Who Loves Mark Sanchez?

[gangreenman]

Sanchez has shown flashes of excellence, as well as flashes of complete sucktitude. The one reason I am optimistic this year? His best games have all been high-pressure, must-win games with the eyes of everyone upon him. And for Mark Sanchez, that will be the case this entire season. We'll see what happens out there.

Having said that, I do not love the Tebow move... Tim is not a legit QB that will really "push" Sanchez as much as compliment him...And he is a guy that cannot be a normal, quiet, backup. He needs to be in a position of leadership, and I do think that has had a negative affect on Mark.

[artemusclyde]

Exactly, it's a matter of how bad it is... it sure seemed like there was a drop off in play around mid season last year. If that was attributable to the shoulder, then I'm wondering how that should is holding up right now.

Can you explain the immaturity? This gets thrown around a lot about him but I never hear a good explanation of it. All of the incidents that I remember are small and relatively meaningless:

-He ate a hot dog once on the sidelines. Ok...

-He once read a prepared statement. Ok...

Meanwhile, maturity:

-He holds a mini-camp of his own with fellow players in California every year.

-He never gets into it with the press. Not once. No skipping interviews, no cursing or yelling or anything...

-He hasn't been arrested. No off the field issues, except whatever that was (and I'm not going to pretend to understand with that 17 year old girl.) Also, one thing I remember coming out about his personal life was that time he visited a sick kid and gave him his cell phone number and kept in touch with him. Pure class.

-Handled the Tebow thing without a single public complaint, and always very professional about it.

So the 'immaturity' thing just doesn't ring true for me, and I think it bothers me because honestly there's so many fair things to criticize the guy about that it's kinda like they're trying to make stuff up.

Yeah again there's so much to criticize Mark about, this stuff about lacking worth ethic, being immature, etc. sounds invented.

The immaturity thing is a tad bit overblown, even I'll admit that but their are some key points that does make him seem immature. Mainly being him lacking mental toughness ie when ever things starts to go bad he starts to pout. Also, it doesn't help that he threw his entire o line under the bus and said that he played a pretty good game.

[slats]

How pathetic is it that going into his 4th season, our #5 overall pick is considered an underdog?

He's not the first high pick still trying to find his way after three seasons. Some of them turn the corner, and some of them don't. I'm happy to root for the guy to turn the corner.

[T0mShane]

I'm happy to root for the guy to turn the corner.

And Jamarcus Russell.

[TheSage]

I mean, if the absolute most homerific thing you can say about Sanchez is "he's pretty good but could be REALLY good if not for x, y, and z", that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

These are the most homerific things you can say about some other QB's around the league that will only maybe get you laughed at by about 5 % of average fans:

Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Brady, Brees: "Best QB of all-time."

Rivers, Roethlisberger, Romo, Vick, Stafford, Newton: "Really f***ing good, maybe even elite."

Cutler, Ryan, Schaub, Flacco, Dalton, Palmer, Freeman, Fitzpatrick: "Ready to take that next step into top 5-10 status."

Luck, Griffin III, Locker: "Best QB prospect since ______"

And then there's this group......

Sanchez, Gabbert, Smith, Kolb, Cassel, Bradford: "Blah blah blah excuses excuses excuses."

Except for the first group and roethlisberger should be included in that group there is only one who has won as many playoff games as Sanchez -Flacco and he had an additional year to do it. it's easy to knock a man but at the same time at least acknowledge what he has accomplished. The only year he did not get to a championship game he had bad o line for chunk of the year, a lousy coordinator, receivers who can't seem to get separation.........

's

[Sperm Edwards]

Exactly, it's a matter of how bad it is... it sure seemed like there was a drop off in play around mid season last year. If that was attributable to the shoulder, then I'm wondering how that should is holding up right now.

Can you explain the immaturity? This gets thrown around a lot about him but I never hear a good explanation of it. All of the incidents that I remember are small and relatively meaningless:

-He ate a hot dog once on the sidelines. Ok...

-He once read a prepared statement. Ok...

Meanwhile, maturity:

-He holds a mini-camp of his own with fellow players in California every year.

