Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said: In some ways this is the first year he's been able to strip down the team and build. In 2015 he had to come in and spend a lot of money quickly on a team that had basically nothing working. In 2016 the decision was made (either by Woody or Macc) to roll the dice on the 2015 roster a second year. The team has some foundation in younger players from Macc's first two drafts. Now it's time for him to start putting pieces together. A sh*tty season this year has to come with the promise of a serviceable QB and a strong roster in 2018. Macc is trying to build a system for long term success and that's not going to happen overnight. I can give him some slack that he has tried to stick to that plan when it would have been easier to make moves harder to criticize; however, he can't keep stacking WR and defensive players forever. Not with a declining record every year. The mandate to spend cash does not equal a mandate to sign and trade for expensive veterans on the wrong side of 30. Meanwhile he let younger players dangle, as their pricetags predictably went up a year later. But hey, we picked up/re-signed Revis, Fitzpatrick, Marshall, Cromartie, Harris, McLendon, Jenkins, and Clady. Only McLendon remains, and he missed half the season in his only stint in green & white. Those UFAs he signed or re-signed in 2016 (Fitz, Forte, Powell, McLendon) wiped out 3 draft picks. Someone else may have signed Fitz if we didn't blow out all offers with an open-ended contract for idiotic money the rest of the league laughed at. Those extra draft picks were so unimportant and insignificant, Maccagnan spent the better part of the following year's draft to repeatedly trade down in an effort to get them back. He also failed horribly in some obvious moves that any casual fan would know what to do, like stashing Giacomini on the PUP list instead of just cutting him before the season, or before that signing (as @#27TheDominator recalls now, which we said back when it happened) two non-complementary RBs that each cancelled out a draft pick the following season. He's just not a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 See Sperm will always hate Maccagnan period. Despite facts going against him. A good honest thinker will weight both sides of the issue. Sperm only focuses on the negative. I look at both. Sperm will not concede his solid drafts, given the number of players on his drafts still here and productive compared to Idzik's. I will. I will concede that I have not been a fan of some of Macc's moves as well And I will also say this concerning Sperm's opening statement about mandates. If there is only rotten fruit in the market, and you go into the market with a lot of money, then you are guaranteed to buy rotten fruit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, kdels62 said: Tannenbaum was genuinely great at structuring contracts. Macc just does the expected. I think a big reason Idzik gets no slack while Macc gets some is that Idzik kept Bradway and all that old Tannenbaum personnel. Macc's first draft was very underwhelming but was done on a time crunch with scouting from that old crew. Macc's upheaval of that crew has led to promising drafts with players we don't know yet. We'll have a better idea after this year and you'll be left with few Macc apologists if it doesn't work. Pro-Macc sentiment is basically just people not trying to make snap judgements and holding out hope. Unfortunately, even the bold is a much-repeated myth (or the extent of its significance, anyway). Maccagnan himself was Houston's head scout for the entirety of 2014. Unless he just sat on the toilet liquid-pooping out coffee for that whole season, he had plenty of his own notes and reports on hundreds of players. Further, he hired his head scout (Hogan) in January of 2015. It's not like just looseleaf notebooks and such like in the 1980s that have to be returned when you leave the team. These guys keep this stuff on their own computers, ipads, smart phones, on flash drives, in the cloud, etc. So he had this content from himself, from his Houston scouts that worked under him in '14, as did Hogan. Only a fool would fire existing scouts after their scouting was over, without picking their brains first (after which he could heed or disregard their collective input), and making sure they don't leak who you like to others before the draft comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: See Sperm will always hate Maccagnan period. Despite facts going against him. A good honest thinker will weight both sides of the issue. Sperm only focuses on the negative. I look at both. Sperm will not concede his solid drafts, given the number of players on his drafts still here and productive compared to Idzik's. I will. I will concede that I have not been a fan of some of Macc's moves as well And I will also say this concerning Sperm's opening statement about mandates. If there is only rotten fruit in the market, and you go into the market with a lot of money, then you are guaranteed to buy rotten fruit We should all strive to be more like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: I am a Maccagnan supporter as you know. I went on record of saying that he needed to nail this draft or his job was in danger. And it looks like (right now) that he did indeed nail this draft. You are going to have people who just hate MAccagnan whatever he does. Sperm, dBatesman etc. They just dont like him at all How are you judging it as looking like he nailed this draft? I mean if the mandate is starters, he did lower the bar by cutting the starters at each position of his top 4 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, Sperm Edwards said: We should all strive to be more like you. At least in the sense of being open and fair, man. And to be honest, a few (not all) of your critiques come off as nitpicks. While they might be valid, it feels like you're nitpicking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, #27TheDominator