How can Holmes be a considered a starting WR ?

[Matt39]

Sam Bradford (508 yds, 4 TD's, 1 INT) with nobodies. Plus Schottenheimer running the show.

Carson Palmer (670 yds, 2 TD's, 1 INT) with Darius Heyward-Bey and some nobodies.

Rookie RG3 (526 yds, 3 TD's, 1 INT) with "superstars" like Josh Morgan, Pierre Garcon and Fred Davis.

Rookie Andrew Luck (533 yds, 3 TD's, 3 INT's) with an aging Reggie Wayne and a bunch of nobodies.

Matt Cassel (559 yds, 3 TD's, 3 INT's) with Dwayne Bowe, a bunch of nobodies, and Jamaal Charles having an awful start to the season.

Youre really going to use Palmer and Cassel?

Good lord.

And as Slats said, Sanchez was fantastic against Buffalo. His performance against the Bills was better than anyone on that list maybe except for Bradford against the Skins.

[Jetsfan80]

Youre really going to use Palmer and Cassel?

Good lord.

The quintisential "average" QB's who are outproducing Sanchez this season. Yes.

And I notice you left out Bradford there. What gives? Shouldn't he be doing sh*tty with Schottenheimer and with Lance Kendricks as his best deep threat?

[RutgersJetFan]

Sanchez played great against the Bills, and not nearly as well against a Steeler defense that makes a lot of QBs look crappy. Plus, he took a nasty hit to the jaw that may -or may not- have contributed to his performance.

Sanchez' obituary may be written this season, but let's let the season play out first. He needs a bounce back performance against the fish this week.

Pretty much. Couldn't jump to conclusions for Week 1 and it's certainly not fair to conclude Year 3 will equal Year 4 given the circumstances of Week 2. He's thrown 1 INT in 2 games, this may be progress. MAY be.

[Jetsfan80]

Pretty much. Couldn't jump to conclusions for Week 1 and it's certainly not fair to conclude Year 3 will equal Year 4 given the circumstances of Week 2. He's thrown 1 INT in 2 games, this may be progress. MAY be.

Well until he proves otherwise Year 4 looks very much to be shaping up like Years 1-3. The burden of proof is on Sanchez.

He'll probably do great against Miami, which will lead to overreactions in his favor, followed by two dud performances against the Niners and Texans, which will yield "NO ONE DOES WELL AGAINST THEM" arguments galore. Fun times ahead!

[Matt39]

Matt Cassell....lol

[SMC]

Pretty much. Couldn't jump to conclusions for Week 1 and it's certainly not fair to conclude Year 3 will equal Year 4 given the circumstances of Week 2. He's thrown 1 INT in 2 games, this may be progress. MAY be.

Yeah, we have to see an extended sample size, because there still may be a stretch where he just gives the ball away. We'll have to see.

The season is the season and we'll have to judge it as a whole, rather than making these per-game proclamations.

[Matt39]

The quintisential "average" QB's who are outproducing Sanchez this season. Yes.

00o0o0o0 fancy stats

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

[SMC]

Well until he proves otherwise Year 4 looks very much to be shaping up like Years 1-3. The burden of proof is on Sanchez.

He'll probably do great against Miami, which will lead to overreactions in his favor, followed by two dud performances against the Niners and Texans, which will yield "NO ONE DOES WELL AGAINST THEM" arguments galore. Fun times ahead!

Don't tempt fate and try to be a T0mShane Prognosticator. Let's see how this plays out.

[RutgersJetFan]

Well until he proves otherwise Year 4 looks very much to be shaping up like Years 1-3. The burden of proof is on Sanchez.

Week 1 is a bad measure for obvious reasons and Week 2 is a bad measure for obvious reasons. The one constant between both games, however, was turnovers. And when it comes to missed sacks I think that game will probably the deviant case by the end of the season. Meaning Sanchez might not be able to win us a bunch of games, but he may finally not lose us a bunch either. There's just some cause for legit hope here is all I'm saying.

[Jetsfan80]

00o0o0o0 fancy stats

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

If you're gonna use that you don't get to laugh at Cassel. He's # 8 on the list.

[Matt39]

If you're gonna use that you don't get to laugh at Cassel. He's # 8 on the list.

They'e been playing from way behind both weeks.

[Jetsfan80]

They'e been playing from way behind both weeks.

