SenorGato Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Beasley is not particularly good against the run, but he's so good against the pass that I think they have to knock his play against the run. That's a Hot Take. Rivers Dupree Beasley Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I haven't read or seen that anywhere about Beasley, tbh. fwiw: "I think he is a one trick pony who played better as a junior than he did as a senior. He popped off the film for me last year. I was not as impressed breaking him down more closely this year. He's going to be drafted more highly than where I would take him. I think he is so one-dimensional and that one-dimension isn't as elite as I thought it was. It's not like he takes the corner all the time. His production comes in spurts. He gets blocked a lot and if he doesn't win at the get-off, he's stuck. He doesnt play the run very well...He is not as strong or as physical as (Seahawks 2012 15th overall pick) Bruce Irvin, who I thought was a reach coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 fwiw: "I think he is a one trick pony who played better as a junior than he did as a senior. He popped off the film for me last year. I was not as impressed breaking him down more closely this year. He's going to be drafted more highly than where I would take him. I think he is so one-dimensional and that one-dimension isn't as elite as I thought it was. It's not like he takes the corner all the time. His production comes in spurts. He gets blocked a lot and if he doesn't win at the get-off, he's stuck. He doesnt play the run very well...He is not as strong or as physical as (Seahawks 2012 15th overall pick) Bruce Irvin, who I thought was a reach coming out. Nawrocki? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Nawrocki? Scouts take, not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Scouts take, not him. I didn't mean to sound like I was dismissing Nawrocki, even though he's fun to pick on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I didn't mean to sound like I was dismissing Nawrocki, even though he's fun to pick on. The guy he called disingenuous (or who I've seen) was Nick O'leary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'd like to do better than "solid against the run" with #6 Thats all you need when you have the run stoppers the Jets do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 because multiple players that suck is somehow better ? lol Of course. Look how good the Jets were last year with multiple sucky draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I haven't read or seen that anywhere about Beasley, tbh. I haven't watched every single one of his games, but I've seen enough success on rushes his way to notice that its probably on teams' mind. When getting pushed back (which is too often IMO), he doesn't have anything at that point and can't break the block. I guarantee NFL teams will run at him often and succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Beasley is not particularly good against the run, but he's so good against the pass that I think they have to knock his play against the run. That's a Hot Take. Rivers Dupree Beasley Cooper So Beasley being a project pass rusher who can't stop the run, is a hot take, but calling Dante Fowler the most overrated player in this draft with no evidence to back that up, aside from comparing him to your boy Dupree, isn't? We agree that Dupree will be a a solid player, but I will be sure to say I told you so when Fowler turns out great and Beasley gets no more than 8 sacks a year while doing absolutely nothing else for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I haven't watched every single one of his games, but I've seen enough success on rushes his way to notice that its probably on teams' mind. When getting pushed back (which is too often IMO), he doesn't have anything at that point and can't break the block. I guarantee NFL teams will run at him often and succeed. He's much better in pursuit and coverage. Playing in a 3-4 behind the line of scrimmage should help but he's probably going to need to add another 10 pounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 So Beasley being a project pass rusher who can't stop the run, is a hot take, but calling Dante Fowler the most overrated player in this draft with no evidence to back that up, aside from comparing him to your boy Dupree, isn't? We agree that Dupree will be a a solid player, but I will be sure to say I told you so when Fowler turns out great and Beasley gets no more than 8 sacks a year while doing absolutely nothing else for the team. That's funny because fowler gets about 8 sacks a year in college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 He's much better in pursuit and coverage. Playing in a 3-4 behind the line of scrimmage should help but he's probably going to need to add another 10 pounds Pursuit, I'd hope so looking at his 40. But coverage, idk, straight line speed off the line guy. Wouldn't count on him covering much That's funny because fowler gets about 8 sacks a year in college He's also not a one trick pony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Pursuit, I'd hope so looking at his 40. But coverage, idk, straight line speed off the line guy. Wouldn't count on him covering much He's also not a one trick pony I guess you don't count passes defensed then or tackles for loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 So Beasley being a project pass rusher who can't