joebabyny Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I see some people think along the lines that we are not a SB contending team, and so why spend the money when we are still evaluating what talent we have and trying to build the team through the draft for the future. My concern is, look at what we have just gone through in the qb position over the last few years. Whether or not Sanchez was a quality starting qb for the Jets was a question mark through his 5 years on the team (4 of which he was the starter) and 2 afc championship appearances. If you look at his last 2 seasons starting, he had next to no weapons on offense, either due to injuries or poor team building by the front office. Contrary to whatever your thoughts on Sanchez, this is really an indisputable fact. I mean Derrick Mason and Plax post-incarceration??? Maybe Sanchez did suck, but can anyone honestly say he was given a fair shake with offensive talent even in the top half of the league? No. Heck, we had the worst WR corps in the league. Every year from when he was drafted, the offensive line and skill positions got worse. The worst part about this is the lingering that was done in evaluating him as a player. There was always the strong valid argument that "hey, he is not getting it done but he did show flashes and maybe with some good talent around him he could flourish." Maybe there is truth in that, maybe there isn't, but I do know the Jets didn't really do anything to find out if that was the case as they just never signed a true wr talent, or te or rb talent either. Holmes was never a true #1, just a quick guy who made his fame off of the back of one great catch during the super bowl on a team that was heavily run oriented at the time. And besides, he spent nearly a year injured and when he came back he had an erector set surgically implanted into his foot, not a great thing for a short WR making his money on his speed. So my issue his, how can you truly evaluate Geno if you don't provide the other half of the equation. You need someone skilled in passing the ball, but without someone skilled in catching it, how can you tell what you have? QB is the most important position not only on offense, not only in football, but in all of the major pro sports. To truly evaluate the player, you need to eliminate as many variables as possible. Eric Decker is a fine WR, but he always had other explosive WRs along side him. Now, maybe he can be a true #1 and flourish as the top target garnering all the defensive pressure, but what if he doesn't this year? Is it Geno's fault or is it that Decker isn't that guy? It can be hard to tell. A top 10 #1 wr vet still at a young age like Desean Jackson does not come along often in free agency, and even less often under circumstances that make him as affordable as he is right now. Maybe he is a bad guy, but maybe he isn't or maybe he will learn his lesson by having his wings clipped like this. But I do know that either way, he always performed on the field. You line up Desean Jackson, Eric Decker, and Jeremy Kerley, and all of a sudden you have a trio of WR talent that can hang with anyone in the league. Not the best, but good enough to win it all. At that point, if it can't get done then at least you know where you stand in the QB department. If Geno gets it done but Jackson does turn out to be a locker room cancer, then at least you know you have the right QB and you can cut ties with Jackson who was brought in relatively cheap and you can be secure in the decision in the next year's draft to lay it all on the line to trade up and grab the top WR prospect. Either way, we can pretty definitively know where we stand at qb, and in my eyes that is easily worth the risk of signing a possible troublemaker to the team for 1 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Proven NFL WRs like Jackson would help with the development of Geno Smith I been saying this for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 MIssing meetings and bitching to or about the QB can be just as damaging as lack of talent. Remember 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I see some people think along the lines that we are not a SB contending team, and so why spend the money when we are still evaluating what talent we have and trying to build the team through the draft for the future. My concern is, look at what we have just gone through in the qb position over the last few years. Whether or not Sanchez was a quality starting qb for the Jets was a question mark through his 5 years on the team (4 of which he was the starter) and 2 afc championship appearances. If you look at his last 2 seasons starting, he had next to no weapons on offense, either due to injuries or poor team building by the front office. Contrary to whatever your thoughts on Sanchez, this is really an indisputable fact. I mean Derrick Mason and Plax post-incarceration??? I stopped reading here. No offense, but you're already all over the place. Mason and Plaxico were not on the team his first 2 seasons. In his first 2 seasons he had Keller, Cotchery, Edwards, and Holmes. You are judging these receivers' talents, at that stage of their careers, based on their stats while on the receiving end of one of the NFL's worst starting QBs and a team that was decidedly (and understandably) a run-first, run-second team. Also he got the luxury of playing with a ground attack and defense and OL that took gobs of pressure off him. Leon and LT were more than adequate for 3rd downs and checkdowns. I can't blame Tannenbaum for Leon breaking his leg mid-season. Even still, there are Superbowl winners - including the one in our division - that have had less to work with. I'm not going to anoint Tannenbaum the GM of the Century crown, but the team both had and brought in receivers for him. Sanchez was terrible because his passes landed away from his receivers, not because they brought in Derrick Mason for a month, until his job was taken away by the only receiver still with the team. Not because they brought in Plaxico Burress who, despite his shortcomings, also bailed Sanchez out with some pretty impressive circus catches. Even still, I'd use your examples as the same reason to NOT repeat history, and instead build largely through the draft. And do it smartly instead of getting wowed by some project's height and 40 time. The last thing I'd like to see is the team chasing after another inconsistent and/or team cancer player here & there at receiver or elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr726 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Philly didn't want to pay him 20 million over the next 2 years and are using this as an excuse to release him. I am in Philly everyday and he hasn't been an issue while he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think it's possible to improve the talent around Geno AND not sign Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think it's possible to improve the talent around Geno AND not sign Jackson. Yes Clyde Gates should be coming back from last years injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77DRAFT Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 ar Unfortunately he won't come at the discount teams had hoped, we will get Decker money and he deserves a little more, he does deserve the 10m a year, I think the Jets should sign him incase a 4.3 guy isn't there at 18, two 4.3 guys with Deck, and Kerly- that works. Get it done Rex ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes Clyde Gates should be coming back from last years injury. My bad. I didn't realize our only two options were Clyde Gates and Desean Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes Clyde Gates should be coming back from last years injury. Not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 My bad. I didn't realize our only two options were Clyde Gates and Desean Jackson. Eric Decker Jeremy Kerley Michael Campbell Clyde Gates Saalim Hakim Stephen HIll David Nelson Greg Salas We are stacked the WR position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Eric Decker Jeremy Kerley Michael Campbell Clyde Gates Saalim Hakim Stephen HIll David Nelson Greg Salas We are stacked the WR position. Straw man... Who said we were stacked? The point I'm making is that paying Desean Jackson is not the only way to improve at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Straw man... Who said we were stacked? The point I'm making is that paying Desean Jackson is not the only way to improve at WR. What are our options then? You said we had options I gave you the stacked roster and options. