I like Geno

[DRJETS]

there's another guy who used to be good at those... his name escapes me right now 

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00

 

 

What are you talking about tonti? I can only see ONE COMEBACK FROM Mark Sanchez in his rookie year.  Geno has four so far as A ROOKIE and that is a record by rookie since the merger in 1970.  You mad because of it?    

[dbatesman]

We just spent some time talking about where the Jets OL were ranked vs other OL in the league. it was a fair give and take and we basically both agree they are middle tier. I have them at B or B+ you have them at C or C+ but it's the same neighborhood. they are not the best they are not the worst. 

 

 What is Geno ranked vs other QB's in the league? What is his letter grade? and not what we want it to be 5 years from now. 

 

I didn't say anything about grades. I said he's not the problem with the offense. If you want numbers, he's 12th in YPA and 23rd in completion percentage. There's also the matter of context, as much as you'd like to act otherwise, which means you can't hand-wave what Geno might be in five years. If you want a ranking, I wouldn't trade him for Freeman/Ponder/Cassel, Campbell/Weeden, Glennon, Manuel, Henne, Palmer, Schaub, or Locker. That would put him around 24th, which sounds about right to me.

[dbatesman]

I mis-spoke SF has 3 current All-Pros on their OL. Pro Bowlers is not giving them justice. For numbers they are 6-2 and rolling right now. They are head and shoulders above the next best team in terms of OL talent, wall to wall.

it's not fantasy football rankings, the oL rankings should be based on the job the OL does and the talent on that line not based on how many points are scored or how successful the offense should be

?

 

It's my opinion they've been the best line in the league for a couple of years.

I'm doing my best to keep opinion (or W-L record, or number of All-Pros, or ZOMGBRICK&MANGOLDs, or degree to which a team is "rolling") out of this. That's my point.

[Jetsfan80]

?

 

I'm doing my best to keep opinion (or W-L record, or number of All-Pros, or ZOMGBRICK&MANGOLDs, or degree to which a team is "rolling") out of this. That's my point.

 

Don't even bother.  Bit won the argument.  He's a genius.  Go hump your calculator, nerd.

[sirlancemehlot]

So wait. Sanchez was horrible and sucked terribly last year with Clyde Gates as his #1 for several games. But when Geno gets the same results it's because of the lack of WRs? How about this...the TEs and receivers have sucked hard for the last two years and no QB is going to be successful with them. OR both our QBs are awful and we can't be successful with them. You can't have it both ways. Giving geno a pass due to a lack of weapons means you have to give Sanchez a pass as well. Or they both suck. Which is it?

[dbatesman]

Giving geno a pass due to a lack of weapons

 

Link?

[Jetsfan80]

So wait. Sanchez was horrible and sucked terribly last year with Clyde Gates as his #1 for several games. But when Geno gets the same results it's because of the lack of WRs? How about this...the TEs and receivers have sucked hard for the last two years and no QB is going to be successful with them. OR both our QBs are awful and we can't be successful with them. You can't have it both ways. Giving geno a pass due to a lack of weapons means you have to give Sanchez a pass as well. Or they both suck. Which is it?

 

Sanchez is awful.  Geno is a significant improvement.

 

Also, Sanchez sucked when he had Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery, Keller, and LT.  Don't you dare argue he's never had weapons.

[bitonti]

I'm doing my best to keep opinion (or W-L record, or number of All-Pros, or ZOMGBRICK&MANGOLDs, or degree to which a team is "rolling") out of this. That's my point.

 

agree 74 not quite as dominant as he once was but he's still better than most NFL players. He's a difference maker even if he's 80% of what he was 3 years ago. or whatever it is. They can't really win games without him. He's dinged up alot and it's not unthinkable that it's taking a toll.  Ps- darrelle Revis on one leg is worth more than cro and dee combined. 

 

Don't even bother.  Bit won the argument.  He's a genius.  Go hump your calculator, nerd.

 

I don't want to win the argument. if I lose it, geno is awesome and the Jets are great. Wouldn't that be nice. 

[Matt39]

Sanchez is awful. Geno is a significant improvement.

Also, Sanchez sucked when he had Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery, Keller, and LT. Don't you dare argue he's never had weapons.

That's a mediocre group at best. Do you watch other teams play offense?

[Jetsfan80]

That's a mediocre group at best. Do you watch other teams play offense?

 

"Mediocre" is 10 times better than what we have currently.  

[Matt39]

"Mediocre" is 10 times better than what we have currently.

Both sucked. We had a better line back then. The Jets offense has sucked forever because they rarely draft offense early and when they do the players stink.

