Seven Years Ago Today

[Jet Life]

We gave up pretty much nothing to move up to 5. Id make that move all over again 

[ZachEY]

Fun fact: Football is a team sport when convenient and all about the QB when also convenient.

[rex-n-effect]

Just think in seven years we will be saying seven years ago today the Second Circuit confirmed Brady's suspension.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Actually, Advanced Stats and Fantasy Football have nothing to do with one another.  That you don't understand that isn't our burden.

they may not be connected but they all get lumped in b/c fools think they matter.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Advanced stats provide context.

You do not.

Rivers had the #1 D in football therefore wins don't count. Meanwhile the 2010 Jets lost four - FOUR - games that season when the defense held opponents to 10 points or less with Sanchez at the helm. Good Lord.

Also, no sense in noticing that a QB that keeps his defense off the field better helps the defense's stats. Don't pay attention to that. The Jets' defense obviously would have been the same or worse with a good QB completing more than 55% of his passes.

[Bleedin Green]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

no they don't, when they list Romo who was 1-5 at the time and played only 6 games ahead of a guy w/ 5 late game comebacks that helped his team reach title game that invalidates all the info.  Eli throws 25 INTs and throws away his teams season but he was better based on this "stats".  It's all nonsense, just watch football.  these stats and fantasy football have ruined the game b/c people think if you don't have great fantasy #s then you stink.

I thought when QBs lost games or had turnovers, those weren't his fault.  What happened to that?

[nyjunc]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Rivers had the #1 D in football therefore wins don't count. Meanwhile the 2010 Jets lost four - FOUR - games that season when the defense held opponents to 10 points or less with Sanchez at the helm. Good Lord.

Also, no sense in noticing that a QB that keeps his defense off the field better helps the defense's stats. Don't pay attention to that. The Jets' defense obviously would have been the same or worse with a good QB completing more than 55% of his passes.

It was 3 games not 4.

 

Bal game the D allowed Baltimore to control the clock for FORTY minutes.  the D was every bit as responsible for that loss as the O.  go check how many 3rd and longs they gave up to keep drives going.

GB game was a windy day where neither O could do anything.  GB would have had just 3 pts if not for 2 BS TOs that they called INTs which at worst should have been fumbles but both guys were down.

the Miami game the O and mark stunk but since we bring up dropped INts do you recall the easy dropped TD by Holmes?

 

we also lost a game we scored 34 pts and in 2 of our losses we allowed 34 or more points in the game.

 

so allowing a ridiculous # of 3rd and longs vs. Baltimore was the QBs fault?

 

 

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I thought when QBs lost games or had turnovers, those weren't his fault.  What happened to that?

you are making things up b/c you have nothing in this argument other than out of context stats.  I give Mark blame for certain losses just not all losses like you guys pretend he was responsible for and pretending he held back a juggernaut that even a HOF QB couldn't get to the playoffs.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Fun fact: Football is a team sport when convenient and all about the QB when also convenient.

fun fact, the most important position in the game is QB.  it's why BB went from terrible HC to all time great.  

[Big Blocker]

18 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you are so clueless it's comical, we basically gave up a 2nd rd pick to move up to draft sanchez.  we exchanged our 1st rd picks, gave up 3 backup players and a 2nd rd pick so it was basically a 2nd rd pick to move from 17th to 5th.  That trade was a steal.

 

w/ DRob we gave exchnaged our 1st rd picks, threw in another 1st rd pick(which we got for losing our best WR) and gave them a 4th rd pick.  

Being called clueless by you is a great honor.  Thank you.  And no I am not going to waste time arguing the equivalent of whether the earth is flat.  Sanchez sucked.

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

Moving along here.

 

[nyjunc]

Just now, Big Blocker said:

Being called clueless by you is a great honor.  Thank you.  And no I am not going to waste time arguing the equivalent of whether the earth is flat.  Sanchez sucked.

great counter, you got me.  Please tell me more about the trades that brought us Mark and DRob.

[Rexorcism]

Say what you want about Sanchez, if we had a guy who could properly develop a quarterback he would still be here right now and we would of won a super bowl.

bullshlt...the guy is what he is... average

[legler82]

41 minutes ago, section314 said:

To be fair, this post really shouldn't be just about Sanchez. It really makes the point that when you draft a QB high in the draft with the idea he's the franchise guy, and you miss, it sets the franchise back 7-10 years. We are no closer to having a QB today than the day Farve left.

