Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: Geno is the starter and we move on with Hackenberg/Petty as our back ups. Or with Fitzpatrick resigned but we had to either cut guys like Giaccomini/Folk while restructuring other contracts/or just dropping Wilkerson's tag? Lets keep in mind that the he Jets are built as a "win now" football team (#1 WR duo, Forte, Top 3-Top 5 D, revamped linebackers etc.) and can provide complimentary targets for both QB's. Guys like Smith/Peake/Anderson can contribute in a Jets offense with Geno at QB, the reliable hands of Forte/Powell can be a consistent 3rd target out of the backfield with Fitzpatrick at QB. Both QB's have their own pros/cons and Chan Gailey will have to approach the offense different given the different skillsets. Here's the schedule for reference. week 1 Bengals week 2 @ Bills week 3 @ chiefs week 4 seahawks week 5 @ Steelers week 6 @ cardinals week 7 Ravens week 8 @ Browns week 9 @ Dolphins week 10 Rams week 11 Bye week 12 Patriots week 13 Colts week 14 @ 49ers week 15 Dolphins week 16 @ Patriots week 17 Bills This site definitely needed another QB debate centered around a hypothetical premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: This site definitely needed another QB debate centered around a hypothetical premise. #Offseason. C'mon, try to enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 21 minutes ago, JiF said: What argument? That 8-8 didnt count because of statistics and stuff? That argument? Because I'm pretty sure its 100% fact that Geno was 8-8 as a rookie and they dont take wins away because of statistics and stuff. And what, exactly, does it prove that the Jets won a flukey 8 games with Geno as a rookie? The next year's team went 4-12. And in both years Geno was the worst starting QB in the NFL. So unless Geno suddenly becomes competent, we're looking at a 4-5 win season, maybe 6-10, with him as the starter in 2016. That's what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: you're missing the point. Its not about having money next year. Its about maximizing the return on the money you spend which includes smart contracts. Cutting Wilkerson/Breno in order to sign Fitzpatrick is not maximizing you return. You're losing an all-pro DE, putting Fitz behind a line with a glaring hole at RT & an injury prone LT and you're guaranteeing future roster spots for guys that you have must restructure which may not be a good thing if their talents decline. This is the exact method that Tanny did. The latest example of that was with D'Brick. Luckily Clady is a good but very injury prone LT or we wouldnt have had a replacement. The problem is, what happens if you cut Breno and then Clady gets hurt? 25 million dollars next year wont help the fact that we put ourselves behind the 8 ball to sign a guy and run the risk of having no Tackles, and releasing Wilkerson for nothing. And if this happens and the Jets only win 5 or 6 games, the first thing that will be said is "Our LT got hurt and we had a hole at RT", not realizing that releasing Breno, forcing Shell to start and releasing WIlk just to sign a career backup who had 1 good season exacerbated the problem. Jesus Christ. You don't have to cut Wilk to sign Fitz. The Jets already have a hole at RT. The rest is not even worth my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Jesus Christ. You don't have to cut Wilk to sign Fitz. The Jets already have a hole at RT. The rest is not even worth my time. You're not showing how you can sign Fitz without that. Instead of calling on Christ, how about showing where the 15 million will come from along with how doing so will be beneficial to the team instead of moving forward with Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 It doesn't matter what his record would be at all, he has a 'tough' sched thus it's not his fault. Even with all the weaponzzz he can't be expected to over come a tough sched,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Just now, Villain The Foe said: #Offseason. C'mon, try to enjoy! No, it's stupid. You are proliferating the dumbing down of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: And what, exactly, does it prove that the Jets won a flukey 8 games with Geno as a rookie? The next year's team went 4-12. And in both years Geno was the worst starting QB in the NFL. So unless Geno suddenly becomes competent, we're looking at a 4-5 win season, maybe 6-10, with him as the starter in 2016. That's what this thread is about. Geno's flukey 8-8 season was with a team with a fraction of the talent we have today and Geno, being a 4th year vet is a better QB than he was as a rookie. The latest fluke here is our 10-6 record against the easiest schedule arguably in Jets history with the most talent collectively the past 20 years with a QB who before then never won more than 6 games....and he's an 11 year Vet. How does that get a pass, but Geno's first 2 year dont? <<<<<<<This question has been asked for months, and its never....ever answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: No, it's stupid. You are proliferating the dumbing down of this forum. lol. I dont care. No one forced you to log on to Jetnation.com and open this thread. Go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: