Rex Ryan: "We have the best draft class in the NFL!"

[NJ]

Just talking Jets dude ... but that in itself is an all stooge lineup.

[faba]

Maybe Rex meant to say we have the best dance class in the NFL- all is forgiven

[Matt39]

Good drafting turns a franchise around. Even with Luck the Colts hve zero chance of winning a Super Bowl this year. They gave away a pick for a terrible player in Richardson....the Colts aren't a good example. The Jets with a couple of decent receivers are on the same level as Indy.

[#27TheDominator]

 

 Also, was basing it on that ridculous, like 5 years 35 million, Buffalo gave him and then cut him the next year to be replaced by the mighty JP LOSMAN. Wow.

Pretty sure your facts are way off. Johnson was on the Bills for a few years.  He was competing with Flutie for the starting job and actually had the team ahead of Titans in the playoffs when the Music City Miracle happened.  I don't think Losman was drafted for years after Johnson was gone.  Maybe you were thinking of Alex Van Pelt? 

[joewillie78]

 

Just talking Jets dude ... but that in itself is an all star lineup.

 Oh, Jets biggest busts:

1.Mark Sanchez

2.Blair Thomas

3.Johnny "lam" Jones

4.Vernon Gholston

5.Johnny Mitchell

6.Dwayne Robertson

7.Anthony Becht

8.Kyle Wilson

[joewillie78]

 

Pretty sure your facts are way off. Johnson was on the Bills for a few years.  He was competing with Flutie for the starting job and actually had the team ahead of Titans in the playoffs when the Music City Miracle happened.  I don't think Losman was drafted for years after Johnson was gone.  Maybe you were thinking of Alex Van Pelt?

Could be BUT he certainly never lived up to that ridiculous contract, right? 

[#27TheDominator]

 

Could be BUT he certainly never lived up to that ridiculous contract, right? 

 

5 for 25.  The trade was probably worse. Johnson had a great arm at some point, but he couldn't move and took sacks like crazy.  I think he had some serious arm problems at some point in his career.  I remember seeing him go berserk in some preseason game and he was nice to watch when he was on. 

[joewillie78]

 

Good drafting turns a franchise around. Even with Luck the Colts hve zero chance of winning a Super Bowl this year. They gave away a pick for a terrible player in Richardson....the Colts aren't a good example. The Jets with a couple of decent receivers are on the same level as Indy.

Until the Jets get a FRANCHISE QB, their is no way I can even mention them in the same breath as the Colts. Sorry, but you have to have that guy to build around, and a Franchise QB is that guy.

Rex first tried to convince us that it was a CB (Revis), and now a DE (Wilkerson).

Hopefully, the next coach realizes that you absolutely have to have a Franchise guy to build around or you will be mired in mediocrity for a long time.

[#27TheDominator]

 

Until the Jets get a FRANCHISE QB, their is no way I can even mention them in the same breath as the Colts. Sorry, but you have to have that guy to build around, and a Franchise QB is that guy.

Rex first tried to convince us that it was a CB (Revis), and now a DE (Wilkerson).

Hopefully, the next coach realizes that you absolutely have to have a Franchise guy to build around or you will be mired in mediocrity for a long time.

 

 

The Jets had a sh*tty QB and a good team that couldn't win a super bowl. What's the difference?  In fact, I think as presently constructed the Colts would have a tough time with the Jets. 

[Matt39]

 

Until the Jets get a FRANCHISE QB, their is no way I can even mention them in the same breath as the Colts. Sorry, but you have to have that guy to build around, and a Franchise QB is that guy.

Rex first tried to convince us that it was a CB (Revis), and now a DE (Wilkerson).

Hopefully, the next coach realizes that you absolutely have to have a Franchise guy to build around or you will be mired in mediocrity for a long time.

 

You were never going to know if you have a franchise QB with this group of personnel on offense. I think everyone is aware you need to have a good quarterback. What separates the Seahawks from other teams is player 2-52.

[#27TheDominator]

You were never going to know if you have a franchise QB with this group of personnel on offense. I think everyone is aware you need to have a good quarterback. What separates the Seahawks from other teams is player 2-52.

