Can Bilal Powell Be The # 1 RB?

[slats]

Considering Powell's best year isn't as good as Greene's worst year, having the discussion is not absurd. It's very much warranted, actually.

A similar case could be made against Chris Ivory.

[Bleedin Green]

Considering Powell's best year isn't as good as Greene's worst year, having the discussion is not absurd. It's very much warranted, actually.

 

That all depends on how you define the quality of a season.  Greene certainly got more carries, and thus more yards, but I think it's far to say that Powell was the better player of the two in the the opportunities he was given last season.  That's not necessarily saying much, and I could certainly see wanting more than that, but it's enough reason to not be particularly frightened by the Jets' loss of Greene.

[CrazyCarl40]

Considering Powell's best year isn't as good as Greene's worst year, having the discussion is not absurd. It's very much warranted, actually.

When was Powell's full year of starting?

[Larz]

Shonn Greene? The Jets will miss 3 yards and falling over? Please. Dude was nothing special and easily replaced.

 

 

you're right, he was nothing special.  that's how bad the jets backfield is right now.  greene would start on this team.   this offense will stuggle to score 13 points

[jbone]

When was Powell's full year of starting?

If Powell were better, perhaps the coaches would have decided to give him 270 carries instead of Greene.

[CrazyCarl40]

If Powell were better, perhaps the coaches would have decided to give him 270 carries instead of Greene.

Or Greene was the incumbent and they knew he was going to be a FA and were going to ride him until he died. Powell can provide whatever Shonn Greene did. Just wait and see.

Shonn Greene was so good he got signed to a huge lucrative deal to be the feature back on a great team. Right?

[JoeKlecko]

Bilal Powell is more than capable of filling the shoes of Shonn Greene.  The fact we're even discussing this is absurd.

 

I agree.  Shonn Greene is nothing special...he's not adept at breaking tackles, at making tacklers miss, doesn't have great visions, is not a good receiver, and for all his size, isn't even a very good blocker.  Powell is better imo.

[Greenseed4]

I agree.  Shonn Greene is nothing special...he's not adept at breaking tackles, at making tacklers miss, doesn't have great visions, is not a good receiver, and for all his size, isn't even a very good blocker.  Powell is better imo.

 

Shonn Greene was a battering ram.  That was his skill...running into people.  

[jbone]

Or Greene was the incumbent and they knew he was going to be a FA and were going to ride him until he died. Powell can provide whatever Shonn Greene did. Just wait and see.

Shonn Greene was so good he got signed to a huge lucrative deal to be the feature back on a great team. Right?

Or, closer to reality, they didn't think he could manage having significant carries and wasn't a better RB than Greene.

 

They like Powell so much they brought in a 3rd stringer from Oakland and a 4th stringer from NO and just signed Madu.

 

So, if I read that correctly, you're predicting a 1000+ yard year for Powell?

[jbone]

I agree.  Shonn Greene is nothing special...he's not adept at breaking tackles, at making tacklers miss, doesn't have great visions, is not a good receiver, and for all his size, isn't even a very good blocker.  Powell is better imo.

Maybe you'll have some stats to support that........one day.

[JoeKlecko]

Maybe you'll have some stats to support that........one day.

 

Stats mean little as they can be skewed.  Green got 10x the chances that Powell got.  Greene showed flashes in 2009 and 2010 and has coasted on that ever since.  My eyes tell me all I need to know.  Greene sucks.  I don't need no stinking stats.

[jbone]

Stats mean little as they can be skewed.  Green got 10x the chances that Powell got.  Greene showed flashes in 2009 and 2010 and has coasted on that ever since.  My eyes tell me all I need to know.  Greene sucks.  I don't need no stinking stats.

#Science

[Bleedin Green]

#Science

 

By your logic, all it will take is Powell getting more carries for him to transform into a quality RB.  I suppose you think Sanchez is a good QB too since he was handed the Jets starting job for 4 years?  The reality of the situation is that Greene was mediocre at best, and with less opportunities Powell ended up with a higher yards per carry, yards per catch and rate of TDs per touch.  He also didn't fumble the entire season (not that I thought fumbling was a major issue for Greene, but the point still stands).  I don't think anyone is saying that Powell is some magnificent player, but rather that there just really isn't much of any reason to believe that he can't handle living up to the very mediocre standards of his predecessor.