-He never gets into it with the press. Not once. No skipping interviews, no cursing or yelling or anything...

-He hasn't been arrested. No off the field issues, except whatever that was (and I'm not going to pretend to understand with that 17 year old girl.) Also, one thing I remember coming out about his personal life was that time he visited a sick kid and gave him his cell phone number and kept in touch with him. Pure class.

-Handled the Tebow thing without a single public complaint, and always very professional about it.

So the 'immaturity' thing just doesn't ring true for me, and I think it bothers me because honestly there's so many fair things to criticize the guy about that it's kinda like they're trying to make stuff up.

Yeah again there's so much to criticize Mark about, this stuff about lacking worth ethic, being immature, etc. sounds invented.

The immaturity is the sulking & pouting little girl routine on the sidelines. For me, anyway, that is immature. Very immature.

A grownup leader doesn't do that. Let alone in front of not just his team, and even worse in front of his team and TV cameras.

Total self-absorbed baby whose expression reads as though he feels sorry for himself more than he's upset for the team. That's how it looks to me, anyway.

Also a mature team leader doesn't pick his nose and wipe the booger on a veteran teammate who was solely brought in to help with his development. Or was that a totally mature thing to do and I don't know what I'm talking about?

And these are just some of the things we've seen. Lord only knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[T0mShane]

"It's not in my DNA to yell at guys, but..."

GTFO

You're either a leader or you're not. Dude is a urinal dressed like a quarterback.

[BlackDynamite]

I grade Mark statistically, and realistically.

Mark Sanchez games with 100+ rating in his first 3 seasons: 9 games

Phil Simms and Eli Manning games with 100+ rating first 3 seasons: 8 games each

Hall of Famer Troy Aikman: 7 games

Mark Sanchez in the Playoffs: 4-2 record. 3 out of 6 games with 100+ rating. Four road playoff wins. Beat Peyton manning and Tom lady back-to-back. Career Playoff QB Rating: 94+

Offensive Coordinator (Heavy on the "offensive"): Brian Schottenheimer

New Offensive Coordinator: Tony Sparano (Slightly less "offensive" than Brian)

Number of true "#1" receivers he's had in 3, going on 4, seasons: 0.5 (Santonio is a classic #2 receiver. Steve Smith would be a #1 at that size.)

If you are Peyton Manning or Tom Lady, you can make due with mediocre talent on the field. Of course, they had Tom Moore & Charlie Weis running the offense, and they are A LITTLE bit better than Schotty/Sparano. Just a taste....

How similar Mark is to Eli Manning is haunting, in their regular season performance and post season performances, at least through 3 seasons. Eli wasn't spectacular in his fourth season, the Super Bowl season. Far from it. But he played great in the Playoffs, as Mark has done, and the team got on a roll, like last year.

If you hate Mark at this point, then you had to hate Eli in 2007. MANY QBs, Eli Manning, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, were actually mediocre QBs most of their careers, but had great playoff runs.

Hopefully, Mark can continue of their path, and his own. Play ok during the season, but play great in the Playoffs.

I support Mark, officially. With Sparano and this WR core, he's only going to do so much as a passer. Weak WRs and a weak OC you can't overcome. One yes. Both, no......

BD

[artemusclyde]

I grade Mark statistically, and realistically.

Mark Sanchez games with 100+ rating in his first 3 seasons: 9 games

Phil Simms and Eli Manning games with 100+ rating first 3 seasons: 8 games each

Hall of Famer Troy Aikman: 7 games

Mark Sanchez in the Playoffs: 4-2 record. 3 out of 6 games with 100+ rating. Four road playoff wins. Beat Peyton manning and Tom lady back-to-back. Career Playoff QB Rating: 94+

Offensive Coordinator (Heavy on the "offensive"): Brian Schottenheimer

New Offensive Coordinator: Tony Sparano (Slightly less "offensive" than Brian)

Number of true "#1" receivers he's had in 3, going on 4, seasons: 0.5 (Santonio is a classic #2 receiver. Steve Smith would be a #1 at that size.)

