How do you guys like this play call on 3rd down?

[ZachEY]

After all of this time are there really people that are so obsessed with their hatred for Sanchez that they can't admit this is one of the dumbest ******* play designs imaginable? I mean, that's really not a point of debate. It just is. I really don't give a crap who rambles on with their over-inflated sense of self worth to tell us how much smarter they are and why it's not, that just makes them even more wrong. This is not even a point of opinion when it gets to this point, there's absolutely zero evidence that suggests anything other than the fact that it's completely ******* stupid.

Does that make it so that Sanchez doesn't suck? No, so get over it already. Schotty can be a ******* moron and Sanchez still suck. It will all be ok, I promise.

Based on Smash agreeing with you, and repping you, you've got to know you're wrong now.

[CTM]

While you may not fall into this group, there has been a recent onslaught of Schotty defenders amongst those so desperate to blame Sanchez for all of the Jets woes. While I think there's been a number of times where the playcall was just fine and Sanchez completely blew it throughout the season, trying to classify this as one of those instances is a tad excessive.

I'd be willing to bet most of the people you think of as schotty defenders are just tired of reading the inane rantings of the Anti-Schotty Militia

[ZachEY]

Winner winner chicken dinner.

I was one of the biggest Chad haters in the world but I was never stupid enough to think that somehow made Herm, Hackett, Mangini or Schotty good coaches. It's really rather sad. I guess some fans are so desperate to see the success of this team, they want to convince themselves only one person involved with the entire team is a problem so that it can all be magically fixed with one move. Granted they are completely wrong, but I guess it makes them feel better.

The difference of course being that no one who thinks Sanchez sucks is making the case for Schotty as a good OC, but plenty who think Schotty suck are making the case for Sanchez being a good QB.

[SenorGato]

First of all when Sanchez turned to the right side of the field The RT and LE were right in his throwing lane with McKnight so Im not sure WTF your talking about...... as he was making the throw (to Kerley) they were out of his field of view, yes, but it was too late at that point. My point on the play failing was not how you make it look and you know it JIF so stop with the crap already..... to even mention that I think Shotty designes plays to fail on purpose is almost as ridiculous of accusing him of that.

You just said that the play did what it was designed to do and that was fail...

[Larz]

The difference of course being that no one who thinks Sanchez sucks is making the case for Schotty as a good OC, but plenty who think Schotty suck are making the case for Sanchez being a good QB.

I haven't see anyone try to make the case sanchez is playing well, just that is is silly to lay all the blame at his feet. yor blind hate is just as silly as blind admiration, and the truth is somewhere in the middle

[ZachEY]

I haven't see anyone try to make the case sanchez is playing well, just that is is silly to lay all the blame at his feet. yor blind hate is just as silly as blind admiration, and the truth is somewhere in the middle

And, if "playing well" was what I said, you'd be on your way to making a point.

Good QB is what I said, which is what plenty are arguing, as they make dozens of excuses why he's not playing at his potential.

I think we're seeing Sanchez playing right at what he's capable of. For my hate to be blind, it would have to be based on something that isn't exactly his play on the field.

[rillo]

Bad play design and Sanchez already knew where he was throwing. Just bad all around.

[Smashmouth]

Based on Smash agreeing with you, and repping you, you've got to know you're wrong now.

Of course, because your right about everything, and your knowledge of football surpasses all. Making simple sense like expecting WR's to run routes that at least reach the markers is way to much to ask . Oh wait I forgot it was the defense that dictated to the offense thats why all 5 receivers on that play would have probably been short of the first down on a completed pass. Sanchez did complete the pass right ? So he did execute the play.

[Bleedin Green]

I'd be willing to bet most of the people you think of as schotty defenders are just tired of reading the inane rantings of the Anti-Schotty Militia

No, it's really a simple matter of those who have become incapable of conceding the absolute incompetence of the Jets OC because it would actually mean admitting Sanchez isn't the only problem with this team. Like I said earlier, as much as I may have hated Chad, I was never stupid enough to excuse away the sucktitude of any of his sh*t-a$$ coaches because of it. The fact that some people have become so obsessed with needing to blame all of the Jets woes on one player, as much as he may suck, is really sad. It's no coincidence that outside of the pizza boy, everyone who's spent so much effort trying to excuse the horrible job Schotty's done is those most adamant of Sanchez haters. The fact that some of these people are making constant excuses for Schotty despite not even liking him really speaks volumes.