We did in Week 2, yet no big numbers out of Sanchez.

[Matt39]

We did in Week 2, yet no big numbers out of Sanchez.

:facepalm:

[Smashmouth]

We did in Week 2, yet no big numbers out of Sanchez.

Sorry but the Jets were never way behind until the very end when Pitt laid a 10 minute Drive on our asses to all but end the game.

[RutgersJetFan]

Yeah, we have to see an extended sample size, because there still may be a stretch where he just gives the ball away. We'll have to see.

The season is the season and we'll have to judge it as a whole, rather than making these per-game proclamations.

Sample size is part of it, but I also think it's because you had a constant in cases where both games look like they'll be outliers on completely different ends of the spectrum. Sanchez had one of the best games of his life in Week 1 and played like a guy who wouldn't have lost a defensively dominated game in Week 2. The defense struggled with the run in Week 1 and Ben lubed himself up in Jergens in Week 2. That TO's remained minimal through extensively different performances may be telling. So the existence of a middle ground where the D regresses back to normal and Sanchez keeps the turnovers to a minimum may just finally be a possibility.

[Smashmouth]

Where are all the Peyton Manning ass kissers is what I want to know. Mr one man team/Makes everyone better . Amazing when you have all new receivers and a new offense that it might take some time to get going. Sanchez has had new WR's each of his first 4 years and bottom thrid of the league talent. JF80 you want to know why Holmes did well in Pittsburgh ? probably because he had a HOF WR on the opposite side of him same reason why the guys who replaced his worthless ass continued to do well. Not trying to take anything away from Big Rapist here but he is certainly surrounded with talent his thrid string RB and WR would start as number 1's on the Jets

[Jetsfan80]

Where are all the Peyton Manning ass kissers is what I want to know. Mr one man team/Makes everyone better . Amazing when you have all new receivers and a new offense that it might take some time to get going.

Also amazing how long it takes to shake off the rust from 4 neck surgeries. Not to mention, he looked just fine in Week 1 and for the 2nd half of Week 2.

Sanchez has had new WR's each of his first 4 years and bottom thrid of the league talent.

Not true. He's had 3 all-pro linemen, a former Super Bowl MVP at WR, a Hall of Fame RB who showed he still had a little left in the tank, Braylon (who everyone loved so much), fan favorite Cotchery, and a pretty good receiving TE in Keller. Not to mention a top-flight defense that does a great job getting him the ball back 3-and-out after 3-and-out and game after game.

Sanchez came into the league in a dream scenario, with the # 1 running game and # 1 defense. Maybe if we didn't have to relegate so much money to our "franchise QB", we'd have the cap space to bring in elite talent and REMAIN the # 1 running team and # 1 defense. Until then, its up to our "franchise QB" to get better despite his circumstances, because NO team that pays their QB big money can also have the money to afford elite players all over the place.

JF80 you want to know why Holmes did well in Pittsburgh ? probably because he had a HOF WR on the opposite side of him same reason why the guys who replaced his worthless ass continued to do well. Not trying to take anything away from Big Rapist here but he is certainly surrounded with talent his thrid string RB and WR would start as number 1's on the Jets

The Steelers are certainly capable at finding talent, but not even the Steelers would question that Holmes had talent as well; they simply got tired of the diva act (understandable out of a topflight organization). And are you really trying to say that Isaac Redman and Jonathan Dwyer are anything special at the RB position? No scout would agree with you on that. To say they'd start here doesn't say much either.

The fact remains that for the most successful organizations, RBBC is the best approach. It works in Green Bay, New Orleans, New England and Pittsburgh because they have solid QB's. It doesn't work in NY because we don't.

[Smashmouth]

Also amazing how long it takes to shake off the rust from 4 neck surgeries. Not to mention, he looked just fine in Week 1 and for the 2nd half of Week 2.

Peyton Manning is fine and cleared to play football he has an entire preseason under his belt so no bullsit excuses. Also his first game was all Thomas taking short passes to the house and a 3 yard TD to his TE. He has to get used to a new offense and new players just like every other QB does hes not a one man team. If Peyton Manning would have come to the Jets that would have probably been a disaster for him since our Number 1 WR wouldnt fight for a ball in the lingerie football league.

