Opinion on Deshaun Watson after the combine?

[Freemanm]

This all depends on what we do in free agency. If we land Glennon and a LT then we can go BPA in the draft (my personal preference). We need to take Eiflin in round two to replace Mangold. I'd love Jabril Peppers at #1 and get rid of Gilchrist, although I think people would be upset if we did that. Get another corner and I think we'll be ok, although next season is definitely going to be a tank job

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Gee Andrezzi said:

Watson threw 28 picks the last 2 seasons in the ACC though? ?? he didn't face an elite defense until Alabama..and let's face it that's a rubber match. If they played again there's no way you can say Watson would win again.

Mariota played flawlessly in chip kelly's system where Sam Bradford struggled in it and Bradford was touted as the best QB coming out of college soooo..

i don't see how your really comparing the two of them at all lol

Guess again. SMC already posted this.  FSU isnt elite?  haha

Battle tested despite just three seasons at Clemson (played 38 games with 35 starts). Played some of his best football against top defensive competition the past two seasons (24 of 30 opponents faced the past two seasons ranked in the top-51 nationally in scoring defense, including seven in the top-15)

I can make the comparison because they're the exact same player.

 

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, SMC said:

I think the Watson detracting on accuracy overlooks the fact that Watson threw the ball A LOT. He gambles, yes, but he's a high volume thrower. His good completion percentage is more impressive than others because he threw way more even with running 20 times a game.

I like Watson, and would love to see the Jets end up with him. That said, I am not convinced at all that his completion percentage age Clemson translates to the NFL. He is such a run threat in college that defenses are not fast enough to account for him running, and often leave WR's wide open. He is often throwing to receivers without a defender within 10 yards. That will NOT happen in the NFL, and he will have to throw into tighter windows, which is when he tends to throw his interceptions. Drafting Watson at 6 will be a HUGE gamble, that I think is too big to take. I think he is a 2nd round pick, not 1st.

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Jameis also played under center and was forced to go through reads down the field. I like Watson too, but Clemson plays a kiddie offense.

I dont know about "forced to go through reads", he got his cues from the sidelines just like every other college QB.  He was throwing to NFL WR's who were wide open.  His best season, the year they won the National Championship, they played the weakest schedule in the history of a BCS Champion by a large margin.  53 SOS in the Nation.  They played a kiddie schedule. 

[Greensleeves]

On 3/5/2017 at 10:44 AM, joewilly12 said:

Yet we should cut all the veterans and go with a youth movement for every position but the QB. 

Watson isn't Hackenberg and boys turn into men when they enter the NFL unlike the 2nd round pick we chose who couldn't even break into the starting lineup of hall of fame QB's we had on last years roster. 

What really has me scratching my head is the same people that hate the coaching staff take their assessments to heart. For instance, Hack couldn't see the field in a bad season so he must suck. Wrong. They never wanted him to play. Hack is a smart kid with a lot of talent. They saw he needed work and have been giving that to him. In no way does it mean they don't want him to be their QB. Quite the opposite. But still, if you hate the coaches, don't spew the bull that the coaches didn't think he was ready - he very well could have been ready in another coaches eyes. Or, maybe they aren't developing him well enough. Foolish to slam a kid with his talent and football IQ that hasn't played a down. 

[Gee Andrezzi]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

Guess again. SMC already posted this.  FSU isnt elite?  haha

Battle tested despite just three seasons at Clemson (played 38 games with 35 starts). Played some of his best football against top defensive competition the past two seasons (24 of 30 opponents faced the past two seasons ranked in the top-51 nationally in scoring defense, including seven in the top-15)

I can make the comparison because they're the exact same player.

 

Okay 1 borderline elite defense all year before Alabama my bad...

and it clearly says SCORING DEFENSE, not elite...scoring defense just means they're opportunistic, not dominantly elite.

and they are nowhere near the same...mariota has always been considered accurate even at Oregon. If Winston wasn't in the draft he would've been the consensus #1 pick by far. He was the second best player in the draft by far.

nobody is saying Watson is a top 3 pick let alone best QB...

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Gee Andrezzi said:

Okay 1 borderline elite defense all year before Alabama my bad...

and it clearly says SCORING DEFENSE, not elite...scoring defense just means they're opportunistic, not dominantly elite.

and they are nowhere near the same...mariota has always been considered accurate even at Oregon. If Winston wasn't in the draft he would've been the consensus #1 pick by far. He was the second best player in the draft by far.

nobody is saying Watson is a top 3 pick let alone best QB...

