Fitzmagic

[drdetroit]

The other thing about Pennington was he was a STATUE.  Not saying Fitz is a 2004 Vick but he at least has some pocket awareness and mobility.

[Larz]

No, but being a new QB in the league and having OC's tell you "on this play, you throw it to Percy Harvin no matter what" comes into play. 

 

I'll ask you for the third time. Whats the point of comparing these guys when you dont know what Geno is in THIS offense? Why pretend like Geno has never killed a bad play? I remember specifically Geno fixing an almost blown play, correcting the issue then throwing a TD pass. Do you know what his offensive coordinator did (with the help of Sheldon Richardson)? He called a time out instead of ALLOWING Geno to do what you're ultimately criticizing him for, in which the time out negated a game tying TD. 

 

How quickly people forget. 

 

 

devin smith doesn't make that catch on that underthrown pass from his back foot.  did you see the WR slow down there ?  putrid weak arm sh*t right there

are you for real here ?

 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

If by "can do no wrong" you mean "won't screw us as often as Geno", then yes.

Probably right on that one. He'll probably wont screw us out of TD's as much as Marty Morningweg did against green bay too. 

[Villain The Foe]

devin smith doesn't make that catch on that underthrown pass from his back foot.  did you see the WR slow down there ?  putrid weak arm sh*t right there

are you for real here ?

 

 

 

Ignoring the point I see. 

[Larz]

villian I will give you 5 QBs to rank that never played in the same offense with the same weapons.  can you rank them 1-5 for me ?

matt ryan

sam bradford

joe flacco

russell wilson

eli manning

 

[Jetsfan80]

@nyjunc made a very valid point. Why can we not appreciate our wins yet not criticize players? Thats what I did with my initial post. You guys made it out to be the worst thing since the Vernon Gholston draft. 

Why can we criticize Geno Smith with every win (though wonder about Geno after every Eagles loss) yet not criticize what we see with Fitz? No one is saying that they want to see him replaced, but for the same reasons why I just gave you the "you're right dog" comments, it seems like nothing can be said about Fitz yet people throw up the "Oh come on" when its obvious that Fitz can do no wrong because he cant be criticized for valid reasons. 

I'm not saying you cannot be critical.  But for weeks we had people calling for Geno to start.  Those same people refuse to credit Fitzpatrick's play in any way for our wins so far.  Of all weeks we thought this would be the one where that nonsense would be gone, but its not.  We get it, his arm isn't strong and he's made some bad throws as a result.  That isn't changing anytime soon.  What else you got?  And what do you hope to accomplish with the criticism?

 

[Villain The Foe]

And after 4 straight years of missing the playoffs and basically being a non-competitive football team, does this possibility not excite you at least a little? 

Of course it does, because I know that THIS TEAM is good enough to make it there. You telling me that Fitz would have walked into the playoffs with that 2014 team? 

 

 

[joewilly12]

I'm not saying you cannot be critical.  But for weeks we had people calling for Geno to start.  Those same people refuse to credit Fitzpatrick's play in any way for our wins so far.  Of all weeks we thought this would be the one where that nonsense would be gone, but its not.  We get it, his arm isn't strong.  That isn't changing anytime soon.  What do you hope to accomplish with the criticism?

I was one of those guys Fitz is playing well and getting the job done we are 4-1 something to be happy about. 

[Jetsfan80]

Of course it does, because I know that THIS TEAM is good enough to make it there. You telling me that Fitz would have walked into the playoffs with that 2014 team? 

Of course not.  But I am saying that he would have done better than Geno or Michael Vick with that team.  And I am saying he's the best guy to lead us this year. 

[Villain The Foe]

I'm not saying you cannot be critical.  But for weeks we had people calling for Geno to start.  Those same people refuse to credit Fitzpatrick's play in any way for our wins so far.  

 

I deleted everything because I want to concentrate on this very statement of yours. Are you saying that I was one of those harping for Geno to start and benching Fitz? If your answer is "yes" I will gladly show you a months worth of past quotes disproving that. If your answer is "no" then my next question is...what does that have to do with my current criticism of him? 

[nyjunc]

Pennington threw it downfield, then it got picked off and returned for 6.

