Marqise Lee is just as good or better than Sammy Watkins. Yea, I said it.

[Villain The Foe]

Watkins was a huge deal as a freshman. Best freshman WR in the nation. IIRC he was the top recruit out of HS too.

 

I think Cooks and Lee are high quality WR prospects, but wouldn't outright take them over Watkins on draft day. Maaaaaybe Cooks...no.

May be true, but in his 2nd year his numbers werent the same and you didnt hear about him. My point is the "experts" get on TV and and base everything on a players last year. If that approach is also taken by a teams front office then this will allow a top player to drop in the draft. From what I see, Marqise Lee is just as good as Watkins yet many people have Lee available at 18 but be hard pressed to find a mock with Watkins dropping out of the top 3/top 5. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

May be true, but in his 2nd year his numbers werent the same and you didnt hear about him. My point is the "experts" get on TV and and base everything on a players last year. If that approach is also taken by a teams front office then this will allow a top player to drop in the draft. From what I see, Marqise Lee is just as good as Watkins yet many people have Lee available at 18 but be hard pressed to find a mock with Watkins dropping out of the top 3/top 5.

And it's just so much more plausible to assume that everybody else is wrong than that your eyes don't have a clue what they're talking about.

[Villain The Foe]

I've provided game film and presented a case against Watkins earlier but it didn't elicit a single response.  I think most people mind-numbingly accept everything they read.  (The experts say so!)  All I ask is that you view the tape and come develop your own conclusion. 

Watkin's numbers were far and away gained on screens and handoffs (67%).  Route-running has not been his strength.  As I mentioned earlier when you watch his tape there are a ton of contested balls especially on the sidelines.  He doesn't separate because he doesn't run crisp routes.  He can beat college DB's deep but pretty much the entire field can (heck, Stephen Hill averaged 29 yds per catch).  He's a glorified RB, not that this is a bad thing but not good for Geno's development.

 

If he's sitting there with Lee, Evans, Beckham or Cooks, I'd pass on Watkins every single time.  He would not be of help in developing Geno's reads because he couldn't be relied upon to be in a certain place at a certain time like the other rookies or preferably, veterans would. 

 

As I said before, this is 2014's version of Gholston in the sense that while Watkins can play, expectations for him are going to far exceed his productivity and he's not going to help Schaub out in Oakland like you might think.  I predict more pick-6's from Matt next season.

YOU GOT TAPE! my favorite words! Post it here, I want to see what you got. I would have responded I most likely didnt see the post. 

[Villain The Foe]

I think we've reached a point in the NFL where staying away from USC WR's is probably the best way to go.

lol, I feel the same way about Duke when it comes to basketball. 

 

You've just destroyed any feeling I ever had for Lee! lol.

[Greenseed4]

I don't question the talent level of Marquis Lee; It's clear by seeing him pluck the ball out of the air, or jukking defenders in open space, or running the smoothest routes (I've ever seen), that the kid has talent.   For me it's a question of durability. Lee is well-built for a sprinter, but might struggle to survive the beating of a 16 week schedule with NFL sized defenders hammering him into the turf.  His injury history doesn't help. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

I don't question the talent level of Marquis Lee; It's clear by seeing him pluck the ball out of the air, or jukking defenders in open space, or running the smoothest routes (I've ever seen), that the kid has talent.   For me it's a question of durability. Lee is well-built for a sprinter, but might struggle to survive the beating of a 16 week schedule with NFL sized defenders hammering him into the turf.  His injury history doesn't help.

Besides this year with the knee I've never heard of anything else. Don't see him as a Dee Milliner prospect who has a slight frame and is going to need 4 surgeries every off-season.

[77DRAFT]

At 18 we take who's left, sometimes thats a good thing, usually works out pretty

well, hopefully the patriots get shut out of both wr and the.

[Greenseed4]

Besides this year with the knee I've never heard of anything else. Don't see him as a Dee Milliner prospect who has a slight frame and is going to need 4 surgeries every off-season.

 

Yes, but It is a nagging knee injury, which has affected him as recently as his pro day (just three weeks ago).

 

At 192, he checked in nearly 10 pounds lighter than Milliner did at his combine (201 lbs), at the same height. So if you considered Dee to be a "slight framed" player, where does that put Lee? 

 

A player comparison for Lee is Michael Crabtree, another NFL talent who has struggled with injuries throughout his career, and Crabtree was measured in at 6'1, 215 at his combine (over 20 pounds heavier than Lee).  Another player with a similar playing style is Sidney Rice (6'4, 200) and we know how that story has gone. 

These lanky receiver types are talented, but that talent doesn't help the team from a stationary bicycle. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Yes, but It is a nagging knee injury, which has affected him as recently as his pro day (just three weeks ago).

 

At 192, he checked in nearly 10 pounds lighter than Milliner did at his combine (201 lbs), at the same height. So if you considered Dee to be a "slight framed" player, where does that put Lee? 

