D'Brickashaw Ferguson: What Is Jets Succession Plan?

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

they were also the 2nd best rushing team according to FO. 

No, they weren't.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok so Buffalo coached by our former HC Rex Ryan knew where all the weaknesses were and beat the Jets twice. Rex knew this team better than Bowles. He's also had historical success against Fitz... who used to play for Houston. Another team who knew the Jets personnel better than the Jets. The Texans knew Fitz' weaknesses. None of this has anything to do with the quality of the OL. 

 

in fact in this league the OL is just not that important anymore. I'll say it again the Broncos tackles were abysmal level bad by the end of the season yet they all have super bowl rings. The Pats OL was a sieve, at one point they started their 4th string LT Cameron Fleming and even moved center Bryan Stork out to RT. Yet they still won the East, handily. 

The Jets OL isn't perfect but it's certainly good enough to win.

If we are being real the positions that isn't good enough is QB. That's what we should be talking about upgrading. And I'm a fan of Fitz, probably the best QB we've seen since Chad. Signing a big money RT and drafting a first round LT are just moving deck chairs on the titanic. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, those moves don't change the calculus. 

So now Rex Ryan knows our offense better than our own coaching staff? Rex the offensive guru?

Bit, Brick sucks. Really, he's a liability now on the field and is sucking up the $ of a good starter at LT or elsewhere on the team. His production wouldn't be acceptable if he was making 1/10 what he's due to get. 

He's a barely average (and very often below average) pass blocker, and he's just about the worst run-blocking tackle in the game. Possibly the single worst but it hardly matters when you're that bad. 

That was last year, which was better than he'll be next season. He's been getting noticeably worse every year for 5 years straight, and he'll be even worse in 2016 than his horrible 2015 season.

And you want him for another season at a $9M salary. 

 

[Tinstar]

27 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Ok so Buffalo coached by our former HC Rex Ryan knew where all the weaknesses were and beat the Jets twice. Rex knew this team better than Bowles. He's also had historical success against Fitz... who used to play for Houston. Another team who knew the Jets personnel better than the Jets. The Texans knew Fitz' weaknesses. None of this has anything to do with the quality of the OL. 

 

in fact in this league the OL is just not that important anymore. I'll say it again the Broncos tackles were abysmal level bad by the end of the season yet they all have super bowl rings. The Pats OL was a sieve, at one point they started their 4th string LT Cameron Fleming and even moved center Bryan Stork out to RT. Yet they still won the East, handily. 

The Jets OL isn't perfect but it's certainly good enough to win.

If we are being real the positions that isn't good enough is QB. That's what we should be talking about upgrading. And I'm a fan of Fitz, probably the best QB we've seen since Chad. Signing a big money RT and drafting a first round LT are just moving deck chairs on the titanic. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, those moves don't change the calculus. 

For the love of God man, would you just watch the game tape. The guy is chasing his man on 90% of his snaps . He's done Bit . I'm sorry, but it's the truth .

[bitonti]

29 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

No, they weren't.

sorry i got that wrong, actually the 3rd best pass pro line

the Rams were rated first which tells you how terrible these stats are, in general. 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So now Rex Ryan knows our offense better than our own coaching staff? Rex the offensive guru?

Bit, Brick sucks. Really, he's a liability now on the field and is sucking up the $ of a good starter at LT or elsewhere on the team. His production wouldn't be acceptable if he was making 1/10 what he's due to get. 

He's a barely average (and very often below average) pass blocker, and he's just about the worst run-blocking tackle in the game. Possibly the single worst but it hardly matters when you're that bad. 

That was last year, which was better than he'll be next season. He's been getting noticeably worse every year for 5 years straight, and he'll be even worse in 2016 than his horrible 2015 season.

And you want him for another season at a $9M salary. 

 

The scenario I want to avoid is the Jets reaching for need because they cut their 10 year starting LT and didn't have even a backup level alternative on the roster. Need picks are where mistakes are made.

 I understand where Brick is in his career, but replacing him is either a high draft pick or a multi-year project.  this idea they can cut Brick (absorbing like 5 mil dead money) and sign a cheap better replacement, and somehow be in better cap shape, is not going to happen. That player doesn't exist.

Or alternatively forced into drafting a Conklin type 10-20 slots early and hoping he can be a day 1 LT starter. Even great LTs are often shaky as rookies. 

And yes Rex knew how to defeat Ryan Fitzpatrick. He knew how to do that when Fitz was on the Bills. Tinstar wanted to know why the Jets lost to Houston and Buffalo and the reason is not the offensive line. 