The bold is no longer true because of the current CBA and even back when it was true, 7-10 years is a major stretch.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, legler82 said:

The bold is no longer true because of the current CBA and even back when it was true, 7-10 years is a major stretch.

plus in 2015 we had a franchise record breaker so we are set at QB 

[Bleedin Green]

13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you are making things up b/c you have nothing in this argument other than out of context stats.  I give Mark blame for certain losses just not all losses like you guys pretend he was responsible for and pretending he held back a juggernaut that even a HOF QB couldn't get to the playoffs.

Nothing is being made up.  You are using an ongoing list of excuses to dismiss any criticism that goes in the direction of Sanchez, yet refuse to apply the same supposed "reasoning" to anyone else.  Any means of analysis that has every player being evaluated under the same guidelines does not have Sanchez rated as anything close to a top QB.  Yet you argue that he should be graded on some sort of curve, while absolutely no one else should have the same luxury, simply to justify your own personal feelings.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

It was 3 games not 4.

 

Bal game the D allowed Baltimore to control the clock for FORTY minutes.  the D was every bit as responsible for that loss as the O.  go check how many 3rd and longs they gave up to keep drives going.

GB game was a windy day where neither O could do anything.  GB would have had just 3 pts if not for 2 BS TOs that they called INTs which at worst should have been fumbles but both guys were down.

the Miami game the O and mark stunk but since we bring up dropped INts do you recall the easy dropped TD by Holmes?

 

we also lost a game we scored 34 pts and in 2 of our losses we allowed 34 or more points in the game.

 

so allowing a ridiculous # of 3rd and longs vs. Baltimore was the QBs fault?

 

 

The Baltimore game was because he didn't complete half his passes and we kept coming off the field ourselves. You could make a case for this if he didn't look like a dumpster fire himself, putting our D back on the field. Or were all his misfires (adding up to a 45% completion rate) the result of dropped passes? What "ridiculous # of 3rd and longs vs Baltimore" are you referring to? And this was a close conference game so that's a "pressure situation" no?

Wasn't the Miami game a "pressure" situation? Fighting for first place, division game, and even if you count the 1 dropped pass (which now becomes shockingly relevant, as expected), he was atrocious.

Then you bring up a "pressure" game at the end of the season vs Chicago - and we scored 34 points because we got a pick-6 not because the offense scored 34 points as you imply by omitting it. It was a close game at the end and what did Captain Pressure do on our 4th quarter "pressure" drives?

• Incomplete passes >> punt
• Incomplete passes >> punt
• Incomplete pass >> punt
• Interception. 
• Game over

See the thing with top 10 QBs, is there's not a need to whine about the defense. That's what separates them. Was Cutler therefore a top 10 QB? He overcame a 31 point surrendering against a top 5 defense, even if 7 was by his own hand.GB game I remember the conditions and there was no excuse for getting shut out. He was missing targets on dumpoff passes. We could have put YOU out there and scored the same amount of points. Worse still, his 2 picks came on the only 2 sustained drives we had all game. Imagine how deflating that is to a team - and a defense in particular - who was aptly handling Aaron Rodgers. 

It seems to me you want to count his wins - including blowouts - as pressure situations unlike those faced by any other QB, but when he blows opportunities in other pressure situations you have these long diatribe excuses for the losses. You afford no other QB these excuses. Because you didn't watch them and are comparing them based on your personal assumptions that they had it easy while Sanchez had it hard. That's what makes it bullsh*t. 

 

 

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Nothing is being made up.  You are using an ongoing list of excuses to dismiss any criticism that goes in the direction of Sanchez, yet refuse to apply the same supposed "reasoning" to anyone else.  Any means of analysis that has every player being evaluated under the same guidelines does not have Sanchez rated as anything close to a top QB.  Yet you argue that he should be graded on some sort of curve, while absolutely no one else should have the same luxury, simply to justify your own personal feelings.

excuses, facts- whatever you want to call them.

