I am sick of all this Tebow starting crud, What do you guys think?

[johnny utah]

I stayed up until 4.00 am on Saturday night watching that crap...i'm going to complain to Ryan i want my four hours back...bastards !

[The Crusher]

You would think that all this Tebow talk would motivate this USC kid to try much harder, yet he's folding like a house of cards with his lackluster performances. At least Tebow looks like he's trying and yells at his recievers when they don't come back to his underthrown balls..

He actually starting folding last year. I hate to say it but I think we have seen the best of Sanchez. I really do.

[bitonti]

The OL is so ****ing bad.

people say that, it's just not true. Nick Mangold is the best center alive. Dbrick is a 3x Pro Bowl. There are about 20 lines markedly worse than the Jets.

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can get rid of the ball quickly. It makes the OL look worse than it is. Look at Buffalo that OL sucks far worse than the Jets OL, but that Chan Gailey system is all about quick reads and quick throws. Bang bang it's gone. The problem with the OL is that the QB's ask them to do too much. And even when Sanchez gets all day to throw he throws a pick 6. It's all about the QB. People blaming Wayne Hunter are the same people who blamed Schotty. Eventually we can blame everyone in the stadium and they will all be fired, and the only one left to blame will be Mark.

[ZachEY]

I don't really understand why people WANT Tebow to end up starting. When Tim Tebow starts games for the Jets, you can mark that Sunday as the day the Jets season ends.

I just don't drink the "he's a winner because he's Tim Tebow" kool-aid. Sorry. Yes, he's a dynamic runner (who the Jets are brutally wasting on special teams). But he cannot throw the ball. We saw that Saturday. He was under pressure too, of course, but he's worse than Sanchez, hard as that is to believe.

To paraphrase an old friend, 'The 2012 season ended on April 25th, 2009'.

[ZachEY]

You would think that all this Tebow talk would motivate this USC kid to try much harder, yet he's folding like a house of cards with his lackluster performances. At least Tebow looks like he's trying and yells at his recievers when they don't come back to his underthrown balls..

Do you really think it's lack of effort?

Maybe it's just lack of being good at football...

[ZachEY]

people say that, it's just not true. Nick Mangold is the best center alive. Dbrick is a 3x Pro Bowl. There are about 20 lines markedly worse than the Jets.

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can get rid of the ball quickly. It makes the OL look worse than it is. Look at Buffalo that OL sucks far worse than the Jets OL, but that Chan Gailey system is all about quick reads and quick throws. Bang bang it's gone. The problem with the OL is that the QB's ask them to do too much. And even when Sanchez gets all day to throw he throws a pick 6. It's all about the QB. People blaming Wayne Hunter are the same people who blamed Schotty. Eventually we can blame everyone in the stadium and they will all be fired, and the only one left to blame will be Mark.

Dude, few people like Sanchez less than I do... That said, Wayne Hunter is a huge problem.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive. You saw Wayne Hunter give Sanchez little time to throw against the Giants. Then, you saw what happens when Sanchez had time to throw against the Giants.

[Matt39]

Are people really trying to convince themselves that Hunter isnt a problem? The second someone engages contact with him he falls back and is off balanced. Name another tackle in the league that happens to. Hunter's not just getting beat, he's getting driven back the second he's touched.

Sanchez is obviously a moron, but no QB in the league could be successful with a lineman that literally cant block.

[kay_gee]

Are people really trying to convince themselves that Hunter isnt a problem? The second someone engages contact with him he falls back and is off balanced. Name another tackle in the league that happens to. Hunter's not just getting beat, he's getting driven back the second he's touched.

Sanchez is obviously a moron, but no QB in the league could be successful with a lineman that literally cant block.

Agree. It's really hard to gauge where the passing game is because of this. We have seen a couple of actual good things from Sanchez - he has stepped up in the pocket, and he has protected the ball with both hands (no fumbles so far). He still holds on to the ball too long, but it's hard to tell exactly how good/bad he is when he's barely getting adequate time to throw before Hunter rolls over. Hunter compounds the problem in such a way that he's a huge part of it.

[Matt39]

Agree. It's really hard to gauge where the passing game is because of this. We have seen a couple of actual good things from Sanchez - he has stepped up in the pocket, and he has protected the ball with both hands (no fumbles so far). He still holds on to the ball too long, but it's hard to tell exactly how good/bad he is when he's barely getting adequate time to throw before Hunter rolls over. Hunter compounds the problem in such a way that he's a huge part of it.

brick isnt without blame here either if were talking about the Giants game. Sanchez stepped up a few times after Hunter was beat only to be met with Tuck or Osi or whomever it was beating Brick to the inside.

[JustInFudge]

people say that, it's just not true. Nick Mangold is the best center alive. Dbrick is a 3x Pro Bowl. There are about 20 lines markedly worse than the Jets.