[DRJETS]

OL grades must be taken into context with other OL. if you look at other teams around the league the Jets OL is way above average, even with the adventures at left guard. Eli would love to have the Jets OL. Matt Ran, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, these guys would have much better protection if the Jets were in front.

 

 if you never look at any other teams, then the Jets OL isn't as good as it was when Faneca was here therefore they stink. 10th is a fair grade when you put it into context. If you disagree, tell me why and back it up. Who is better, who is worse? 

 

 

I will trade our OL WR TE RB for Strafford OL, Reggie Bush, C. Johnson, Kris Durham, Pettigrew, in fact I will throw a few drafts including a first to the Lions.  FAIR, tonti? 

[DRJETS]

So wait. Sanchez was horrible and sucked terribly last year with Clyde Gates as his #1 for several games. But when Geno gets the same results it's because of the lack of WRs? How about this...the TEs and receivers have sucked hard for the last two years and no QB is going to be successful with them. OR both our QBs are awful and we can't be successful with them. You can't have it both ways. Giving geno a pass due to a lack of weapons means you have to give Sanchez a pass as well. Or they both suck. Which is it?

 

Sanchez was in his four year while Geno is playing better than him as a rookie.  Sanchez never had a 60% completion and Geno is on his way there as a rookie. 

[bitonti]

I will trade our OL WR TE RB for Strafford OL, Reggie Bush, C. Johnson, Kris Durham, Pettigrew, in fact I will throw a few drafts including a first to the Lions.  FAIR, tonti? 

 

Calvin Johnson is the only HOF player in that deal i don't know about fair but whatever side he is on is the better end of that deal. 

[jetsjetsjetss]

is it bad when we have to defend our starting QB for his poor play?

 

hopefully this doesnt become a trend

 

(i wonder if after the pats loss to cincy pats fans wrote threads about how they liked brady)

[GimmeShelter]

last Sunday was Geno Smith's worst game of the season.  I don't think it's crazy to ask if he's really learning/improving, or if he's really the best man for the job. You guys point all these arguments back at me, like Im the one throwing interceptions. His play speaks for itself. 

 

Yes it is crazy.  He has shown enough talent and promise to be given the rest of the season to hang himself.  Once a rookie QB shows he can make all the throws and handle the spot light you don't make judgements from game to game on whether he is starting material or not. 

 

He did not win the job in your conventional manner but he has clearly shown enough to be given the next 8 games as well as to compete next camp with any QB we might draft.

 

You are debating just for the sake of being different IMO.

[GimmeShelter]

From a marketing standpoint, now would be an excellent time to post that Groupon link for the draft daddy premium membership.

[Jetsfan80]

is it bad when we have to defend our starting QB for his poor play?

 

At least he's been playing well every other game, unlike our last QB who was just plain bad every game.  He's a rookie.  These things happen.

[sh4dy15]

Yes it is crazy.  He has shown enough talent and promise to be given the rest of the season to hang himself.  Once a rookie QB shows he can make all the throws and handle the spot light you don't make judgements from game to game on whether he is starting material or not. 

 

He did not win the job in your conventional manner but he has clearly shown enough to be given the next 8 games as well as to compete next camp with any QB we might draft.

 

You are debating just for the sake of being different IMO.

 

+1

 

Clearly this is what he is doing. I guess we are feeding into it tho but whatever. Luckily bit is not the gm of this team and Idzik is definitely going to give Geno the rest of the year and most likely next year as well.

[Sperm Edwards]

QB YEAR 1:

9 TD

18 INT

52.9% COMP

159 YPG

 

QB YEAR 2:

11 TD

18 INT

56.6% COMP

171.9 YPG

 

Highly drafted WR target looks like a bust who couldn't do anything except hope for busted coverage on go routes for the first 3 years.

 

YEAR 1: 32 REC, 654 YDS, 5 TD

YEAR 2: 26 REC, 378 YDS, 2 TD

YEAR 3: 20 REC, 413 YDS, 5 TD

 

Clearly Dallas should have cut ties with both Aikman and Irvin.

 

It's an extreme example, of course.  If I'm Idzik, I'm not giving Smith that long (there was no FA so expiring contracts & cap management weren't such problems back then).  My mindset would be that can be terrible for his whole rookie season for all I care and still end up being a good QB (or better).  But if he doesn't show BIG improvement in ball safety in the last 1/3 of the season, he's not getting handed the job in year 2. And if a really good QB prospect is there at our pick (or "gettable" without burning through our first couple of picks & more), I'm still drafting another.  Also bringing in a veteran who might be able to game-manage for the better part of a year without getting hurt (unfortunately Shaun Hill is the only one I see who's scheduled to hit free agency in 2014).