If you are Peyton Manning or Tom Lady, you can make due with mediocre talent on the field. Of course, they had Tom Moore & Charlie Weis running the offense, and they are A LITTLE bit better than Schotty/Sparano. Just a taste....

How similar Mark is to Eli Manning is haunting, in their regular season performance and post season performances, at least through 3 seasons. Eli wasn't spectacular in his fourth season, the Super Bowl season. Far from it. But he played great in the Playoffs, as Mark has done, and the team got on a roll, like last year.

If you hate Mark at this point, then you had to hate Eli in 2007. MANY QBs, Eli Manning, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, were actually mediocre QBs most of their careers, but had great playoff runs.

Hopefully, Mark can continue of their path, and his own. Play ok during the season, but play great in the Playoffs.

I support Mark, officially. With Sparano and this WR core, he's only going to do so much as a passer. Weak WRs and a weak OC you can't overcome. One yes. Both, no......

BD

True, but those qb's you mentioned all showed leadership capabilities, which Sanchez doesn't have. Also, it doesn't help that you see rookie qbs blowing it up and also russell wilson blowing it up in Seattle.

Plus it also doesn't help that a lot of the sentimentality about this guy is this; since were stuck with him we might as well roll with him. This is not the qb sentimentality you want. This shows a complete lack of faith the fans and the team have in. You have to ask yourself this, is this the guy you want leading your team. A guy who even the team has thrown all pr out the window and basically thrown him under the bus. At least Tebow's team voted for him as one of the top 100 players in the league.

[BlackDynamite]

"True, but those qb's you mentioned all showed leadership capabilities, which Sanchez doesn't have."

Can't agree with you on that. He has 9 or 10 fourth quarter comeback victories. 4 road playoff wins. Led the Jets to win the Playoff game against Peyton manning and the Colts with a two-minute drive. Plus the AFC Title game loss, led the offense to score 16 points in the second half against that defense. If the Jets D makes that stop on 3rd down, the Jets are going to The Show!

Is he the next great QB? Probably not. But Jets fans quickly forget all the good things he has done. He's not Richard Todd. He's played big in big spots. And he's clearly a better QB than Tebow. And to this point, he has matched Eli Manning, so give him a chance to finish the job....

BD

[artemusclyde]

"True, but those qb's you mentioned all showed leadership capabilities, which Sanchez doesn't have."

Can't agree with you on that. He has 9 or 10 fourth quarter comeback victories. 4 road playoff wins. Led the Jets to win the Playoff game against Peyton manning and the Colts with a two-minute drive. Plus the AFC Title game loss, led the offense to score 16 points in the second half against that defense. If the Jets D makes that stop on 3rd down, the Jets are going to The Show!

Is he the next great QB? Probably not. But Jets fans quickly forget all the good things he has done. He's not Richard Todd. He's played big in big spots. And he's clearly a better QB than Tebow. And to this point, he has matched Eli Manning, so give him a chance to finish the job....

BD

A qb that is criticized by his teammates in the media and has a full on locker room problem is definitely not a leader. Tebow is a better leader than Sanchize, can't argue that. Plus its starting to look like Tebow has more upside than Sanchize does.

[slats]

A qb that is criticized by his teammates in the media and has a full on locker room problem is definitely not a leader. Tebow is a better leader than Sanchize, can't argue that. Plus its starting to look like Tebow has more upside than Sanchize does.

To whom?

If the Jets believed that, they'd be working Tebow at QB and not at wildcat specialist/punt protector. The man was brought in here to play a role, and that's what he's going to do. The Jets didn't give Sanchez a $40M extension to sit him on the bench for a 46.5% passer.

[artemusclyde]

To whom?

If the Jets believed that, they'd be working Tebow at QB and not at wildcat specialist/punt protector. The man was brought in here to play a role, and that's what he's going to do. The Jets didn't give Sanchez a $40M extension to sit him on the bench for a 46.5% passer.

Tebow can at least move the chains. Something that Sanchez has yet to show he is capable of doing yet. Also, Tebow isn't a pick throwing machine like Sanchez is. Plus he also brings in a very good running component to our offense. Give Tebow a few years to get his passing down and he will blow Sanchez out of the water.