[CrazyCarl40]

Or, closer to reality, they didn't think he could manage having significant carries and wasn't a better RB than Greene.

 

They like Powell so much they brought in a 3rd stringer from Oakland and a 4th stringer from NO and just signed Madu.

 

So, if I read that correctly, you're predicting a 1000+ yard year for Powell?

 

It's a 16 game season. Almost every team needs multiple running backs for multiple duties.  They got Goodson to be a goo receiver out of the backfield and they got Ivory to have competition with Powell for the carries.  I have no idea who Madu is but I'm sure he's just training camp fodder because Goodson is in doo doo and Ivory hasn't even practiced yet and there is a game this weekend.

 

If the offensive line plays decently and Powell gets the same amount of carries Greene got, there is no reason he won't get 1,000 yards as a feature back.

[jbone]

By your logic, all it will take is Powell getting more carries for him to transform into a quality RB.  I suppose you think Sanchez is a good QB too since he was handed the Jets starting job for 4 years?  The reality of the situation is that Greene was mediocre at best, and with less opportunities Powell ended up with a higher yards per carry, yards per catch and rate of TDs per touch.  He also didn't fumble the entire season (not that I thought fumbling was a major issue for Greene, but the point still stands).  I don't think anyone is saying that Powell is some magnificent player, but rather that there just really isn't much of any reason to believe that he can't handle living up to the very mediocre standards of his predecessor.

That's not my logic at work. That's yours. My logic is closer to: if Powell were better than Greene or even equal to Greene, he would have gotten more carries than Greene,or a least a lot more carries than the coaches were willing to give him. He was in direct competition for the starting job with Greene his entire career and couldn't beat him out.

 

Your second point regarding Sanchez doesn't belong in the discussion, as it's not related in any way. Logic doesn't work like that. When the facts of the situation change, the conclusions change. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

My main point is, people are trying to see something in Powell he just hasn't shown yet. There's no proof Powell would have had the same yards per carry, yards per catch or rate of TD p catch, or whatever metric you want to use to cherry pick the data if the jets gave him the ball over 500x the past two seasons.You guys are discounting proven results which Greene provided,as lackluster as it seemed, to a guy who has 15% the touches Greene has in his career. Powell has done absolutely nothing in this league yet.

 

Let me just add, I'm in not a huge Shonn Greene fan either.

[jbone]

It's a 16 game season. Almost every team needs multiple running backs for multiple duties.  They got Goodson to be a goo receiver out of the backfield and they got Ivory to have competition with Powell for the carries.  I have no idea who Madu is but I'm sure he's just training camp fodder because Goodson is in doo doo and Ivory hasn't even practiced yet and there is a game this weekend.

 

If the offensive line plays decently and Powell gets the same amount of carries Greene got, there is no reason he won't get 1,000 yards as a feature back.

They got Ivory to replace Greene, not compete with Powell. 

 

Powell will never get that many carries.That's the point.

[Larz]

Or Greene was the incumbent and they knew he was going to be a FA and were going to ride him until he died. Powell can provide whatever Shonn Greene did. Just wait and see.

Shonn Greene was so good he got signed to a huge lucrative deal to be the feature back on a great team. Right?

 

 

that's the point.  A back up would start here

 

this isn't the first training camp where some back has a few 15 yard rushes in august and then in september get 3 yards a pop

 

I'd love powell to be awesome, but lets be realistic.

[Greenseed4]

The general premise is okay, but even a RBBC needs a #1.  I'm pretty sure that Powell is as big as Tiki Barber and some of the other lead backs in RBBC sets.  

 

I had to look it up...so I went to Wiki. Had myself a little chuckle. 

 

 

 

 

Originally considered a third-down, "change of pace" back, Barber became a standout starting running back and the all-time leader in rushing yards in New York Giants history. 

  

Tiki was 5'10, 205; same as Powell.  So it can be done.  But Powell is more plod than scat, and for some reason I doubt that Powell will take the league by storm.  