So top scoring defense's arent good?  FSU and Ohio State dont really find NFL talent on D, right?  haha

They played the 4th hardest SOS in the nation. 

Here is a list of the top D's in the nation last year, look how many teams he faced and tell me more about your theory.  

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

And here is a break down of his strengths and weakness.  Ironically, I was looking for this article because I thought they had a tid bit in here on the D's he faced.  Unfortunately, the article does not mention that...but take a look at who they compare him to.  They must read my posts:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/deshaun-watson?id=2558063

[Gee Andrezzi]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

So top scoring defense's arent good?  FSU and Ohio State dont really find NFL talent on D, right?  haha

They played the 4th hardest SOS in the nation. 

Here is a list of the top D's in the nation last year, look how many teams he faced and tell me more about your theory.  

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

And here is a break down of his strengths and weakness.  Ironically, I was looking for this article because I thought they had a tid bit in here on the D's he faced.  Unfortunately, the article does not mention that...but take a look at who they compare him to.  They must read my posts:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/deshaun-watson?id=2558063

i never said they didn't play good defenses... check my post

since when does Strength of schedule only account for defense? That means the entire team they faced lmfao. Your trying to say Watson faced the 4th highest SOS of defenses? Lmfaoooo

i said they didn't play ELITE defenses all year which they didn't..the list for total defense has maybe 5 of those teams they faced in the top 50 sooo

and your original post said "battle tested...against top scoring defenses" clicking on scoring defenses...that number is about the same maybe 5 teams  in the top 50 sooo...

again...elite defenses is a lot different than scoring defense..VT goes from 18 in scoring defense to 28 in total defense sooo

And they're only comparing him to mariota because of their fluid mobility outside the pocket..mariota was light years ahead of Watson as a progression pocket passer..mariota understood complex defensive schemes coming into the draft. Watson is only rated high cause he's a winner and I'll give him that he makes plays but he's not near as accurate  or smart as mariota as a pocket passer

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Gee Andrezzi said:

i never said they didn't play good defenses... check my post

since when does Strength of schedule only account for defense? That means the entire team they faced lmfao. Your trying to say Watson faced the 4th highest SOS of defenses? Lmfaoooo

i said they didn't play ELITE defenses all year which they didn't..the list for total defense has maybe 5 of those teams they faced in the top 50 sooo

and your original post said "battle tested...against top scoring defenses" clicking on scoring defenses...that number is about the same maybe 5 teams  in the top 50 sooo...

again...elite defenses is a lot different than scoring defense..VT goes from 18 in scoring defense to 28 in total defense sooo

And they're only comparing him to mariota because of their fluid mobility outside the pocket..mariota was light years ahead of Watson as a progression pocket passer..mariota understood complex defensive schemes coming into the draft. Watson is only rated high cause he's a winner and I'll give him that he makes plays but he's not near as accurate  or smart as mariota as a pocket passer

What QB faces "ELITE" defenses week in and week out?  That's a ridiculous statement that not a single QB in the history of college could claim.  Watson faced some of the best D's in the country.  I provided data proving such.  SOS has to do with how good the other team is. Typically your D is considered part of the team.  

Mariota was a progression pocket passer and understood complex defensive schemes, playing in the Pac 12 in Chip Kelly's system?  WTF?  You have to be kidding me.  I think we're done here. 

[Gee Andrezzi]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

What QB faces "ELITE" defenses week in and week out?  That's a ridiculous statement that not a single QB in the history of college could claim.  Watson faced some of the best D's in the country.  I provided data proving such.  SOS has to do with how good the other team is. Typically your D is considered part of the team.  

Mariota was a progression pocket passer and understood complex defensive schemes, playing in the Pac 12 in Chip Kelly's system?  WTF?  You have to be kidding me.  I think we're done here. 

SOS considers all phases meaning offense,defense, special teams td's...you said that part originally not me sooo

and if you watched Gruden's QB camp before the draft he was breaking down and dissecting coverages and where to throw literally right there. Gruden was even impressed himself...and again I say this...only 1 QB so far in the NFL has the same success that mariota had in chip Kelly system, Nick Foles...Sam Bradford was a number 1 pick and he was statistically average at best under chip Kelly ...so clearly mariota he had to know something.

