FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I really think it would be insanity to give an unproven guy with a .300 winning percentage a third year. That's a SOJ move. This team is rebuilding, like it or not, that's the fact. Building a team is not a one year thing...Let's look at facts... 1) He inherited a salary cap nightmare, so his first year was cleaning up. 2) He was forced to keep his HC in year one 3) He was forced to keep the head of scouting 4) He drafted the rookie of the year in year 1 5) Jets are now in one of the best cap positions in the league right now. 6) Judging his year 2 draft half way through the season is absurd...beyond ridiculous to even attempt to do that. 7) No GM is their right mind would ever take a job with this team if the owner isn't going to give a GM a chance to rebuild this team. 8) This team needed so much and still does and it's going to take time. The SOJ thing to do is to fire him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Tom defending a train reck GM while bashing anyone who dares say something positive about Rex is a tasty little treat that everyone can enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Harvin is an extremely talented young player that they just picked up for a mid-round pick, and whom they have some leverage with. The upside is great, if he likes NY and gets his head together even a little bit. The downside is that he's cut, you lose a 6th, and you have 43+ million in cap space. If there's one thing that's clear, it's that John Idzik doesn't give a rat's ass what the fanbase thinks about him. So the upside is, you may be able to resign him? As opposed to spending that extra $7mm on a not insane WR - take that extra $7mm and throw it at one of the many impact WR that will be available - over pay them by $7mm and you'll get your guy. There was NO logic behind that move other than PR - horrible way to run a franchise... As you stated I think Idzik was trying to run this team without listening to the fan base (and he shouldn't) which is why I'm almost certain this was a woody call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I really think it would be insanity to give an unproven guy with a .300 winning percentage a third year. That's a SOJ move. I just don't think you can evaluate Idzik's effectiveness independent of Rex Ryan without removing Rex first. If you want to fire Idzik for keeping Rex, that's a valid reason: but I don't think you can fire him based on the record when the coach he was forced to keep is a proven loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So the upside is, you may be able to resign him? As opposed to spending that extra $7mm on a not insane WR - take that extra $7mm and throw it at one of the many impact WR that will be available - over pay them by $7mm and you'll get your guy. There was NO logic behind that move other than PR - horrible way to run a franchise... As you stated I think Idzik was trying to run this team without listening to the fan base (and he shouldn't) which is why I'm almost certain this was a woody call. Which non-insane WR? Dez Bryant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Tom defending a train reck GM while bashing anyone who dares say something positive about Rex is a tasty little treat that everyone can enjoy. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Which non-insane WR? Dez Bryant? Dez would be a nice choice....If you overpaid Dez $7mm more than what the market is willing to pay...You know what - You get him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I just don't think you can evaluate Idzik's effectiveness independent of Rex Ryan without removing Rex first. If you want to fire Idzik for keeping Rex, that's a valid reason: but I don't think you can fire him based on the record when the coach he was forced to keep is a proven loser. On the other hand, it's hard to feel bad for a guy that let himself be hamstrung. Especially considering his competition during the search process turned the job down for that very specific aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 On the other hand, it's hard to feel bad for a guy that let himself be hamstrung. Especially considering his competition during the search process turned the job down for that very specific aspect. I really don't think you can blame the GM for something the owner forced him to do. You can say, sucks for him and he deserve what he gets, but it's certainly not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Harvin is an extremely talented young player that they just picked up for a mid-round pick, and whom they have some leverage with. The upside is great, if he likes NY and gets his head together even a little bit. The downside is that he's cut, you lose a 6th, and you have 43+ million in cap space. If there's one thing that's clear, it's that John Idzik doesn't give a rat's ass what the fanbase thinks about him. So was Holmes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 On the other hand, it's hard to feel bad for a guy that let himself be hamstrung. Especially considering his competition during the search process turned the job down for that very specific