stop the run, is a hot take, but calling Dante Fowler the most overrated player in this draft with no evidence to back that up, aside from comparing him to your boy Dupree, isn't? We agree that Dupree will be a a solid player, but I will be sure to say I told you so when Fowler turns out great and Beasley gets no more than 8 sacks a year while doing absolutely nothing else for the team. There's plenty of evidence on Fowler being overrated. Links and talk throughout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I guess you don't count passes defensed then or tackles for loss Jumping up and deflecting a pass at the line of scrimmage is not the same as covering a tightend or runningback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Jumping up and deflecting a pass at the line of scrimmage is not the same as covering a tightend or runningback. So you're saying he didn't drop into coverage at Clemson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 How is Von Miller in coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 So you're saying he didn't drop into coverage at Clemson? Not effectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Not effectively Fair enough I will have to review some footage. You have any examples in mind? I haven't looked at a lot of Plays other than pass rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Fair enough I will have to review some footage. You have any examples in mind? I haven't looked at a lot of Plays other than pass rush He's not asked to much aside from rushing the passer. Like I said before I haven't watched every game this season, and granted it's been about a month since I've had time to even watch those games. But against Cameron Erving (FSU) he did okay, that's the game that sticks out most to me. Cam's a late 1st, early 2nd rounder. If it were a competition against eachother, Cam would have won. Erving made Beasley irrelevant majority of the game, and this was the game Jameis Winston was suspended. So there's no telling how that effected the matchup. The games against stronger competition are on youtube, I'd suggest just looking up "Vic Beasley vs" and watch each game listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 There's plenty of evidence on Fowler being overrated. Links and talk throughout Overrated who the hell knows. It sure seems like he's going to be the first one off the board. I personally don't see it, but it isn't February anymore. There's a pretty strong consensus on this player and they're not all just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raideraholic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 He's not asked to much aside from rushing the passer. Like I said before I haven't watched every game this season, and granted it's been about a month since I've had time to even watch those games. But against Cameron Erving (FSU) he did okay, that's the game that sticks out most to me. Cam's a late 1st, early 2nd rounder. If it were a competition against eachother, Cam would have won. Erving made Beasley irrelevant majority of the game, and this was the game Jameis Winston was suspended. So there's no telling how that effected the matchup. The games against stronger competition are on youtube, I'd suggest just looking up "Vic Beasley vs" and watch each game listed. If you watch the tape Beasley versus Cam Erving, he didn't get the better of Beasley. The left guard of Florida St was chipping Beasley all game( Saved his bacon numerous times) Florida St wasn't going to let Beasley beat them. I suggest you watch Matt Walden film on That game . ( well done discussion on Beasley versus Erving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've watched every game he's ever played. Honestly, I dont know if he's the best pure pass rusher in the draft because we never got to see him play that role in a full time capacity when he was in school. And nobody really knows...we're all just speculating. What I do know is, what I got to watch while he was in school was a treat. He was a disruptive of a Gator as I've ever seen. In other words he's a damn good football player and a much better pick than a pure pass rusher who can't do anything else and you don't know if the pass rushing skills will translate to the NFL level. Just like someone else we used to know. If you gave me the choice between the great All around LB vs the great pass rusher I take the All Around LB every single time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 In other words he's a damn good football player and a much better pick than a pure pass rusher who can't do anything else and you don't know if the pass rushing skills will translate to the NFL level. Just like someone else we used to know. If you gave me the choice between the great All around LB vs the great pass rusher I take the All Around LB every single time Pretty much. Like I said, maybe Beasley and Dupree get 3-4 more sacks a season, maybe they dont. Who knows? Projecting pass rushers is one of the hardest things to do in the draft. They definitely had more success in the college game but all you have to do is watch 1 Florida game and see how he was used to see why they produce more sacks. But they're also both worthless doing anything else or at least they were in school. That's not the case with Fowler. Dude is relentless and disruptive, can play the run, can cover and get after the QB...basically everything you want in an OLB. I think once he gets the chance to play that roll full time, he'll