I never needed to try to excuse the performances of all other players and coaches involved with the Jets in order to make it clear why Penny-boy sucked a$$, and it doesn't say a lot about those who feel the need to do so to trash Sanchez. If you're that incapable of being together a coherent argument against a pretty awful QB without making excuses for everyone else, then perhaps it's time to just throw in the towel. Trying to blame the Sanchez-lovers for the recent influx of Schotty excuses is just pathetic. If that was a legitimate reason for that kind of reaction, we would have been pushing for the hall of fame inductions of the likes of Doug Brien and Paul Hackett back in the day.

[ZachEY]

Of course, because your right about everything, and your knowledge of football surpasses all. Making simple sense like expecting WR's to run routes that at least reach the markers is way to much to ask . Oh wait I forgot it was the defense that dictated to the offense thats why all 5 receivers on that play would have probably been short of the first down on a completed pass. Sanchez did complete the pass right ? So he did execute the play.

Not everything, no. But, it's usually a safe position to oppose the guy that's breastfed Jets QBs for the last decade.

[ZachEY]

The fact that some of these people are making constant excuses for Schotty despite not even liking him really speaks volumes.

There's a difference between making excuses and saying, "not every play Schotty calls is the wrong one".

[JustInFudge]

No, it's really a simple matter of those who have become incapable of conceding the absolute incompetence of the Jets OC because it would actually mean admitting Sanchez isn't the only problem with this team. Like I said earlier, as much as I may have hated Chad, I was never stupid enough to excuse away the sucktitude of any of his sh*t-a$$ coaches because of it. The fact that some people have become so obsessed with needing to blame all of the Jets woes on one player, as much as he may suck, is really sad. It's no coincidence that outside of the pizza boy, everyone who's spent so much effort trying to excuse the horrible job Schotty's done is those most adamant of Sanchez haters. The fact that some of these people are making constant excuses for Schotty despite not even liking him really speaks volumes.

I never needed to try to excuse the performances of all other players and coaches involved with the Jets in order to make it clear why Penny-boy sucked a$$, and it doesn't say a lot about those who feel the need to do so to trash Sanchez. If you're that incapable of being together a coherent argument against a pretty awful QB without making excuses for everyone else, then perhaps it's time to just throw in the towel. Trying to blame the Sanchez-lovers for the recent influx of Schotty excuses is just pathetic. If that was a legitimate reason for that kind of reaction, we would have been pushing for the hall of fame inductions of the likes of Doug Brien and Paul Hackett back in the day.

Does having a limited QB, limit your ability to call/design plays?

[Bleedin Green]

The difference of course being that no one who thinks Sanchez sucks is making the case for Schotty as a good OC, but plenty who think Schotty suck are making the case for Sanchez being a good QB.

So now since one group is wrong it justifies the other intentionally doing the same? I can at least respect the fact that those defending Sanchez actually believe in their stance. It doesn't matter whether or not the argument is if Schotty's a good OC, the point is people are making a distinct effort to excuse his horrid performance of his job in fear that it might put even an ounce of blame for the Jets failures on anyone but Sanchez.

[ZachEY]

So now since one group is wrong it justifies the other intentionally doing the same? I can at least respect the fact that those defending Sanchez actually believe in their stance. It doesn't matter whether or not the argument is if Schotty's a good OC, the point is people are making a distinct effort to excuse his horrid performance of his job in fear that it might put even an ounce of blame for the Jets failures on anyone but Sanchez.

I mean, that sounds really bad. Fortunately, that's quite clearly not what's happening. As I said above, saying, "not every play is bad" is a far cry from making excuses for him.

[CTM]

BG

[Smashmouth]

Not everything, no. But, it's usually a safe position to oppose the guy that's breastfed Jets QBs for the last decade.

For a rookie Qb to take a team to the AFCCG his first year then do the same his second year I think hes done pretty well. He brought us to a 17-6 lead in the first year vs the Colts that the defense could not hold. He did his part

In year 2 he almost brought us back vs the Steelers despite some really stupid play calling and lack of urgency by his OC and HC. Once again the defense could not get him the ball back for that last drive.

