Rex vs. Bellichick Record Comparison: 78 Games Each

[Sperm Edwards]

Then you read what you want to and not anything even close to what I said.

 

If you say so.  I think it was pretty close; that unless we have one of 2 or 4 QBs that any QB is basically at the mercy of those surrounding him.  Drawing attention to 21 other players suggest that. Absent your noting other wise, it also suggests that the QB is but 1 of 22 players, as though they're all equal (again, unless they're among your magic 4).

[jetsjetsjetss]

i like when people on this forum compare stats

 

geno = peyton manning

 

rex = bellichick

[Jacked4JetsFB]

If you say so. I think it was pretty close; that unless we have one of 2 or 4 QBs that any QB is basically at the mercy of those surrounding him. Drawing attention to 21 other players suggest that. Absent your noting other wise, it also suggests that the QB is but 1 of 22 players, as though they're all equal (again, unless they're among your magic 4).

Yes , this was exactly what I said , exactly.

[T0mShane]

They had an above-average QB by stats, like in the Pittsburgh game. But despite his 102 rating, he sucked and choked. QB rating doesn't take into account his fumbles and places the same importance on crucial pass attempts as it does on non-crucial ones. An incomplete pass that is followed by a TD pass is inconsequential. An incomplete pass that forces a punt is not the same.

The urban legend is that I think they had a very good chance to with an above-average QB, or a QB who played like he was.

Swap Sanchez & Flacco, and the Ravens don't get past the Broncos last year. If that were the case, and they lost, you would really be the one to stand up and say that "If only the Ravens had Joe Flacco they'd have won the superbowl"? Fat freaking chance.

You don't know what would have happened. Maybe they'd have still lost. Maybe if the offense did something in the first half the D would have played differently. Or even if they were just as bad as they were, maybe we'd have gone into the half down 17-7 or 17-10, where it's still very much a game, instead of down 24-3 where it was basically over already.

They didn't lose to the Steelers or the Colts because of the offense. Sanchez was good enough to win in both of those games. They lost to the Steelers because immortal backs like Mendenhall and Redman went for close to 200 yards on the ground at ~5 YPC. They lost to the Colts because The Greatest Of All Defensive Masterminds couldn't conjure a way to defend against Pierre Garçon and Blair White. Would it have been nice if the QB threw for 400 yards and 4 TDs? Sure. But you could say that about every playoff losing team. Bottom line is, Sanchez didn't lose those games. It's fine to imagine an alternate history where Rex gets to coach Peyton Manning, but he didn't, and he (and the organization) couldn't come up with anything close. Some of that falls on him, making it impossible to exonerate him outright for the handling of the QB position.

[Matt39]

Sanchez  wasnt the reason they lost those championship games. JN is the only place I've ever seen or heard that  narrative. An  average replacement level player would have done the same.

 

The defense was abysmal in the first half of the Steelers game and in  the 2nd half of the Colts game.

[Matt39]

They had an above-average QB by stats, like in the Pittsburgh game.  But despite his 102 rating, he sucked and choked.  QB rating doesn't take into account his fumbles and places the same importance on crucial pass attempts as it does on non-crucial ones.  An incomplete pass that is followed by a TD pass is inconsequential.  An incomplete pass that forces a punt is not the same.  

 

The urban legend is that I think they had a very good chance to with an above-average QB, or a QB who played like he was.  

 

Swap Sanchez & Flacco, and the Ravens don't get past the Broncos last year.  If that were the case, and they lost, you would really be the one to stand up and say that "If only the Ravens had Joe Flacco they'd have won the superbowl"?  Fat freaking chance. 

 

You don't know what would have happened in Pittsburgh.  Maybe they'd have still lost. Or maybe if the offense did something in the first half the D would have played differently.  Or even if they were just as bad as they were, maybe we'd have gone into the half down 17-7 or 17-10, where it's still very much a game, instead of down 24-3 where it was basically over already.  

 

Put that Peyton Manning that played the Ravens on the Jets team who played the Steelers and they still lose.

[Smashmouth]

The numbers don't take game situations into account, and it's kind of a big deal.

 

When the game was close, or in crunch time, he sucked and the Jets resided in 3 & Out City.

 

Steamrolled by the Steelers?  The defense gave up a net of 15 points that the offense was unable to overcome.  They'd get a turnover and the offense behind Sanchez would go 3 & out.  Shall we play a game of "Let's count the 3 & Outs" for those games? 

 

Against the Colts Manning picked apart our 3rd-rate, non-Revis DBs.  I've seen him do that once or twice in his career.  Of course, some QBs can actually win football games when the defense doesn't shut down the other team.  Just not the QB you're citing.

 

You have seriously low expectations for QBs.