Not true. He's had 3 all-pro linemen, a former Super Bowl MVP at WR, a Hall of Fame RB who showed he still had a little left in the tank, Braylon (who everyone loved so much), fan favorite Cotchery, and a pretty good receiving TE in Keller. Not to mention a top-flight defense that does a great job getting him the ball back 3-and-out after 3-and-out and game after game.

Sanchez came into the league in a dream scenario, with the # 1 running game and # 1 defense. Maybe if we didn't have to relegate so much money to our "franchise QB", we'd have the cap space to bring in elite talent.

LOL so you expected Sanchez to win a SB his rookie season since we were such a great football team. Same team that most if not all picked to be terrible until weactully found a defense under Rex. We opened the season with Cotchery Stuckey and I dont even remember the thrid guy at WR and did nothing until game four where we traded for Braylon Edwards. Yeah Im guessing most QB's would have excelled in that garbage offense. Yet your telling me about Offensive lineman ?

The Steelers are certainly capable at finding talent, but not even the Steelers would question that Holmes had talent as well; they simply got tired of the diva act (understandable out of a topflight organization). And are you really trying to say that Isaac Redman and Jonathan Dwyer are anything special at the RB position? No scout would agree with you on that. To say they'd start here doesn't say much either.

The fact remains that for the most successful organizations, RBBC is the best approach. It works in Green Bay, New Orleans, New England and Pittsburgh because they have solid QB's. It doesn't work in NY because we don't.

RBBC in New orleans their 4th stringer starts for us. the Packers ignored the run all of last year cause they trow the ball on every down as does New England Pittsburgh runs more than they pass and they also have a thrid stringer who could start on the Jets RBBC my ass we have NO RUNNIGBACKS

[JustInFudge]

Well until he proves otherwise Year 4 looks very much to be shaping up like Years 1-3. The burden of proof is on Sanchez.

He'll probably do great against Miami, which will lead to overreactions in his favor, followed by two dud performances against the Niners and Texans, which will yield "NO ONE DOES WELL AGAINST THEM" arguments galore. Fun times ahead!

Disagree. I think he's actually giving us some hope. He's not turning the ball over at an alarming rate and the one turnover he did have, was simply trying to do to much. I mean, if he completes that little shovel pass the reaction would have been about how creative and young Favre-esque it was instead, of, what a bonehead he was for not just tucking it and running out of bounds.

Put it this way. We've seen one half of sh*tty Sanchez and that was so much better than last years sh*tty Sanchez, its not really even close.

[#27TheDominator]

Disagree. I think he's actually giving us some hope. He's not turning the ball over at an alarming rate and the one turnover he did have, was simply trying to do to much. I mean, if he completes that little shovel pass the reaction would have been about how creative and young Favre-esque it was instead, of, what a bonehead he was for not just tucking it and running out of bounds.

Put it this way. We've seen one half of sh*tty Sanchez and that was so much better than last years sh*tty Sanchez, its not really even close.

Seems odd to say that boneheaded turnovers are the antithesis of Favre, doesn't it?

[Jetsfan80]

Peyton Manning is fine and cleared to play football he has an entire preseason under his belt so no bullsit excuses. Also his first game was all Thomas taking short passes to the house and a 3 yard TD to his TE. He has to get used to a new offense and new players just like every other QB does hes not a one man team. If Peyton Manning would have come to the Jets that would have probably been a disaster for him since our Number 1 WR wouldnt fight for a ball in the lingerie football league.

Again, Manning has played fine for 3 of his 4 halves. Have you actually seen him play yet? And what receivers does he have? Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas and Jacob Tamme are about as mediocre options as you get. And mediocre weapons have never really hindered his career in the first place.

LOL so you expected Sanchez to win a SB his rookie season since we were such a great football team. Same team that most if not all picked to be terrible until weactully found a defense under Rex. We opened the season with Cotchery Stuckey and I dont even remember the thrid guy at WR and did nothing until game four where we traded for Braylon Edwards. Yeah Im guessing most QB's would have excelled in that garbage offense. Yet your telling me about Offensive lineman ?

I damn well would have liked to have gone better than 9-7, and maybe we would have gone to the Super Bowl had we passed on Sanchez and brought back Favre.

And at least we didn't STICK with Stuckey and Cotchery as our top options. We went out and got Braylon, a guy who, again, Jets fans fell in love with. We then went out and got Santonio, regarded as WR1 talent. What else are we supposed to do when we're consistently getting low-end 1st round picks? Trade our entire draft for a Julio Jones? What weapons SHOULD we be getting for Sanchez, can you tell me that? What would make you happy?

