Sanchez taking flight down the stretch

[Maxman]

I agree they've executed better, especially in the running game. But, as far as taking more chances, I think the offense has been incredibly scaled down with almost no shots downfield. They're doing everything they can to hide Sanchez, and the offense is better for it.

So what is the problem then? I may be missing the context, if this is just about Sanchez then I guess I can see what you are doing.

In my mind it is always just about the NY Jets and what gives them the best chances of winning.

[Maxman]

That's a different team. We are not as good as last year or 2009. That's mostly because of the defenses decline, but the offense hasn't compensated for not having one of the league's best defenses.

That is not a fair statement. You are comparing the end result of those seasons to the current team that is still playing. They are graded on the end result.

Rex's first year that team wasn't exactly headed to the playoffs. If they didn't make it, nobody would say that the '09 team was better than the '11 team right now. They have a shot of winning 11 games this year, they will be judged on the end result.

[ZachEY]

I honestly don't get this. What is the theme, the Jets should have taken more chances? Should have forced the ball to the wideouts? Why? This isn't fantasy football. They took multiple shots down the field with Holmes and they didn't work out.

The Jets top two WRs have 14 Touchdowns. Sanchez has another 5 rushing TDs. This team is much better in the red zone. That is what they will be graded on ultimately.

The theme is that this strategy is fine for beating the Chiefs, Redskins, and Bills, but unlikely to pan out against better teams. There's been a major change in strategy since Denver. While those are wins the Jets need, there's nothing within them that inspires confidence to beat teams not named the Chiefs, Redskins, and Bills.

[ZachEY]

So what is the problem then? I may be missing the context, if this is just about Sanchez then I guess I can see what you are doing.

In my mind it is always just about the NY Jets and what gives them the best chances of winning.

The problem is, I don't believe, as Sharpe says, that this type of offense will get it done against real competition.

[SenorGato]

That's a different team. We are not as good as last year or 2009. That's mostly because of the defenses decline, but the offense hasn't compensated for not having one of the league's best defenses.

The offense is 6th in the league in points scored, the team has a winning record, and despite the dropoff in D the team is still the 2nd tier contender they've been during Sanchez's tenure. It's really really not that bleak...I don't get how it's a bad thing that they laid the smackdown on the Chiefs and Friends without really using the WRs...who REALLY buys that Plaxico and Holmes can't hang when it matters?

One of these days we Jet fans can brag about how we use the Jets QB in FF...but that's just noise...I could not possibly care less how the job gets done so long as the job is done.

[Maxman]

The theme is that this strategy is fine for beating the Chiefs, Redskins, and Bills, but unlikely to pan out against better teams. There's been a major change in strategy since Denver. While those are wins the Jets need, there's nothing within them that inspires confidence to beat teams not named the Chiefs, Redskins, and Bills.

I think Tom Moore has been heavily involved in recent weeks and I see better execution more than anything else. I am just not going to complain that the Jets are beating bad teams, you play who is in front of you. Time will tell what they are capable of doing. I just feel that they are on the right track as an organization and having Tom Moore around will help them when the level of competition improves.

[Maxman]

The offense is 6th in the league in points scored, the team has a winning record, and despite the dropoff in D the team is still the 2nd tier contender they've been during Sanchez's tenure. It's really really not that bleak...I don't get how it's a bad thing that they laid the smackdown on the Chiefs and Friends without really using the WRs...who REALLY buys that Plaxico and Holmes can't hang when it matters?

One of these days we Jet fans can brag about how we use the Jets QB in FF...but that's just noise...I could not possibly care how the job gets done so long as the job is done.

Amen. The wideouts have 14 touchdowns this year, Mark has 5 rushing TDs because people are so focused on the wideouts. The Jets are running the ball with authority right now.

Smells a lot like a playoff formula to me. Run the ball, avoid costly turnovers and execute in the red zone.