He had an issue w/ pick 6's in 2007.  a year he played hurt and we had no OL(which led to the 2008 spending spree on the OL).

pre 2007 he only had 2 pick 6's in his Jet career.

[Larz]

Ignoring the point I see. 

nah just joking at the weak arm crowd and the smith threads. I gotta go now.  

it is very obvious that for all of his shortcomings, fitz is a better NFL QB right now than geno is, and that is based on a great many things, while taking into account the offense and team around him.  if fitz goes down, I hope geno comes in and leads the jets to 5 superbowls.  I don't hate geno or want him cut traded or dropped into the east river

you will notice I didn't throw around any stats, just what I see with my eyes.  

full disclosure - fitz is not perfect and is not the sole reason the offense is better this year

is was fun debating with you I was really bored, lol

 

[Jetsfan80]

I deleted everything because I want to concentrate on this very statement of yours. Are you saying that I was one of those harping for Geno to start and benching Fitz? If your answer is "yes" I will gladly show you a months worth of past quotes disproving that. If your answer is "no" then my next question is...what does that have to do with my current criticism of him? 

There are several others in this thread who were calling for it; I wasn't specifically counting you in that number.  But you were also the first to respond in this thread with negativity towards Fitzpatrick.  So it is more than valid for me to ask what you hope/hoped to accomplish by coming in and basically sh*tting on the starting QB when there was very little reason to do so at this point in time.

I recognize we'll have people doing that any time he has a bad game.  That's to be expected.  But after a very good game where he threw for 2 TD's and rushed for another one, especially looking sharp in the 2nd half of the game when it counted most?  Just makes little sense.  Everyone is well aware of his limitations by now. 

 

 

[nyjunc]

The other thing about Pennington was he was a STATUE.  Not saying Fitz is a 2004 Vick but he at least has some pocket awareness and mobility.

Fitz is a better athlete and better running no doubt but Chad has good footwork, his lack of running ability didn't hurt us at all.  he was a much better passer than Fitz so he didn't need to run.

[Villain The Foe]

Of course not.  But I am saying that he would have done better than Geno or Michael Vick with that team.  And I am saying he's the best guy to lead us this year. 

And im saying that you dont know that. FItz played on a much better team than the Jets last year and he went 6-6 before his injury. And outside of such a broad comparison, you dont know what he would have been like under such putrid coaching...just like you dont know what Geno would be like under this type of coaching. 

 

Even if you disagree with all that i've said given that I've been arguing by myself here (lol) why wont you simply acknowledge the fact that you dont know? Is it because if you admit that you dont now then everything else I said about comparing a Geno Smith that no one knows in this scheme would also then be valid? 

[nyjunc]

There are several others in this thread who were calling for it; I wasn't specifically counting you in that number.  But you were also the first to respond in this thread with negativity towards Fitzpatrick.  So it is more than valid for me to ask what you hope/hoped to accomplish by coming in and basically sh*tting on the starting QB when there was very little reason to do so at this point in time.

 

from my point of view I was not calling for Geno, I am happy w/ where we are but I can still have some criticism of the job Fitz has done and I defend geno based on people acting like Geno has been the only difference in the O. 

[Jetsfan80]

And im saying that you dont know that. FItz played on a much better team than the Jets last year and he went 6-6 before his injury. And outside of such a broad comparison, you dont know what he would have been like under such putrid coaching...just like you dont know what Geno would be like under this type of coaching. 

Even if you disagree with all that i've said given that I've been arguing by myself here (lol) why wont you simply acknowledge the fact that you dont know? Is it because if you admit that you dont now then everything else I said about comparing a Geno Smith that no one knows in this scheme would also then be valid? 

Because I prefer to argue about reality.  The reality is that when watching Fitz play, he looks better than Geno.  He looks like he has the confidence of the team.  He doesn't throw pick 6's.  He doesn't sulk on the bench.  He runs the ball efficiently when needed and in each of our wins he's led us on scoring drives just when we needed it.  His numbers are better and that's not JUST because the talent around him improved; he himself is playing like a professional QB and looks the part of a true leader that Geno has never been.  Those are all important factors for a QB independent of outside circumstances.  Brandon Marshall would never help Geno become a guy who can lead.  Only Geno can become a leader, and all evidence suggest he is not ready to be one.

