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What do you think the Jets record could be if....


Villain The Foe

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7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Geno is the starter and we move on with Hackenberg/Petty as our back ups. Or with Fitzpatrick resigned but we had to either cut guys like Giaccomini/Folk while restructuring other contracts/or just dropping Wilkerson's tag?

Lets keep in mind that the he Jets are built as a "win now" football team (#1 WR duo, Forte, Top 3-Top 5 D, revamped linebackers etc.) and can provide complimentary targets for both QB's. Guys like Smith/Peake/Anderson can contribute in a Jets offense with Geno at QB, the reliable hands of Forte/Powell can be a consistent 3rd target out of the backfield with Fitzpatrick at QB. 

Both QB's have their own pros/cons and Chan Gailey will have to approach the offense different given the different skillsets. 

 


Here's the schedule for reference. 

week 1  Bengals

week 2 @ Bills 

week 3 @ chiefs  

week 4 seahawks

week 5 @ Steelers 

week 6 @ cardinals 

week 7 Ravens

week 8 @ Browns

week 9 @ Dolphins

week 10 Rams

week 11 Bye

week 12 Patriots

week 13 Colts

week 14 @ 49ers

week 15 Dolphins

week 16 @ Patriots

week 17 Bills

 

 

This site definitely needed another QB debate centered around a hypothetical premise.

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21 minutes ago, JiF said:

What argument?  That 8-8 didnt count because of statistics and stuff?  That argument?

Because I'm pretty sure its 100% fact that Geno was 8-8 as a rookie and they dont take wins away because of statistics and stuff. 

And what, exactly, does it prove that the Jets won a flukey 8 games with Geno as a rookie?  The next year's team went 4-12.  And in both years Geno was the worst starting QB in the NFL.  So unless Geno suddenly becomes competent, we're looking at a 4-5 win season, maybe 6-10, with him as the starter in 2016.  That's what this thread is about.

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

you're missing the point. Its not about having money next year. Its about maximizing the return on the money you spend which includes smart contracts. Cutting Wilkerson/Breno in order to sign Fitzpatrick is not maximizing you return. You're losing an all-pro DE, putting Fitz behind a line with a glaring hole at RT & an injury prone LT and you're guaranteeing future roster spots for guys that you have must restructure which may not be a good thing if their talents decline. 

This is the exact method that Tanny did. The latest example of that was with D'Brick. Luckily Clady is a good but very injury prone LT or we wouldnt have had a replacement. The problem is, what happens if you cut Breno and then Clady gets hurt? 25 million dollars next year wont help the fact that we put ourselves behind the 8 ball to sign a guy and run the risk of having no Tackles, and releasing Wilkerson for nothing. 

And if this happens and the Jets only win 5 or 6 games, the first thing that will be said is "Our LT got hurt and we had a hole at RT", not realizing that releasing Breno, forcing Shell to start and releasing WIlk just to sign a career backup who had 1 good season exacerbated the problem. 

Jesus Christ. You don't have to cut Wilk to sign Fitz. The Jets already have a hole at RT. The rest is not even worth my time.

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2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Jesus Christ. You don't have to cut Wilk to sign Fitz. The Jets already have a hole at RT. The rest is not even worth my time.

You're not showing how you can sign Fitz without that. Instead of calling on Christ,  how about showing where the 15 million will come from along with how doing so will be beneficial to the team instead of moving forward with Geno. 

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And what, exactly, does it prove that the Jets won a flukey 8 games with Geno as a rookie?  The next year's team went 4-12.  And in both years Geno was the worst starting QB in the NFL.  So unless Geno suddenly becomes competent, we're looking at a 4-5 win season, maybe 6-10, with him as the starter in 2016.  That's what this thread is about.

Geno's flukey 8-8 season was with a team with a fraction of the talent we have today and Geno, being a 4th year vet is a better QB than he was as a rookie. 

 

The latest fluke here is our 10-6 record against the easiest schedule arguably in Jets history with the most talent collectively the past 20 years with a QB who before then never won more than 6 games....and he's an 11 year Vet. 

 

How does that get a pass, but Geno's first 2 year dont? <<<<<<<This question has been asked for months, and its never....ever answered. 

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You're not showing how you can sign Fitz without that. Instead of calling on Christ,  how about showing where the 15 million will come from along with how doing so will be beneficial to the team instead of moving forward with Geno. 

Why do you need 15 million? They aren't going to pay him that and even if they did, that might not be his cap number. They can sign Wilk long term and fit both in. They can cut Breno or restructure Mangold and Marshall. There are ways to make it work without hurting the team this year or any years in the future. Either you're intelligent enough to see it or you don't understand it.

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50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What I am saying is it was a statistical anomaly.  We were supposed to win 4-5 games that year.  Just like we went 4-12 with Geno at the helm the following year.  Based on point differential, we were the worst team in the AFC East in 2013, yet people want to pretend we were actually the 2nd best team, and Geno was a reason for that.  We weren't, and he wasn't.

If people are banking on Geno this year (which the Jets clearly would prefer not to, given that they've brought in 3 new QB's in 2 years, investing a 2nd, 4th, and 7th rounder to do so, and would make Fitz the starter again immediately if he comes back), he'll have to improve as a player dramatically.  Chan Gailey won't be able to take 2013-14 Geno and mold a winner out of him. 