aspect. That's the thing: if you fire him, it should be because he was the 8th choice who agreed to wear the albatross in the first place, in which case that would mean Woody had a catharsis where he admits he ****ed up, learns from it, and we move forward. The more likely scenario is that Woody fires Idzik because Mehta told him to, and we stay doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So was Holmes.... Holmes was a douche who was empowered by the idiot head coach to remain a douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That's the thing: if you fire him, it should be because he was the 8th choice who agreed to wear the albatross in the first place, in which case that would mean Woody hthat is more laughable a catharsis where he admits he ****ed up, learns from it, and we move forward. The more likely scenario is that Woody fires Idzik because Mehta told him to, and we stay doomed. Oh but you left out your 500 lb gorilla. If you believe idziot failed with Rex than your assertion is that we would be on our way to the Superbowl by now with idziot head coach of choice and this roster...and that is more laughable than giving idziot another try next year!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Holmes was a douche who was empowered by the idiot head coach to remain a douche. Harvin and yourself are douche too....so there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That's the thing: if you fire him, it should be because he was the 8th choice who agreed to wear the albatross in the first place, in which case that would mean Woody had a catharsis where he admits he ****ed up, learns from it, and we move forward. The more likely scenario is that Woody fires Idzik because Mehta told him to, and we stay doomed. I don't think Woody listens to anyone but himself. He's done a good job of hiding the fact that he's basically another Dolan, and he thinks he knows the game and how to manage things. In a perfect world, we would have fired everyone this week, begun the job search, and started 2nd and 3rd stringers in order to "evaluate talent" and put us in a position for evaluating if we want Mariota. Instead, we're going 5-12, Rex goes, Idzik stays, we're hiring Gase, Bowels, or Bevell, and we're getting Cooper or Ogbuehi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Oh but you left out your 500 lb gorilla. If you believe idziot failed with Rex than your assertion is that we would be on our way to the Superbowl by now with idziot head coach of choice and this roster...and that is more laughable than giving idziot another try next year!. Were we on the road to a Super Bowl in 2012? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't think Woody listens to anyone but himself. He's done a good job of hiding the fact that he's basically another Dolan, and he thinks he knows the game and how to manage things. In a perfect world, we would have fired everyone this week, begun the job search, and started 2nd and 3rd stringers in order to "evaluate talent" and put us in a position for evaluating if we want Mariota. Instead, we're going 5-12, Rex goes, Idzik stays, we're hiring Gase, Bowels, or Bevell, and we're getting Cooper or Ogbuehi. All of this is true. This is why I think Step One is to hire the guy empowered to control the football side by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Were we on the road to a Super Bowl in 2012? You change the subject conviently but let's see what Philly does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I really don't think you can blame the GM for something the owner forced him to do. You can say, sucks for him and he deserve what he gets, but it's certainly not his fault. Sure it is. Nobody held a gun to his head. He took the job. His competition said no thanks. Nothing stopping him from doing the same. End of the day Idzik put himself in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 All of this is true. This is why I think Step One is to hire the guy empowered to control the football side by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Sure it is. Nobody held a gun to his head. He took the job. His competition said no thanks. Nothing stopping him from doing the same. End of the day Idzik put himself in this position. By that theory any GM the Jets hired would be in the same position... So in other words, the Jets had no chance....which once again falls on the owner and not the GM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Problem is Woody isn't going to give up control. As been mentioned I don't think he wants to give up control. Winning is NOT Woody's top priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 By that theory any GM the Jets hired would be in the same position... So in other words, the Jets had no chance....which once again falls on the owner and not the GM... Correct. And it's not a theory. That's what happened. Caldwell turned us down because he wanted nothing to do with Rex, despite the fact that the Jets made him an absurd offer. Idzik chose to take the job after being informed he'd have to take Rex. Absolutely nothing in the world forcing him to take that offer. He chose to take it when he could have walked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't think Woody listens to anyone but himself. He's done a good job of hiding the fact that he's basically another Dolan, and he thinks he knows the game and how to manage things. In a perfect world, we would have fired everyone this week, begun the job search, and started 2nd and 3rd stringers in order to "evaluate talent" and put us in a position for evaluating if we want Mariota. Instead, we're going 5-12, Rex goes, Idzik stays, we're hiring Gase, Bowels, or Bevell, and we're getting Cooper or Ogbuehi. Heh. "Bowels." