Eagles fans/media worried about Sanchez

[jetrider]

What exactly did I lose?  In order to lose in the debate you've constructed, I'd have to be arguing that Ryan Fitzpatrick's Jets went further in and into the playoffs than Mark Sanchez's Jets.  I am not doing that.  I did however continue your logic to other players and how far they went in the playoffs.  You dismissed it largely because it didn't fit with your narrative, and instead made this as narrow an argument as you could.  So, again, to play by your rules.  Mark Sanchez was more successful than Ryan Fitzpatrick when success is defined exclusively as how far a Jets team in recent history went.

That's all it is.  And to put Mark on a team he never played for and compare him to e.g., Rex Grossman is pointless. Or Dilfer ... or Collins ... or ...

[ZachEY]

That's all it is.  And to put Mark on a team he never played for and compare him to e.g., Rex Grossman is pointless. Or Dilfer ... or Collins ... or ...

As is the entire debate as you've constructed it.  No one is arguing that Fitz is more successful than Sanchez when success is defined by who's team went further.

[ZachEY]

Mark Sanchez was, at the time, a clutch (wildcard/divisional round) playoff QB.

SAR I

 

While I still don't agree with this edit, at least be accurate.

[cant wait]

As is the entire debate as you've constructed it.  No one is arguing that Fitz is more successful than Sanchez when success is defined by who's team went further.

which is really the only measure of success that actually means something. Unless you're impressed by a guy who can pad his stats against the softest teams in the league 

[ZachEY]

which is really the only measure of success that actually means something. Unless you're impressed by a guy who can pad his stats against the softest teams in the league 

So, would you also accept that Eric Smith was more successful than Calvin Pryor?  Smith's Jets have gone further than Priors.

How do you feel about Brandon Marshall?

[Mogglez]

which is really the only measure of success that actually means something. Unless you're impressed by a guy who can pad his stats against the softest teams in the league 

So then by that argument, EY was right when he said Rex Grossman>Mark Sanchez.  That's where that logic falls apart, because even I don't believe that to be true.

[ZachEY]

So then by that argument, EY was right when he said Rex Grossman>Mark Sanchez.  That's where that logic falls apart, because even I don't believe that to be true.

It only counts if the players were on the same team (even though rosters changed dramatically) within a few years of each other.  Because the only experimental control that matters is uniform color, city, and nickname.

[cant wait]

So, would you also accept that Eric Smith was more successful than Calvin Pryor?  Smith's Jets have gone further than Priors.

How do you feel about Brandon Marshall?

a SS doesn't have nearly the impact that a QB does but nice try. Marshall did a great job however turning inaccurate weakly thrown passes from fitzpatrick into TD's though

[Rangers9]

There was a trend recently to start rookie Qbs their first season. After many years of mostly giving them a few seasons to acclimate. Mark was definitely not ready and Schotty had to scale back the offense in 2009 so he could run it at least satisfactorily. The problem was two seasons later Mark was still not ready to be a full service throwing Qb. He could operate ok as a game manager. But the Jets had drafted him to be a franchise Qb and that's what they expected from him. As for Geno he started his first year, too. Maybe if Mark hadn't of been injured he would have started over Geno. That was what we were hearing during training camp in 2013. That Geno wasn't ready to start.The thing is that in the second half of 2011 and 2012 Mark was so bad that imo he'd lost the starting job. And it was hard to think of seeing him come back as the Jets starter after the previous season and a half. Plus Idzik failed to bring in a capable vet Qb who could start after Sanchez was injured.. He brought in Garrard who himself was injured and hadn't played in several years which was a fiasco because he had to at least temporarily retire. If not injured Garrard would have been a very good choice to be our starter in 2013 not Geno.  Then Geno had a good last 5 games and solidified his position as Jets starter for 2014. But like Mark he didn't live up to it.

[cant wait]

So then by that argument, EY was right when he said Rex Grossman>Mark Sanchez.  That's where that logic falls apart, because even I don't believe that to be true.

grossman got to a super bowl, honestly that's more than Sanchez has done in his career. They are a pretty good comparison in my eyes

[section314]

grossman got to a super bowl, honestly that's more than Sanchez has done in his career. They are a pretty good comparison in my eyes

Did you ever see Grossman play? He may be one of the worst starting Qb's in this league in the last 20 years. The fact that this thread is going on 17 pages now with people talking about the" Sanchez  days"  like they are the golden years tells you just how big a failure this team has been for 45 years. And this is from somebody going on 37 years of season tickets.

[ZachEY]

a SS doesn't have nearly the impact that a QB does but nice try. Marshall did a great job however turning inaccurate weakly thrown passes from fitzpatrick into TD's though

Ok.  So, I just need to understand exactly how narrow this argument is.  The answer is as narrow as possible.

What we've learned is that when comparing QBs, you can only do so for QBs on the same team, reasonably close in time period, and base that comparison only on which QB's team went further.

That is what I learned here.  It does raise a question about how I know that Tom Brady > Mark Sanchez, as they were on different teams.  And since I can't compare Rex Grossman to Mark Sanchez, I can't compare Tom Brady either.

