Richardson vs. Revis

[Integrity28]

Drafting Richardson was the only really good move IDzik made all offseason. 

 

Correction, it's the only move we are seeing immediate returns on. To imply the rest of his draft, and all free-agency moves, were failures is presumptuous considering it's only a day after the first game of the season.

 

Millner, Ivory and Geno all had nagging injuries in the pre-season, there's more to see before deeming them "not good moves".

 

Not sure why anyone would be expected to understand this though, LOL

[bitonti]

Getting the 15th pick in the draft in the first place in exchange for Revis was a really good move. Everyone and their mother knew the Jets weren't paying Revis -who was still rehabbing his knee- and he got the first round pick out of Tampa with no one else even bidding. That was really good.

 

I can agree with that... it's all part of drafting Sheldon Richardson tho. It's not really a separate transaction. 

 

Correction, it's the only move we are seeing immediate returns on. To imply the rest of his draft, and all free-agency moves, were failures is presumptuous considering it's only a day after the first game of the season. 

 

I didn't say that... if you believe I implied that you are mistaken.  but there is something to be said for instant-good. Richardson is instant-good which is how most pro bowlers and all pros start their careers. 

[bitonti]

No one is asking who the better player is. The value is the key but let's be real, if I were to poll 32 GMs and ask them who they would rather have - the best corner in the NFL but he's 28 and coming off an ACL or a 22-year-old stud DT with a motor who plays like he wants to kill someone. I would bet you'd be surprised by the number of GMs who would take the 22-year-old DT. 

 

another way to put it is 28 year old 4x All Pro vs 22 year old rookie. Revis' man was targeted 4x yesterday and caught 1. They weren't even looking at Santonio after Q1. We've all seen what he can do to a team's offense. 

 

Richardson is the choice only if you put value into the equation. in this league great CBs are more valuable than great DTs. The free agency market bears that fact out year after year.  

 

the good news is that the Jets won't play Revis again, unless it's in some unlikely super bowl scenario. 

[Smashmouth]

Revis was Revis yesterday. He was a blanket and he took away HOlmes. on our offense that's no big deal but if we had him taking away Vincent Jackson that would have been huge. Im not taking away anything from Sheldon, who had a great debut and was a great pick. But Revis is an all time great. Just cause he isn't a Jet anymore doesn't mean he sucks.

 

Exactly right Revis wont be a big deal vs subpar offenses like the Jets but when he goes against elite offenses and completely shuts down their best WR then yeah hes a pretty damn big deal.

 

FWIW you really can't make this comparison at this stage anyhow. BUT if Revis was a Jet yesterday Vincent Jackson gets shut down, not that that means anything  since we won the game anyway.

[Klecko73isGod]

Exactly right Revis wont be a big deal vs subpar offenses like the Jets but when he goes against elite offenses and completely shuts down their best WR then yeah hes a pretty damn big deal.

 

FWIW you really can't make this comparison at this stage anyhow. BUT if Revis was a Jet yesterday Vincent Jackson gets shut down, not that that means anything  since we won the game anyway.

 

Yeah, because he never let Randy Moss catch anyth...... 

[Integrity28]

I can agree with that... it's all part of drafting Sheldon Richardson tho. It's not really a separate transaction. 

 

 

I didn't say that... if you believe I implied that you are mistaken.  but there is something to be said for instant-good. Richardson is instant-good which is how most pro bowlers and all pros start their careers. 

 

You said "only", you did imply it. This is why you spend so much time here arguing, you don't understand the implications of your own statements.

 

Either way, doesn't matter. Richardson is awesome, yay!

[Smashmouth]

Yeah, because he never let Randy Moss catch anyth...... 

 

so your comeback is one game where Moss caught a bomb on Revis when the guy was playing with a tweaked Hammy. Do we really have to name all the WR's Revis has shut down disrupting entire offenses in the process ? And shutting down entire sides of the field ? Remember the back to back wins vs NE and Indy in the playoffs ? shutting down both Manning and Brady Think that happens with out Revis ?