Mariota rookie year was pretty good considering he had literally no weapons... only played 12 games, 61% completion rate 2800 yards,19 tds 10 ints, 91 passer rating

if you think Watson is doing that his rookie year........

Yeaaaa i think we are done

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Gee Andrezzi said:

SOS considers all phases meaning offense,defense, special teams td's...you said that part originally not me sooo

and if you watched Gruden's QB camp before the draft he was breaking down and dissecting coverages and where to throw literally right there. Gruden was even impressed himself...and again I say this...only 1 QB so far in the NFL has the same success that mariota had in chip Kelly system, Nick Foles...Sam Bradford was a number 1 pick and he was statistically average at best under chip Kelly ...so clearly mariota he had to know something.

Mariota rookie year was pretty good considering he had literally no weapons... only played 12 games, 61% completion rate 2800 yards,19 tds 10 ints, 91 passer rating

if you think Watson is doing that his rookie year........

Yeaaaa i think we are done

I'm eagerly awaiting Watson storming out of Gruden's camp because of his inability to "break down complex defensive schemes". 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Gee Andrezzi said:

and if you watched Gruden's QB camp before the draft he was breaking down and dissecting coverages and where to throw literally right there. Gruden was even impressed himself...

The moment that Jon Gruden is not impressed, check his pulse because he is already dead.  Gruden's QB camp is much worse than just watching youtube highlight videos.  He is a one man gush-fest.  Other QBs he loved include Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg.

[Gee Andrezzi]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The moment that Jon Gruden is not impressed, check his pulse because he is already dead.  Gruden's QB camp is much worse than just watching youtube highlight videos.  He is a one man gush-fest.  Other QBs he loved include Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg.

Lmfao Nonetheless, mariota's career stats are 93 passer rating,62% completion, and 45-19 td:int...with less than lackluster receivers as well.... I don't see Watson doing that at all

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Gee Andrezzi said:

Lmfao Nonetheless, mariota's career stats are 93 passer rating,62% completion, and 45-19 td:int...with less than lackluster receivers as well.... I don't see Watson doing that at all

If Gruden doesn't absolutely love Watson I will buy you a beer!

[lambo]

NEVER AT #6

[SMC]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

I like Watson, and would love to see the Jets end up with him. That said, I am not convinced at all that his completion percentage age Clemson translates to the NFL. He is such a run threat in college that defenses are not fast enough to account for him running, and often leave WR's wide open. He is often throwing to receivers without a defender within 10 yards. That will NOT happen in the NFL, and he will have to throw into tighter windows, which is when he tends to throw his interceptions. Drafting Watson at 6 will be a HUGE gamble, that I think is too big to take. I think he is a 2nd round pick, not 1st.

I understand that and, of course, with the dearth of good QBs, there's a QB premium and most of them get overdrafted.  If there were can't miss QB prospects abundantly available, sure, Watson would be a 2nd rounder.  But those don't exist.  We can't have a 1980s or 1990s mindset in ranking players anymore.  There was way more QB talent back then.

As to Watson and the completion percentage, yes, his mobility helped him on his completions, but that's a benefit and it works on the pro level.  Look at Aaron Rodgers.  His mobility behind the line of scrimmage opens up so many of his receivers.  Most of his receivers are wipe open because of him.  Have no clue if Watson's mobility will translate the same. but we can't criticize him for having wide open receivers who were wide open because of him.

[Gee Andrezzi]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm eagerly awaiting Watson storming out of Gruden's camp because of his inability to "break down complex defensive schemes". 

Touché sir....touché

if anything I'd be much more comfy taking kaaya in the 3rd-4th

[UntouchableCrew]

The idea that Clemson didn't play tough defenses is ludicrous, and anyone who tries to make that argument doesn't know their elbow from their @$$ when it comes to college football. The ACC was top to bottom the best conference in college football in 2016, and he had big games against Florida State, Ohio State, and shredded an Alabama defense that is arguably the best in the history of college football, one that will likely see every starter drafted.

If you want to snipe at his turnovers, the fact that he played in a simple read system or the fact that he had tons of offensive talent around him, those are legitimate criticisms. The idea that he didn't produce (and win) against elite competition is 100% false and has zero merit.

[Tinstar]

If used in the same manner initially, Deshaun Watson could do for the team that takes him exactly what Russell Wilson did for the Seahawks when he came into the league .  

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

If used in the same manner initially, Deshaun Watson could do for the team that takes him exactly what Russell Wilson did for the Seahawks when he came into the league .  