 

What other teams does it separate them from? The other teams with decent QBs?  Because 2-52 is not what separates them from teams like the Browns. Maybe from the Chargers or Lions. 

[Matt39]

What other teams does it separate them from? The other teams with decent QBs?  Because 2-52 is not what separates them from teams like the Browns. Maybe from the Chargers or Lions. 

 

Sorry- I meant from teams that have good QB's.

[joewillie78]

 

The Jets had a sh*tty QB and a good team that couldn't win a super bowl. What's the difference?  In fact, I think as presently constructed the Colts would have a tough time with the Jets.

 You dont think they could score more than 10 points with Luck at QB, because that is basically all you need presently to beat the Jets? Come on, be serious.

[Matt39]

 

 You dont think they could score more than 10 points with Luck at QB, because that is basically all you need presently to beat the Jets? Come on, be serious.

 

The Jets beat the crap out of the Colts last season....and last years Colts team was better than this one(since the Wayne injury).

[joewillie78]

 

You were never going to know if you have a franchise QB with this group of personnel on offense. I think everyone is aware you need to have a good quarterback. What separates the Seahawks from other teams is player 2-52.

 And this of course is the million dollar question. Does a GREAT QB turn receivers we have never heard of into Hall of Famers, or do great wide receivers make a great QB? Those who want to keep REX will tell you that the QB's are fine, but the surrounding cast is awful, and those that want to get rid of REX will tell you that if he could get a REAL QB, these receivers would be pro-bowlers.

I lean toward the latter when I think of the receivers that Manning, Brady have made household names like Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Wes Welker, Julien Edelman, and the dude that just caught 4 touchdowns from Peyton this weekend.

It is my belief that Brady, Rodgers, Manning etc, would make pro-bowlers out of Kerley, Holmes, and put guys like Cumberland, Hill on the map. Hence I want REX gone as I see no way he can get or develop a Franchise QB.

[joewillie78]

 

The Jets beat the crap out of the Colts last season....and last years Colts team was better than this one(since the Wayne injury).

 Yes, and this years team beat New Orleans and New England. All just the NFL being "on any given day", I want CONSISTENCY, and with this cast, especially with this head coach, this offense, and this QB, forget about consistency on this team.

If you are happy beating New England, or Denver etc. on any given sunday, but still having a 6-10 record, then welcome to the NY JETS under Rex Ryan.

[Matt39]

 

 And this of course is the million dollar question. Does a GREAT QB turn receivers we have never heard of into Hall of Famers, or do great wide receivers make a great QB? Those who want to keep REX will tell you that the QB's are fine, but the surrounding cast is awful, and those that want to get rid of REX will tell you that if he could get a REAL QB, these receivers would be pro-bowlers.

I lean toward the latter when I think of the receivers that Manning, Brady have made household names like Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Wes Welker, Julien Edelman, and the dude that just caught 4 touchdowns from Peyton this weekend.

It is my belief that Brady, Rodgers, Manning etc, would make pro-bowlers out of Kerley, Holmes, and put guys like Cumberland, Hill on the map. Hence I want REX gone as I see no way he can get or develop a Franchise QB.

 

Great WR's are great WR's independently from QB play. Brady's numbers skyrocketed once they added Welker and Moss. Brady struggled with Gronk injured this season- Gronk's scored a TD in 9 of his last 11 games, which is insane. Matt Cassell put up Brady type numbers(pre Moss) they year he played and he's a terrible QB.

 

Best case scenario is pairing a great QB with great WR's, obviously. You saw what happened with the Pats in 2007. ANd you saw what happened when Peyton was throwing to Blair White in 2010.

[joewillie78]

 

Great WR's are great WR's independently from QB play. Brady's numbers skyrocketed once they added Welker and Moss. Brady struggled with Gronk injured this season- Gronk's scored a TD in 9 of his last 11 games, which is insane. Matt Cassell put up Brady type numbers(pre Moss) they year he played and he's a terrible QB.

 

Best case scenario is pairing a great QB with great WR's, obviously. You saw what happened with the Pats in 2007. ANd you saw what happened when Peyton was throwing to Blair White in 2010.