RBBC in New orleans their 4th stringer starts for us. the Packers ignored the run all of last year cause they trow the ball on every down as does New England Pittsburgh runs more than they pass and they also have a thrid stringer who could start on the Jets RBBC my ass we have NO RUNNIGBACKS

You did nothing to help your point. The Pats, Packers and Saints throw early and often BECAUSE THEY CAN. You just made my argument for me.

[Smashmouth]

Again, Manning has played fine for 3 of his 4 halves. Have you actually seen him play yet? And what receivers does he have? Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas and Jacob Tamme are about as mediocre options as you get. And mediocre weapons have never really hindered his career in the first place.

I damn well would have liked to have gone better than 9-7, and maybe we would have gone to the Super Bowl had we passed on Sanchez and brought back Favre.

And at least we didn't STICK with Stuckey and Cotchery as our top options. We went out and got Braylon, a guy who, again, Jets fans fell in love with. We then went out and got Santonio, regarded as WR1 talent. What else are we supposed to do when we're consistently getting low-end 1st round picks? Trade our entire draft for a Julio Jones? What weapons SHOULD we be getting for Sanchez, can you tell me that? What would make you happy?

You did nothing to help your point. The Pats, Packers and Saints throw early and often BECAUSE THEY CAN. You just made my argument for me.

Ive watched Manning and Thomas single handedly made 2 of his TD's for him but yeah the Broncos are a little lacking at the skill positions but according to all the QB gurus on this site Ive been arguing with for years its Manning and only Manning who made Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison HOF caliber WR's they were just jags that Manning made great. Manning throws bad WR's open, Manning makes offensive lineman protect better and RB's actully catch the ball too. This is the bullsh*t I have been listening too. The fact is Manning is going to have growing pains in Denver getting used to his WR's and a new offense. But he was going to come in here and win a SB LOL. FWIW Dymarius Thomas IS better than any Jet WR .

QB's and offenses play well when they have time together to do so. Manning will get his timing down and improve and I fully guarantee Denver will get him some serious weapons this comming offseason. Just Like I told you the 49ers would do it for Alex Smith (whos played fantastic) with Moss and Manningham .

The Jets Finally went and got a WR in the draft who has off the charts potential but that needed to be done much earlier. Since our defense was already a top 5 unit the focus of this team 3 years ago in Sanchez second year should have been to go out and surround Sanchez with young skill players through the draft. The move they made was trading a 5th rounder for a borderline idiot WR and DUMP Braylon who seemed to be the guy Sanchez was really developing with. This organization has failed once again in dealing with a young QB.

BTW I watched both of Mannings games he looked like the old Happy feet Manning . WHY ? because hes unsure of the offense just like any other QB would be. Sorry hes not the god of QB's like some here thought he was.

Oh and BTW Thomas and Decker are both better WR's than Santonio Holmes.

[Matt39]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv-M1CxlW30

Here's the cutup of the game if anyone wants to watch.

Holmes was brutal. Dropped a pass on a huge 3rd and 16. Another 2nd and 6 and you could just see him melting down after that. Hill could have caught the playaction pass. The Sanchez throw to Holmes is the endzone was bad, but not nearly as egregious as Mehta was trying to make it seem...he was covered.

D was great against the run till they wore out. Missed Revis bigtime. Cro had his head in his ass on the 3rd and forever bomb. Mcintyre was good. Low key end of the game besides the Kerley muff was Wilson getting beat by Brown on a 3rd and 33 for about 25 yards and the Jets lose precious field position which they didnt have all game.

[JustInFudge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv-M1CxlW30

Here's the cutup of the game if anyone wants to watch.

Holmes was brutal. Dropped a pass on a huge 3rd and 16. Another 2nd and 6 and you could just see him melting down after that. Hill could have caught the playaction pass. The Sanchez throw to Holmes is the endzone was bad, but not nearly as egregious as Mehta was trying to make it seem...he was covered.

D was great against the run till they wore out. Missed Revis bigtime. Cro had his head in his ass on the 3rd and forever bomb. Mcintyre was good. Low key end of the game besides the Kerley muff was Wilson getting beat by Brown on a 3rd and 33 for about 25 yards and the Jets lose precious field position which they didnt have all game.