Did you know, Russell Wilson threw 26 INT's in 2 years at North Carolina St?

[Tinstar]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Did you know, Russell Wilson threw 26 INT's in 2 years at North Carolina St?

I'm having fun watching you try and convince these naysayers about Watson.  Do you understand yet why I wouldn't want to bring this kid to the Jets ?

[SMC]

4 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I'm having fun watching you try and convince these naysayers about Watson.  Do you understand yet why I wouldn't want to bring this kid to the Jets ?

Because the Jets will ruin him?

[Tinstar]

26 minutes ago, SMC said:

Because the Jets will ruin him?

Has this regime ruined Petty or Hackenberg and if so, how ? 

[SMC]

41 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Has this regime ruined Petty or Hackenberg and if so, how ? 

You have to actually have a chance to be good to be ruined.

I was just taking a wild guess as to why you don't want Watson.  So what is the reason?

[Tinstar]

4 minutes ago, SMC said:

You have to actually have a chance to be good to be ruined.

I was just taking a wild guess as to why you don't want Watson.  So what is the reason?

I would love to have Watson on my team. I just don't want to subject him at this stage of his career to this media and fan base . I have a feeling he could handle it thou .

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, SMC said:

You have to actually have a chance to be good to be ruined.

I was just taking a wild guess as to why you don't want Watson.  So what is the reason?

Jet fan logic:

1st the Jets rushed Sanchez, was ruined, needed more time.  Turned into Sanchez needed to be pushed.  Turns into Sanchez was ruined when Tebow was brought in, playing with Sanchez's head.

Geno was brought in, had to play.  Then it was time to come up with something "new".  Now it was Geno turn, rushed.  Then he needed to sit, was. Came in with 5 games left in his second season, played well but it. Want nothing a year later.  The rush to play Geno apparently ruined him forever, as it did Sanchez.

Fast Forward to 2016.  Draft a one time big time QB prospect and allot him the time to develop. 

Fans find a way to complaint that the Jets don't know what they're doing.

Amazing logic, cover ever angle and just complain about whichever is used 

 

[pointman]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The moment that Jon Gruden is not impressed, check his pulse because he is already dead.  Gruden's QB camp is much worse than just watching youtube highlight videos.  He is a one man gush-fest.  Other QBs he loved include Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg.

Brutal.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Tinstar said:

I'm having fun watching you try and convince these naysayers about Watson.  Do you understand yet why I wouldn't want to bring this kid to the Jets ?

I just think its funny how some of the knocks on Watson also apply to other players who are currently successful in the NFL but with him it's different because well...I'm not quite sure and that's what I'm trying to figure out.  

For example; He threw 30 picks!  Cool.  Winston threw 28, Matt Ryan 29, Russell Wilson 26.  Did you know Dan Marino threw 46 his final 2 years of college?  Different era, I get it...but 46!!!!  Carson Palmer threw 30 picks his Soph/Junior years.  In fact, as a sophomore, he threw less TD's than INT's.  Drew Brees threw 45 INT's over a 3 year period in college.  INT's are bad.  We can all agree on that but they dont tell the whole story and obviously have very little impact on how it translates to the NFL.  If we wanted to, we could flip the script and look at guys like Geno Smith and Tim Tebow who barely threw picks...look at them now.

He's inaccurate!   Except, he holds the all time highest completion percentage in ACC history.  Those dudes still in the league I just mentioned, played in the ACC.  Further, of current NFL QB's, only one completed a higher percentage in college, Teddy Bridgewater.  

He didnt take snaps from under center! Cool, welcome to college Football.

He doesnt have to read the D!  Cool, welcome to college Football.

He doesnt have to go through progressions!  Cool, welcome to college Football.

It's not even that I'm trying convince people, I just dont get it because the logic and statistics being used dont make sense.  I have no clue if Watson is going to succeed at the next level but I personally think it would be foolish to pass up a talent like this based on the silly criteria that people are coming up with that is a knock on him but not his peers.  

[Villain The Foe]

On 3/5/2017 at 5:46 PM, NoBowles said:

I suppose. If dbatesman, Jif and Joewilly12 love him, he must be a great prospect.

He looked pretty good though...didnt he? 

 

On 3/5/2017 at 2:27 PM, NoBowles said:

I like him a lot, in the third round

Looked much better than a 3rd round prospect that you continued to claim his talent was.