Also, Sanchez isn't that good of a passer either. And also, Sanchez has been in the league longer then Tim, who basically is a rookie in terms of starts, and isn't that much better at passing. At least Tebow can run, and read the defense to a degree, something Sanchez has been showing that he can't do.

[slats]

Tebow can at least move the chains. Something that Sanchez has yet to show he is capable of doing yet. Also, Tebow isn't a pick throwing machine like Sanchez is. Plus he also brings in a very good running component to our offense. Give Tebow a few years to get his passing down and he will blow Sanchez out of the water.

Also, Sanchez isn't that good of a passer either. And also, Sanchez has been in the league longer then Tim, who basically is a rookie in terms of starts, and isn't that much better at passing. At least Tebow can run, and read the defense to a degree, something Sanchez has been showing that he can't do.

Tebow led the league in 3 & outs once he took over the starting job in Denver, but don't let the facts get in your way.

[TheSage]

Probably should be in a separate thread but what has Tebow done to make anyone believe he an nfl qb? He is a football player, a physical speciman, a fine runner, occasionally throws a decent pass but a consistent passer?????? What are the odds of him consistantly throwng athree yard out for a first down (40%)? Probably higher if he runs it. Would love to see him an option HB role where he coud do some real damage but do you really want to see him drop back with an open receiver 20 yards downfield and HOPE he gets the ball near enough to the receiver to permt a catch or are you more confident Sanchez will get the ball to the receiver?

Is Sanchez perfect-no Are his third year numbers good-no but most top qbs had rough third yrs including the "elite" qbs

[Maxman]

I voted for the first one. But my true belief is that he is actually in between # 1 and # 2 on that list.

[Bugg]

I grade Mark statistically, and realistically.

Mark Sanchez games with 100+ rating in his first 3 seasons: 9 games

Phil Simms and Eli Manning games with 100+ rating first 3 seasons: 8 games each

Hall of Famer Troy Aikman: 7 games

Mark Sanchez in the Playoffs: 4-2 record. 3 out of 6 games with 100+ rating. Four road playoff wins. Beat Peyton manning and Tom lady back-to-back. Career Playoff QB Rating: 94+

Offensive Coordinator (Heavy on the "offensive"): Brian Schottenheimer

New Offensive Coordinator: Tony Sparano (Slightly less "offensive" than Brian)

Number of true "#1" receivers he's had in 3, going on 4, seasons: 0.5 (Santonio is a classic #2 receiver. Steve Smith would be a #1 at that size.)

If you are Peyton Manning or Tom Lady, you can make due with mediocre talent on the field. Of course, they had Tom Moore & Charlie Weis running the offense, and they are A LITTLE bit better than Schotty/Sparano. Just a taste....

How similar Mark is to Eli Manning is haunting, in their regular season performance and post season performances, at least through 3 seasons. Eli wasn't spectacular in his fourth season, the Super Bowl season. Far from it. But he played great in the Playoffs, as Mark has done, and the team got on a roll, like last year.

If you hate Mark at this point, then you had to hate Eli in 2007. MANY QBs, Eli Manning, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, were actually mediocre QBs most of their careers, but had great playoff runs.

Hopefully, Mark can continue of their path, and his own. Play ok during the season, but play great in the Playoffs.

I support Mark, officially. With Sparano and this WR core, he's only going to do so much as a passer. Weak WRs and a weak OC you can't overcome. One yes. Both, no......

BD

There are a lot of people holding to that Eli Manning comparison. But there's a big difference in demeanor and attitude. It may be small unmeasurable thing. But Manning form Day 1 got knocked around, and got up with the same exact business-like demeanor whether he threw 3 picks or ran a game-winning drive. Sanchez is a pouty little bitch when things go bad. And nobody spent their days bemoaning the Giants"OL, backs or WRs in his 4th year. Possibly because of his family Manning knew what he was getting into and never complained.

As to whether Tebow is any good, probably not in the sense of a classic drop back passer. But if the idea is Ground and Pound, perhaps you could eke out 8-10 wins and snag a playoff berth with him.