[Bleedin Green]

That's not my logic at work. That's yours. My logic is closer to: if Powell were better than Greene or even equal to Greene, he would have gotten more carries than Greene,or a least a lot more carries than the coaches were willing to give him. He was in direct competition for the starting job with Greene his entire career and couldn't beat him out.

 

Your second point regarding Sanchez doesn't belong in the discussion, as it's not related in any way. Logic doesn't work like that. When the facts of the situation change, the conclusions change. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

My main point is, people are trying to see something in Powell he just hasn't shown yet. There's no proof Powell would have had the same yards per carry, yards per catch or rate of TD p catch, or whatever metric you want to use to cherry pick the data if the jets gave him the ball over 500x the past two seasons.You guys are discounting proven results which Greene provided,as lackluster as it seemed, to a guy who has 15% the touches Greene has in his career. Powell has done absolutely nothing in this league yet.

 

Let me just add, I'm in not a huge Shonn Greene fan either.

 

To recap, your single solitary basis for in any way evaluating the ability of a RB is their number of carries.  And this is your sole reason for claiming that Powell supposedly couldn't possibly match Greene's mediocre production from last season, despite having greater success than Greene when he actually got the ball.  Do you deny any of this?  You are talking about some very flawed logic here, which is only made worse by your attempts to use career carries as some sort of measurement of ability when the players in question haven't been in the league anywhere near the same amount of time.

 

I guess you think Arian Foster had a better season than Adrian Peterson last year too, huh?  Of course you'll deny this and make another claim about how that's not the point you're making, but the truth is that this is exactly what your absurd position would be stating if applied anywhere else throughout the league.  Just admit it, you don't like Powell as a player, probably based entirely on his non-existent rookie year, and are desperately grasping at whatever straws you can to support that position.  You don't have to like the guy, that's certainly your prerogative, but you really can't expect anyone else to concede to your extremely flawed logic, simply because you say so.

[slats]

Tony Sporano preferred Shonn Greene, therefore Greene is better than Powell. Simple.

[jbone]

To recap, your single solitary basis for in any way evaluating the ability of a RB is their number of carries.  And this is your sole reason for claiming that Powell supposedly couldn't possibly match Greene's mediocre production from last season, despite having greater success than Greene when he actually got the ball.  Do you deny any of this?  You are talking about some very flawed logic here, which is only made worse by your attempts to use career carries as some sort of measurement of ability when the players in question haven't been in the league anywhere near the same amount of time.

 

I guess you think Arian Foster had a better season than Adrian Peterson last year too, huh?  Of course you'll deny this and make another claim about how that's not the point you're making, but the truth is that this is exactly what your absurd position would be stating if applied anywhere else throughout the league.  Just admit it, you don't like Powell as a player, probably based entirely on his non-existent rookie year, and are desperately grasping at whatever straws you can to support that position.  You don't have to like the guy, that's certainly your prerogative, but you really can't expect anyone else to concede to your extremely flawed logic, simply because you say so.

You are cherry picking data. Usually the sign of a very weak argument. My single soliatry basis of Greene getting more carries, thus more yards and production, is a function of the direct head-to-head competition between the two which Greene won every single time. Once again you are taking liberties and comparing apples to oranges and showing your glaring misunderstanding of how to stay on point in a debate. What does Adrian Peterson and Arian Foster have to do with this? Reductio ad absurdum comes to mind every time I read a response you write.  

 

Peterson and Foster did something Powell has never been able to do: win the starting job. For you to equate this discussion with either of them is absurd.

 

P.S. - Greene has a higher yards per carry in his career than Powell. On a lot more carries. But, ya know, Powell is better because....well he just is, I guess.

 

Last year, Powell average a TENTH of a yard more than Greene per carry. Lol Definitive indeed.

[roscoeword]

J Bone -  Powell couldn't win the starting job from Green simply because Green was supposed to be our featured back after showing great potential backing Thomas Jones (especially in playoffs), and it was Green's job to lose. Over the next two years, Green didn't play bad enough to lose it, and Powell didn't play good enough to win it, nor did he get much of an opportunity to win it. That's just how things evolved.