 

Funny I seem to remember him playing pretty clutch in the 2010 Colts game and the NE game. In back to back wins. I also remember him bringing us back in the Steeler game and in the end our defense could not get the 3rd and long stop. You know like great defenses do all the time. I also remember him staking us to a lead in the 2009 Colts AFCCG and our defense sh*tting the bed after good ole Rex went into conservative mode on both offense and defense giving up 24 unanswered points.

 

This is just based on the playoffs Im not arguing whether hes good or bad just citing those games. Most here claim Rex would have won 2 SB's with Decent QB play and from what I see Sanchez gave him 94.4 QB rating and cluch play when needed with minimal turnovers. So what happened ?

[Sperm Edwards]

Funny I seem to remember him playing pretty clutch in the 2010 Colts game and the NE game. In back to back wins. I also remember him bringing us back in the Steeler game and in the end our defense could not get the 3rd and long stop. You know like great defenses do all the time. I also remember him staking us to a lead in the 2009 Colts AFCCG and our defense sh*tting the bed after good ole Rex went into conservative mode on both offense and defense giving up 24 unanswered points.

 

This is just based on the playoffs Im not arguing whether hes good or bad just citing those games. Most here claim Rex would have won 2 SB's with Decent QB play and from what I see Sanchez gave him 94.4 QB rating and cluch play when needed with minimal turnovers. So what happened ?

 

lol

 

So Sanchez staked us a lead until Rex went into conservative mode.

 

And Sanchez SUCKED in the Pittsburgh game.  The thing with QB ratings is they don't account for WHEN incomplete passes came (nor fumbles either, which he had 2 of, and one was returned the other way for the game-sealing TD).  Meanwhile he had a 102 QB rating for the game and he was pathetic until Pittsburgh went into the same conservative mode you so love.  

 

His incomplete passes and blunders came at crucial points in the game.  3rd downs, back-to-back 2nd & 3rd downs, and on drives when we desperately needed to get into the endzone or at least not go 3 and out.

 

Yet years later you still place full blame for the loss on one side of the football that gave up a net of 15 points in the game.  It's as if you fault the JETS' defense for giving up Sanchez's fumble-return TD.

 

In between those 3 scoring drives for Pittsburgh, you have seemed to erase from your memory what ELSE happened:

 

Steelers: long - and painful to watch - drive for a TD (STEELERS 7, JETS 0)

 

Jets: punt (3^rd & 14 Sanchez throws a 3 yard pass to Cotchery)

 

Steelers:  Jets D intercepts Roethlisberger

 

Jets: 3 and out (punt)

 

Steelers: FG (STEELERS 10, JETS 0)

 

Jets: 3 and out (punt).  Started drive on our 40 and couldn't even get into FG range.

 

Steelers: TD (STEELERS 17, JETS 0)

 

Jets: Sanchez sacked, fumbles, and Steelers return it for a TD

 

STEELERS 24, JETS 0.  Game over.

 

Looks to me like both sides of the ball had a big hand in the loss, but the difference is no one expected the D to shut out Pittsburgh.  10 points for the first half (give or take) was expected, since most figured Pittsburgh to score 20 points (give or take) for the whole game.  So they gave up 17 in the first half and -2 in the second half.  Still very winnable.  But it's NOT very winnable when the offense scores 17 after the QB first surrenders 7 for the other team.

 

Summary for the game, with all the good play and bad on both sides:  Defense surrendered 15 net points.  Offense scored 10 net points.  

 

Given these results, your assertion for years has been that the defense was BY FAR the main reason we lost; naturally I disagree.  If Sanchez didn't give 7 back the other way you could THEN make the arguments you're trying to.  But since it erases a TD scored on offense, in my opinion you can't credibly do that.  And lucky for Sanchez's numbers, neither the fumble nor the TD scored on that fumble show up in his marvelous QB rating.  Neither does fumbling inside the 20, which would have been magnified had villainous Greene not immediately gained 16 on the next play.  Neither does a QB rating amplify the importance of back-to-back incomplete passes on 2nd & goal and 3rd & goal from the 1.  They're treated, in the QBR formula, the same as innocently (and properly) throwing the ball away to avoid a sack.  

 

It was fun to watch the near-comeback in the 2nd half, but Sanchez was a day late & a dollar short as they say.  Largely due to his own play in the first half, the game was already over unless he was PERFECT in the 2nd half, which he most certainly wasn't no matter what his passer rating was.

 

And nobody "guarantees" any SBs with a better QB.  Just that he was a bigger handicap than people make him out to be.  Maddening as the conservative offense was those first 2 years, we were comparatively effective at running the football and it may have saved the seasons by preventing another dozen turnovers by a QB who threw an interception or fumbled nearly 80x in 3 years WITHOUT having him drop back to pass an additional 100-200x.