said: How are you judging it as looking like he nailed this draft? I mean if the mandate is starters, he did lower the bar by cutting the starters at each position of his top 4 picks. Well the mandate to me is for the moment, what did the experts think of the draft. And most gave it a positive grade. Now, experts can be wrong, but at the moment, that's all the info we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: At least in the sense of being open and fair, man. And to be honest, a few (not all) of your critiques come off as nitpicks. While they might be valid, it feels like you're nitpicking Yes, we all totally get the sense that you are open and fair. We all want to be you, which is why you're so popular here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, Sperm Edwards said: Yes, we all totally get the sense that you are open and fair. We all want to be you, which is why you're so popular here. Popularity does not equal hero worship. We hate Tom Brady, yet I think all of us would want to be in his place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Yes, we all totally get the sense that you are open and fair. We all want to be you, which is why you're so popular here. not true, i used to want to be him until someone mentioned that his avatar was some dr.who and not anakin skywalker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, whodeawhodat said: not true, i used to want to be him until someone mentioned that his avatar was some dr.who and not anakin skywalker... Why would you want to be Anakin? Unless you;re into Natalie Portman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Why would you want to be Anakin? Unless you;re into Natalie Portman natalie portman + jedi powers = win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdels62 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Unfortunately, even the bold is a much-repeated myth (or the extent of its significance, anyway). Maccagnan himself was Houston's head scout for the entirety of 2014. Unless he just sat on the toilet liquid-pooping out coffee for that whole season, he had plenty of his own notes and reports on hundreds of players. Further, he hired his head scout (Hogan) in January of 2015. It's not like just looseleaf notebooks and such like in the 1980s that have to be returned when you leave the team. These guys keep this stuff on their own computers, ipads, smart phones, on flash drives, in the cloud, etc. So he had this content from himself, from his Houston scouts that worked under him in '14, as did Hogan. Only a fool would fire existing scouts after their scouting was over, without picking their brains first (after which he could heed or disregard their collective input), and making sure they don't leak who you like to others before the draft comes up. He can't take his scouting reports with him and considering how many scouts these teams employ it's not unreasonable to believe he used half information compared to what he would normally want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, whodeawhodat said: natalie portman + jedi powers = win Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Fair enough. plus being a sith lord and not having to use my jedi powers for good all the time fits better with my code of ethics. I crave adventure and excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: Popularity does not equal hero worship. We hate Tom Brady, yet I think all of us would want to be in his place I will keep my own hair, my masculinity and my moral high ground. Thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 hours ago, gEYno said: Which kicked off with doubling down at the most important position in today's NFL... Safety! we need to encase Woody in amber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, kdels62 said: He can't take his scouting reports with him and considering how many scouts these teams employ it's not unreasonable to believe he used half information compared to what he would normally want. So you believe all his reports were on paper, nothing was scanned or stored elsewhere in anticipation of taking a job with another team, he remembered very little of that season (the entirety of which he spent as an NFL head scout), and the same goes for his hand-picked Jets head scout? Mmm-kay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Popularity does not equal hero worship. We hate Tom Brady, yet I think all of us would want to be in his place I'm very happy where I am, love my family, and wouldn't trade it for anyone else's just because they're more famous or may have more money. I wish the same for you someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: So you believe all his reports were on paper, nothing was scanned or stored elsewhere in anticipation of taking a job with another team, he remembered very little of that season (the entirety of which he spent as an NFL head scout), and the same goes for his hand-picked Jets head scout? Mmm-kay. IMO, that would be another blemish. Scouts should be Machiavellian enough to keep a personal copy of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said: plus being a sith lord and not having to use my jedi powers for good all the time fits better with my code of ethics. I crave adventure and excitement. Well then you'd have made the right choice, because a muppet once said that a jedi craves not these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: Well then you'd have made the right choice, because a muppet once said that a jedi craves not these things. choose wisely, my words i do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: IMO, that would be another blemish. Scouts should be Machiavellian enough to keep a personal copy of everything. Particularly head scouts with an eye on promotion. Since a GM or higher FO job would be the next step up, and it may come with another team, any fool would have his own copies of these things. It seems the story is he didn't because he knows less than a fool, and that