our rankings ? I dont remember us being 4th and 6th on offense

rankings for offensive variance

[Smashmouth]

rankings for offensive variance

what the hell is offensive variance ? Sorry but I dont need sites that post those crazy a$$ numbers to tell me we are inconsistent because its obvious we have been inconsistent for years. Im not sure what variance is supposed to be telling me since i dont follow those stats

[Smashmouth]

You're only off by 3 years.

http://www.nfl.com/p...2503902/profile

Funny EY that link you provided show Cloes as having better stats with penny than he did in Washington so how exactly did you make the previous point of him becoming a pro bowler after leaving penny ?

[Bleedin Green]

he's never been a proven failure, he's always had a bad situation at qb...

sheesh.. you are really over the top for a smart guy

My mistake, he's a coach who has had absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support him being any good at his job, aside from a constant list of excuse for his failures. Feel better now?

[dbatesman]

what the hell is offensive variance ? Sorry but I dont need sites that post those crazy a$$ numbers to tell me we are inconsistent because its obvious we have been inconsistent for years. Im not sure what variance is supposed to be telling me since i dont follow those stats

You're terrific.

[CTM]

My mistake, he's a coach who has had absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support him being any good at his job, aside from a constant list of excuse for his failures. Feel better now?

he has pretty good qualitative evidence of being average at his job, imo

[Smashmouth]

You're terrific.

And your an idiot

[CTM]

what the hell is offensive variance ? Sorry but I dont need sites that post those crazy a$$ numbers to tell me we are inconsistent because its obvious we have been inconsistent for years. Im not sure what variance is supposed to be telling me since i dont follow those stats

does this help?

VARIANCE measures the statistical variance of the team's weekly DVOA performance. Teams are ranked from most consistent (#1, lowest variance) to least consistent (#32, highest variance).

[Smashmouth]

does this help?

VARIANCE measures the statistical variance of the team's weekly DVOA performance. Teams are ranked from most consistent (#1, lowest variance) to least consistent (#32, highest variance).

Ok so our numbers are pretty bad other than 2 years ....if you put our teams ranking next to those numbers it might tell another story. You could be consistently bad correct ?

[CTM]

Ok so our numbers are pretty bad other than 2 years ....if you put our teams ranking next to those numbers it might tell another story. You could be consistently bad correct ?

correct, but you said we weren't consistent lol

[Smashmouth]

correct, but you said we weren't consistent lol

HAHAHAHA ok now that was good stuff

[ZachEY]

Funny EY that link you provided show Cloes as having better stats with penny than he did in Washington so how exactly did you make the previous point of him becoming a pro bowler after leaving penny ?

Well, mostly because I said Santana Moss.

[CTM]

HAHAHAHA ok now that was good stuff

smash, whether you like it or not there hasn't been a season where our offensive production has greatly lagged behind the talent.. i think some of you don't watch enough other teams play, or personalize jets struggles too much.. plenty of "good" teams have up and down games, and all average teams do

[ZachEY]

what the hell is offensive variance ? Sorry but I dont need sites that post those crazy a$$ numbers to tell me we are inconsistent because its obvious we have been inconsistent for years. Im not sure what variance is supposed to be telling me since i dont follow those stats

We're not inconsistent. We're just not that good.

That word is thrown around like "unprepared". We weren't "unprepared" to play New England. We just weren't as good as them.

Both terms are means of avoiding reality.

[Bleedin Green]

In this particular thread, it's that a play was designed with a wide open option for an almost sure 1st down, and Sanchez didn't go to him.

In general, that people blame every loss on Schotty and the failures of this season on Schotty, and that's simply not the case. We are not an offensive coordinator away from the Super Bowl. That's a stupid argument.

Then it's a good thing I'm not stupid enough to make that argument.

The fact that there was one possible outcome that might have succeeded doesn't change it from being a crappy call. A throw into triple coverage that results in a TD doesn't suddenly becoming an amazingly brilliant read, and one option that might have worked doesn't make a play any good. As crazy as it sounds, there's actually this way for more than one person to do something wrong at the same time, so admitting a playcall sucked won't suddenly amount to someone conceding defeat in the great Mark Sanchez debate.

There's a whole list of reasons for the Jets failures, and both Schotty and Sanchez have done a whole lot to earn their way high up onto that list. Where things stand now, there seems to be a few different absurd stances regarding these two:

1. Those who believe, based on 6 year of evidence, that Schotty is a horrible OC and is to blame for Sanchez's failures, and he will immediately improve with a new OC.

