How to build an offensive line - by Macc

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Interim general manager has taken exactly one offensive lineman ever with a high draft pick and it literally required a freak incident with a gas mask bong for it even to have happened that time.

Wake me up when you figure out Maccagnan wasn't the only or first or second problem either.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

On 5/18/2019 at 6:17 AM, Nixhead said:

The thing is -  I bet Macc never even was a football coach on any level - ever! How does this guy move up to GM of an NFL team never being a football coach. I know because I coached AAU and Pop Warner - which now sucks - AAU is real football - I coached for 6 years. The first thing they teach you down here in Florida is the most important position on the field is your O-Line! The big boys. I spent hours and hours putting these kids thru drills. AAU had special coaches that would go to all their teams and go over O-Line blocking basics and techniques and drills and this started when the kids were 6 and 7 years old. If Macc ever did any coaching he would know. He never did and he doesn't know and he should of never been our GM.

You’re absolutely correct.

If you missed it, it is now known that Houston was about to fire him from being a Scout.  How this guy was even a Scout is a mystery.  But Woody must have been giving more time over to politics, didn’t do proper due diligence on Maccagnan, and Casserly was able to shoe horn his idiot buddy through the back door as not a Scout, but upped all the way to GM.  That’s way messed up on Casserly’s part.

He was with Houston something like 15 years.  In that whole time period they NEVER had a QB.

I’m still waiting for an answer.  Who were his major hits in Houston? where someone considering him for a promotion to GM would evaluate and say,”Oh yeah he found this guy, and this guy, great catch finding this guy etc”...I still don’t know haha

Also, it’s now known that Maccagnan spent the time in which he was allowed to pick 5 years of Drafts locked in his office watching college tape.

Its a good bet that he spent more time during that 5 draft time period analyzing tape than ANY other GM in the NFL, because most GMs are you know “doing GM things”, not Maccagnan.  That’s like being able to “study for the test” 10x longer than your peers and you not only FAIL, but get the lowest grade in the class.

So with ALL THAT TIME SPENT, how in the f**k could this guy WHIFF ON ABOUT 90% OF HIS DRAFT PICKS????? Hahaha...a shoeshine kid who watched his 1st football game last week could have closed his eyes and done better than Maccagnan.

Also, I’m not surprised in the least at Gase becoming apoplectic with this guy not being able to make a decision.  He has that look written all over him.

I’m so ecstatic Darnold’s play going forward is not going to save this guy.  That’s what I was predicting....Maccagnan with the job another 10 years because he lucked into Darnold falling to 3.

Now thinking back, I recall actually being worried that Maccagnan would pick another QB and not Darnold....can you blame me?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You’re absolutely correct.

If you missed it, it is now known that Houston was about to fire him from being a Scout.  How this guy was even a Scout is a mystery.  But Woody must have been giving more time over to politics, didn’t do proper due diligence on Maccagnan, and Casserly was able to shoe horn his idiot buddy through the back door as not a Scout, but upped all the way to GM.  That’s way messed up on Casserly’s part.

He was with Houston something like 15 years.  In that whole time period they NEVER had a QB.

I’m still waiting for an answer.  Who were his major hits in Houston? where someone considering him for a promotion to GM would evaluate and say,”Oh yeah he found this guy, and this guy, great catch finding this guy etc”...I still don’t know haha

Also, it’s now known that Maccagnan spent the time in which he was allowed to pick 5 years of Drafts locked in his office watching college tape.

Its a good bet that he spent more time during that 5 draft time period analyzing tape than ANY other GM in the NFL, because most GMs are you know “doing GM things”, not Maccagnan.  That’s like being able to “study for the test” 10x longer than your peers and you not only FAIL, but get the lowest grade in the class.

So with ALL THAT TIME SPENT, how in the f**k could this guy WHIFF ON ABOUT 90% OF HIS DRAFT PICKS????? Hahaha...a shoeshine kid who watched his 1st football game last week could have closed his eyes and done better than Maccagnan.

Also, I’m not surprised in the least at Gase becoming apoplectic with this guy not being able to make a decision.  He has that look written all over him.

I’m so ecstatic Darnold’s play going forward is not going to save this guy.  That’s what I was predicting....Maccagnan with the job another 10 years because he lucked into Darnold falling to 3.

Now thinking back, I recall actually being worried that Maccagnan would pick another QB and not Darnold....can you blame me?

Yes. Not for that but for all sorts of other things.

[Nixhead]

13 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You’re absolutely correct.

If you missed it, it is now known that Houston was about to fire him from being a Scout.  How this guy was even a Scout is a mystery.  But Woody must have been giving more time over to politics, didn’t do proper due diligence on Maccagnan, and Casserly was able to shoe horn his idiot buddy through the back door as not a Scout, but upped all the way to GM.  That’s way messed up on Casserly’s part.

He was with Houston something like 15 years.  In that whole time period they NEVER had a QB.

I’m still waiting for an answer.  Who were his major hits in Houston? where someone considering him for a promotion to GM would evaluate and say,”Oh yeah he found this guy, and this guy, great catch finding this guy etc”...I still don’t know haha

Also, it’s now known that Maccagnan spent the time in which he was allowed to pick 5 years of Drafts locked in his office watching college tape.

Its a good bet that he spent more time during that 5 draft time period analyzing tape than ANY other GM in the NFL, because most GMs are you know “doing GM things”, not Maccagnan.  That’s like being able to “study for the test” 10x longer than your peers and you not only FAIL, but get the lowest grade in the class.