Now this year he has been taking a beating because his O-Line can no longer protect him and yes its causing issues. That, and the absence of a running game, and getting used to 2 new starting WRs but its all his fault and he sucks is the message some of you are pushing and its not fair to the kid at all. This is the same crap we have seen for years here weather or not Chad was good or crap we certainly did not do much to help his career along when in his second year starting we let his main WR (Coles) go to the Redskins. Thats like telling QB's like Stafford Sorry but next year we're going to let Calvin Johnson go via free agency not to compare the receivers just making a point. Sorry Matt Ryan but Roddy White wont be here next year. Gotta love it when Jets fans compare our offensive talent with some of the elite offenses in the league and blame the QB for the ineptitude.

[Bleedin Green]

Does having a limited QB, limit your ability to call/design plays?

That might carry some weight if Schotty wasn't a proven failure before Sanchez had ever taken an NFL snap or the horrid play calls and designs didn't extend into the running game.

[Bleedin Green]

I mean, that sounds really bad. Fortunately, that's quite clearly not what's happening. As I said above, saying, "not every play is bad" is a far cry from making excuses for him.

Of course not every play is bad. Neither are Sanchez's and neither were Chad's. What's your point?

[Bleedin Green]

BG

I'm not that much of a bleeder.

[CTM]

well, you're nothing if not consistent smash...

my position is simple really.. the offensive output has just about matched the output you'd expect given the talent for schotty's entire stay here.. to me that's a qualitative way of saying, hey, schotty's probably an average OC

the fact that you point out the OL issues, the revolving door at WR, the inexperienced QB, the lack of running game, and all the other talent issues on offense + think the OC is terrible, really should mean you expect us to be last in the league . Not sure how in your head we have terrible talent + a terrible coach, but are still roughly average..

[CTM]

That might carry some weight if Schotty wasn't a proven failure before Sanchez had ever taken an NFL snap or the horrid play calls and designs didn't extend into the running game.

he's never been a proven failure, he's always had a bad situation at qb...

sheesh.. you are really over the top for a smart guy

[Smashmouth]

I'm not that much of a bleeder.

And its not green

[CTM]

smash.. what season did offensive performance (comparative to the rest of the league) not match the talent level you perceived we had, and provide an explanation.. When did we have top 5 (or 10) talent assembled, that Schotty mismanaged to middling output

[Smashmouth]

well, you're nothing if not consistent smash...

my position is simple really.. the offensive output has just about matched the output you'd expect given the talent for schotty's entire stay here.. to me that's a qualitative way of saying, hey, schotty's probably an average OC

the fact that you point out the OL issues, the revolving door at WR, the inexperienced QB, the lack of running game, and all the other talent issues on offense + think the OC is terrible, really should mean you expect us to be last in the league . Not sure how in your head we have terrible talent + a terrible coach, but are still roughly average..

Chan our offense is terrible and while we have had some decent games I cant say I have seen a complete offensive game this year. We have alot of issues but the Shotty thing goes back a ways. When you see plays where WR's are not getting to the chains (like we have complained about for years here) you would think something would get done yet we continue to see it. I was a Shotty hater long before Sanchez got here and i do think we need a chancge to see if Sanchez is going to be the guy or not. Most of us called for Shottys head and didnt want him near our franchise QB yet hes still here. Sanchez has ability, a lot of QB's (simms jaws ...... ) have seen his ability as well and I wont throw in the towel on the kid until he gets a chance to work under someone who has a clue.

[ZachEY]

For a rookie Qb to take a team to the AFCCG his first year then do the same his second year I think hes done pretty well. He brought us to a 17-6 lead in the first year vs the Colts that the defense could not hold. He did his part

In year 2 he almost brought us back vs the Steelers despite some really stupid play calling and lack of urgency by his OC and HC. Once again the defense could not get him the ball back for that last drive.

Now this year he has been taking a beating because his O-Line can no longer protect him and yes its causing issues. That, and the absence of a running game, and getting used to 2 new starting WRs but its all his fault and he sucks is the message some of you are pushing and its not fair to the kid at all. This is the same crap we have seen for years here weather or not Chad was good or crap we certainly did not do much to help his career along when in his second year starting we let his main WR (Coles) go to the Redskins. Thats like telling QB's like Stafford Sorry but next year we're going to let Calvin Johnson go via free agency not to compare the receivers just making a point. Sorry Matt Ryan but Roddy White wont be here next year. Gotta love it when Jets fans compare our offensive talent with some of the elite offenses in the league and blame the QB for the ineptitude.