[ZachEY]

grossman got to a super bowl, honestly that's more than Sanchez has done in his career. They are a pretty good comparison in my eyes

I'd agree.  However, I was clearly and in no uncertain terms told that it was not a meaningful comparison.  Something like Apples and Tomatoes...

[ZachEY]

Did you ever see Grossman play? He may be one of the worst starting Qb's in this league in the last 20 years. The fact that this thread is going on 17 pages now with people talking about the" Sanchez  days"  like they are the golden years tells you just how big a failure this team has been for 45 years. And this is from somebody going on 37 years of season tickets.

I tried making this point too... It won't work.

[SAR I]

While I still don't agree with this edit, at least be accurate.

Mark Sanchez was the best Jet on the field in two AFC Championship Games.  I'm not saying that's some great accomplishment, but it's factual.  Revis, Harris, Tomlinson, Greene, Smith, you can't find a Jet that played better than Mark in the biggest games we've played since 1998.  Kill the guy for other things if you must disrespect Jets history, but not this.

SAR I

[SAR I]

These toolbuckets here only care about Fizz's individual stats. Mark would've showed up at Buffalo.

I agree.  Mark Sanchez circa December 2010 would have punched Buffalo's lights out last month, no different than he did marching into Pittsburgh and crushing the Steelers.  Mark Sanchez 2010 on the 2015 Jets would have gone on to the Super Bowl.  Unfortunately, it's not 2010 and in a lengthy career Ryan Fitzpatrick has yet to show that he's Mark Sanchez 2010 either.

SAR I

[SAR I]

The fact that this thread is going on 17 pages now with people talking about the" Sanchez  days"  like they are the golden years tells you just how big a failure this team has been for 45 years. And this is from somebody going on 37 years of season tickets.

The true tragedy of Mark Sanchez is that due to mishandling by his head coach and GM we will never know what might have been.

What we do know is that in August 2011 we were a legitimate elite team, we had come off of a stretch where we had gone on an 18-4 run, we'd won 4 road playoff games, and we were confident we were set at the QB position for a decade.  In typical SOJ fashion, we took the most important position on the field and disregarded it, focused all our efforts on the stupid defense, and may have let the best player we drafted since Namath slip through our fingers out of sheer selfishness and neglect.

SAR I

[jetrider]

grossman got to a super bowl, honestly that's more than Sanchez has done in his career. They are a pretty good comparison in my eyes

Albeit a totally unrelated one.

Still, using that comparison, Grossman is way better than Fitz than he's better than Sanchez. So is Chandler, Humphries, Collins, ... etc. 

Has nothing to do with this topic.

[jetrider]

I agree.  Mark Sanchez circa December 2010 would have punched Buffalo's lights out last month, no different than he did marching into Pittsburgh and crushing the Steelers.  Mark Sanchez 2010 on the 2015 Jets would have gone on to the Super Bowl.  Unfortunately, it's not 2010 and in a lengthy career Ryan Fitzpatrick has yet to show that he's Mark Sanchez 2010 either.

SAR I

Nutz, Nozzlez, and puppets don't get that. It goes in one ear and out the other. Super Fitz is a playoff virgin entering his 12th year! Lmao.

These mental thickheads have been arguing for 16 pages that Fitz showed more than Sanchez. Unreal.

[AFJF]

These toolbuckets here only care about Fizz's individual stats. Mark would've showed up at Buffalo.

Like he did in Pittsburgh?

[SAR I]

Nutz, Nozzlez, and puppets don't get that. It goes in one ear and out the other. Super Fitz is a playoff virgin entering his 12th year! Lmao.

These mental thickheads have been arguing for 16 pages that Fitz showed more than Sanchez. Unreal.

Certainly Fitzpatrick didn't show more than Sanchez did, but at this point does it matter?  Sanchez isn't coming back, if he did he looks way more than damaged goods.  Time to get on the Petty bandwagon as we enter a year with Fitzpatrick on a short contract. 

The good news is that with the sole exception of one Tom Brady, there are no scary QB's in the AFC any more.  Draft another QB, groom Petty, see if Fitz can break through, and hope we can eke out the 5 seed and make some noise before the AFCCG showdown in New England.  That's the script, let's all get onboard and let Sanchez go.

SAR I

[section314]

Certainly Fitzpatrick didn't show more than Sanchez did, but at this point does it matter?  Sanchez isn't coming back, if he did he looks way more than damaged goods.  Time to get on the Petty bandwagon as we enter a year with Fitzpatrick on a short contract. 

The good news is that with the sole exception of one Tom Brady, there are no scary QB's in the AFC any more.  Draft another QB, groom Petty, see if Fitz can break through, and hope we can eke out the 5 seed and make some noise before the AFCCG showdown in New England.  That's the script, let's all get onboard and let Sanchez go.

SAR I

Big Ben is still pretty scary. Other than that, think you are pretty much spot on here.

[SAR I]

Big Ben is still pretty scary. Other than that, think you are pretty much spot on here.