[Klecko73isGod]

so your comeback is one game where Moss caught a bomb on Revis when the guy was playing with a tweaked Hammy. Do we really have to name all the WR's Revis has shut down disrupting entire offenses in the process ? And shutting down entire sides of the field ? Remember the back to back wins vs NE and Indy in the playoffs ? shutting down both Manning and Brady Think that happens with out Revis ?

 

Yes and that's all well and nice. But he's one guy who can only cover one guy. Face a team with more than one good wideout and then what?

[Bleedin Green]

i said about 5x in this thread alone that I really like Richardson. He had a great game. Drafting Richardson was the only really good move IDzik made all offseason. 

 

Barnes, Winslow and Geno all say "hi".

[Bleedin Green]

i didn't say the only good move. I said the only "really good" move. THese other guys might be good or ok but Richardson looks to be a possible Pro Bowl player.  He's legit.

 

Colon had a penalty. Winslow is good for now. let's see how long they last. Landry had a great iNT but also some bad missed tackles (and no speed to catch anyone, Demario Davis is faster than all the safeties). Geno Smith had an ok game (INT, strip sack, took a 18 yard sack to take the team out of FG range etc.) Richardson is the only move Idzik made that is really good. 

 

as for the bucs maybe you don't get the situation they had to spend to get to the floor. They had to pay someone. Might as well be the best CB since Deion. 

 

So to be clear here:

 

One good game from Revis against an injured player = Revis is unquestionably back and as good as ever.

 

One good game from anyone on the Jets = it's only one game, and not absolutely everything they did was perfect, so it doesn't really mean anything.

 

Gotcha.

[Bleedin Green]

Exactly right Revis wont be a big deal vs subpar offenses like the Jets but when he goes against elite offenses and completely shuts down their best WR then yeah hes a pretty damn big deal.

 

FWIW you really can't make this comparison at this stage anyhow. BUT if Revis was a Jet yesterday Vincent Jackson gets shut down, not that that means anything  since we won the game anyway.

 

Meh, maybe.  It seems a bit counter-intuitive to say Revis wasn't as important yesterday because of the Jets lack of WRs, and yet then try to use his performance in that game as proof of him being as good as ever.  Not saying he can't be, but I'll take more of a wait and see approach to see how he holds up against a more significant challenge before assuming he'll shut everyone he faces down.  There is serious talent he's going to be up against in that division, and as good as he may be, I'm not going to bet on him leading the Bucs D to shut down passing offenses like NO or ATL.

 

This isn't 2009 anymore, WRs do make occasional plays against Revis.  Just ask Stevie Johnson.

[dbatesman]

there is something to be said for instant-good. Richardson is instant-good which is how most pro bowlers and all pros start their careers. 

 

gotta be patient with gholston you guys

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes and that's all well and nice. But he's one guy who can only cover one guy. Face a team with more than one good wideout and then what?

 

The Pierre Garcon & Austin Collie get hundreds of receiving yards in the championship game.

[Klecko73isGod]

The Pierre Garcon & Austin Collie get hundreds of receiving yards in the championship game.

 

Thank you. 

 

I personally value a good DT over a good corner every day of the week. A great DT can make an average corner look good. 

[bitonti]

Barnes, Winslow and Geno all say "hi".

 

the Richardson pick was way better than any of those moves. It was the best move he made all offseason. 

[Sperm Edwards]

 

 

I didn't say that... if you believe I implied that you are mistaken.  but there is something to be said for instant-good. Richardson is instant-good which is how most pro bowlers and all pros start their careers. 

 

Huh?

[Klecko73isGod]

the Richardson pick was way better than any of those moves. It was the best move he made all offseason. 

 

S you agree with the premise of the thread.

[bitonti]

gotta be patient with gholston you guys

 

It's great that you guys remember things I said 6 years ago. I can't even remember what I had for breakfast.