Same thing with Hill.  Jets need to get in a reliable pass-catcher or two.  If Hill wins a starting job he has to win it, and not because the competition in camp was Clyde Gates and a crippled Braylon Edwards.

[bitonti]

everyone writes off Matt Simms cause he's UDFA and gives Geno benefit of the doubt cause he's a 2nd round pick. the cowboys had a 2nd round pick named Quincy Carter who was eventually replaced by a UDFA named Tony Romo.

 

It has happened before. 

[CTM]

It's actually terrible (<3 you bit) but for some reason people keep taking the bait. 

 

 

Bit >>>> Jif..

 

The man is immpressive

[JiFtheOracle]

everyone writes off Matt Simms cause he's UDFA and gives Geno benefit of the doubt cause he's a 2nd round pick. the cowboys had a 2nd round pick named Quincy Carter who was eventually replaced by a UDFA named Tony Romo.

 

It has happened before. 

 

Meh, Tony's much more handsome. 

[DRJETS]

Calvin Johnson is the only HOF player in that deal i don't know about fair but whatever side he is on is the better end of that deal. 

 

Didn't were you saying that if Strafford had the Jets OL, he will be unstoppable.  I simply told you then, that I will trade the Lions offense to the one on the Jets. NOT FAIR?  You were implying that because the Jets OL is average Geno should be able to light it up against everybody with the garbage he has on offense.

[DRJETS]

_{I bet bitonti already twitted rich, to curse him for putting geno instead of Simms for the offense mvp thru 8 games.}  

 

 

 

_{Midseason Report: Give 'em a B}

 

_{October, 29, 2013}

_{Oct 29}

_3:50

_{PM ET}

_{By Rich Cimini | ESPN.com}

 

 

_{Offensive MVP: QB Geno Smith. Not much competition here. Yeah, I know, he cost them a couple of games with turnovers, but he also won games with his deep-throwing ability (Buffalo Bills), poise in the clutch (Atlanta Falcons) and mobility (New England Patriots).}

 

[BroadwayJoe12]

everyone writes off Matt Simms cause he's UDFA and gives Geno benefit of the doubt cause he's a 2nd round pick. the cowboys had a 2nd round pick named Quincy Carter who was eventually replaced by a UDFA named Tony Romo.

 

It has happened before. 

 

Everyone wants to write of Geno because he's a 2nd round pick and give Matt Simms the benefit of the doubt because UDFAs like Tony Romo and Kurt Warner had success. But then they forget that Drew Brees and Brett Favre were second rounds picks, had HOF careers and were so good that sh*tty, god-awful, shouldn't-even-be-on-a-NFL-field UDFA QBs didn't ever get to become relevant, guys like: Pat Devlin, Scott Wolzien, Adam Webber, John Parker Wilson, Drew Willy, Hunter Cantwell, Billy Farris, Rudy Carpenter, Nathan Brown,  Patrick Cowan, Sean Glennon, Chris Pizzotti,  Kevin McCabe, Kirby Freeman, Alex Mortensen and Chase Daniel. 

 

 

/Reverse Bit'd

[bitonti]

Everyone wants to write of Geno because he's a 2nd round pick  

 

 

/Reverse Bit'd

 

 

yeah that and the pick 6s

[BroadwayJoe12]

yeah that and the pick 6s

 

True. But Simms' seasonal completion percentage is 43% with only 17 yards passing and 35 yards rushing. Sorry Bit, but I don't want a Quarterback who rushes for more than he throws and can't even complete 50% of his passes. How many games do you think you're gonna win when your quarterback only accounts for 52 yards of total offense?? Yea, not many my friend, not many.

[bitonti]

True. But Simms' seasonal completion percentage is 43% with only 17 yards passing and 35 yards rushing. Sorry Bit, but I don't want a Quarterback who rushes for more than he throws and can't even complete 50% of his passes. How many games do you think you're gonna win when your quarterback only accounts for 52 yards of total offense?? Yea, not many my friend, not many.

 

Matt Simms had 0 turnovers that's what impressed me the most. I'd love Geno if he didn't make such awful Vinny-esque mistakes. And it's multiple times a game, almost every game. he's had 1 clean game all year. the great win against NE he threw a pick 6. Im not going to nitpick the stats all that matters to me is game management. 

[dbatesman]

Matt Simms had 0 turnovers that's what impressed me the most.