2. Those who believe, based on 3 years of evidence, Sanchez is a horrible QB and now feel the need to regularly make excuses for Schotty, an OC they claim to dislike, as they cannot accept any of the blame being shared by anyone

3. Pizza boy

The truth is they both suck at their jobs, and I have no idea why that's such a difficult thing for so many people to admit. While Group 1 may have their head in the clouds, at least they believe in their argument, and truly think Schotty is a bad OC and Sanchez a good QB, as misguided as that may be. Meanwhile Group 2 has become so obsessed with their stance, that many of them are actually starting to contradict their own prior arguments as they're actually making an effort to defend someone they previously disliked just to justify further hatred of the one person who they dislike even more. And who the hell knows what group 3 is thinking, since it seems the stance there is that they're both good and both suck and it's each other's fault but neither of their faults.

[CTM]

haha.. bleedin is cracking me up.. i'm skimming these novels but def sense potential meltdown.. i like him too much to continue pushing his buttons though..

[Smashmouth]

smash, whether you like it or not there hasn't been a season where our offensive production has greatly lagged behind the talent.. i think some of you don't watch enough other teams play, or personalize jets struggles too much.. plenty of "good" teams have up and down games, and all average teams do

Im still not understanding your point, our offense stinks, our OC stinks, and I think we lack talent in a lot of areas

1. We cant stretch the field

2. We do not have RB's who can catch the football and we never (in Shotys offense) run any designed plays for them out of the backfield..... not every throw to a RB needs to be a check down.

3. Our O line has played bad in both phases and is any part of this team has been inconsistent its this unit.

Chan I watch a lot of football and the biggest thing that I see with other teams that I never see with us is creating mismatches.

[ZachEY]

Then it's a good thing I'm not stupid enough to make that argument.

The fact that there was one possible outcome that might have succeeded doesn't change it from being a crappy call. A throw into triple coverage that results in a TD doesn't suddenly becoming an amazingly brilliant read, and one option that might have worked doesn't make a play any good. As crazy as it sounds, there's actually this way for more than one person to do something wrong at the same time, so admitting a playcall sucked won't suddenly amount to someone conceding defeat in the great Mark Sanchez debate.

There's a whole list of reasons for the Jets failures, and both Schotty and Sanchez have done a whole lot to earn their way high up onto that list. Where things stand now, there seems to be a few different absurd stances regarding these two:

1. Those who believe, based on 6 year of evidence, that Schotty is a horrible OC and is to blame for Sanchez's failures, and he will immediately improve with a new OC.

2. Those who believe, based on 3 years of evidence, Sanchez is a horrible QB and now feel the need to regularly make excuses for Schotty, an OC they claim to dislike, as they cannot accept any of the blame being shared by anyone

3. Pizza boy

The truth is they both suck at their jobs, and I have no idea why that's such a difficult thing for so many people to admit. While Group 1 may have their head in the clouds, at least they believe in their argument, and truly think Schotty is a bad OC and Sanchez a good QB, as misguided as that may be. Meanwhile Group 2 has become so obsessed with their stance, that many of them are actually starting to contradict their own prior arguments as they're actually making an effort to defend someone they previously disliked just to justify further hatred of the one person who they dislike even more. And who the hell knows what group 3 is thinking, since it seems the stance there is that they're both good and both suck and it's each other's fault but neither of their faults.

As for the play, how many players do you expect to be viable options on each play. This is the NFL, and the other teams get paid too. The coaches job is to put the players in position to succeed. The other team's job is to stop that. If you, as the coach, devise a play that gives your team a chance, that's a good job, I think. To me, that's where coaching stops. People put way to much emphasis on the OC. This play got a player open who would have made the 1st down. This play was just fine.

As for excuses, where are they? Who's making an excuse for Schotty? You're in group 4 (Schotty is teh devil) at this point that anyone who dares say, "x isn't schotty's fault" is being labeled as 'making excuses for a failure of a coach' regardless of Sanchez. It is possible to say that Schotty isn't a good offensive coordinator, yet he is not always the culprit, and isn't the primary problem of this team. Maybe that can be group 5, the group that believes that both are no good but that the 2009, 2010, and 2011 Jets would have been/would be closer to a Super Bowl with a better QB and Schotty then a better OC and Sanchez.

[Bleedin Green]

haha.. bleedin is cracking me up.. i'm skimming these novels but def sense potential meltdown.. i like him too much to continue pushing his buttons though..

What can I say, there's no meltdown coming, but considering I've hated Schotty since before I even knew who the hell Mark Sanchez was, trying to use Sanchez as an excuse for his sucktitude is beyond annoying. That doesn't mean Sanchez doesn't suck, I'm just not sure why so many people think it's an impossibility that they both suck, and that one sucking doesn't make the other any better.