 

A player comparison for Lee is Michael Crabtree, another NFL talent who has struggled with injuries throughout his career, and Crabtree was measured in at 6'1, 215 at his combine (over 20 pounds heavier than Lee).  Another player with a similar playing style is Sidney Rice (6'4, 200) and we know how that story has gone. 

These lanky receiver types are talented, but that talent doesn't help the team from a stationary bicycle.

Milliners combine weight wasn't his playing weight. Similar to how Deion Jordan has the same label playing at Oregon at 226lbs and showing up at the combine at 250.

Crabtree and many other receivers have struggles with injury throughout their career. Are you indicating that size was the cause of this? Of the many metrics you can't just link it to size. As for size Lee should be good at 5'11, 195 lbs. that shouldn't be consider lanky at all and if so, how? I fail to see how Sidney Rice compares to him at all (playing style and measurable).

Lee went through his field workouts fine at his pro day. There were no report or speculating about him stopping or slowing down cause of his knee.

[kay_gee]

I'd be 100% cool with the Jets drafting Lee.

[T0mShane]

I'd be 100% cool with the Jets drafting Lee.

Oh well in that case

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

I don't question the talent level of Marquis Lee; It's clear by seeing him pluck the ball out of the air, or jukking defenders in open space, or running the smoothest routes (I've ever seen),

I don't know where you guys get this stuff about Lee. I don't even recognize the player you describe. Lee in reality is a poor man's Cordarrelle Patterson. He's an open field player with speed and moves, that much you've got right, but that's all he is. He doesn't have Patterson's build, power, vision, or frankly even his moves, along with even worse discipline, to say nothing of winning at the line of scrimmage or making catches in press coverage like a real wide receiver. He's just another USC retard who came in blowing the doors off people on sheer talent and never actually got any better. I don't want him in the second round.

[Greenseed4]

I don't know where you guys get this stuff about Lee. I don't even recognize the player you describe. Lee in reality is a poor man's Cordarrelle Patterson. He's an open field player with speed and moves, that much you've got right, but that's all he is. He doesn't have Patterson's build, power, vision, or frankly even his moves, along with even worse discipline, to say nothing of winning at the line of scrimmage or making catches in press coverage like a real wide receiver. He's just another USC retard who came in blowing the doors off people on sheer talent and never actually got any better. I don't want him in the second round.

 

I'm not sure if you're being serious or what.  

 

You acknowledge that he's an "open field player with speed and moves"  and that he, "[blew] the doors off people on sheer talent," then insinuate that he's not a good player.  Which is it?  He's the Biletnikoff recipient in 2012, then nursed a knee injury for most of 2013.  Part of the reason he's incredibly talented is his ability to beat the jam at the LOS, and win separation with his route running. 

 

retard. 

[T0mShane]

I could see Lee going to a bad team and disappearing, but if he gets on the right team with a good passing game, he might be great. I don't think he's a transcendent talent that can overcome a bad QB.

This is indefensible.

[Larz]

I'd be just as happy getting an OG in the first and a WR in the 2nd or third

[Greenseed4]

Milliners combine weight wasn't his playing weight. Similar to how Deion Jordan has the same label playing at Oregon at 226lbs and showing up at the combine at 250.

Crabtree and many other receivers have struggles with injury throughout their career. Are you indicating that size was the cause of this? Of the many metrics you can't just link it to size. As for size Lee should be good at 5'11, 195 lbs. that shouldn't be consider lanky at all and if so, how? I fail to see how Sidney Rice compares to him at all (playing style and measurable).

Lee went through his field workouts fine at his pro day. There were no report or speculating about him stopping or slowing down cause of his knee.

 

 

Injuries in a contact sport are most definitely linked to size.  Physics, man.

[HessStation]

I don't know where you guys get this stuff about Lee. I don't even recognize the player you describe. Lee in reality is a poor man's Cordarrelle Patterson. He's an open field player with speed and moves, that much you've got right, but that's all he is. He doesn't have Patterson's build, power, vision, or frankly even his moves, along with even worse discipline, to say nothing of winning at the line of scrimmage or making catches in press coverage like a real wide receiver. He's just another USC retard who came in blowing the doors off people on sheer talent and never actually got any better. I don't want him in the second round.

Interesting you like Benjamin and hate on Lee.

I don't know what vision has to do w WRs. Lee is a better route runner w better hands than Patterson coming out. Also much more productive.

Not too many college defenses press cover.

I agree w some my major concern with Lee would be health. Not sure what's going on w the knee or why he didn't want to run at his pro day. But that would be the red flag IMO.

[Be_a_Jet]

I like Beckham over Lee for 18. I say this because Beckham had a better 40 (although I do admit that on tape they both look equally fast), but also Beckham has better hands of the two in my opinion, guess we wont know until next season though. I do like Lee, but I like Beckham better

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Injuries in a contact sport are most definitely linked to size.  Physics, man.

Uh, I was really hoping you would adress the other points you brought up but I guess you probably feel differently or there's really isn't much valid things to support them, especially Lee being comparable to Sidney Rice. As for the size, I'll do a little bit of copy and pasting ...