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can get rid of the ball quickly. It makes the OL look worse than it is. Look at Buffalo that OL sucks far worse than the Jets OL, but that Chan Gailey system is all about quick reads and quick throws. Bang bang it's gone. The problem with the OL is that the QB's ask them to do too much. And even when Sanchez gets all day to throw he throws a pick 6. It's all about the QB. People blaming Wayne Hunter are the same people who blamed Schotty. Eventually we can blame everyone in the stadium and they will all be fired, and the only one left to blame will be Mark.

We have a sh*tty QB yes but the OL sucks something awful.

Stop defending this OL. Its garbage. Dont care how many probowlers are on it.

[shawn306]

McElroy > All

[bitonti]

We have a sh*tty QB yes but the OL sucks something awful.

Stop defending this OL. Its garbage. Dont care how many probowlers are on it.

I don't think that the naysayers have a good sense of what other team's ol look like. There's really not many teams with more talent on the line, believe it or not. Jets are in the top 10 easy, even with Hunter.

[kay_gee]

brick isnt without blame here either if were talking about the Giants game. Sanchez stepped up a few times after Hunter was beat only to be met with Tuck or Osi or whomever it was beating Brick to the inside.

Also true. I will say though that Brick typically holds defenders off longer than Hunter does.

[bitonti]

Are people really trying to convince themselves that Hunter isnt a problem?

I'm not saying Hunter isn't a problem. What I'm saying is if Mark was decent he could overcome this problem. they are paying him to be awesome and he's not even decent.

[The Crusher]

people say that, it's just not true. Nick Mangold is the best center alive. Dbrick is a 3x Pro Bowl. There are about 20 lines markedly worse than the Jets.

The problem is that neither Sanchez nor Tebow can get rid of the ball quickly. It makes the OL look worse than it is. Look at Buffalo that OL sucks far worse than the Jets OL, but that Chan Gailey system is all about quick reads and quick throws. Bang bang it's gone. The problem with the OL is that the QB's ask them to do too much. And even when Sanchez gets all day to throw he throws a pick 6. It's all about the QB. People blaming Wayne Hunter are the same people who blamed Schotty. Eventually we can blame everyone in the stadium and they will all be fired, and the only one left to blame will be Mark.

Possibly

[dbatesman]

Dude, few people like Sanchez less than I do... That said, Wayne Hunter is a huge problem.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive. You saw Wayne Hunter give Sanchez little time to throw against the Giants. Then, you saw what happens when Sanchez had time to throw against the Giants.

Are people really trying to convince themselves that Hunter isnt a problem? The second someone engages contact with him he falls back and is off balanced. Name another tackle in the league that happens to. Hunter's not just getting beat, he's getting driven back the second he's touched.

Sanchez is obviously a moron, but no QB in the league could be successful with a lineman that literally cant block.

The conversation is irrelevant. As long as Sanchez is here, the passing game is for sh*t, regardless of who the RT is.

[Pac]

[Matt39]

I'm not saying Hunter isn't a problem. What I'm saying is if Mark was decent he could overcome this problem. they are paying him to be awesome and he's not even decent.

Salary aside no one is overcoming a player that is being put on an island that can't play the position.

[kay_gee]

I don't understand how you make the argument that OL is irrlevant if the QB is amazing. Sanchez isn't great but nobody's going to be very successful if they're THISCLOSE to being crushed every play.

[Matt39]

The conversation is irrelevant. As long as Sanchez is here, the passing game is for sh*t, regardless of who the RT is.

You cant have a RT starting that can no play at all. Sanchez is in the bottom 5, but Hunter is making non competitve efforts.

[Lil Bit Special]

[JustInFudge]

I don't think that the naysayers have a good sense of what other team's ol look like. There's really not many teams with more talent on the line, believe it or not. Jets are in the top 10 easy, even with Hunter.

Thats fine that individually there is talent on the OL. As a collective unit, they suck, really really bad.

[ZachEY]

I don't understand how you make the argument that OL is irrlevant if the QB is amazing. Sanchez isn't great but nobody's going to be very successful if they're THISCLOSE to being crushed every play.

Again... Really?

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/30/three-years-of-passing-under-pressure/

[dbatesman]

You cant have a RT starting that can no play at all. Sanchez is in the bottom 5, but Hunter is making non competitve efforts.

I know. And I know it's a lot easier to find a right tackle than a QB. I just can't get worked up about it anymore. If we replaced Hunter with an absolute stud like Vollmer or Stewart, the offense would still suck because the triggerman is utterly incompetent.

[Matt39]

Again... Really?

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/30/three-years-of-passing-under-pressure/

With this new NFL network thingy Im finally getting I've gotten a chance to watch a lot of football(preseason albeit) and I havent seen one team with the protection issues as bad as the Jets....Hunter is so bad.