Can we at least all agree Eric Smith sucks donkey balls?

[Smashmouth]

We're not inconsistent. We're just not that good.

That word is thrown around like "unprepared". We weren't "unprepared" to play New England. We just weren't as good as them.

Both terms are means of avoiding reality.

We're not inconsistent. We're just not that good.

That word is thrown around like "unprepared". We weren't "unprepared" to play New England. We just weren't as good as them.

Both terms are means of avoiding reality.

EY I agree we are bad, no doubt, but we are also unprepared as well, which means poorly coached IMO . When you see constant 12 man penalties and the lack of adjustments to whats going on what else can we take from that. We are looking from the outside in we dont know alot of information that would help us point the finger in one direction or the other, but the team does, the question is why cant they get it fixed and why does the same crap continue to happen ?

[Smashmouth]

What can I say, there's no meltdown coming, but considering I've hated Schotty since before I even knew who the hell Mark Sanchez was, trying to use Sanchez as an excuse for his sucktitude is beyond annoying. That doesn't mean Sanchez doesn't suck, I'm just not sure why so many people think it's an impossibility that they both suck, and that one sucking doesn't make the other any better.

Can we at least all agree Eric Smith sucks donkey balls? YES

Yes

[dbatesman]

I'm just not sure why so many people think it's an impossibility that they both suck, and that one sucking doesn't make the other any better.

Who are these people, exactly?

[ZachEY]

EY I agree we are bad, no doubt, but we are also unprepared as well, which means poorly coached IMO . When you see constant 12 man penalties and the lack of adjustments to whats going on what else can we take from that. We are looking from the outside in we dont know alot of information that would help us point the finger in one direction or the other, but the team does, the question is why cant they get it fixed and why does the same crap continue to happen ?

How can you, from your television set at home, say the team is unprepared? Where is the line exactly between talent and preparedness? How do I spot the difference?

I think, as CTM kind of points out, that Jets fans expect the Jets should win every game, and the other team is just about completely ignored. So, we say the team was "unprepared" instead of "not as good". Because, and you don't need a doctorate of psychology to figure this out, we can easily better about the our ability to "be prepared" next week, while "being better" is not likely to happen, and that's a truth none of us really want to acknowledge. Aten used the term "cognitive dissonance" before, this is that term explained.

[Bleedin Green]

As for the play, how many players do you expect to be viable options on each play. This is the NFL, and the other teams get paid too. The coaches job is to put the players in position to succeed. The other team's job is to stop that. If you, as the coach, devise a play that gives your team a chance, that's a good job, I think. To me, that's where coaching stops. People put way to much emphasis on the OC. This play got a player open who would have made the 1st down. This play was just fine.

As for excuses, where are they? Who's making an excuse for Schotty? You're in group 4 (Schotty is teh devil) at this point that anyone who dares say, "x isn't schotty's fault" is being labeled as 'making excuses for a failure of a coach' regardless of Sanchez. It is possible to say that Schotty isn't a good offensive coordinator, yet he is not always the culprit, and isn't the primary problem of this team. Maybe that can be group 5, the group that believes that both are no good but that the 2009, 2010, and 2011 Jets would have been/would be closer to a Super Bowl with a better QB and Schotty then a better OC and Sanchez.

I've actually made it abundantly clear I don't think everything is Schotty's fault. After all, if I did then wouldn't I be under the impression that Sanchez is great, and not repeating regularly throughout this thread that he sucks? It's very possibly for me to think it's not all his fault, and still think he sucks. I know it's easier to argue an extremist stance, but my entire point is how ridiculous those stances are, and how that's pretty much all we're looking at right now, either those who think every problem with this team is Schotty's fault and those who think every problem with this team is Sanchez's fault, and it's absurd because it's become blatantly clear at this point, that both men quite clearly suck at their jobs, as do plenty of other people on this team, from the practice squad to front office.

I completely agree with you that a coaches job is to put his players in a position to succeed, and it's my main issue with Schotty, because I think he's just awful at that. Call me crazy, but I don't consider it putting your players in a position to succeed when your play's success is contingent on, even if your offense executes it perfectly, needing to hope and pray somebody on defense ****s up royally for it to have a shot in hell. Just because it looks like that opportunity may have presented itself doesn't mean it's not still a stupid concept.

As far as your last point, unless the Packers decide they're trading Rodgers to the Jets, they're nowhere close to a single person, be it player or coach, away from the Super Bowl. Just because the QB is the most important person in football, doesn't magically make other people suck less at their jobs.

[Bleedin Green]

Who are these people, exactly?