 Do you think the dude (I cant even think of his name right now) that just caught 4 TDS from Peyton this weekendwas a GREAT receiver, or did Peyton make him a great receievr because, well, because he is Peyton Manning?

[Matt39]

 

 Do you think the dude (I cant even think of his name right now) that just caught 4 TDS from Peyton this weekendwas a GREAT receiver, or did Peyton make him a great receievr because, well, because he is Peyton Manning?

 

Eric Decker is a really good receiver and will be treated as such on the open market this offseason. Great? No, probably not...but he's not putting up elite WR numbers anyways.

[joewillie78]

 

Eric Decker is a really good receiver and will be treated as such on the open market this offseason. Great? No, probably not...but he's not putting up elite WR numbers anyways.

 Thank you, Eric Decker. Again, some of those names I mentioned above, seriously, I had NEVER heard of until Manning and Brady were slinging them the ball. Decker was average/maybe good, but now Peyton is sending him to Hawaii in February.

Sorry, give me a Franchise guy, and I will find a few healthy bodies (like the Jets have), for them to throw to, and then all of sudden, the NFL world will know these guys names.

[Matt39]

 

 Thank you, Eric Decker. Again, some of those names I mentioned above, seriously, I had NEVER heard of until Manning and Brady were slinging them the ball. Decker was average/maybe good, but now Peyton is sending him to Hawaii in February.

Sorry, give me a Franchise guy, and I will find a few healthy bodies (like the Jets have), for them to throw to, and then all of sudden, the NFL world will know these guys names.

 

There have been plenty of no name receivers that have played with Brady and Peyton that remained no-names during their tenure there and after. I dont know of many guys who played with Peyton, produced, and then fell flat on their face for their next team. Pierre Garcon is a good WR.

 

Look at Luck's struggles since Wayne got hurt. Receivers are a crucial part of the passing game. 

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

Oh noez, Mel Kiper doesn't think there's a franchise QB in there and he's infallible! 

 

 

You know where Kiper ranked Wilson? Behind Weeden, Osweiler and Cousins. So maybe you should just pump the breaks a bit on declaring there are no franchise QBs, just because Kiper and the other know-nothing talking heads said so.  Or, you could try having your own thoughts, instead of just spewing everything that they type and passing it along as fact. This is the biggest problem with these message boards, we have people who judge and rate players based on what these draftniks say, without every seeing a single snap that they actually play. 

 

Wilson was skipped over by the entire NFL for over 4 rounds. It wasn't just Kiper.

 

Franchise QBs are very rarely evident coming out of college. For every Peyton, there are many more Ryan Leafs or Jamarcus Russels.

 

Not to defend Geno, he has been terrible, but Marino, Elway, or even Manning couldn't do anything with these receivers. There is never any separation, and every one of them can be taken out of the game by the lowliest cornerback.

 

Until we get some playmakers, no QB will be successful here. 

[#27TheDominator]

I think the whole "Rex won't develop QBs" mantra that Shane started and is being repeated ad nauseum goes a bit far.  Sure Rex may not have emphasized offense, but they are on their third "system" and the first I have any respect for.  If Idzik trust/likes Mornhinweg I don't see the problem.  He knows he gave them sh*t to put on the field.  If Idzik wants his own people I am fine with that too. 

[joewillie78]

 

There have been plenty of no name receivers that have played with Brady and Peyton that remained no-names during their tenure there and after. I dont know of many guys who played with Peyton, produced, and then fell flat on their face for their next team. Pierre Garcon is a good WR.

 

Look at Luck's struggles since Wayne got hurt. Receivers are a crucial part of the passing game.

 Yes, Luck is not the same without Wayne, but being the great QB that he is, is still finding ways to get that team W's.

People have said, that since Kerley went down, that GENO is struggling now. Sheesh, you mean when an average to above average SLOT reciever goes down, that your QB now has to put up single digit QBR's. WOW. Thats really too bad for us Jet Fans.