[SenorGato]

I think Tom Moore has been heavily involved in recent weeks and I see better execution more than anything else. I am just not going to complain that the Jets are beating bad teams, you play who is in front of you. Time will tell what they are capable of doing. I just feel that they are on the right track as an organization and having Tom Moore around will help them when the level of competition improves.

*Bows respectfully*

[JustInFudge]

Well, not so much.

First, I don't agree with you on the Pats. So, there's that. 2nd, Baltimore is better than us on both sides of the ball, so there's that. 3rd, you think the 49ers are going anywhere? 4th, while the Saints do it a lot, they have a significant downfield threat within their offense, that we really do not.

And, the chains have moved for 3 weeks, against bad football teams, and done so by taking less chances. That does nothing to inspire confidence that the chains can move against good ones. Since, you know, they really haven't this season.

I feel like you keep moving the goal post here. You compared the Jets to the better teams in the league and I pointed out that 4 of what is considered to be the best teams in the league, play small ball and use their TE and RB's a bunch. You're kinda giving me the, yeah, it works for them...but we're not them which the only difference is the QB. So, really, whats the difference?

And if you've noticed - there's only 1 team out there moving the ball well vs. a top notch defense, the Packers. Everyone else struggles vs. a good D...its what makes that D good.

The problem is, I don't believe, as Sharpe says, that this type of offense will get it done against real competition.

Sure it will. The Jets have had success against real competition going back the last 3 years using the same philosophy.

[ZachEY]

That is not a fair statement. You are comparing the end result of those seasons to the current team that is still playing. They are graded on the end result.

Rex's first year that team wasn't exactly headed to the playoffs. If they didn't make it, nobody would say that the '09 team was better than the '11 team right now. They have a shot of winning 11 games this year, they will be judged on the end result.

The defense was statistically, and just by the eye test, significantly better.

The offense is better in the redzone by a lot, but still pretty inept at getting there.

[ZachEY]

I feel like you keep moving the goal post here. You compared the Jets to the better teams in the league and I pointed out that 4 of what is considered to be the best teams in the league, play small ball and use their TE and RB's a bunch. You're kinda giving me the, yeah, it works for them...but we're not them which the only difference is the QB. So, really, whats the difference?

And if you've noticed - there's only 1 team out there moving the ball well vs. a top notch defense, the Packers. Everyone else struggles vs. a good D...its what makes that D good.

Sure it will. The Jets have had success against real competition going back the last 3 years using the same philosophy.

Struggles and inept are not the same. What we've seen is ineptitude.

As for small ball, other teams play a similar strategy at their base, but we've shown no ability to go beyond that strategy successfully. Even the simple fact of having to fear the downfield attack is meaningful. We don't have that, we just have small ball.

[SenorGato]

Amen. The wideouts have 14 touchdowns this year, Mark has 5 rushing TDs because people are so focused on the wideouts. The Jets are running the ball with authority right now.

Smells a lot like a playoff formula to me. Run the ball, avoid costly turnovers and execute in the red zone.

Exactly...Really not that big a deal. One day that high end FF offense and QB we all dream of having will be here...For the time being Sanchez is a shytedick 24 year old, and the organization has been smart enough to realize that and not put it all on him.

Personally, as much as I want to kill them for daring to beat crappy teams easily, I really liked what I saw from the offense in that time span. I like it even more knowing that they haven't really had ALL the offensive personnel together yet in a game, meaning there's new wrinkles that can/will be added.

[ZachEY]

I think Tom Moore has been heavily involved in recent weeks and I see better execution more than anything else. I am just not going to complain that the Jets are beating bad teams, you play who is in front of you. Time will tell what they are capable of doing. I just feel that they are on the right track as an organization and having Tom Moore around will help them when the level of competition improves.

I'm not complaining that their beating bad teams. I'm talking about projections.

After the Pats game, I said I thought the Jets could possibly win out at their current level of play. I've revised that to thinking we're not likely to beat the Giants, and I'm scared of the Eagles based on speed. But, my forecast was pretty positive for the rest of the season. Having said that, I don't believe in this team to the degree that I think they can beat any of the top AFC contenders. And, we've gotten killed by them thus far this season.