[Bleedin Green]

You are cherry picking data. Usually the sign of a very weak argument. My single soliatry basis of Greene getting more carries, thus more yards and production, is a function of the direct head-to-head competition between the two which Greene won every single time. Once again you are taking liberties and comparing apples to oranges and showing your glaring misunderstanding of how to stay on point in a debate. What does Adrian Peterson and Arian Foster have to do with this? Reductio ad absurdum comes to mind every time I read a response you write.  

 

Peterson and Foster did something Powell has never been able to do: win the starting job. For you to equate this discussion with either of them is absurd.

 

P.S. - Greene has a higher yards per carry in his career than Powell. On a lot more carries. But, ya know, Powell is better because....well he just is, I guess.

 

Last year, Powell average a TENTH of a yard more than Greene per carry. Lol Definitive indeed.

 

I'm cherry picking data?  Your entire argument is based on carries!

 

To be clear, at no point did I actually compare Powell to any of those players at all, so that's a blatant lie.  Rather, I simply used them as independent examples to point out how a simple look around the league proves there is no merit to your position.  I mean absolutely none whatsoever.  Even if Powell turns out to be the worst RB in the history of the Jets, your entire concept will still be without any legitimate basis.

 

You clearly don't like Powell for whatever reason, which is just fine and dandy, but you've clearly come to that decision first, and then grasped at whatever straws you could after the fact in a desperate attempt to proclaim that no one can dare disagree with the almighty jbone and his ingenious carries theory.  I'm sorry that it hurts you so deeply that Powell outperformed Greene in every measurement but sheer volume, but that still doesn't magically make carries the most important (and apparently only, in your mind) factor to evaluating a RB just because you want it to be.

 

You do realize that, by your so-called "logic", no player in the history of the NFL would ever be capable of coming close to playing to the level of a player they have ever served as a backup to at any point in time.  I mean hell, the Jets might as well cut Demario Davis right now, because he's apparently 100% guaranteed to spend his entire career playing worse than Scott did during his 2012 season.  The funny thing is I'm not even trying to sell Powell as a particularly impressive player, far from it, but I just happen to believe it's not so far-fetched that he could perform at least at the level of a mediocre player he looked better than while they were on the same team last year.  And it would be one thing if we simply disagreed on that premise and that was it, but it's kind of difficult to leave it at that when I see what is seriously in contention for one of the very worst arguments made on this board, made only worse by the smug arrogance with which you tout this laughable position.

[jbone]

I'm cherry picking data?  Your entire argument is based on carries!

 

To be clear, at no point did I actually compare Powell to any of those players at all, so that's a blatant lie.  Rather, I simply used them as independent examples to point out how a simple look around the league proves there is no merit to your position.  I mean absolutely none whatsoever.  Even if Powell turns out to be the worst RB in the history of the Jets, your entire concept will still be without any legitimate basis.

 

You clearly don't like Powell for whatever reason, which is just fine and dandy, but you've clearly come to that decision first, and then grasped at whatever straws you could after the fact in a desperate attempt to proclaim that no one can dare disagree with the almighty jbone and his ingenious carries theory.  I'm sorry that it hurts you so deeply that Powell outperformed Greene in every measurement but sheer volume, but that still doesn't magically make carries the most important (and apparently only, in your mind) factor to evaluating a RB just because you want it to be.

 

You do realize that, by your so-called "logic", no player in the history of the NFL would ever be capable of coming close to playing to the level of a player they have ever served as a backup to at any point in time.  I mean hell, the Jets might as well cut Demario Davis right now, because he's apparently 100% guaranteed to spend his entire career playing worse than Scott did during his 2012 season.  The funny thing is I'm not even trying to sell Powell as a particularly impressive player, far from it, but I just happen to believe it's not so far-fetched that he could perform at least at the level of a mediocre player he looked better than while they were on the same team last year.  And it would be one thing if we simply disagreed on that premise and that was it, but it's kind of difficult to leave it at that when I see what is seriously in contention for one of the very worst arguments made on this board, made only worse by the smug arrogance with which you tout this laughable position.

Yup, you sure are. I didn't read the rest of your post cause its not worth it. You are basing it off carries,  while I'm basing it off a lot more, with the end result being more carries. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand, but if you want to continue thinking Powell is better, that's your prerogative. I'm done trying to convince you there is no basis in reality for that opinion. at this point in time.

 

You are in dire need of a refresher course in logic.