[T0mShane]

You were never going to know if you have a franchise QB with this group of personnel on offense. I think everyone is aware you need to have a good quarterback. What separates the Seahawks from other teams is player 2-52.

This is true.

[Matt39]

 

 Yes, Luck is not the same without Wayne, but being the great QB that he is, is still finding ways to get that team W's.

People have said, that since Kerley went down, that GENO is struggling now. Sheesh, you mean when an average to above average SLOT reciever goes down, that your QB now has to put up single digit QBR's. WOW. Thats really too bad for us Jet Fans.

 

Geno's a rookie. I dont know what people expect. Give Geno a Reggie Wayne and things would be way different. No rookie QB was coming in and putting up numbers with a marginal running game, a weak oline and non NFL caliber WR's.

[joewillie78]

 

I think the whole "Rex won't develop QBs" mantra that Shane started and is being repeated ad nauseum goes a bit far.  Sure Rex may not have emphasized offense, but they are on their third "system" and the first I have any respect for.  If Idzik trust/likes Mornhinweg I don't see the problem.  He knows he gave them sh*t to put on the field.  If Idzik wants his own people I am fine with that too.

 I think your argument supports the "other side". Rex has tried 3 different systems, basically all failing so that begs the question: Can any OFFENSIVE system be successful under this coach?

[Matt39]

I think the whole "Rex won't develop QBs" mantra that Shane started and is being repeated ad nauseum goes a bit far.  Sure Rex may not have emphasized offense, but they are on their third "system" and the first I have any respect for.  If Idzik trust/likes Mornhinweg I don't see the problem.  He knows he gave them sh*t to put on the field.  If Idzik wants his own people I am fine with that too. 

 

I think its a combination of the franchise valuing defense more and the loudest guys in the room not knowing how to properly evaluate offensive talen(or werent as passionate about it). Mike Pettine was getting Tannenbaum's ear before Bill Callahan. Rex too obviously.

[joewillie78]

 

Geno's a rookie. I dont know what people expect. Give Geno a Reggie Wayne and things would be way different. No rookie QB was coming in and putting up numbers with a marginal running game, a weak oline and non NFL caliber WR's.

 I kind of thought the same thing with Luck coming into a 1-15 team and RGIII coming into a 4-12 team, and lo and behold, both are playoff teams with their QB's as rookies. Even (egads, although it did take Painter relieveing Manning) Sanchez as a rookie was dare I say, serviceable.

As a rookie QB, I simply look for PROGRESSION, and with GENO it has been incredible regression. He is putting up single digit TQBRS, completely unacceptable, even throwing to you and I.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

 

 Thank you, Eric Decker. Again, some of those names I mentioned above, seriously, I had NEVER heard of until Manning and Brady were slinging them the ball. Decker was average/maybe good, but now Peyton is sending him to Hawaii in February.

Sorry, give me a Franchise guy, and I will find a few healthy bodies (like the Jets have), for them to throw to, and then all of sudden, the NFL world will know these guys names.

 

Peyton threw the ball to Decker because he was OPEN.  Brady throws to people who have achieved separation.  Yes, they make the occasional tight throw, but they generally throw to open receivers. Has Andrew Luck suddenly turned to crap, or has Reggie Wayne being out changed their offense?

 

You can blame the scheme, sure, but these guys they have out there now either can't, or don't know how to get open. 

 

Quite a few times during the last game, CBS showed overhead shots of the patterns being run, and every Jet receiver had a Dolphin on him like a second skin. No QB could complete passes in that situation.

 

I don't know if Geno can be a good QB and neither does anyone else here. Until there are some playmakers on this team, no one will be successful.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Wilson was skipped over by the entire NFL for over 4 rounds. It wasn't just Kiper.

 

Franchise QBs are very rarely evident coming out of college. For every Peyton, there are many more Ryan Leafs or Jamarcus Russels.

 

Not to defend Geno, he has been terrible, but Marino, Elway, or even Manning couldn't do anything with these receivers. There is never any separation, and every one of them can be taken out of the game by the lowliest cornerback.

 

Until we get some playmakers, no QB will be successful here. 