Just like Fitzpatrick wasn't the reason the jets won 10 games. Ah, I love people who contradict themselves 

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Geno's flukey 8-8 season was with a team with a fraction of the talent we have today and Geno, being a 4th year vet is a better QB than he was as a rookie. 

 

The latest fluke here is our 10-6 record against the easiest schedule arguably in Jets history with the most talent collectively the past 20 years with a QB who before then never won more than 6 games....and he's an 11 year Vet. 

 

How does that get a pass, but Geno's first 2 year dont? <<<<<<<This question has been asked for months, and its never....ever answered. 

That's because they don't have the answers. They make strawman arguments that can be easily debunked and run when they are debunked to another thread to spew trash. That's the jets nation way.

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Geno's flukey 8-8 season was with a team with a fraction of the talent we have today and Geno, being a 4th year vet is a better QB than he was as a rookie. 

 

The latest fluke here is our 10-6 record against the easiest schedule arguably in Jets history with the most talent collectively the past 20 years with a QB who before then never won more than 6 games....and he's an 11 year Vet. 

 

How does that get a pass, but Geno's first 2 year dont? <<<<<<<This question has been asked for months, and its never....ever answered. 

Based on what I've seen. 

If you're given an answer that challenges your argument, it is ignored or disregarded.

So, it's not really about it "being answered".

It's about you asking a question you don't want answers to, for the sake of masquerading an insecure rant as a "debate".

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3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Why do you need 15 million? They aren't going to pay him that and even if they did, that might not be his cap number. They can sign Wilk long term and fit both in. They can cut Breno or restructure Mangold and Marshall. There are ways to make it work without hurting the team this year or any years in the future. Either you're intelligent enough to see it or you don't understand it.

Because from reports Fitz is looking for 15 Million. Please, show me how we get there. Dont tell me that there are ways to make it work. Show me how it works, and then after, tell me if that maximized the money in reflection of talent on the roster. 

 

Show me or leave it alone. 

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3 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

That's because they don't have the answers. They make strawman arguments that can be easily debunked and run when they are debunked to another thread to spew trash. That's the jets nation way.

After months of waiting i've come to that conclusion as well. 

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3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

lol. I dont care. No one forced you to log on to Jetnation.com and open this thread. Go somewhere else. :cool:

No. I like it here. I don't think I'll leave.

If you expect people to accept that you're going to create derivative instances of the same redundant argument daily, under the premise that it's an open forum and you can talk about what you want... then you should also accept that I'm going to talk about what I want. 

I want to talk about the quality of content on this site, and your role in diminishing it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Based on what I've seen. 

If you're given an answer that challenges your argument, it is ignored or disregarded.

So, it's not really about it "being answered".

It's about you asking a question you don't want answers to, for the sake of masquerading an insecure rant as a "debate".

Come back when you're interested. 

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

No. I like it here. I don't think I'll leave.

If you expect people to accept that you're going to create derivative instances of the same redundant argument daily, under the premise that it's an open forum and you can talk about what you want... then you should also accept that I'm going to talk about what I want. 

I want to talk about the quality of content on this site, and your role in diminishing it.

 

Then leave, no need to talk as you walk out....the door is closing behind your ass. 

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5 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

That's because they don't have the answers. They make strawman arguments that can be easily debunked and run when they are debunked to another thread to spew trash. That's the jets nation way.

Wait, you're claiming victory because a strawman argument was countered with... wait for it... a strawman argument?

The Jetnation way used to be pretty sound debate format, with solid premise. A little friendly trolling mixed in for laughs, but the football talk and knowledge was better here than any other Jet fan forum. 

Now it has become a mosh pit of slap-fighting nitwits.

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3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then leave, no need to talk as you walk out....the door is closing behind your ass. 

@Maxman has never been a fan of users telling other users to leave his site. I know from personal experience. LOL

 

 

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

Wait, you're claiming victory because a strawman argument was countered with... wait for it... a strawman argument?

The Jetnation way used to be pretty sound debate format, with solid premise. A little friendly trolling mixed in for laughs, but the football talk and knowledge was better here than any other Jet fan forum. 

Now it has become a mosh pit of slap-fighting nitwits.

I make nothing but logical arguments supported by facts, reason and stats. 

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8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

week 1  Bengals (Loss)

week 2 @ Bills (Loss)

week 3 @ chiefs  (Loss)

week 4 seahawks (Loss)

week 5 @ Steelers (Loss)

week 6 @ cardinals (Win)

week 7 Ravens (Loss)

week 8 @ Browns (Win)

week 9 @ Dolphins (Loss)

week 10 Rams (Win)

week 11 Bye

week 12 Patriots (Loss)

week 13 Colts (Loss)

week 14 @ 49ers (Win)

week 15 Dolphins (Loss)

week 16 @ Patriots (Loss)

week 17 Bills (Loss)

I'll play. Final record with Geno as the full-time starter all year, 4-12.

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Okay. And what about Fitz? 

To quote you:

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Geno is the top dog on the team, if that changes then cool, I'll address all of this speculation and hypotheticals then. 

But for now, its ridiculous. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

I make nothing but logical arguments supported by facts, reason and stats. 

I find your arguments not only logical, but also refreshing and cleansing, Colgateman. Whenever I read your posts, it is though this board has been scrubbed of any prior buildup.

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