You're not showing how you can sign Fitz without that. Instead of calling on Christ, how about showing where the 15 million will come from along with how doing so will be beneficial to the team instead of moving forward with Geno. Why do you need 15 million? They aren't going to pay him that and even if they did, that might not be his cap number. They can sign Wilk long term and fit both in. They can cut Breno or restructure Mangold and Marshall. There are ways to make it work without hurting the team this year or any years in the future. Either you're intelligent enough to see it or you don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colgateman Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: What I am saying is it was a statistical anomaly. We were supposed to win 4-5 games that year. Just like we went 4-12 with Geno at the helm the following year. Based on point differential, we were the worst team in the AFC East in 2013, yet people want to pretend we were actually the 2nd best team, and Geno was a reason for that. We weren't, and he wasn't. If people are banking on Geno this year (which the Jets clearly would prefer not to, given that they've brought in 3 new QB's in 2 years, investing a 2nd, 4th, and 7th rounder to do so, and would make Fitz the starter again immediately if he comes back), he'll have to improve as a player dramatically. Chan Gailey won't be able to take 2013-14 Geno and mold a winner out of him. Just like Fitzpatrick wasn't the reason the jets won 10 games. Ah, I love people who contradict themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 56 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said: 0-16 with Geno; 16-0 with Fitz. Obviously. Yet Fitzpatrick with that record would still figure out a way to miss the playoffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colgateman Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: Geno's flukey 8-8 season was with a team with a fraction of the talent we have today and Geno, being a 4th year vet is a better QB than he was as a rookie. The latest fluke here is our 10-6 record against the easiest schedule arguably in Jets history with the most talent collectively the past 20 years with a QB who before then never won more than 6 games....and he's an 11 year Vet. How does that get a pass, but Geno's first 2 year dont? <<<<<<<This question has been asked for months, and its never....ever answered. That's because they don't have the answers. They make strawman arguments that can be easily debunked and run when they are debunked to another thread to spew trash. That's the jets nation way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said: Geno's flukey 8-8 season was with a team with a fraction of the talent we have today and Geno, being a 4th year vet is a better QB than he was as a rookie. The latest fluke here is our 10-6 record against the easiest schedule arguably in Jets history with the most talent collectively the past 20 years with a QB who before then never won more than 6 games....and he's an 11 year Vet. How does that get a pass, but Geno's first 2 year dont? <<<<<<<This question has been asked for months, and its never....ever answered. Based on what I've seen. If you're given an answer that challenges your argument, it is ignored or disregarded. So, it's not really about it "being answered". It's about you asking a question you don't want answers to, for the sake of masquerading an insecure rant as a "debate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Why do you need 15 million? They aren't going to pay him that and even if they did, that might not be his cap number. They can sign Wilk long term and fit both in. They can cut Breno or restructure Mangold and Marshall. There are ways to make it work without hurting the team this year or any years in the future. Either you're intelligent enough to see it or you don't understand it. Because from reports Fitz is looking for 15 Million. Please, show me how we get there. Dont tell me that there are ways to make it work. Show me how it works, and then after, tell me if that maximized the money in reflection of talent on the roster. Show me or leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Colgateman said: That's because they don't have the answers. They make strawman arguments that can be easily debunked and run when they are debunked to another thread to spew trash. That's the jets nation way. After months of waiting i've come to that conclusion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: lol. I dont care. No one forced you to log on to Jetnation.com and open this thread. Go somewhere else. No. I like it here. I don't think I'll leave. If you expect people to accept that you're going to create derivative instances of the same redundant argument daily, under the premise that it's an open forum and you can talk about what you want... then you should also accept that I'm going to talk about what I want. I want to talk about the quality of content on this site, and your role in diminishing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: Based on what I've seen. If you're given an answer that challenges your argument, it is ignored or disregarded. So, it's not really about it "being answered". It's about you asking