[ZachEY]

With this new NFL network thingy Im finally getting I've gotten a chance to watch a lot of football(preseason albeit) and I havent seen one team with the protection issues as bad as the Jets....Hunter is so bad.

Maybe this year is/will be different. The numbers are pretty unbiased.

[Matt39]

I know. And I know it's a lot easier to find a right tackle than a QB. I just can't get worked up about it anymore. If we replaced Hunter with an absolute stud like Vollmer or Stewart, the offense would still suck because the triggerman is utterly incompetent.

The offense wouldnt be as bad though. We'd be able to probably play the field position game a bit more and not lead the league in 3 and outs. There'd be a lot of boring games and all...but at least we'd be able to attempt passes and not be punting after 3 plays at 4th and 17.

[bitonti]

here's a very good article about qb's and how they perform under pressure

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/30/three-years-of-passing-under-pressure/

[JohnnyHector]

here's a very good article about qb's and how they perform under pressure

http://www.profootba...under-pressure/

The other PFF link actually makes Sanchez's performance last year look even worse.

[RutgersJetFan]

Once upon a time Shane threw a hissy fit when I linked up to PFF to prove a point. Now even bitonti's jumped on board. Chalk up another W for the nerds. Want some grapes? Bitches.

[Matt39]

Once upon a time Shane threw a hissy fit when I linked up to PFF to prove a point. Now even bitonti's jumped on board. Chalk up another W for the nerds. Want some grapes? Bitches.

Relying so heavily on DVOA is where you guys sometimes lose me. PFF is awesome though.

[HDKostempski]

Salary aside no one is overcoming a player that is being put on an island that can't play the position.

The "solution" to Wayne Hunter at RT is NOT to have an OL blocking scheme that puts him out there on an island! RTs frequently get help from blocking TEs and RBs. Sometimes they also get help from the RG. Don't tell me that the Jets couldn't find a single blocking TE during FA that they could afford. Good grief, convert one of their young FA OTs into a TE if they don't have any better options.

Recognize that what you're doing is NOT working and figure out a work around! That's the problem with Tony Sparano as your OC: he's NOT a creative or proactive thinker. Hunter is NOT going to get better by sprinkling him with pixie dust. Get him some help!

I agree with bitonti that better QB play could help out the OL a lot, too. It's NOT all on the OL.

[Matt39]

The "solution" to Wayne Hunter at RT is NOT to have an OL blocking scheme that puts him out there on island! RTs frequently get help from blocking TEs and RBs. Sometimes they also get help from the RG. Don't tell me that the Jets couldn't find a single blocking TE during FA that they could afford. Good grief, convert one of their young FA OTs into a TE if they don't have any better options.

Recognize that what you're doing is NOT working and figure out a work around! That's the problem with Tony Sparano as your OC: he's NOT a creative or proactive thinker. Hunter is NOT going to get better by sprinkling him with pixie dust. Get him some help!

I agree bitonti that better QB play could help out the OL a lot, too. It's NOT all on the OL.

At this point it almost seems intentional that the Jets ignored the offense so they could see Sanchez humiliate himself as much as possible this season.

[RutgersJetFan]

Relying so heavily on DVOA is where you guys sometimes lose me. PFF is awesome though.

It's generally a misunderstood statistic because regression based statistical methods aren't intuitive or widely learned unless you have some professional use for them. There are guys at the highest level of several fields that have trouble explaining it to people because it's a step by step process of learning that takes infinite patience and time. A 1-page primer like FO gives probably isn't going to clear it up for you either unless you just have a natural gift for it, which is rare. The beauty of DVOA is that it measures Mark Sanchez's value to the Jets offense with the other players on the Jets under the Jets' coaches and Jets' schedule. Which, in reality, is all that matters. Way more so than all the ambiguous conventional numbers that don't take into account direct and indirect effects. And those mean the world. PFF doesn't exactly do this, which is why FO's numbers are much more reliable and way more similar to what NFL teams actually use. I've said for a while that I think FO would be better off if they didn't display it as a ranking system, because that's not how those numbers should be interpreted and that's not what DVOA is meant to show. Really all the rankings do is give context to how good or bad another player's DVOA or DYAR is compared to others; but that's where it ends and I think it leads to too much misinterpretation and ambivalence when someone not familiar with stats sees that. Obviously Tony Romo isn't the 4th best quarterback in football, but when it's seen displayed that way on the page, that's how someone who doesn't have any training in stats is going to view it, and rightfully so. I don't think FO really cares and they let the primers speak for themselves, but it would help in gaining them better acceptance in my opinion.

[dbatesman]

At this point it almost seems intentional that the Jets ignored the offense so they could see Sanchez humiliate himself as much as possible this season.

If this were actually the case, I'd support giving Tannenbaum an extension.