[Smashmouth]

The way this poll is set up is retarded Slats. You went from good QB with the first choice to Generally sucks ? Really ?

My opinion of Mark Sanchez is....

1. He's a very good QB or better who's been hamstrung by Schottenheimer and Tannenbaum's ineptitude
   Percentage of vote: 17.07%
   
   
2. He generally sucks, but I still haven't given up on him. He does start for the team I root for and stuff.
   Percentage of vote: 48.78%
   
   
3. Maybe he'll get it in his 30's like Gannon or Plunkett, but he'll never be a good QB on the Jets.
   Percentage of vote: 12.20%
   
   
4. He was born sucking and he'll suck until the day he dies.
   Percentage of vote: 21.95%
   

1. Hes a Great QB who has been limited by the inept Shott, Tannenbaum and a HC who basicly ignored the offense for 3 years.

2. Hes a good QB who needs to cut down on stupid mistakes can be Much better with more talent surrounding him

3. He is what he is an average QB who will always be average

4. He sucks now and will always suck I hate Mark Sanchez

I chose 1 In your poll and 2 in my suggested poll. I chose 1 in your poll because you gave me no choice claiming he sucks as your second choice and I dont think he sucks, sorry but 32 TD's does not equal suck. I think more of the 7 people who chose number 1 in your poll might have opted for number 2 in my poll because I cant see anyone claiming hes great. You mentioned you know 2 people who would have chose 1 in your poll yet you have 7 and for good reason.

[Smashmouth]

There are a lot of people holding to that Eli Manning comparison. But there's a big difference in demeanor and attitude. It may be small unmeasurable thing. But Manning form Day 1 got knocked around, and got up with the same exact business-like demeanor whether he threw 3 picks or ran a game-winning drive. Sanchez is a pouty little bitch when things go bad. And nobody spent their days bemoaning the Giants"OL, backs or WRs in his 4th year. Possibly because of his family Manning knew what he was getting into and never complained.

As to whether Tebow is any good, probably not in the sense of a classic drop back passer. But if the idea is Ground and Pound, perhaps you could eke out 8-10 wins and snag a playoff berth with him.

give me a break Eli Manning had that same pouting crybaby bullsh*t going on his first 3 years at times he looked totally shell shocked. Just ask the Giants fans who wanted to run his ass out of town. Stop making up bullsh*t Stories to back your arguement. If a player looks pissed or dejected after playing bad then thats their personality and you cant change that. All you can do is hope they start to play better. Some of these players are extremely competitive an when the game is in the toilet it takes a toll the great ones work harder and come out of it. Peyton Manning and even Dan Marino at times were cryin all over the ****ing field like little spolied brats does that make them better leaders ? if you want to judge the guy on his play and say he sucks thats fine dont start trying to understand whats going through his head because only Mark can deal with those issues not you.

[Smashmouth]

I grade Mark statistically, and realistically.

Mark Sanchez games with 100+ rating in his first 3 seasons: 9 games

Phil Simms and Eli Manning games with 100+ rating first 3 seasons: 8 games each

Hall of Famer Troy Aikman: 7 games

Mark Sanchez in the Playoffs: 4-2 record. 3 out of 6 games with 100+ rating. Four road playoff wins. Beat Peyton manning and Tom lady back-to-back. Career Playoff QB Rating: 94+

Offensive Coordinator (Heavy on the "offensive"): Brian Schottenheimer

New Offensive Coordinator: Tony Sparano (Slightly less "offensive" than Brian)

Number of true "#1" receivers he's had in 3, going on 4, seasons: 0.5 (Santonio is a classic #2 receiver. Steve Smith would be a #1 at that size.)

If you are Peyton Manning or Tom Lady, you can make due with mediocre talent on the field. Of course, they had Tom Moore & Charlie Weis running the offense, and they are A LITTLE bit better than Schotty/Sparano. Just a taste....

How similar Mark is to Eli Manning is haunting, in their regular season performance and post season performances, at least through 3 seasons. Eli wasn't spectacular in his fourth season, the Super Bowl season. Far from it. But he played great in the Playoffs, as Mark has done, and the team got on a roll, like last year.