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Baltimore game was because he didn't complete half his passes and we kept coming off the field ourselves. You could make a case for this if he didn't look like a dumpster fire himself, putting our D back on the field. Or were all his misfires (adding up to a 45% completion rate) the result of dropped passes? What "ridiculous # of 3rd and longs vs Baltimore" are you referring to? And this was a close conference game so that's a "pressure situation" no?

Wasn't the Miami game a "pressure" situation? Fighting for first place, division game, and even if you count the 1 dropped pass (which now becomes shockingly relevant, as expected), he was atrocious.

Then you bring up a "pressure" game at the end of the season vs Chicago - and we scored 34 points because we got a pick-6 not because the offense scored 34 points as you imply by omitting it. It was a close game at the end and what did Captain Pressure do on our 4th quarter "pressure" drives?

• Incomplete passes >> punt
• Incomplete passes >> punt
• Incomplete pass >> punt
• Interception. 
• Game over

See the thing with top 10 QBs, is there's not a need to whine about the defense. That's what separates them. Was Cutler therefore a top 10 QB? He overcame a 31 point surrendering against a top 5 defense, even if 7 was by his own hand.GB game I remember the conditions and there was no excuse for getting shut out. He was missing targets on dumpoff passes. We could have put YOU out there and scored the same amount of points. Worse still, his 2 picks came on the only 2 sustained drives we had all game. Imagine how deflating that is to a team - and a defense in particular - who was aptly handling Aaron Rodgers. 

It seems to me you want to count his wins - including blowouts - as pressure situations unlike those faced by any other QB, but when he blows opportunities in other pressure situations you have these long diatribe excuses for the losses. You afford no other QB these excuses. Because you didn't watch them and are comparing them based on your personal assumptions that they had it easy while Sanchez had it hard. That's what makes it bullsh*t. 

 

 

oh the Bal game was all his fault not allowing the following 3rd and longs:

3rd and 9

3rd and 13

3rd and 28

3rd and 9

3rd and 9

3rd and 10

3rd and 5

3rd and 10

3rd and 10

not to mentioned Rex always played scared against Baltimore, mark only passed the ball 21 times.

 

The team was in shambles for the Miami game after the NE debacle and again you talk dropped INts why no mention of the dropped TD?

 

 

is there something wrong w/ scoring 27 points on the road against the #1 seed in the NFC? did we not have a double digit lead that the D blew and after a TD pass to tie the game in the 3rd what did the D do? allowed 2 min TD drive to give it right back.

 

 

He was a primary reason his team got to 11 wins in a division with the Patriots.  he made plays to win games, that means more than meaningless #s.  in 2011 his #s were much better, he was nowhere near as good of a QB in 2011.

[legler82]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

plus in 2015 we had a franchise record breaker so we are set at QB 

One could make the opposite argument that the team was "set back" when they cut NOT traded up to pick Sanchez.

[nyjunc]

Just now, legler82 said:

One could make the opposite argument that the team was "set back" when they cut NOT traded up to pick Sanchez.

That I believe is a fact though not on the cutting, on the fake competition in 2013 that resulted in mark getting hurt.

[legler82]

Just now, nyjunc said:

That I believe is a fact though not on the cutting, on the fake competition in 2013 that resulted in mark getting hurt.

I wrote before I think that shoulder was a ticking time bomb since late 2011 so it was going to happen at some point.

[nyjunc]

Just now, legler82 said:

I wrote before I think that shoulder was a ticking time bomb since late 2011 so it was going to happen at some point.

I always marveled at how he stayed healthy, he took some vicious shots through the years.  late 2011 he was playing hurt.

[Beerfish]

No weapons, not Marks fault....

The courage of a Lion!

Elite Ball skillzzz

The grace of a gazelle

As accurate as William Tell with a bow..

Hands of glue..

Soccer, his true calling...

The screen our bread and butter...

 

[nyjunc]

most of those clips are from 2012 w/ a PRESEASON game from 2013 thrown in.

 

buttfumble we know

who cares about the Buffalo play where he got jittery

do you remember who was under C for that Raven game?

we beat Buf 48-27 I believe and he led our O to 34 pts.

that game at NE he brought us back late and sent the game to OT, gave D a late lead which they blew(as usual).

playing at Seattle is always a piece of cake.

you know that was a great play to kick the ball out of the EZ, right?

oh no a preseason INT!