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I just don't think you can evaluate Idzik's effectiveness independent of Rex Ryan without removing Rex first. If you want to fire Idzik for keeping Rex, that's a valid reason: but I don't think you can fire him based on the record when the coach he was forced to keep is a proven loser. Keeping Rex/taking the job with rex as a condition should tell you all you need to know about the guy. Improvement doesn't come when you ignore reality and make excuses. Idzik has to go. He doesn't know what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Heh. "Bowels." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Brandon Dixon, the guy we drafted in the 6th, just laid DJAX THE F OUT. No injury though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 From that article, I think the conclusion is to hire this guy... http://nyjets.about.com/od/Featured-and-Editorial-Content/ss/New-York-Jets-general-manager-John-Idzik-compared-across-NFL_2.htm#step-heading Dallas Cowboys, Jerry JonesWhile his teams have fallen off greatly since their Super Bowl runs in the 90s, Jerry Jones still built the Cowboys up from nothing, beginning with his buying of the team in 1990. Jones took the Cowboys from 7-9 to 11-5 in his first two seasons as general manager and made gutsy, but good, decisions in letting go of coach Tom Landry and hiring Jimmy Johnson, and trading Herschel Walker and drafting Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Correct. And it's not a theory. That's what happened. Caldwell turned us down because he wanted nothing to do with Rex, despite the fact that the Jets made him an absurd offer. Idzik chose to take the job after being informed he'd have to take Rex. Absolutely nothing in the world forcing him to take that offer. He chose to take it when he could have walked. So then what's the upside with firing Idzik? If you have to assume whomever Woody hires will be handcuffed with similar restrictions and that no experiences GM will take the job...What's the point? Under these circumstances why not just keep Idzik? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 From that article, I think the conclusion is to hire this guy... http://nyjets.about.com/od/Featured-and-Editorial-Content/ss/New-York-Jets-general-manager-John-Idzik-compared-across-NFL_2.htm#step-heading Dallas Cowboys, Jerry Jones While his teams have fallen off greatly since their Super Bowl runs in the 90s, Jerry Jones still built the Cowboys up from nothing, beginning with his buying of the team in 1990. Jones took the Cowboys from 7-9 to 11-5 in his first two seasons as general manager and made gutsy, but good, decisions in letting go of coach Tom Landry and hiring Jimmy Johnson, and trading Herschel Walker and drafting Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman. Jimmy had total autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 This team is rebuilding, like it or not, that's the fact. Building a team is not a one year thing...Let's look at facts... 1) He inherited a salary cap nightmare, so his first year was cleaning up. 2) He was forced to keep his HC in year one 3) He was forced to keep the head of scouting 4) He drafted the rookie of the year in year 1 5) Jets are now in one of the best cap positions in the league right now. 6) Judging his year 2 draft half way through the season is absurd...beyond ridiculous to even attempt to do that. 7) No GM is their right mind would ever take a job with this team if the owner isn't going to give a GM a chance to rebuild this team. 8) This team needed so much and still does and it's going to take time. The SOJ thing to do is to fire him... http://youtu.be/YlVDGmjz7eM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Is Jerry Reese a great GM?No. In fact hes done a crappy job since 2011 and those 2 titles were buikt by Ernie Acorsi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So then what's the upside with firing Idzik? If you have to assume whomever Woody hires will be handcuffed with similar restrictions and that no experiences GM will take the job...What's the point? Under these circumstances why not just keep Idzik? The upside is preventing Idzik and Rex from selecting and developing a QB, which theyve proven incompetent in doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 They all suck burn it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 can someone give me the bullett point ? do we fire him or extend him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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