[Lizard King]

BILL O’BRIEN’S NOT LOOKING FOR TOO MUCH—JUST ANOTHER TOM BRADY. Just kidding. He’s not. But what the new Texans coach wants in whoever is under center for him in 2014 (it won’t be Matt Schaub, if the rest of the organization has anything to do with it) is someone who, like Brady, has a passion for football that equals O’Brien’s. “I’d be getting texts, calls from Tom on Wednesday night about the third-down package,’’ O’Brien told me. “Thursday night I’d be hearing from him 9 o’clock, 10 o’clock about red-zone plays. Obviously, he’s talented, but Tom never stopped thinking about football. When you coach Tom Brady, you’re not coaching with him; you’re a partner in the offense with him. That’s the ideal for a quarterback—someone who cares about it as much as you do.” O’Brien found that in Matt McGloin at Penn State in his first year there, and it’s why he went to the mat with NFL teams, stridently insisting to them last spring they should give McGloin a shot in training camp. The Raiders did, and McGloin ended up playing seven games for Oakland, outperforming Terrelle Pryor. The big question for O’Brien: Is Teddy Bridgewater that guy with the No. 1 pick? Is Blake Bortles (288 passing yards, three touchdowns, 74 percent completions in a Sept. 14 Central Florida win at Penn State) the guy after a trade down? Or Johnny Manziel, or Tajh Boyd, or Derek Carr? O’Brien will find out soon enough. “I just got in the building,’’ he said. “There are so many scenarios. We draft a quarterback there, we trade the pick to someone who’ll give us a lot for it, or we take another position. Lots of time to figure that out.” The draft is four months from tomorrow. O’Brien will be sick of the over-analysis by then.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/07/lovie-smith-darrelle-revis-tampa-bay-buccaneers/

[Integrity28]

Can someone provide a side-by-side comparison of Rex's record in SuperBowl's, versus Bill's?

 

Thanks.

[Scott Dierking]

Can someone provide a side-by-side comparison of Rex's record in SuperBowl's, versus Bill's?

 

Thanks.

I believe he is undefeated, so how can he do better? 

[Scott Dierking]

Then you read what you want to and not anything even close to what I said.

The SE form of debate is to take your hypotheticals and state exactly why the can not happen based on his pre-disposed thoughts.

 

Then, he will spit out his hypotheticals and mandate they be validated as if they are doctrine from the Gods.

[#27TheDominator]

The SE form of debate is to take your hypotheticals and state exactly why the can not happen based on his pre-disposed thoughts.

 

Then, he will spit out his hypotheticals and mandate they be validated as if they are doctrine from the Gods.

1 5:54 NYJ 27 7 4:11 29 Punt

2 12:32 NYJ 35 3 2:00 -2 Punt

3 6:51 NYJ 40 3 0:54 3 Punt

4 2:00 NYJ 33 3 0:47 -14 Fumble

 

All the defenses fault.  For sure.

[CTM]

Sanchez  wasnt the reason they lost those championship games. JN is the only place I've ever seen or heard that  narrative. An  average replacement level player would have done the same.

 

The defense was abysmal in the first half of the Steelers game and in  the 2nd half of the Colts game.

 

You don't get out much, Sanchez was atrocious until Steelers laid off with game in hand.

 

And he was terrible in the second half of Indy game once Greene got hurt, 0 points and a turnover in the second half of a championship game against peyton manning?? Colts had an average defense and we were in a dome + we got ball first! That is not representative of avg QB play.

 

You guys distort reality way too much to support the idea that Rex is a bad coach

[Scott Dierking]

1 5:54 NYJ 27 7 4:11 29 Punt

2 12:32 NYJ 35 3 2:00 -2 Punt

3 6:51 NYJ 40 3 0:54 3 Punt

4 2:00 NYJ 33 3 0:47 -14 Fumble

 

All the defenses fault.  For sure.

This is not a Rex debate. Give it a rest.

[Lizard King]

You don't get out much, Sanchez was atrocious until Steelers laid off with game in hand.

 

And he was terrible in the second half of Indy game once Greene got hurt, 0 points and a turnover in the second half of a championship game against peyton manning?? Colts had an average defense and we were in a dome + we got ball first! That is not representative of avg QB play.

 

You guys distort reality way too much to support the idea that Rex is a bad coach

No Sanchez fan here, but they didn't lay off, a legitimate comeback was staged and some piss poor goal line playcalling was one of many reasons that they lost when the second half momentum was all theirs.

[CTM]

No Sanchez fan here, but they didn't lay off, a legitimate comeback was staged and some piss poor goal line playcalling was one of many reasons that they lost when the second half momentum was all theirs.

 

yes they did

[Lizard King]

yes they did

 

No way

[CTM]

No way

 

si

[Lizard King]

si

no

[#27TheDominator]

No Sanchez fan here, but they didn't lay off, a legitimate comeback was staged and some piss poor goal line playcalling was one of many reasons that they lost when the second half momentum was all theirs.

 

The piss poor goal line play calling actually netted them 2 points.  They got the safety and the ball back in great field position for the score to Cotchery.  The real sin was the way they pissed time away on that short ass drive.