a question you don't want answers to, for the sake of masquerading an insecure rant as a "debate". Come back when you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 Just now, Integrity28 said: No. I like it here. I don't think I'll leave. If you expect people to accept that you're going to create derivative instances of the same redundant argument daily, under the premise that it's an open forum and you can talk about what you want... then you should also accept that I'm going to talk about what I want. I want to talk about the quality of content on this site, and your role in diminishing it. Then leave, no need to talk as you walk out....the door is closing behind your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Colgateman said: That's because they don't have the answers. They make strawman arguments that can be easily debunked and run when they are debunked to another thread to spew trash. That's the jets nation way. Wait, you're claiming victory because a strawman argument was countered with... wait for it... a strawman argument? The Jetnation way used to be pretty sound debate format, with solid premise. A little friendly trolling mixed in for laughs, but the football talk and knowledge was better here than any other Jet fan forum. Now it has become a mosh pit of slap-fighting nitwits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: Then leave, no need to talk as you walk out....the door is closing behind your ass. @Maxman has never been a fan of users telling other users to leave his site. I know from personal experience. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colgateman Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Just now, Integrity28 said: Wait, you're claiming victory because a strawman argument was countered with... wait for it... a strawman argument? The Jetnation way used to be pretty sound debate format, with solid premise. A little friendly trolling mixed in for laughs, but the football talk and knowledge was better here than any other Jet fan forum. Now it has become a mosh pit of slap-fighting nitwits. I make nothing but logical arguments supported by facts, reason and stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 Just now, Integrity28 said: @Maxman has never been a fan of users telling other users to leave his site. I know from personal experience. LOL @Maxman never told me that. Maybe he likes me more than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Just now, Villain The Foe said: @Maxman never told me that. Maybe he likes me more than you. I'm sure you need that reassurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: I'm sure you need that reassurance. Hey, you're the one snitching to Max. I dont do those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Colgateman said: I make nothing but logical arguments supported by facts, reason and stats. I never said you were one of the nitwits. Insecurity suits you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: week 1 Bengals (Loss) week 2 @ Bills (Loss) week 3 @ chiefs (Loss) week 4 seahawks (Loss) week 5 @ Steelers (Loss) week 6 @ cardinals (Win) week 7 Ravens (Loss) week 8 @ Browns (Win) week 9 @ Dolphins (Loss) week 10 Rams (Win) week 11 Bye week 12 Patriots (Loss) week 13 Colts (Loss) week 14 @ 49ers (Win) week 15 Dolphins (Loss) week 16 @ Patriots (Loss) week 17 Bills (Loss) I'll play. Final record with Geno as the full-time starter all year, 4-12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Warfish said: I'll play. Final record with Geno as the full-time starter all year, 4-12. Okay. And what about Fitz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colgateman Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: I never said you were one of the nitwits. Insecurity suits you well. Well, since you were quoting me I figured you were talking about me, my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said: Hey, you're the one snitching to Max. Yes, I did snitch. I am also rubber, you're glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Colgateman said: Well, since you were quoting me I figured you were talking about me, my bad I may or may not have had you in mind when I made that generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said: Okay. And what about Fitz? To quote you: 15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: Geno is the top dog on the team, if that changes then cool, I'll address all of this speculation and hypotheticals then. But for now, its ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: Yes, I did snitch. I am also rubber, you're glue. Whatever you want to call it. But you can still leave if you have problem with the thread. But since you're here I suppose that you're just sh*t talking like usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, Colgateman said: I make nothing but logical arguments supported by facts, reason and stats. I find your arguments not only logical, but also refreshing and cleansing, Colgateman. Whenever I read your posts, it is though this board has been scrubbed of any prior buildup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Warfish said: To quote you: Good answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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