[bitonti]

S you agree with the premise of the thread.

 

I agree that Richardson is a better value than Revis. I don't agree that he's a better player than Revis. or that any NFL GM would take Richardson over Revis.

[bitonti]

personally value a good DT over a good corner every day of the week. A great DT can make an average corner look good. 

 

We aren't comparing a good DT to a good CB. we are comparing a good possibly great DT to an all time great CB.

[Klecko73isGod]

I agree that Richardson is a better value than Revis. I don't agree that he's a better player than Revis. or that any NFL GM would take Richardson over Revis.

 

No one said that. 

[Klecko73isGod]

We aren't comparing a good DT to a good CB. we are comparing a good possibly great DT to an all time great CB.

 

So after one game you know that Richardson won't be an all-time great?

[bitonti]

So after one game you know that Richardson won't be an all-time great?

 

no one knows either way. We know about Revis. BG is in denial he's the same REvis as he always was. I understand why his salary doesn't fit with this team at this point. 

 

Here's a question what would the game look like if Vincent Jackson had 1 catch like Santonio? Or if the BUcs stopped throwing to him? 

[Sperm Edwards]

Revis at $16M/year, every year

 

or

 

Richardson + $13.5M/year in cap room

 

 

Only Tampa Bay would make that move (now that Al Davis is dead) and it was only with 1 year of guarantees so they could reach the minimum required to spend for 2013.

 

Long-term, no one would make that move.

[Bleedin Green]

the Richardson pick was way better than any of those moves. It was the best move he made all offseason. 

 

I won't argue that with you, although it's kind of funny considering it was probably the move he got the most flack for from the general public at the time it was made.  Lots of talk about how, if the Jets were going to take a DT (which many said they shouldn't have), it should have been one of the bigger names that were still on the board.

 

That said, there's a difference between the best move and "the only really good move", as you put it.  Sure there's still plenty more work to be done, but the three names I mentioned were all major contributors to the week 1 victory, so I'm certainly happy with them.  If those four guys (Richardson included) keep it up, it could be huge for the Jets this season.

[bitonti]

 That said, there's a difference between the best move and "the only really good move", as you put it.  Sure there's still plenty more work to be done, but the three names I mentioned were all major contributors to the week 1 victory, so I'm certainly happy with them.  If those four guys (Richardson included) keep it up, it could be huge for the Jets this season.

 

I don't want to nitpick the Jets after a win, let's just say Richardson's day was great, he's a really tough player and leave it at that. I enjoyed watching him dominate inside.  These other situations, including Geno was less cut and dried.

[ZachEY]

i didn't say the only good move. I said the only "really good" move. THese other guys might be good or ok but Richardson looks to be a possible Pro Bowl player.  He's legit.

 

Colon had a penalty. Winslow is good for now. let's see how long they last. Landry had a great iNT but also some bad missed tackles (and no speed to catch anyone, Demario Davis is faster than all the safeties). Geno Smith had an ok game (INT, strip sack, took a 18 yard sack to take the team out of FG range etc.) Richardson is the only move Idzik made that is really good. 

 

as for the bucs maybe you don't get the situation they had to spend to get to the floor. They had to pay someone. Might as well be the best CB since Deion. 

 

So, he picked up ONLY one future pro bowler in a rebuilding year when they were up against the salary cap?  For Shame Idzik, For Shame.

[Klecko73isGod]

no one knows either way. We know about Revis. BG is in denial he's the same REvis as he always was. I understand why his salary doesn't fit with this team at this point. 

 

Here's a question what would the game look like if Vincent Jackson had 1 catch like Santonio? Or if the BUcs stopped throwing to him? 

 

We probably eek out a 15-14 win without the last second heroics by Geno/stupidity from Lavonte David. 

[bitonti]

We probably eek out a 15-14 win without the last second heroics by Geno/stupidity from Lavonte David. 