Thanks for posting this...watched the first couple of serious. Powell >>>> Greene. They should commit fully to him, IMO.

And this didnt show the replay of that Holmes missed TD. He was wide open out of his break...like, wide open. It was a roll out and Sanchez rolled too far out and held the ball too long. If he throws that ball to Holmes out his break, it would have been just as easy as the first one.

[Jetsfan80]

And this didnt show the replay of that Holmes missed TD. He was wide open out of his break...like, wide open. It was a roll out and Sanchez rolled too far out and held the ball too long. If he throws that ball to Holmes out his break, it would have been just as easy as the first one.

Yep. If that happens we're talking about how Holmes had a great, 2-TD performance with a few miscues sandwiched in between. But alas, we don't have a Big Ben.

[Matt39]

Yep. If that happens we're talking about how Holmes had a great, 2-TD performance with a few miscues sandwiched in between. But alas, we don't have a Big Ben.

if Holmes has a two td performance he goes from 3-28-1 to 4-50-2...with about 5 drops. Jets still lose the game. Hardly a great performance.

[JustInFudge]

Yep. If that happens we're talking about how Holmes had a great, 2-TD performance with a few miscues sandwiched in between. But alas, we don't have a Big Ben.

Meh, the kids been pretty decisive so far, so I'm not going to kill him for that one miss. Especially since Hill should have come down with the other one. Interestingly enough, the 2 times he really wasnt decisive this year, were missed TD opportunities with Holmes. He was a little bit late on the one vs. Buffalo that Holmes didnt come down with both feet (still a very tough play) and this one was a real missed opportunity as he came as clean out of his break as you could ask.

Looking back, that might explain a couple of those drops by Holmes in the 2nd half. A couple of those balls were their almost too early...though he still should have caught them.

if Holmes has a two td performance he goes from 3-28-1 to 4-50-2...with about 5 drops. Jets still lose the game. Hardly a great performance.

Yeah, you never know. That could have been a HUGE confidence booster and momentum shifter. 2 TD's on 2 drives to Holmes in Pittsburgh - might have changed things a bit.

[Matt39]

Meh, the kids been pretty decisive so far, so I'm not going to kill him for that one miss. Especially since Hill should have come down with the other one. Interestingly enough, the 2 times he really wasnt decisive this year, were missed TD opportunities with Holmes. He was a little bit late on the one vs. Buffalo that Holmes didnt come down with both feet (still a very tough play) and this one was a real missed opportunity as he came as clean out of his break as you could ask.

Looking back, that might explain a couple of those drops by Holmes in the 2nd half. A couple of those balls were their almost too early...though he still should have caught them.

Yeah, you never know. That could have been a HUGE confidence booster and momentum shifter. 2 TD's on 2 drives to Holmes in Pittsburgh - might have changed things a bit.

the entire team left way too many plays on the field. Sanchez, Greene, Hill, Holmes, the missed sacks, cromartie....Jets just didnt execute. The problem is Holmes' drops have become common and Greene just stinks.

[Bleedin Green]

I see this thread morphed into one of JN's all-time favorite themes: the idea that no two people could possibly simultaneously suck at their respective jobs. Kind of funny considering what a common trend that is for the Jets (and really throughout football in general). Here's hoping they both get their sh*t together, because neither one came anywhere close to earning their paycheck on Sunday.

[Larz]

holmes has the physical ability, but as soon as things start to go sour, he tanks

he is my least favorite jet of the last 10 seasons

[T0mShane]

Holmes just said that the team feeds off of him because of his "status."

Wish I was kidding.

[JonEJet]

Holmes just said that the team feeds off of him because of his "status."

Wish I was kidding.

Why is that a problem?

I would think you want your WR as a "me 1st, diva" These WR's only want the ball. I'm glad Santonio is on our team.

[T0mShane]

Why is that a problem?

I would think you want your WR as a "me 1st, diva" These WR's only want the ball. I'm glad Santonio is on our team.

Could you perhaps explain to me what Holmes' "status" is and then contrast that with what Holmes apparently believes his "status" is?

[Matt39]

I tweak my Giants fan friends with the rear view mirror joke...but holy hell when does time expire on Holmes' tip toe catch.

[JetsFanInDenver]

holmes has the physical ability, but as soon as things start to go sour, he tanks

he is my least favorite jet of the last 10 seasons

Give the guy a break. Bruised vagina can be a painful condition.