He is, but he can't stay healthy, he always loses a few stupid games along the way, and he lost to the 2014 Jets which says a lot too.  Big picture, Pittsburgh doesn't play good defense and their running game is suspect, lots of bad penalties too.  But, yeah, the AFC QB Fear Factor List looks like this:

Brady

Roethlisberger

Luck

I can't put Bortles up there, Flacco could arise from the ashes, Smith is nobody.  Funny though it may seem, I think Ryan Fitzpatrick is a Top 5 AFC quarterback these days.

SAR I

[jetrider]

Like he did in Pittsburgh?

You avoid common sense like it's nerve gas. How about like he did at Indy (vs Peyton) and Foxboro (vs Brady)? Those teams, along with Pitt, had everything to play for.

Your playoff virgin Fitz couldn't get past a battered Buffalo team with Tyroid-who?-Taylor playing for nothing in Week 17. 

 

As is the entire debate as you've constructed it.  No one is arguing that Fitz is more successful than Sanchez when success is defined by who's team went further.

 Try this:

Fitz had a much better year than anything Mark had all things considered.

I assume "all things considered" covers all angles.

[jetrider]

Certainly Fitzpatrick didn't show more than Sanchez did, but at this point does it matter?  Sanchez isn't coming back, if he did he looks way more than damaged goods.  Time to get on the Petty bandwagon as we enter a year with Fitzpatrick on a short contract. 

The good news is that with the sole exception of one Tom Brady, there are no scary QB's in the AFC any more.  Draft another QB, groom Petty, see if Fitz can break through, and hope we can eke out the 5 seed and make some noise before the AFCCG showdown in New England.  That's the script, let's all get onboard and let Sanchez go.

SAR I

Yeah, I said that a couple pages back. I'm looking forward to seeing how Fitz answers after laying a dud. Hope we're mostly healthy next season too.

[Jet9]

17 pages on Sanchez, lol. I love you, Jets fans. 

[SAR I]

Yeah, I said that a couple pages back. I'm looking forward to seeing how Fitz answers after laying a dud. Hope we're mostly healthy next season too.

Let's not be too hard on Ryan Fitzpatrick about the Buffalo loss please. 

If he completes that slant in the end zone to Decker for the TD, we be praising his comeback ability. The Buffalo game was not much different than the Dallas game, the Giants game, or the Patriots game where he did basically nothing for a half and then exploded late. 

We lost the Buffalo game because our defense could not stop lengthy drives or give us decent field position, and our head coach did not have the players prepared or sharp getting off the bus.  Our quarterback was not our biggest problem that Sunday. 

SAR I

[AFJF]

You avoid common sense like it's nerve gas. How about like he did at Indy (vs Peyton) and Foxboro (vs Brady)? Those teams, along with Pitt, had everything to play for.

Your playoff virgin Fitz couldn't get past a battered Buffalo team with Tyroid-who?-Taylor playing for nothing in Week 17. 

 

 Try this:

I assume "all things considered" covers all angles.

I wasn't talking about Fitz, I was talking about Sanchez.  If he wasn't the worst QB in the NFL, they'd have had a shot against Pittsburgh.  Too bad he was.

[jetrider]

I wasn't talking about Fitz, I was talking about Sanchez.  If he wasn't the worst QB in the NFL, they'd have had a shot against Pittsburgh.  Too bad he was.

Did you watch the game? Jets would've won if Brick bothered to make contact with Ike Taylor on 3rd & 17.

[AFJF]

Did you watch the game? Jets would've won if Brick bothered to make contact with Ike Taylor on 3rd & 17.

Somebody else's fault...again...shocking.

 

 

[jetrider]

Let's not be too hard on Ryan Fitzpatrick about the Buffalo loss please. 

If he completes that slant in the end zone to Decker for the TD, we be praising his comeback ability. The Buffalo game was not much different than the Dallas game, the Giants game, or the Patriots game where he did basically nothing for a half and then exploded late. 

We lost the Buffalo game because our defense could not stop lengthy drives or give us decent field position, and our head coach did not have the players prepared or sharp getting off the bus.  Our quarterback was not our biggest problem that Sunday. 

SAR I

Yes he was. We should've blown the Bills out. How much can a D do when our first four drives ended abruptly with punts?

Then we couldn't finish drives 1st & 10 from the BUF 22 and 1st & 10 from the BUF 23. That's 8 points right there left on the field.

Our last three drives were aborted by INTs. Funny, if that was any other Jet QB - particularly Sanchez - he'd be crucified.

[jetrider]

Somebody else's fault...again...shocking.

 

If that was Fitz The Virgin you'd blame the defense for giving up 17 points in the first half.

[AFJF]

If that was Fitz The Virgin you'd blame the defense for giving up 24 points in the first half.

Sure, why not invent hypotheticals when the facts aren't what you want them to be.  

[jetrider]

Sure, why not invent hypotheticals when the facts aren't what you want them to be.  

I know the facts and I'm not disputing them.

[AFJF]

I know the facts and I'm not disputing them.

I'm referring to your made up scenario in which I would blame the defense if Fitz were to hand an opposing team a touchdown by not protecting the football.