[SenorGato]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

sorry i got that wrong, actually the 3rd best pass pro line

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Yeah, already discussed this. They've never been that high in D'Brick's decade as a Jets player, and this should go on Fitzpatrick. How do you even confuse third in pass pro with second in rushing? 

[peebag]

35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

in fact in this league the OL is just not that important anymore. I'll say it again the Broncos tackles were abysmal level bad by the end of the season yet they all have super bowl rings. The Pats OL was a sieve, at one point they started their 4th string LT Cameron Fleming and even moved center Bryan Stork out to RT. Yet they still won the East, handily. 

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Ryan Fitzpatrick

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I understand where Brick is in his career, but replacing him is either a high draft pick or a multi-year project. 

Fortunately for this scenario, his play has dropped off so much that replacing him during those in-betweem days/years probably won't be so hard.

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, peebag said:

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

You're exactly right.

Fitzpatrick isn't at retirement age, nor is he a broken down, shell of his former self.

[bitonti]

37 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

  How do you even confuse third in pass pro with second in rushing? 

later in the article they say that rushing around the right end position is ranked 2nd in the NFL. That's Breno presumably. Unless we are saying Cumberland is some amazing run blocker. 

[bitonti]

35 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Fortunately for this scenario, his play has dropped off so much that replacing him during those in-betweem days/years probably won't be so hard.

Brick's level of play and the difficulty replacing him are not related. Unless you'll be happy with a player who's just as terrible as Brick, just cheaper. 

[bitonti]

41 minutes ago, peebag said:

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Ryan Fitzpatrick

exactly which is why debating the LT all offseason is meaningless. The Jets should have no obvious holes on the roster before the draft, and hope a true difference maker drops to 20. Maybe Paxton Lynch is that player. Maybe it's a stud OLB. The scenario I want to avoid is the Jets drafting a left tackle early because they have no starter on the roster. 

[peebag]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

exactly which is why debating the LT all offseason is meaningless. The Jets should have no obvious holes on the roster before the draft, and hope a true difference maker drops to 20. Maybe Paxton Lynch is that player. Maybe it's a stud OLB. The scenario I want to avoid is the Jets drafting a left tackle early because they have no starter on the roster. 

 

No - the issue is that Denver and New England have HOF qbs that can over compensate for poor OL play - the Jets don't have that luxury.

I'm fine with the Jets going into next season with D'brick still starting but for god sakes the combination of Giacomini and Winters holding down the right side scares the bejebus out me and probably Fitz as well. 

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Brick's level of play and the difficulty replacing him are not related. 

Oh, OK, if you insist on saying so this must be true,

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

If we are being real the positions that isn't good enough is QB. That's what we should be talking about upgrading. And I'm a fan of Fitz, probably the best QB we've seen since Chad. Signing a big money RT and drafting a first round LT are just moving deck chairs on the titanic. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, those moves don't change the calculus. 

Hot Take!  We need to get better at QB?  Someone get Woody Johnson on the phone!

[RutgersJetFan]

14 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Hot Take!  We need to get better at QB?  Someone get Woody Johnson on the phone!

I too think we should find a quarterback.

[jetfuel]

19 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Having a body at a position doesn't mean that you don't have a hole. Does anyone think that the vast majority of those future contracts will be a part of the final roster ?

I didn't say that they have the answer on the roster as of now. As a matter of fact, I said the exact opposite by suggesting that they need to find the answer in free agency or the draft.  "With no viable option ready to replace Ferguson on the team as of now, it would make sense for the Jets to explore the free agent market to find someone to mold into his all-important role."  That doesn't necessarily mean that no one currently on the team could eventually step up to the plate, but none of them have proven anything to this point. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Oh, OK, if you insist on saying so this must be true,

like when you say Mitchell Schwartz and Andre Smith can play LT 

[SenorGato]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

like when you say Mitchell Schwartz and Andre Smith can play LT 

I spoke too soon about Smith, maybe - basically did't know about concussions, but I have full confidence Schwartz's abilities surpassD'Brick as both a pass and run blocker these days.

Not that this has anything to do with your belief that D'Brick's massive decline still, somehow, has nothing to do with being able to replace. Of course it does, if anything declines in performance significantly enough then finding an upgrade is easier, not something to be held off because emotions and feelings.