If you hate Mark at this point, then you had to hate Eli in 2007. MANY QBs, Eli Manning, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, were actually mediocre QBs most of their careers, but had great playoff runs.

Hopefully, Mark can continue of their path, and his own. Play ok during the season, but play great in the Playoffs.

I support Mark, officially. With Sparano and this WR core, he's only going to do so much as a passer. Weak WRs and a weak OC you can't overcome. One yes. Both, no......

BD

Nice Post BD

[JustInFudge]

The immaturity is the sulking & pouting little girl routine on the sidelines. For me, anyway, that is immature. Very immature.

A grownup leader doesn't do that. Let alone in front of not just his team, and even worse in front of his team and TV cameras.

Wiping boogers on the back up who's twice your age?

[BlackDynamite]

Bugg

Yeah, nobody questioned Eli's leadership early in his career. Been watching football long?

artemusclyde

I'm not hearing anybody criticize Mark now. When you lose and miss the Playoffs, it's easy to take a swing at somebody, to keep the heat off you.

When the Jets were going to the Playoffs in 2009 & 2010, nobody said Mark was a slacker.

The most honest guys on the team, Tim Tebow and David Harris, have said Mark has an outstanding work ethic. That's all I need to hear on that.

If you want to hate Mark, fine. But it's because you want to. He's only matched what many other top QBs have done at this point in their careers. If you hate Mark, then you hated a young Terry Bradshaw, Ei Manning, and Troy Aikman. You can't change that.....

BD

[slats]

The way this poll is set up is retarded Slats. You went from good QB with the first choice to Generally sucks ? Really ?

My opinion of Mark Sanchez is....

1. He's a very good QB or better who's been hamstrung by Schottenheimer and Tannenbaum's ineptitude
   Percentage of vote: 17.07%
   
   
2. He generally sucks, but I still haven't given up on him. He does start for the team I root for and stuff.
   Percentage of vote: 48.78%
   
   
3. Maybe he'll get it in his 30's like Gannon or Plunkett, but he'll never be a good QB on the Jets.
   Percentage of vote: 12.20%
   
   
4. He was born sucking and he'll suck until the day he dies.
   Percentage of vote: 21.95%
   

1. Hes a Great QB who has been limited by the inept Shott, Tannenbaum and a HC who basicly ignored the offense for 3 years.

2. Hes a good QB who needs to cut down on stupid mistakes can be Much better with more talent surrounding him

3. He is what he is an average QB who will always be average

4. He sucks now and will always suck I hate Mark Sanchez

I chose 1 In your poll and 2 in my suggested poll. I chose 1 in your poll because you gave me no choice claiming he sucks as your second choice and I dont think he sucks, sorry but 32 TD's does not equal suck. I think more of the 7 people who chose number 1 in your poll might have opted for number 2 in my poll because I cant see anyone claiming hes great. You mentioned you know 2 people who would have chose 1 in your poll yet you have 7 and for good reason.

Next time, you make a poll. I'm happy with mine. If more people voting #1 want to explain their vote, all the better.

[Bugg]

Just want it on record-now that as per Sanchez enthusiasts Phil Simms, Eli Manning and Troy Aikman each played poorly, didn't like to get hit in their first 3 years of statistical suckitude and won the Super Bowl in thereafter year is grounds to expect Mark Sanchez to take off in year 4. The leap in logic here is astounding. But suspect you will find whole host of NFL QBs who sucked as bad in year 4 as they did in their first 3 sh*tty years. The Pro Sanchez argument here is that he will join the select arguably successful first group, which is really a statistical outlier and against the odds, rather than the later and way more common outcome of suckitude group. I don't see anyone arguing in this thread that he is Kyle Boller, Steve Beurlien or any other QB who's 4th year was what he was in the 1st 3 and continued to be throughout his career.I am certain without even going to profootballreference.com I could find 30-50 QBs in the last quarter century who continued to suck in year 4 and beyond. And because Eli Manning plays his home games in the same stadium and at the same time doesn't mean Mark Sanchez is more likely to take off in year 4.