 

My point was not solely to criticize Kiper, although it would be deserved, or to laud the upcoming crop of quarterbacks, it was to mock the general atmosphere of football forums and how individuals perpetuate ideas taken from internet hacks who think they're scouts because they watch football games. 

 

Ie. You have people disappointed over the the play of their team's offensive players, so they say "Hey, just take the best WR, RB and TE in that order and we'll be fine," yet have absolutely no idea the value of those players at various points during the draft. It's completely shortsighted: they'd rather draft a WR/RB/TE who's ranked 38th on their respective team's big-board, compared to an offensive lineman or OLB who's say worth 13th? That's how you wind up with a talentless roster. Or, my favorite: posters who will tear down one person's opinion on a player that they've never seen and will instead say "No, Player X is awful, he's not even on [insert draftnik] top 10 list, we should totally draft Player Z from [insert school here]," showing that they are advocating for a player that they've never even seen. I mean seriously? It's akin to telling someone that they're an idiot for buying the Vantage V10 and that the Ferrari f350 handles much better, without ever driving either.

 

The internet is full of a bunch of people who've never even seen players play and yet will regurgitate the opinion's of others as fact. It's a reason that I won't discuss players outside of LSU, the SEC and the occasional big time prospect. Hey, if someone wants to give completely uninformed opinions, that's fine, but don't act like it's fact and don't be a complete sarcastic douche-bag that makes the board I like to visit unbearable to read.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I think the whole "Rex won't develop QBs" mantra that Shane started and is being repeated ad nauseum goes a bit far. Sure Rex may not have emphasized offense, but they are on their third "system" and the first I have any respect for. If Idzik trust/likes Mornhinweg I don't see the problem. He knows he gave them sh*t to put on the field. If Idzik wants his own people I am fine with that too.

Starting rookie QBs who are thought of as not being ready and putting garbage around them is generally not a successful way to develop a QB.

Rex has done this twice now.

Why should he get a third? Or are we now going the Jason Campbell route to mediocrity forever?

[joewillie78]

 

Peyton threw the ball to Decker because he was OPEN.  Brady throws to people who have achieved separation.  Yes, they make the occasional tight throw, but they generally throw to open receivers. Has Andrew Luck suddenly turned to crap, or has Reggie Wayne being out changed their offense?

 

You can blame the scheme, sure, but these guys they have out there now either can't, or don't know how to get open. 

 

Quite a few times during the last game, CBS showed overhead shots of the patterns being run, and every Jet receiver had a Dolphin on him like a second skin. No QB could complete passes in that situation.

 

I don't know if Geno can be a good QB and neither does anyone else here. Until there are some playmakers on this team, no one will be successful.

 All valid points but does the QB also count as a playmaker in your assessment?

[Matt39]

 

 I kind of thought the same thing with Luck coming into a 1-15 team and RGIII coming into a 4-12 team, and lo and behold, both are playoff teams with their QB's as rookies. Even (egads, although it did take Painter relieveing Manning) Sanchez as a rookie was dare I say, serviceable.

As a rookie QB, I simply look for PROGRESSION, and with GENO it has been incredible regression. He is putting up single digit TQBRS, completely unacceptable, even throwing to you and I.

 

Geno's looked terrible...but a 2nd round QB working with moving parts every week...and these parts being basically scrubs, is a terrible introduction into the league. A QB losing his confidence is overrated imo....but I said from the get-go there was no reason to play Geno with this group on offense and expect to get a good feel of what type of player he was.

[bitonti]

Starting rookie QBs who are thought of as not being ready and putting garbage around them is generally not a successful way to develop a QB.

Rex has done this twice now.

Why should he get a third? Or are we now going the Jason Campbell route to mediocrity forever?

 

you talk about these decisions to start Geno and surround him with garbage like Rex did this things. these are Idzik decisions. You should be talking about firing Idzik. There are things Rex does that I don't agree with for example playing Ed Reed and Cro even tho they are done and the high rate of penalties. But blaming him for geno smith sucking is just inaccurate. Blame Idzik. He's also the genius who thought the WR were fine, until they weren't when he signed Salas, Nelson, etc.