[jetfuel]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I spoke too soon about Smith, maybe - basically did't know about concussions, but I have full confidence Schwartz's abilities surpassD'Brick as both a pass and run blocker these days.

Although you are right about him being a better blocker at this point in their careers, I find it hard to envision Schwartz starting at LT, as he is a prototypical RT. He would be a great replacement for Giacomini though.

[SenorGato]

15 minutes ago, jetfuel said:

Although you are right about him being a better blocker at this point in their careers, I find it hard to envision Schwartz starting at LT, as he is a prototypical RT. He would be a great replacement for Giacomini though.

The prototypical RT is the prototypical LT and vice versa. Lane Johnson, Bryan Bulaga, Brandon Scherff, younger Andre Smith, Sebastian Vollmer, DJ Humphries in Arizona, Lewan in Tennessee....the position's been going that way all decade. Schwartz has the size, the technique, a strong NFL resume, and best of all would be getting a massive raise if he makes even half of what D'Brick's 2016 cap hit.

Actually....:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/16207/profootballfocus-rates-mitchell-schwartz-the-nfls-best-right-tackle

You know who Schwartz reads like as a decent run blocker and strong pass blocker? Prime D'Brick, had the exact same reputation - never a top tier T, but could pass block really well and not kill you in the run game.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

The prototypical RT is the prototypical LT and vice versa.

If that's true, no one told the agents. 

http://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

http://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle/

The only RT that is being paid LT money is Lane Johnson, who was an elite draft pick and is going to be the LT of the future when Peters retires. All the other RT make about half as much as the equivalent LT. 

 

[Savage69]

7 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Can Muhammed Willerson play both LT and OLB?

Mo can play any position at a HOF level including QB and throwing to himself as a W/R he's just unstoppable.. I have a ticket on the fast track Bus when Mo gets inducted to the HOF in Aug..

[SenorGato]

39 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Mo can play any position at a HOF level including QB and throwing to himself as a W/R he's just unstoppable.. I have a ticket on the fast track Bus when Mo gets inducted to the HOF in Aug..

The butthurt in this guy is severe. How pissed would you be if he beat your boyhood targets of lust to Canton? LOLZ 

[SenorGato]

48 minutes ago, bitonti said:

If that's true, no one told the agents. 

http://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

http://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle/

The only RT that is being paid LT money is Lane Johnson, who was an elite draft pick and is going to be the LT of the future when Peters retires. All the other RT make about half as much as the equivalent LT. 

 

Yes bit, it's long established that LTs are paid significantly more. No one is arguing otherwise or even suggesting otherwise. This lazily drives around the point that the prototypical RT, in today's game, is the prototypical LT and vice versa.

Since...for convenience's sake, I assume...you missed all of these when posted:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/10/23/left-tackles-overvalued/3170721/

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/16/left-tackle-value

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/29/examining-pressure-are-left-tackles-overvalued/ (this one is kinda funny because it shows pass rushers like Von Miller going up against RTs. As we learned from scientists when it came to Wilkerson - this basically means those guys were gifted sacks by Jah and these do not actually count - unless the heavens deem the sack/s as having Taken Over the Game based on an arbitrary process, but I am digressing)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2013/word-muth-smith-island

Quote

 

This was a big vote of confidence by the Cowboys coaching staff in the opening week and Smith absolutely delivered. A lot of people are starting to think left tackles are becoming overvalued in the NFL and I understand where they’re coming from to a certain extent. But if you do land an elite left tackle, it makes the rest of your line’s job so much easier. When you can neutralize a defense’s best pass rusher with one man, you can double at other spots and cover up some deficiencies. (And the Cowboys guards are currently deficiencies. I think that will be a common topic in this column.) 

The issue is that average left tackles, or even good ones, aren’t quite good enough to give you this schematic advantage. Yet you have to draft and pay them like they do. It’s why there’s been a bit of blind side backlash recently. But if you do land a good one, it’s still an absolute game changer.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/15/examining-pressure/2/

 

 

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Yes bit, it's long established that LTs are paid significantly more. No one is arguing otherwise or even suggesting otherwise. This lazily drives around the point that the prototypical RT, in today's game, is the prototypical LT and vice versa.

There's a reason why some guys end up at LT and others at RT. the RT usually gets tight end coverage and power running plays usually go right. The LT is usually uncovered and has to take on the other team's best edge rusher without help. You talk about Von Miller going against RT that's because Demarcus Ware is going against the LT. It was a historically awesome defense. 