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 What are our options then? You said we had options I gave you the stacked roster and options. Now what? http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolot Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Eric Decker Jeremy Kerley Michael Campbell Clyde Gates Saalim Hakim Stephen HIll David Nelson Greg Salas We are stacked the WR position. yea we're in big trouble this Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014 We pick at 18 all the superstar playmaker immediate impact WRs will be long gone. Im still in awe of how stacked we are at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 yea we're in big trouble this Sunday This Sunday any Sunday as far as im concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 We pick at 18 all the superstar playmaker immediate impact WRs will be long gone. Im still in awe of how stacked we are at WR. You must be terribly confused when someone you've never heard of does well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 We pick at 18 all the superstar playmaker immediate impact WRs will be long gone. Im still in awe of how stacked we are at WR. Ah, the famous Desean Jackson makes us a super bowl contender argument mixed with another Straw Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You must be terribly confused when someone you've never heard of does well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It's like a toddler watching toy commercials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Philly didn't want to pay him 20 million over the next 2 years and are using this as an excuse to release him. I am in Philly everyday and he hasn't been an issue while he was here. I wonder about this. I really did not hear anything about him being a bad guy, but this Crip shooting thing may have caused some genuine fear. Yes Clyde Gates should be coming back from last years injury. Quick! Who had a better year Gates or Kenny Britt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfan4hire Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 His own team released him after the best statistical season of his life. The chiefs, who have his former coach running things in KC are not interested. That's enough red flags for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ah, the famous Desean Jackson makes us a super bowl contender argument mixed with another Straw Man. Straw man? Name calling to justify your argument is so damn childish and inmature but I don't expect anything different from you. Who are our options? I gave you the roster you defended lets hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Straw man? Name calling to justify your argument is so damn childish and inmature but I don't expect anything different from you. Who are our options? I gave you the roster you defended lets hear it. Oh boy... Straw man is not "name calling." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I gave you the option. The draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Oh boy... Straw man is not "name calling." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I gave you the option. The draft. I told you at 18 all the playmaker immediate impact WRs will be long gone we don't need another Stephen HIll project when we are trying to develop our franchise QB. Wilkipedia really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I told you at 18 all the playmaker immediate impact WRs will be long gone we don't need another Stephen HIll project when we are trying to develop our franchise QB. Wilkipedia really? 1) Can you prove that? 2) Unless you think Jackson makes us a super bowl contender, which you might, but that would be really dumb, then immediate impact isn't want is most important. Yes, Wikipedia. You obviously don't know what a straw man is, so, you're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 1) Can you prove that? 2) Unless you think Jackson makes us a super bowl contender, which you might, but that would be really dumb, then immediate impact isn't want is most important. Yes, Wikipedia. You obviously don't know what a straw man is, so, you're welcome. Prove what the fact that all draft picks aren't always what we wanted and don't always perform to NFL standards (Jets history proves that) Jackson makes Decker Kerley HIll Nelson and most importantly Geno Smith better and gives us a better shot then Gates and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I told you at 18 all the playmaker immediate impact WRs will be long gone we don't need another Stephen HIll project when we are trying to develop our franchise QB. Yeah, and since you said that, that must mean that it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr726 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 His own team released him after the best statistical season of his life. The chiefs, who have his former coach running things in KC are not interested. That's enough red flags for me. Andy Reid has enough skeletons in his own closet and he has Bowe. No one wants pay him big money because he's a small WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah, and since you said that, that must mean that it's true. Whats your opinion I value an opinion from a RutgersJetfan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 MIssing meetings and bitching to or about the QB can be just as damaging as lack of talent. Remember 2011? sure, in which case you just cut his ass. Jets won't have to pay much or trade any picks or players to sign him. It is not often you can get a player of that level so cheap, and it makes it easy to not have to be locked in to him long term if he is an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Prove what the fact that all draft picks aren't always what we wanted and don't always perform to NFL standards (Jets history proves that) Jackson makes Decker Kerley HIll Nelson and most importantly Geno Smith better and gives us a better shot then Gates and others. Prove that all the impact WRs will be gone by 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebabyny Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 I stopped reading here. No offense, but you're already all over the place. Mason and Plaxico were not on the team his first 2 seasons. And no offense to you, but I stopped reading here. Your reading comprehension is a little off today. I said "in his last 2 seasons," not his first 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Prove that all the impact WRs will be gone by 18. Need I remind you of Jets draft day history the big name WRs will be long gone at 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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