It's all hypothetical but VJ had 154 of 210 yards that Freeman threw for. Put him on Revis Island, it's a huge difference. 

[Bleedin Green]

no one knows either way. We know about Revis. BG is in denial he's the same REvis as he always was. I understand why his salary doesn't fit with this team at this point. 

 

Here's a question what would the game look like if Vincent Jackson had 1 catch like Santonio? Or if the BUcs stopped throwing to him? 

 

I guess it depends on your perspective, but I've been pretty clear in the past of my belief that Revis hasn't been the player some like to tout him as for 4 years now.  He's still great, don't get me wrong, but not worlds better than the next best CB like he was during that 2009 season.  As far as this season goes, we'll see how he holds up with much greater challenges against the likes of ATL and NO.  I'm sure he'll still play extremely well, but I'm not convinced he can completely shut down the likes of Julio Jones, especially the more they play each other.  It's no coincidence that the WRs who saw the most success in recent years were the ones who most often faced off against him, in Welker and Johnson.

 

We'll see, as I could very easily be wrong about that.  That said, I still think your premise is flawed.  Jackson is a significantly better WR than Holmes to begin with, and was also not nearly a year removed from his last NFL action, so there's no real basis for automatically applying Holmes' statline to Jackson if Revis were on the Jets.  I could make a similar argument that with Revis instead of Richardson, the Bucs have substantially more success rushing and Martin tears up the Jets, but there's no real way to know that.

[Jetsfan80]

Bit, for a long time you were saying you just don't trade Revis because you'll never get close to equal value.

 

Now we appear to have a future pro bowler at DT and you're arguing "Well Revis is still better".

 

Of course Revis is better.  No one is arguing against that.  But your ORIGINAL argument back in March that you just don't trade Revis, PERIOD because nothing good can come of it is now flat wrong.  Much like most of your arguments are flat wrong. 

 

Best thing you can do is just admit that John Idzik is your daddy and move on, because you've been getting schooled by him at EVERY turn lately.

[Klecko73isGod]

It's all hypothetical but VJ had 154 of 210 yards that Freeman threw for. Put him on Revis Island, it's a huge difference. 

 

So Mike Williams has a big day instead. You really think we hold the Bucs to 56 yards passing if Revis is on our side? Seriously? When did we ever shut anyone down like that.

 

Not for nothing but Geno Smith threw for 250 in his NFL debut against a Revis-led secondary. 

 

I'll take Richardson. 

[Matt39]

So Mike Williams has a big day instead. You really think we hold the Bucs to 56 yards passing if Revis is on our side? Seriously? When did we ever shut anyone down like that.

 

Not for nothing but Geno Smith threw for 250 in his NFL debut against a Revis-led secondary. 

 

I'll take Richardson. 

 

If Revis is on the Jets yesterday with Richardson we probably shut the Bucs out.

[cr726]

So Mike Williams has a big day instead. You really think we hold the Bucs to 56 yards passing if Revis is on our side? Seriously? When did we ever shut anyone down like that.

 

Not for nothing but Geno Smith threw for 250 in his NFL debut against a Revis-led secondary. 

 

I'll take Richardson.

I understand why the Bucs traded for Revis, they had the #1 rush D with the worst passing D.

[bitonti]

Bit, for a long time you were saying you just don't trade Revis because you'll never get close to equal value.

 

Now we appear to have a future pro bowler at DT and you're arguing "Well Revis is still better".

 

Of course Revis is better.  No one is arguing against that.  But your ORIGINAL argument back in March that you just don't trade Revis, PERIOD because nothing good can come of it is now flat wrong.  Much like most of your arguments are flat wrong. 

 

Best thing you can do is just admit that John Idzik is your daddy and move on, because you've been getting schooled by him at EVERY turn lately.

 

possible Pro Bowl DT is not equal value to a 4x All Pro CB.  

 

 John Idzik has made 1 really good move, 5 decent moves and 25 terrible moves. We shall see. I have more faith in Rex than in Idzik.