[Tinstar]

you know what I just noticed while examining the over the cap contracts on the Jets.  It seems that all the OTs we signed are potential LT candidates . Coincidence, I wonder .

[Savage69]

25 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The butthurt in this guy is severe. How pissed would you be if he beat your boyhood targets of lust to Canton? LOLZ 

The only Jet that I think should make it was Klecko who you think Mo will surpass?? Other then that I have no clue what your talking about and obviously neither do you..

[SenorGato]

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's a reason why some guys end up at LT and others at RT. the RT usually gets tight end coverage and power running plays usually go right. The LT is usually uncovered and has to take on the other team's best edge rusher without help. You talk about Von Miller going against RT that's because Demarcus Ware is going against the LT. It was a historically awesome defense. 

That reason is more and more often because LT is already occupied by an incumbent rather than radically different skillsets or levels of skill. Bulaga isn't really a worse tackle than the Packers' LT. Vollmer is one of the best pass blockers at any of the OL positions when he's on the field. Lane Johnson was drafted specifically with RT in mind using a high pick and top of the draft money. 

That teams started sending their Von Millers at RT is why the position has evolved. Teams started realizing the way to counteract the LT position was to physically beat the position's traditionally more finesse style players, like we saw when D'Brick struggled against guys Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith or Fletcher Cox or whoever lines up there on a given play with the Jets' current DL. 

As far as the Ware thing....Miller is there for matchup purposes, as he's their best pass rusher over the post-prime Ware. 

17 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

The only Jet that I think should make it was Klecko who you think Mo will surpass?? Other then that I have no clue what your talking about and obviously neither do you..

Ooph, good one. You asked about the guy and he's not even mentioned here LOLZ...Yep, severe case of butthurt. Didn't mean to go after your l-o-v-e!!! 

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Cutler was a good QB who never got coached up .  In Denver he had a horrible defense .  He hasn't had much of anything else since then  until last year  . 

I get the thinking but I'm much more of a guy is what he is.  He's a douch, wild armed QB who doesnt strike me as too smart.  RGIII was a beast until he was hurt under Shanny, Cutler wasnt coached up.  

[Dunnie]

I get the thinking but I'm much more of a guy is what he is.  He's a douch, wild armed QB who doesnt strike me as too smart.  RGIII was a beast until he was hurt under Shanny, Cutler wasnt coached up.  

The only reason RG3 was any good under Shannahan is because they spoon fed him a simplified offense tailored around what he ran in college. As soon as he was asked to learn a pro style offense he imploded like a beer can at the bottom of the sea. pass.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

30 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

 

The only reason RG3 was any good under Shannahan is because they spoon fed him a simplified offense tailored around what he ran in college. As soon as he was asked to learn a pro style offense he imploded like a beer can at the bottom of the sea. pass.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You keep telling yourself that.

They ran the read option only 10-15 % of the time.  The rest of the time they ran a pro style offense.  

And none of this had a thing to do with signing RGIII.  It was can Shannahan coach a QB.  Considering what he did with RGIII, that he got Elway his SBs, won with Griese and Plummer, I'd say blame Cutler, not Shanny.

Talk about missing the point, lol

 

[Sperm Edwards]

On February 18, 2016 at 0:18 PM, bitonti said:

The scenario I want to avoid is the Jets reaching for need because they cut their 10 year starting LT and didn't have even a backup level alternative on the roster. Need picks are where mistakes are made.

 I understand where Brick is in his career, but replacing him is either a high draft pick or a multi-year project.  this idea they can cut Brick (absorbing like 5 mil dead money) and sign a cheap better replacement, and somehow be in better cap shape, is not going to happen. That player doesn't exist.

Or alternatively forced into drafting a Conklin type 10-20 slots early and hoping he can be a day 1 LT starter. Even great LTs are often shaky as rookies. 

And yes Rex knew how to defeat Ryan Fitzpatrick. He knew how to do that when Fitz was on the Bills. Tinstar wanted to know why the Jets lost to Houston and Buffalo and the reason is not the offensive line. 

All of your arguments are rooted in the same false premise that Ferguson is still better than most left tackles. He is not. There are backups better than he is now. 

[bitonti]

who are these backups better than Brick? I want actual names please. 

[drdetroit]

On February 20, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Dunnie said:

 

The only reason RG3 was any good under Shannahan is because they spoon fed him a simplified offense tailored around what he ran in college. As soon as he was asked to learn a pro style offense he imploded like a beer can at the bottom of the sea. pass.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#Mariota