So what's more likely?  That we have the best QB under center right now as we sit at 4-1?  Or that the healthy QB the coaching staff saw fit to keep on the bench would secretly be better than the guy who is helping us win games?  The numbers, eye test, and coaching staff are all on my side on this one.  You have an opinion and I have mine.  But I'm happy to be right on this one, and am happy today after celebrating another Jet win. 

 

[drdetroit]

Fitz is a better athlete and better running no doubt but Chad has good footwork, his lack of running ability didn't hurt us at all.  he was a much better passer than Fitz so he didn't need to run.

Fitz has thrown 23 or more td's 3x in his career and #4 is probably this season.  Guess how many times Chaddy cakes did that?

 

Better passer my balls

 

[Villain The Foe]

Because I prefer to argue about reality.  The reality is that when watching Fitz play, he looks better than Geno.  He looks like he has the confidence of the team.  He doesn't throw pick 6's.  He doesn't sulk on the bench.  So what's more likely?  That we have the best QB under center right now as we sit at 4-1?  Or that the healthy QB the coaching staff saw fit to keep on the bench would secretly be better than the guy who is helping us win games?  The numbers, eye test, and coaching staff are all on my side on this one.

Dude, how do you in one breathe say that you prefer to argue about reality then make the argument that Fitz would have done better than Geno/Vick last year? This is the double speak that I've been calling out this entire thread and no one is catching on because the moment I point it out the response is "4-1" which is just a way to try to shut me down. 

Of course watching Fitz play "now" he looks better than Geno of yesteryear. However, comparing the two isnt reality based on the fact that you're not comparing both players and their performance with current teams. 

[Integrity28]

He had an issue w/ pick 6's in 2007.  a year he played hurt and we had no OL(which led to the 2008 spending spree on the OL).

pre 2007 he only had 2 pick 6's in his Jet career.

Yes, I know. It was a wise crack Mr. Reading101

[Jetsfan80]

Dude, how do you in one breathe say that you prefer to argue about reality then make the argument that Fitz would have done better than Geno/Vick last year? This is the double speak that I've been calling out this entire thread and no one is catching on because the moment I point it out the response is "4-1" which is just a way to try to shut me down. 

Of course watching Fitz play "now" he looks better than Geno of yesteryear. However, comparing the two isnt reality based on the fact that you're not comparing both players and their performance with current teams. 

Rarely do you get the opportunity to compare 2 QB's side by side with the same exact circumstances.  But its very clear the GM who brought Fitz in and the HC who continues to start him have no intentions of putting Geno back in.  And Fitz's track record that spans a decade has suggested throughout his career that he's better than Geno.  The only argument people had to dispute this claim was by saying that Geno had an 8-8 season (a flawed argument given that we were outscored by 97 points that year; more realistically we should have been about 6-10 or worse).  Even the weapons argument didn't fly, because Fitz has had seasons with equally bad weapons around him and still performed.  Just look at those Buffalo teams from 2010-2012. 

Given all the information at hand, yes, I can say with confidence that Fitz would have done better than Geno/Vick last year, because he's the better QB.  I've seen both play, and Fitz is better.  It's that simple.  I don't need to see Geno paired with Marshall to know that to be true.  And any attempt to argue against it requires a lot more faith in the unknown than the position from which I'm arguing.

 

 

[nyjunc]

Fitz has thrown 23 or more td's 3x in his career and #4 is probably this season.  Guess how many times Chaddy cakes did that?

 

Better passer my balls

 

He threw 23, 24 and 24 TDs while w/ Buffalo while winning a total of 14 games in those 3 seasons.  he also threw 23 INts in one of the 24 TD seasons.

441, 569 and 505 were his attempts those 3 years.  Chad attempted more than 400 passes twice in a season.  prorate those attempts in 2002 and he has 24 TDs, 31TDs & 28 TDs

the 2 seasons he had more than 400 pass attempts? he led NYJ to 10 wins and a playoff app and Miami to 11 wins and a playoff app

 

Just b/c Fitz has passed more in QB friendly offenses does not make him a better passer.  there is a reason Chad played for 2 teams and Fitz plays for a new team every year.