[JustInFudge]

Struggles and inept are not the same. What we've seen is ineptitude.

As for small ball, other teams play a similar strategy at their base, but we've shown no ability to go beyond that strategy successfully. Even the simple fact of having to fear the downfield attack is meaningful. We don't have that, we just have small ball.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to argue our offense is good. I'm just saying that the small ball formula can most certainly work...but it all starts up front or you have to have a lights out QB. Which we dont, but luckily, it does look like the OL is starting to play some Football which I attribute to our recent success rather than our game plan, Sanchez or competition for that matter.

[SenorGato]

I'm not complaining that their beating bad teams. I'm talking about projections.

After the Pats game, I said I thought the Jets could possibly win out at their current level of play. I've revised that to thinking we're not likely to beat the Giants, and I'm scared of the Eagles based on speed. But, my forecast was pretty positive for the rest of the season. Having said that, I don't believe in this team to the degree that I think they can beat any of the top AFC contenders. And, we've gotten killed by them thus far this season.

The Ravens? Sure they're big and intimidating but that team can fck a goat...In fact, all three of those teams have major flaws.

[Maxman]

Struggles and inept are not the same. What we've seen is ineptitude.

As for small ball, other teams play a similar strategy at their base, but we've shown no ability to go beyond that strategy successfully. Even the simple fact of having to fear the downfield attack is meaningful. We don't have that, we just have small ball.

Well hopefully you are right and we can start talking about the draft really soon lol.

[SenorGato]

Well hopefully you are right and we can start talking about the draft really soon lol.

Maybe the JN draft forum can be more than a 5-6 post thing.

[Maxman]

Exactly...Really not that big a deal. One day that high end FF offense and QB we all dream of having will be here...For the time being Sanchez is a shytedick 24 year old, and the organization has been smart enough to realize that and not put it all on him.

Personally, as much as I want to kill them for daring to beat crappy teams easily, I really liked what I saw from the offense in that time span. I like it even more knowing that they haven't really had ALL the offensive personnel together yet in a game, meaning there's new wrinkles that can/will be added.

And hopefully the reduced workload for LT pays off in the postseason!

[Maxman]

Maybe the JN draft forum can be more than a 5-6 post thing.

Personally I never wanted a draft forum.

[SenorGato]

And hopefully the reduced workload for LT pays off in the postseason!

That was the plan from what LT said...He was a first half back last year because they didn't know he'd tire so quickly and fully in the 2nd half...

Oh and boooo on the draft forum thing.

[T0mShane]

If the Jets compete with the Eagles, they're for real. If not, they're the Chiefs. This is a HUGE game this weekend.

[Larz]

26 TD's in 13 games ?

he sucks !!!!

[Mogglez]

Um, Baltimore is better than us. They proved that with their record, and quite easily earlier in the season.

As for critical, my point has been the same as it's always been, and it doesn't change based on 3 solid games against bad teams... We are a good enough football team to win games, but not good enough to take the next step. The Quarterback is a huge part of the reason for that.

But yeah, my thesis is delusional... I mean, just look at our record against winning teams... Oh, wait.

Call me crazy....I don't think they are. I honestly believe we have mangold in that game, we see a completely different result. You want to complain that we are a Jekyll and Hyde team??? Baltimore's 3 losses have been to Tennessee, JACKSONVILLE, and Seattle, they barely beat Pitt in one game and almost lost to Kevin freaking Kolb and the cardinals. So no, Im not impressed, nor intimidated by that team whatsoever.

Flacco has been awful, worse than Sanchez in fact. So why is Baltimore a better team than us? Their quarterback, sure as hell isn't the reason.

[ZachEY]

So why is Baltimore a better team than us? Their quarterback, sure as hell isn't the reason.

Well, their record, and head to head competition says they're better than us. You say if we had a different center in the game, we'd have beaten them.