"Are you indicating that size was the cause of this? Of the many metrics you can't just link it to size."

As I said, size can be a reason but it's one of many metric as to why a player would get injured. So I would definitely agree along as you think it's not the sole reason. As for Lee you think him being 5'11 195 lbs makes him similar to Crabtree and therefore not suited for the NFL and if he had more muscle his knee wouldn't of gotten hurt?

[JiFtheOracle]

Which banned poster or secondary account is this? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that JiF was bored and hopped up on wine spritzers again. Or cock.

 

cock

[JiFtheOracle]

This is indefensible.

 

dont beat yourself up over it or anything

[LAD_Brooklyn]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWIL_futp44

[JiFtheOracle]

I don't know where you guys get this stuff about Lee. I don't even recognize the player you describe. Lee in reality is a poor man's Cordarrelle Patterson. He's an open field player with speed and moves, that much you've got right, but that's all he is. He doesn't have Patterson's build, power, vision, or frankly even his moves, along with even worse discipline, to say nothing of winning at the line of scrimmage or making catches in press coverage like a real wide receiver. He's just another USC retard who came in blowing the doors off people on sheer talent and never actually got any better. I don't want him in the second round.

 

Thats a terrible comparison.

[kay_gee]

Oh well in that case

 

 

why not? no way is Watkins around at 18. if he is, by all means, draft him over Lee. but Lee would be a good fit for the Jets.

[Greenseed4]

Milliners combine weight wasn't his playing weight. Similar to how Deion Jordan has the same label playing at Oregon at 226lbs and showing up at the combine at 250.

Crabtree and many other receivers have struggles with injury throughout their career. Are you indicating that size was the cause of this? Of the many metrics you can't just link it to size. As for size Lee should be good at 5'11, 195 lbs. that shouldn't be consider lanky at all and if so, how? I fail to see how Sidney Rice compares to him at all (playing style and measurable).

Lee went through his field workouts fine at his pro day. There were no report or speculating about him stopping or slowing down cause of his knee.

 

 

Uh, I was really hoping you would adress the other points you brought up but I guess you probably feel differently or there's really isn't much valid things to support them, especially Lee being comparable to Sidney Rice. As for the size, I'll do a little bit of copy and pasting ...

"Are you indicating that size was the cause of this? Of the many metrics you can't just link it to size."

As I said, size can be a reason but it's one of many metric as to why a player would get injured. So I would definitely agree along as you think it's not the sole reason. As for Lee you think him being 5'11 195 lbs makes him similar to Crabtree and therefore not suited for the NFL and if he had more muscle his knee wouldn't of gotten hurt?

 

I originally responded to every one of your points, but it came across as dick-ish, so I edited it all out.  

 

It went something like:

Dee Milliner is 6'0, 201 which I think is an ideal playing size for the cornerback position.  You, however labelled him as being slight of frame.  I was merely pointing out that Marquis Lee weighed close to ten pounds less at the Combine, at the same height...and that by using your logic that would make him even slighter framed. 

 

You also mention that players put on weight for the combine which is different than their playing weights, citing Dion Jordan as an example.  Jordan plays against 300 lb lineman, so weighing 226 at 6'6 puts him at a disadvantage.  He packed on some pounds to dis-spell those worries, and still looked lanky despite weighing in at 248.  It's a ratio thing.  Never mind the positional difference, just looking at them I can tell they look lean. 

 

You said Lee should be good at 5'11, 195.  He should be. The problem is he is 6'0, 192.  It's only a minor difference; an inch this way and a couple pounds that way. But in this game, at that position, ten pounds can be the difference between surviving a season or riding a bicycle.

 

Michael Crabtree had a bad knee injury, an Achillies thingie, a stressline foot fracture, and I'm pretty sure a shoulder something. 

Sidney Rice had knee-stuff, shoulder-stuff and concussion issues.  

 

Of the players in the league that Lee reminds me of, I thought of these guys.  Their playing styles are similar; long-striders with large catch radiuses (radiai?) who are better with long speed than short area, and are known for their aerobatic catches and YAC.  Are they exactly similar? No.  I even pointed out that both Crabtree and Rice were substantially heavier when they entered the league, and they STILL have had incredible struggles with injuries. 

 

Finally, I pointed out that Lee did perform his on-field workout at USC, but he failed to run the forty.  The ONE activity he could have done to improve upon his Combine stats, yet he opted not to.  Had he ran in the 4.4's he would have dis-spelled all worries about his speed and made himself a lot more money in the draft.  He opted not to.  This has fueled speculation that his knee isn't right yet. 

 

Excellent athlete.  Amazing talent.  But he's lanky.  That makes him an injury risk. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SenorGato]

I'd be just as happy getting an OG in the first and a WR in the 2nd or third

 

Yep, I'm stretching and holding out hope for Lewan himself. Sign CJ, draft the best OL they can in round 1, grab a couple WRs, a couple DBs, a QB prospect, and maybe an OLB prospect.