Sanchez has been a part of some successful Jets teams. That doesn't mean it's because of him. You do realize, that Brian Schottenheimer and Eric Smith also were involved in back to back AFCCGs, right? That doesn't mean we were there because of them, or that they weren't holding us back from going further. It's simply remarkable that Jets fans such as yourself are so enamored with mediocrity that they will hold losing in the playoffs in back to back year as an unquestionable measure of success. It's such a losers attitude. Were bears fans destroyed when they let Rex Grossman go? He did after all, take them to their first Super Bowl appearance since 1986. Why do you think that is?

As for the Chad argument you bring back, why is it you have all the answers with him, but refuse to acknowledge that Santana Moss went on to be a pro bowl player once he left Chad? Chad never had any receivers, but the following year, Mark Brunell had a pro bowler. I simply don't get it. As for Coles, we got him back, and you know what, Chad still didn't perform. As for Sanchez, he started his career with nobody, and we went out and got him two former Super Bowl MVPs at WR. But, the fact that they're not performing to the standards you like is simply the WRs fault, and has nothing to do with who's getting them the ball.

Every single one of your arguments is based on what could have been if there were super stars at every position. Meanwhile, what is, is that Sanchez is inaccurate and a terrible decision maker.

[JustInFudge]

That might carry some weight if Schotty wasn't a proven failure before Sanchez had ever taken an NFL snap or the horrid play calls and designs didn't extend into the running game.

Where the Jets not one of the best running teams in the league for the first 2 years of Snchz's career?

[ZachEY]

Of course not every play is bad. Neither are Sanchez's and neither were Chad's. What's your point?

In this particular thread, it's that a play was designed with a wide open option for an almost sure 1st down, and Sanchez didn't go to him.

In general, that people blame every loss on Schotty and the failures of this season on Schotty, and that's simply not the case. We are not an offensive coordinator away from the Super Bowl. That's a stupid argument.

[NYJ37/12]

Sanchez has been a part of some successful Jets teams. That doesn't mean it's because of him. You do realize, that Brian Schottenheimer and Eric Smith also were involved in back to back AFCCGs, right? That doesn't mean we were there because of them, or that they weren't holding us back from going further. It's simply remarkable that Jets fans such as yourself are so enamored with mediocrity that they will hold losing in the playoffs in back to back year as an unquestionable measure of success. It's such a losers attitude. Were bears fans destroyed when they let Rex Grossman go? He did after all, take them to their first Super Bowl appearance since 1986. Why do you think that is?

As for the Chad argument you bring back, why is it you have all the answers with him, but refuse to acknowledge that Santana Moss went on to be a pro bowl player once he left Chad? Chad never had any receivers, but the following year, Mark Brunell had a pro bowler. I simply don't get it. As for Coles, we got him back, and you know what, Chad still didn't perform. As for Sanchez, he started his career with nobody, and we went out and got him two former Super Bowl MVPs at WR. But, the fact that they're not performing to the standards you like is simply the WRs fault, and has nothing to do with who's getting them the ball.

Every single one of your arguments is based on what could have been if there were super stars at every position. Meanwhile, what is, is that Sanchez is inaccurate and a terrible decision maker.

You make a great point about Grossman. He was given every chance possible before enough was enough even with the sb appearance.

We still need to see where Mark is at the end of next year.

[NYJ37/12]

coles came back the same year chad was traded.

[NYJ37/12]

I think eli was sb mvp?

[Smashmouth]

smash.. what season did offensive performance (comparative to the rest of the league) not match the talent level you perceived we had, and provide an explanation.. When did we have top 5 (or 10) talent assembled, that Schotty mismanaged to middling output

Chan its not so much overall performance as it is consistency. Its the lack of offensive consistency that kills this team.

[NYJ37/12]

Despite what we all think we know about that play, unless you sit down with schotty and sanchez and get their input, we will never know. we are all guessing.

[ZachEY]

You make a great point about Grossman. He was given every chance possible before enough was enough even with the sb appearance.

We still need to see where Mark is at the end of next year.

The bears replaced Grossman 4 games after he was in the Super Bowl, which was his first 16 game season. Nice try.

[ZachEY]

coles came back the same year chad was traded.

You're only off by 3 years.

http://www.nfl.com/player/laveranuescoles/2503902/profile

[Smashmouth]

Despite what we all think we know about that play, unless you sit down with schotty and sanchez and get their input, we will never know. we are all guessing.

This pretty much sums it up