And, if you want to deal in hypothetical situations, if Joe McKnight doesn't return a kick back for a TD, and David Harris doesn't return an interception for a TD, we are left with 3 points scored by the offense. But, yeah, I'd venture to say a center is worth about 30 points in that game.

[GimmeShelter]

If the Jets compete with the Eagles, they're for real. If not, they're the Chiefs. This is a HUGE game this weekend.

Not sure a loss makes us the Chiefs but it will put in better perspective that wins over KC -Skins and Bills as being nothing to scream about.

Looking back, the Denver loss is so horrible in that it has put us in this situation where we cannot afford a loss. Would have loved to be able to afford a loss this week or next and still be in ok play-off shape.

[Mogglez]

Well, their record, and head to head competition says they're better than us. You say if we had a different center in the game, we'd have beaten them.

And, if you want to deal in hypothetical situations, if Joe McKnight doesn't return a kick back for a TD, and David Harris doesn't return an interception for a TD, we are left with 3 points scored by the offense. But, yeah, I'd venture to say a center is worth about 30 points in that game.

Regarding Mangold, I feel if the protection for Sanchez was better, those fumble/picks may not happen and he may be able to actually produce something on offense. Like you said though, those are all very huge ifs. But imo, I just don't feel like the Ravens are this football powerhouse that everyone is making them out to be. Just like Gato said, they have some pretty big flaws. They've lost to pitiful teams they should have cruised by, and Flacco has been god awful this season. For all the bitching and moaning about Sanchez, Flacco has been nauseating to watch this year. You complained that one of our major problems this year has been the quarterback not making the next step and ultimately that is why we won't take the next step yet as a team. All im asking is what makes them so much better off with Flacco?

[villain_the_foe]

Im not surprised. The kid is clutch. Im glad we drafted him.

[Maxman]

Well, their record, and head to head competition says they're better than us. You say if we had a different center in the game, we'd have beaten them.

And, if you want to deal in hypothetical situations, if Joe McKnight doesn't return a kick back for a TD, and David Harris doesn't return an interception for a TD, we are left with 3 points scored by the offense. But, yeah, I'd venture to say a center is worth about 30 points in that game.

Did you ever play Center in the NFL?

I don't think so. Therefore you don't know, nor can you speak with authority on, how many points the best center in the NFL is worth to his team.

[Maxman]

Oh and let me add this before anyone takes my last post seriously.

[CTM]

I feel like you keep moving the goal post here. You compared the Jets to the better teams in the league and I pointed out that 4 of what is considered to be the best teams in the league, play small ball and use their TE and RB's a bunch. You're kinda giving me the, yeah, it works for them...but we're not them which the only difference is the QB. So, really, whats the difference?

pats and saint use the te so much cause they have great athlete there... Further, pats and saints have great qb's that defenses have to respect, we don't

[Kleckineau]

Taking flight ? Really?

MS career avgs, ypp 6.6, compl 55%

CP career avgs, ypp 7.2, compl 66%

If he ever learns the downfield passing game he will be dangerous.

[T0mShane]

Taking flight ? Really?

MS career avgs, ypp 6.6, compl 55%

CP career avgs, ypp 7.2, compl 66%

If he ever learns the downfield passing game he will be dangerous.

Aaaaaaaaand I'm sad again.

[SenorGato]

pats and saint use the te so much cause they have great athlete there... Further, pats and saints have great qb's that defenses have to respect, we don't

Teams respect Sanchez. There's no way they can't with how clutch he is. What they don't respect is the playbook.

[stoicsentry]

Mark has progressed every year. Year 1 to year 2 and again year 2 to year 3. I say we postpone the argument until he has a season where he doesn't have significant progression.

[Maxman]

Mark has progressed every year. Year 1 to year 2 and again year 2 to year 3. I say we postpone the argument until he has a season where he doesn't have significant progression.

I would settle for postponing until the offseason. The talk about the Jets defense in this thread is too early imo. They all get graded on how far they go!