It would seem the vast majority of the "hater" groups, be it of Schotty or Sanchez, feels as though admitting the other sucks somehow invalidates their argument, so refuse to do so. I just want us to all join together in peace and harmony and loudly proclaim "THEY BOTH SUCK!" Trust me, we'll all feel much better afterwards.

[Smashmouth]

How can you, from your television set at home, say the team is unprepared? Where is the line exactly between talent and preparedness? How do I spot the difference?

I think, as CTM kind of points out, that Jets fans expect the Jets should win every game, and the other team is just about completely ignored. So, we say the team was "unprepared" instead of "not as good". Because, and you don't need a doctorate of psychology to figure this out, we can easily better about the our ability to "be prepared" next week, while "being better" is not likely to happen, and that's a truth none of us really want to acknowledge. Aten used the term "cognitive dissonance" before, this is that term explained.

From the confusion I see every week. You have to admit we see 2-3 12 men on the field penalties every week thats one sign. The poor use of time outs is another sign and thats on both the coaches and players from what we've seen. WR's running an out and the QB throwing an in. Missed assignments on Defense like we saw on more than one occasion vs the Pats. I see your point as to Who do we blame from the couch but no matter who we blame its happening and thats the biggest issue of all it does not seem to get fixed. Player Substitution is the simplest form of coaching and when your still seeing issues past mid season and multiple times per game you just have to shake your head.

[Smashmouth]

It would seem the vast majority of the "hater" groups, be it of Schotty or Sanchez, feels as though admitting the other sucks somehow invalidates their argument, so refuse to do so. I just want us to all join together in peace and harmony and loudly proclaim "THEY BOTH SUCK!" Trust me, we'll all feel much better afterwards.

The hardest part about blaming Sanchez is because hes young and things have happened this year that are pretty much out of his control or Shottys control for that matter as well. Problem is Shotty has not done well here and there is no reason to believe hes doing a good job coaching up our young QB. He almost makes so you have to ask the question.... Would Sanchez be doing better with different coaching ? I know eveyone here understands the QB/WR relationship and that being together for years plays a huge factor but we keep changing WR's and with a CBA shortened offseason how could we expect this not effect our QB ? he had very little time to work with the new guys and Sanchez haters really just dismiss this or choose to not even respond to it. Add that in with the O-Line woes and you compound the problem.

[JustInFudge]

poop QB

[JustInFudge]

poop offense

[JustInFudge]

ooops...wrong thread lmfao.

[bLguerriero1]

mm just wanted to put my two cents in, but this is a pretty good call thats pretty poorly executed... this is a stick route or y-sideline, outside receivers run the 5 yard stick, inside receivers run a two step roll over, keller is just a check down... cant tell from the angle but seems liek the patriots are in a two shell, which means they are in a cover two look, which in a stick route means, ur gettin the same thing to either side, so pick a side presnap, which is what i think sanchez does... if they are showing 1 high, he should be going to the side with the safety rotating deep, which is the top... corner is bail third so it should go to the top reciever, looks like plax, right away

regardless he threw it to the worst possible reciever... if he did pick the bottom side, he has to go to mcknight but looks like mcknight also got happy feet because he gets no where close to 5, prolly cut his route a stride short, unlike the top receiver..

so, very easily could have been a first down but just poor reading/decision making by the qb... not sure if that makes any of us feel better, but just thought i could shed some light on all the arguing

[ZachEY]

I've actually made it abundantly clear I don't think everything is Schotty's fault. After all, if I did then wouldn't I be under the impression that Sanchez is great, and not repeating regularly throughout this thread that he sucks? It's very possibly for me to think it's not all his fault, and still think he sucks. I know it's easier to argue an extremist stance, but my entire point is how ridiculous those stances are, and how that's pretty much all we're looking at right now, either those who think every problem with this team is Schotty's fault and those who think every problem with this team is Sanchez's fault, and it's absurd because it's become blatantly clear at this point, that both men quite clearly suck at their jobs, as do plenty of other people on this team, from the practice squad to front office.

I completely agree with you that a coaches job is to put his players in a position to succeed, and it's my main issue with Schotty, because I think he's just awful at that. Call me crazy, but I don't consider it putting your players in a position to succeed when your play's success is contingent on, even if your offense executes it perfectly, needing to hope and pray somebody on defense ****s up royally for it to have a shot in hell. Just because it looks like that opportunity may have presented itself doesn't mean it's not still a stupid concept.

As far as your last point, unless the Packers decide they're trading Rodgers to the Jets, they're nowhere close to a single person, be it player or coach, away from the Super Bowl. Just because the QB is the most important person in football, doesn't magically make other people suck less at their jobs.

So, outside of Gato, who's basically making jokes, one person who fits the mold of the categories you've created?