[Integrity28]

from my point of view I was not calling for Geno, I am happy w/ where we are but I can still have some criticism of the job Fitz has done and I defend geno based on people acting like Geno has been the only difference in the O. 

That's the thing... there's NOBODY arguing that swapping Fitz for Geno is the only difference.

So, once again:

You argue with people constantly for things that weren't printed or said, because you seem to think your own misinterpretation is everyone's misinterpretation. 

[nyjunc]

That's the thing... there's NOBODY arguing that swapping Fitz for Geno is the only difference.

So, once again:

You argue with people constantly for things that weren't printed or said, because you seem to think your own misinterpretation is everyone's misinterpretation. 

I ask again, if marshall was the only difference at WR don't you think that is a HUGE difference?

[ZachEY]

Because a thread is made on it every week. 

And your tl;dr novellas have helped that how exactly?

[56mehl56]

the bottom line of this thread is that Jets fans will always have something to whine about

You mean like the ones who whine about fans whining. 

[Jetsfan80]

And your tl;dr novellas have helped that how exactly?

Time to change your username to Conquering hEYro!

[56mehl56]

Based upon what we've seen Enunwa, Owusu and Devin Smith are minimal parts of the offense so far. None of them are stud, and none of them are going to "make the QB better". 

Decker played with Geno. So did Kerley.

That leaves Marshall as the only WR that would help hide, or improve Geno, by default... like I said in my response, which you clearly must've had a hard time comprehending. As usual.

Missing one big component , the HC . Addition by subtraction , Watch as Rex gets Greg Roman fired up in Buffalo. 

[jetscrazey]

You mean like the ones who whine about fans whining. 

EXACTLY!!!!

[56mehl56]

I was one of those guys Fitz is playing well and getting the job done we are 4-1 something to be happy about. 

I was as well and am very happy to be at 4-1.  That won't stop me from criticizing Fitz if he performs poorly and I'll gladly eat crow if he plays well. 

[56mehl56]

Fitz has thrown 23 or more td's 3x in his career and #4 is probably this season.  Guess how many times Chaddy cakes did that?

 

Better passer my balls

 

Jets have had defensive minded HC's including (Mangini/Herm/Rex) for over a decade now. Let's not go comparing offensive stats with other teams w/o taking that into consideration.

[Integrity28]

Missing one big component , the HC . Addition by subtraction , Watch as Rex gets Greg Roman fired up in Buffalo. 

No. 

The context of the specific post I responded to was "this group of WRs". Only the WRs were being discussed, and that's all I responded to. Since I was correct in what I said about the WRs, some people have tried to crack it open into a broader context included coaches, coordinators, breakfast foods, boxers or briefs, etc.

 

[56mehl56]

No. 

The context of the specific post I responded to was "this group of WRs". Only the WRs were being discussed, and that's all I responded to. Since I was correct in what I said about the WRs, some people have tried to crack it open into a broader context included coaches, coordinators, breakfast foods, boxers or briefs, etc.

 

Ok, wasn't following the complete thread.  But still have to feel A healthy Decker, Marshall , Smith/Enumwa/Kerley is a lot better than An injured Decker/Kerley/Nelson/Harvin.

[nyjunc]

Ok, wasn't following the complete thread.  But still have to feel A healthy Decker, Marshall , Smith/Enumwa/Kerley is a lot better than An injured Decker/Kerley/Nelson/Harvin.

Kerley was our #2 last year, now he cannot get on the field.  moving the marshall issue to the side(even though him alone upgrades the WRs by a wide margin), all we really need to know about the difference from last year to this year is about Kerley.  so much changed w/ this offense and w/ our WRs.

[Integrity28]

Ok, wasn't following the complete thread.  But still have to feel A healthy Decker, Marshall , Smith/Enumwa/Kerley is a lot better than An injured Decker/Kerley/Nelson/Harvin.

Without questions, if for no other reason: Marshall

Still, if you waste the time to read back, you'll see I point out that Marshall isn't going to make Geno better at all the aspects of playing QB. He can hide a lot, but not everything.

Same applies to Fitz, and there're tangibles and intangibles with Fitz where he's just downright better for the team.