How could you choose just one thing?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Matt Simms had 0 turnovers that's what impressed me the most. I'd love Geno if he didn't make such awful Vinny-esque mistakes. And it's multiple times a game, almost every game. he's had 1 clean game all year. the great win against NE he threw a pick 6. Im not going to nitpick the stats all that matters to me is game management. 

 

Yea, but averaging only 52 yards a game. Can't win with that. 

[bitonti]

Yea, but averaging only 52 yards a game. Can't win with that. 

 

no. i guess ya can't.

[sirlancemehlot]

Sanchez is awful.  Geno is a significant improvement.

 

Also, Sanchez sucked when he had Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery, Keller, and LT.  Don't you dare argue he's never had weapons.

How much more successful was Sanchez with the guys you just mentioned?  AFCCG successful.  Victories over Brady and Manning and Rothlisberger (last game of reg season) successful.  Point is, you can't grade a QB who's basically castrated when it comes to a supporting cast.  Even Brady is having a crap season, due mainly to the fact that Welker and Co. are no longer with the Pats.  Someone has to get open.  Someone has to catch.  Someone has to block.  Geno Sucks.  Maybe he doesn't suck if he has a halfway decent supporting cast.  Sanchez's supporting cast last year was probably even worse than Geno, plus he had Sporano.  We've needed offensive help forever.  So we've drafted Steven Hill and Vlad Ducasse.  Not getting it done that way.  The issue is building half a team over the past four years had been  a catastophe we could all see coming.  Let's hope Idzik ignores Rex on draft day and builds a solid, balanced team for a change.

[Jetsfan80]

How much more successful was Sanchez with the guys you just mentioned?  AFCCG successful.  Victories over Brady and Manning and Rothlisberger (last game of reg season) successful.  Point is, you can't grade a QB who's basically castrated when it comes to a supporting cast.  Even Brady is having a crap season, due mainly to the fact that Welker and Co. are no longer with the Pats.  Someone has to get open.  Someone has to catch.  Someone has to block.  Geno Sucks.  Maybe he doesn't suck if he has a halfway decent supporting cast.  Sanchez's supporting cast last year was probably even worse than Geno, plus he had Sporano.  We've needed offensive help forever.  So we've drafted Steven Hill and Vlad Ducasse.  Not getting it done that way.  The issue is building half a team over the past four years had been  a catastophe we could all see coming.  Let's hope Idzik ignores Rex on draft day and builds a solid, balanced team for a change.

 

How was Sanchez's supporting cast his first 3 years?  Was Geno blessed with the # 1 running game and # 1 defense in the NFL?  You absolutely CAN grade players while ignoring their supporting cast.  Sanchez never passed the eye test and rarely performed well regardless of the talent around him.  He was dragged to those 2 AFC Title games, and was one of the bottom 5 players on the team....and bottom 5 QB's in the league, both years.

 

Geno does much better with the eye test.  He's big, he can use his feet, he has poise, he doesn't let mistakes get to him, he can throw downfield, and pretty much all of his flaws are correctable.  He's not making poor reads, he's making some poor throws.  But he also has made some really good throws too.  The game doesn't seem to move too quickly for him like it did for Sanchez.  In at least 3 of our 4 victories, he was one of the top players on the field.  You could never really say that about Sanchez.  Geno's numbers aren't pretty but if you're going to say Sanchez gets a pass because of his supporting cast, you should be able to give Geno a bit of a pass through the first 8 games of his career without simply throwing up your hands and say "well, there we go, he sucks too".  This seems like a guy we can build around.  Though I would fully support drafting a QB at some point in the 2014 draft just in case he's not.

 

Geno doesn't suck currently and could be good.  Sanchez sucked and will never be good.  That's the difference.

[#27TheDominator]

I like Geno and I am fairly happy with his progress.  I have heard it thrown around that he doesn't let mistakes get to him and that he is not making poor reads, but poor throws.  I'm not buying that.  The first Pats game he was pressing beyond belief and got suckered 3 times in a quarter.  If he kneeled down the first time we would have tied the game.  Last week was the same.  He looked overmatched and unable to do anything.  As for the poor throws, he keeps getting picked on these outs.  Some might be on the WR, but it is the read and not the throw.  He'd make that same throw in warmups and you'd be saying how nice he drove the ball.  His pocket awareness is also suspect, but I think it is improving.  A guy like Geno probably could backpedal away from pressure in college, but these guys are just too fast for that.  He seems to keep his eyes downfield and hopefully will get a better understanding of how fast the D is actually coming.  I'm a little confused about how he totally missed that DB running straight off the edge and into his face Sunday. That wasn't blind side pressure.