be a different player than you saw in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 At the end of the day Fowler still has one productive season and bad measurables. Maybe he turns out to be good, some of these guys do. But don't bet on it. Not at 6. Coples, same thing. One good season, crap testing numbers. There have to be four better options (excepting the quarterbacks) with this high a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 There have to be four better options (excepting the quarterbacks) with this high a pick. Dude it's cool. Even if there aren't, the benefits from learning how to win against Tennessee and Miami will balance it all out anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If you watch the tape Beasley versus Cam Erving, he didn't get the better of Beasley. The left guard of Florida St was chipping Beasley all game( Saved his bacon numerous times) Florida St wasn't going to let Beasley beat them. I suggest you watch Matt Walden film on That game . ( well done discussion on Beasley versus Erving). I do recall some chipping, but I also recall Beasley getting stood up a lot. That's one of the things about him that bothers me about his game, once he is stood up, he becomes a non-factor. Once he's in that position he just tries to drive forward without using his hands and ends up going nowhere. Someone said it before in this thread, if he doesn't get a great jump at the snap I'm afraid he'll be almost useless against NFL tackles. We'll see, but that's my stance. I wouldn't draft him at 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I do recall some chipping, but I also recall Beasley getting stood up a lot. That's one of the things about him that bothers me about his game, once he is stood up, he becomes a non-factor. Once he's in that position he just tries to drive forward without using his hands and ends up going nowhere. Someone said it before in this thread, if he doesn't get a great jump at the snap I'm afraid he'll be almost useless against NFL tackles. We'll see, but that's my stance. I wouldn't draft him at 6. You play him standing up and let him use his speed he's going to be a nightmare for OT's, especially with a line like the jets have up front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raideraholic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I do recall some chipping, but I also recall Beasley getting stood up a lot. That's one of the things about him that bothers me about his game, once he is stood up, he becomes a non-factor. Once he's in that position he just tries to drive forward without using his hands and ends up going nowhere. Someone said it before in this thread, if he doesn't get a great jump at the snap I'm afraid he'll be almost useless against NFL tackles. We'll see, but that's my stance. I wouldn't draft him at 6. JMo Beasley is worth the fourth pick. I would have no problem if that was the Raiders pick at 4. Every college team game plan for controlling Beasley.( will be much better pro Because He won't see the attention he did in college. Once Beasley gets into a pro camp they can work on improving his technique. everything is easily fixable. again I would find that piece Matt Waldman had on Beasley , as it was very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Pretty much. Like I said, maybe Beasley and Dupree get 3-4 more sacks a season, maybe they dont. Who knows? Projecting pass rushers is one of the hardest things to do in the draft. They definitely had more success in the college game but all you have to do is watch 1 Florida game and see how he was used to see why they produce more sacks. But they're also both worthless doing anything else or at least they were in school. That's not the case with Fowler. Dude is relentless and disruptive, can play the run, can cover and get after the QB...basically everything you want in an OLB. I think once he gets the chance to play that roll full time, he'll be a different player than you saw in college. Man, between this and the Rivers stuff...I'm holding out hope you at least knew how full of it the "projecting pass rushers..." and the "worthless doing anything else..." lines were when you wrote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Man, between this and the Rivers stuff...I'm holding out hope you at least knew how full of it the "projecting pass rushers..." and the "worthless doing anything else..." lines were when you wrote them. Sorry we disagree on some stuff every once in awhile but makes our relationship real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Projecting pass rushers is one of the hardest things to do in the draft. Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 At the end of the day Fowler still has one productive season and bad measurables. Maybe he turns out to be good, some of these guys do. But don't bet on it. Not at 6. Coples, same thing. One good season, crap testing numbers. There have to be four better options (excepting the quarterbacks) with this high a pick. He had 2, just not the sack #s in 13. It was a productive season when you compare it to the rest of that D and they also lost Easley early forcing him to gain some weight and play more on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Sorry we disagree on some stuff every once in awhile but makes our relationship real. Sure, but couldn't it be something a little less clear cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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