 

I have acknowledged he was awful in 2012, maybe the worst QB in the league.  of course w/ Chaz Schielns, Stephen Hill and Clyde Gates as his main weapons w/ Sparano running things and a sprinkle of tebow he had no chance but he did stink.  

 

 

 

 

 

[legler82]

10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I have acknowledged he was awful in 2012, maybe the worst QB in the league.  of course w/ Chaz Schielns, Stephen Hill and Clyde Gates as his main weapons w/ Sparano running things and a sprinkle of tebow he had no chance but he did stink.  

 

Sanchez was always proned to making terrible decisions, when you combine that with a weaken shoulder, the worst set of offensive weapons in the league and Sparno's amateur offensive scheme, you get the cluster **** that was the 2012 season.

[ZachEY]

How many games are we up to wherein Sanchez is completely excused due to wind?

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

great counter, you got me.  Please tell me more about the trades that brought us Mark and DRob.

This is an example for all here why it is a waste of time to argue with you.  Sophistry and misrepresentation are constants in your posts.  I said the Sanchez pick when I said the worst, meaning not only its cost but effect on the team.  I did not focus solely on the trade before the pick.

You are best off ignored.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

This is an example for all here why it is a waste of time to argue with you.  Sophistry and misrepresentation are constants in your posts.  I said the Sanchez pick when I said the worst, meaning not only its cost but effect on the team.  I did not focus solely on the trade before the pick.

You are best off ignored.

the effect on the team was 2 conf title games, 2 chances at SBs.  from 1970-2008 we had 2 chances.  You don't debate with me b/c you cannot keep up and would rather just attack me.  I simply countered that asinine post and you can't come back at me w/ anything other than insults.  go back to TGG.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

How many games are we up to wherein Sanchez is completely excused due to wind?

weather conditions don't affect play?  how many games in Aaron Rodgers' career has he been held to 9 pts or less? (w/ 6 of them coming on bogus TOs or it would have been 3 pts).

[section314]

53 minutes ago, legler82 said:

The bold is no longer true because of the current CBA and even back when it was true, 7-10 years is a major stretch.

As I stated in post, not an indictment of Sanchez, just a comment that if you miss on a 1st rd QB, it sets you back. From our perspective, it has been 7 years, and if we draft another guy this year it will be 2 years, at least, before he is ready. The timeline is not that far fetched. 

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, section314 said:

As I stated in post, not an indictment of Sanchez, just a comment that if you miss on a 1st rd QB, it sets you back. From our perspective, it has been 7 years, and if we draft another guy this year it will be 2 years, at least, before he is ready. The timeline is not that far fetched. 

we have missed on QBs since Namath and it's a reason we aren't consistently very good but we've also had a lot of very good years too.  Hopefully someday soon we get a true franchise QB.

[ZachEY]

28 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

weather conditions don't affect play?  how many games in Aaron Rodgers' career has he been held to 9 pts or less? (w/ 6 of them coming on bogus TOs or it would have been 3 pts).

Weather certainly matters when it's convenient.

[legler82]

15 minutes ago, section314 said:

As I stated in post, not an indictment of Sanchez, just a comment that if you miss on a 1st rd QB, it sets you back. From our perspective, it has been 7 years, and if we draft another guy this year it will be 2 years, at least, before he is ready. The timeline is not that far fetched. 

Drafting Sanchez has far less to do with the state of the Jets in the last 7 years than poor personnel and coach decisions.  IMO the whole if you miss on a QB in the first  round sets you back [insert number] years is an outdated and oversimplified concept.

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Drafting Sanchez has far less to do with the state of the Jets in the last 7 years than poor personnel and coach decisions.  IMO the whole if you miss on a QB in the first  round sets you back [insert number] years is an outdated and oversimplified concept.

Drafting Sanchez wasn't the big mistake, though there are certainly some, like @Miss Lonelyhearts who made this case strongly.  The mistake that crushed us was that miserable Tannenbaum given extension.  

[nyjunc]

21 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Weather certainly matters when it's convenient.

sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.  when you see Aaron Rodgers play like that I would think it did that day.