being this sub-foolish is a valid excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdels62 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: So you believe all his reports were on paper, nothing was scanned or stored elsewhere in anticipation of taking a job with another team, he remembered very little of that season (the entirety of which he spent as an NFL head scout), and the same goes for his hand-picked Jets head scout? Mmm-kay. I believe I don't know the rules of scouting and their reports as property of a team rather than an individual. If you do and aren't just making assumptions then you're point is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 28 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: At least in the sense of being open and fair, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: I'm very happy where I am, love my family, and wouldn't trade it for anyone else's just because they're more famous or may have more money. I wish the same for you someday. I would definitely trade my wife for more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I have have copies of reports on tons of these guys. Me. In case you are wondering, I do not work in an NFL front office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I too believe that all criticisms of a team in the conversation for the #1 overall pick heading into the 3rd season is nitpicking. When you think about it, this is good and Mac is doing good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 10 hours ago, T0mShane said: What are the good moves? Have the cuts resulted in a lot of dead money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 16 hours ago, Marshmello said: I can't stand Adam Schefter. I thought Polian and Saturday did a good job on breaking down the Jets recent moves and not automatically bash them. i finally watched this. i don't know what revis shefter was looking at but it was plenty clear that revis did not play well last season and certainly not up to his salary. i also noticed they didn't say word 1 about the dolt tanking for luck. i think saturday was playing his final season during the tank year. the points by polian are spot on. the vets were just not playing up to their pay grade and their presence was holding the younger guys back. from this standpoint the jets are doing the right thing. they were 5-11 with revis, mangold, clady, gilchrist, marshall, fitz et al and they can be 5-11 without them. so why keep them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 11 hours ago, T0mShane said: Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place. This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose. Why do people keep saying this? Macc HAD TO spend the money. And he structured it intentionally in a way he could escape after 2 years which is what he is doing. The signings were almost entirely tied to the CBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Some of the moves I think you can give him a pass on (Cromartie, revis to some extent, Harris to a lesser extent) because when ownership wants you to do something its pretty impossible to say no. The more egregious signings came last year with the 2 year guarantee for Forte, the overpay on Fitz and Wilkerson, etc... As of right now the only real differences between he and Idzik are Macs attempt to rebuild on the fly while Idzik just went full rebuild from day 1 and the fact that he didnt have that press conference that cost Idzik his job. Beyond that its the same problem that has plagued this team since 2009- the drafting is atrocious and you cant get better until you get young guys in place. The drafts are certainly questionable on every level. For however good Williams may be there is no doubt the Jets would have been a better team with Beasley simply because of the fit. Nobody in the world saw the Hack attack as a 2nd rounder. He targeted two safeties this year and wasted a 1st round pick on an ILB? You go back to the last Idzik draft and our positional approach in the first two rounds has gone S, TE, DT/DE, WR, ILB, QB, S, S. Thats a touch way to build a winning franchise and you are opening yourself up to having to find corners, offensive linemen, and edge rushers all in free agency. Those positions are either way overpriced or the players never hit free agency in the first place. Thats how you end up with a Buster Skrine on a contract like the one he has or the Clady/Beachum run at tackle. Like with Idzik its hard to see what the vision is here. So much comes as seat of your pants decision making. Try and trade Mo all offseason then one night decide to make him the highest paid player at his position. Hold firm on Fitzpatrick for months then sign him to a $12M contract. Signing McCown to be the QB and then saying its a young team full of opportunity? Have the coach use Decker and Harris as leaders all offseason than change course in June and cut them when it should have been done in February or at the least before workouts began. Would anyone be stunned if out of nowhere they extended Sheldon Richardson after trying to trade him for over a year? I wouldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 16 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said: Have the cuts resulted in a lot of dead money? Just $18 million in dead cap room (2nd most in the NFL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 15 hours ago, johnnysd said: Why do people keep saying this? Macc HAD TO spend the money. And he structured it intentionally in a way he could escape after 2 years which is what he is doing. The signings were almost entirely tied to the CBA But a lot of those contracts weren't 2 year deals (Revis, Wilk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 8 hours ago, thadude said: Just $18 million in dead cap room (2nd most in the NFL) Sure, but only a little over $13M of it came from guys he signed over the past 2 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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