But hey, if blowing out the candles on the early career struggles of successful QBs makes you feel better, good for you. You are wrong. Use your eyeballs; Sanchez sucks.

[Smashmouth]

Next time, you make a poll. I'm happy with mine. If more people voting #1 want to explain their vote, all the better.

generally you dont go from one extreme to the other wehn making a poll from slot 1 to slot 2 . Thats all Im saying bud. I dont think Sanchez is either one of those options so rather than say he sucks Im picking the first slot and thats not really answering anything.

If you want my simple stance on Sanchez its this : I think Mark has the talent to be a top 10 QB in this league as soon as he cuts down on the stupid mistakes, plays a bit more consistent, and the team surrounds him with the same talent other young QB's have been given in this league. Guys like Stafford, Daulton, Ryan, Newton ..... Just go ahead and compare the talent on those teams to the Jets we're not even in the same zipcode. Watch what the Skins and Colts do for Their 2 young QB's in the next 2 years. "This is an offensive league now" seems to be the general consensis on these forums and I say ok fine then where is our talent and why didnt we start signing young explosive talent to this roster as soon as we signed Mark rather than spending it on a top 5 defense ?

[slats]

generally you dont go from one extreme to the other wehn making a poll from slot 1 to slot 2 . Thats all Im saying bud. I dont think Sanchez is either one of those options so rather than say he sucks Im picking the first slot and thats not really answering anything.

I worded it the way I did purposely. In your proposed poll, I wouldn't have a place to cast a vote. I don't know if he's great, good, average, or poor. I think he's generally played poorly -evidenced by the stats- but that he's shown flashes. He might just suck, he might be great. I don't know.

Looking at the poll numbers right now, looks like half the forum agrees with me.

If you want my simple stance on Sanchez its this : I think Mark has the talent to be a top 10 QB in this league as soon as he cuts down on the stupid mistakes, plays a bit more consistent, and the team surrounds him with the same talent other young QB's have been given in this league. Guys like Stafford, Daulton, Ryan, Newton ..... Just go ahead and compare the talent on those teams to the Jets we're not even in the same zipcode. Watch what the Skins and Colts do for Their 2 young QB's in the next 2 years. "This is an offensive league now" seems to be the general consensis on these forums and I say ok fine then where is our talent and why didnt we start signing young explosive talent to this roster as soon as we signed Mark rather than spending it on a top 5 defense ?

Looks like choice #1 fits your opinion pretty well.

[Smashmouth]

I worded it the way I did purposely. In your proposed poll, I wouldn't have a place to cast a vote. I don't know if he's great, good, average, or poor. I think he's generally played poorly -evidenced by the stats- but that he's shown flashes. He might just suck, he might be great. I don't know.

Looking at the poll numbers right now, looks like half the forum agrees with me.

Looks like choice #1 fits your opinion pretty well.

I know you worded it purposely thats why I called you on it. You could easily adjust my thrid coice to fit your needs.

[stoicsentry]

give me a break Eli Manning had that same pouting crybaby bullsh*t going on his first 3 years at times he looked totally shell shocked. Just ask the Giants fans who wanted to run his ass out of town. Stop making up bullsh*t Stories to back your arguement. If a player looks pissed or dejected after playing bad then thats their personality and you cant change that. All you can do is hope they start to play better. Some of these players are extremely competitive an when the game is in the toilet it takes a toll the great ones work harder and come out of it. Peyton Manning and even Dan Marino at times were cryin all over the ****ing field like little spolied brats does that make them better leaders ? if you want to judge the guy on his play and say he sucks thats fine dont start trying to understand whats going through his head because only Mark can deal with those issues not you.

I agree with the general point that you are making.

People complained about Eli's body language just as they have complained about Sanchez' body language.

They had/do have different body language, though. With Eli, people said he didn't look upset enough, he looked like he didn't care enough. (I think the phrase was "aw, shucks!") Whereas with Sanchez, it looks like it gets to him too much, he's affected too much.

Either way, it doesn't matter. I'd rather see Sanchez' body language, to be honest, because it shows you it does bother him when he he fails, and he does get (seemingly) more pumped up when he succeeds, that's more fun to watch. But it doesn't matter because they both want to win. As long as the efforts and result are there, I don't care what their body language looks like.

[Smashmouth]

I agree with the general point that you are making.

People complained about Eli's body language just as they have complained about Sanchez' body language.

They had/do have different body language, though. With Eli, people said he didn't look upset enough, he looked like he didn't care enough. (I think the phrase was "aw, shucks!") Whereas with Sanchez, it looks like it gets to him too much, he's affected too much.

Either way, it doesn't matter. I'd rather see Sanchez' body language, to be honest, because it shows you it does bother him when he he fails, and he does get (seemingly) more pumped up when he succeeds, that's more fun to watch. But it doesn't matter because they both want to win. As long as the efforts and result are there, I don't care what their body language looks like.

exactly

[artemusclyde]

Tebow led the league in 3 & outs once he took over the starting job in Denver, but don't let the facts get in your way.

Basing this off of preseason games. Tebow's the only one on that team, did Mcelroy lead one?, that scored any points. Plus, he also didn't throw a pick six. And basically what we want in qb is a game manager anyway.

[Bugg]

I agree with the general point that you are making.

People complained about Eli's body language just as they have complained about Sanchez' body language.

They had/do have different body language, though. With Eli, people said he didn't look upset enough, he looked like he didn't care enough. (I think the phrase was "aw, shucks!") Whereas with Sanchez, it looks like it gets to him too much, he's affected too much.

Either way, it doesn't matter. I'd rather see Sanchez' body language, to be honest, because it shows you it does bother him when he he fails, and he does get (seemingly) more pumped up when he succeeds, that's more fun to watch. But it doesn't matter because they both want to win. As long as the efforts and result are there, I don't care what their body language looks like.

Again, when you bring up Eli, you point to one of the few QBs who struggled early and got over the difficulty to achieve success. And that scenario is the exception, not the rule. Because Eli Manning for Jets fans in the same market it's easy to latch onto that. But it means very little to Sanchez. They are different people in different situations.

And the whole "Sanchez only needs a a. running back, b. TE., c. decent wideouts and d. an OL" is something every team with a bad QB tries. Let's cover up the inadequacy of the most important player with better players around him. It worked in years 1and 2, it's not working any more as the talent level drops. And that concedes Sanchez does very little to improve things, nor does he make the players around him any better. He is himself a net negative .

[artemusclyde]

Again, when you bring up Eli, you point to one of the few QBs who struggled early and got over the difficulty to achieve success. And that scenario is the exception, not the rule. Because Eli Manning for Jets fans in the same market it's easy to latch onto that. But it means very little to Sanchez. They are different people in different situations.

And the whole "Sanchez only needs a a. running back, b. TE., c. decent wideouts and d. an OL" is something every team with a bad QB tries. Let's cover up the inadequacy of the most important player with better players around him. It worked in years 1and 2, it's not working any more as the talent level drops. And that concedes Sanchez does very little to improve things, nor does he make the players around him any better. He is himself a net negative .

Couldn't have said it any better.

[Smashmouth]

Couldn't have said it any better.

your a match made in heaven

[artemusclyde]

exactly

your a match made in heaven

Looks like we just found your match to.

[slats]

Basing this off of preseason games. Tebow's the only one on that team, did Mcelroy lead one?, that scored any points. Plus, he also didn't throw a pick six. And basically what we want in qb is a game manager anyway.

Based on preseason stats? Where Tebow trots out against the other team's twos with the same receivers Sanchez had against the ones? Against those twos, Tebow has managed a passer rating of 35.4. Sanchez sucks, but at least he's scraping mediocrity with a 60.9. Both QBs have thrown picks.

There's really no conclusion to draw from two preseason games.

In regular season action, Tebow was generally terrible, and then would bail himself out with a big throw. But he throws too many incompletions, takes too many sacks, and -as I said- led the league in 3 & outs. Not much of a game manager at all.

I get that you're enamoured with the myth of Tebow, but the reality is pretty stark.