So with ALL THAT TIME SPENT, how in the f**k could this guy WHIFF ON ABOUT 90% OF HIS DRAFT PICKS????? Hahaha...a shoeshine kid who watched his 1st football game last week could have closed his eyes and done better than Maccagnan.

Also, I’m not surprised in the least at Gase becoming apoplectic with this guy not being able to make a decision.  He has that look written all over him.

I’m so ecstatic Darnold’s play going forward is not going to save this guy.  That’s what I was predicting....Maccagnan with the job another 10 years because he lucked into Darnold falling to 3.

Now thinking back, I recall actually being worried that Maccagnan would pick another QB and not Darnold....can you blame me?

You know what? Mac even looked unsure of himself when he picked Darnold! He was like "I think were gonna go with Darnold here - is that OK with u kids?" Of course he wasn't really asking the kids but he kinda did want their approval. Not sure if anyone seen that video of the war room after the Giants made their pick. But this guy should of said 2 seconds after the Giants went with Barkley - " Put Darnold on the card and turn it in immediately before the Giants change their mind"!

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Interim general manager has taken exactly one offensive lineman ever with a high draft pick and it literally required a freak incident with a gas mask bong for it even to have happened that time.

Wake me up when you figure out Maccagnan wasn't the only or first or second problem either.

The first problem is, and always has been, ownership.  I've never disputed this.

[bitonti]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yep. You have to invest high picks on OTs.  

 

there are no high picks on OT anymore 

jonah williams went 11th 

[Jetsfan80]

34 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there are no high picks on OT anymore 

jonah williams went 11th 

11th isn't a "high pick"? 

Admittedly, its tougher for teams to evaluate OT's because of all the Spread/RPO offenses in college football.  But if/when the next bonafide LT comes out, you can almost guarantee he'll be a top 5 pick. 

Just as recently as 2016, Ronnie Stanley went 6th to the Ravens.  In 2015 the Redskins took Scherff # 5 with the ill-fated hope he'd be an OT.  Who knows how high Laremy Tunsil (# 13) would have gone in 2016 if it hadn't been for the weed video. And last year the 49ers took Mike McGlinchey 9th.  There's always a team out there looking for the next franchise LT.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

11th isn't a "high pick"? 

Admittedly, its tougher for teams to evaluate OT's because of all the Spread/RPO offenses in college football.  But if/when the next bonafide LT comes out, you can almost guarantee he'll be a top 5 pick. 

Just as recently as 2016, Ronnie Stanley went 6th to the Ravens.  In 2015 the Redskins took Scherff # 5 with the ill-fated hope he'd be an OT.  Who knows how high Laremy Tunsil (# 13) would have gone in 2016 if it hadn't been for the weed video. And last year the 49ers took Mike McGlinchey 9th.  There's always a team out there looking for the next franchise LT.

there are teams looking but College isn't making the same product

those picks you listed were all driven up due to scarcity. I think Jonah Williams can't actually play LT and probably was overdrafted by 10 slots or so 

There aren't Orlando Pace or Jon Ogden types anymore, and there aren't even Tyron Smith or Trent Williams types. Teams take right tackles with top 10 picks and guards like Scherff and Nelson  the Pats are about to start Isaiah Wynn at left tackle a guy many thought would project to guard 

Mac is gone but his plan to use a 3rd on Edoga and develop him is better than reaching on a first round bust.  and the rules have changed every year so what the QB does in the first 3 seconds is way more important than what the line does 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

there are teams looking but College isn't making the same product

those picks you listed were all driven up due to scarcity. I think Jonah Williams can't actually play LT and probably was overdrafted by 10 slots or so  

There aren't Orlando Pace or Jon Ogden types anymore, and there aren't even Tyron Smith or Trent Williams types. Teams take right tackles with top 10 picks and guards like Scherff and Nelson  the Pats are about to start Isaiah Wynn at left tackle a guy many thought would project to guard 

Mac is gone but his plan to use a 3rd on Edoga and develop him is better than reaching on a first round bust.  and the rules have changed every year so what the QB does in the first 3 seconds is way more important than what the line does 

The Pats are always the anomaly.  They can start JAGs across their OL and always be fine. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Pats are always the anomaly.  They can start JAGs across their OL and always be fine. 

the anomaly won 6 championships including the last one

serious question who had a better OLine than the Rams last year? 

I love lines but when it comes down to brass tax, they don't matter as much as the QB does 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

the anomaly won 6 championships including the last one

serious question who had a better OLine than the Rams last year? 

I love lines but when it comes down to brass tax, they don't matter as much as the QB does 

And the 30 for 30 that comes out a few years from now talking about all the ways the Pats cheated that we don't know about currently will be stellar.

Patriots/Brady = Lance Armstrong. 

My point was that you can't use the Patriots as evidence that investing in OL doesn't matter.  The Eagles invested in OL more than anyone starting in 2016 and it played a big role for that team in winning a Super Bowl over those Pats with Foles under Center. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And the 30 for 30 that comes out a few years from now talking about all the ways the Pats cheated that we don't know about currently will be stellar.

Patriots/Brady = Lance Armstrong. 

 My point was that you can't use the Patriots as evidence that investing in OL doesn't matter.  The Eagles invested in OL more than anyone starting in 2016 and it played a big role for that team in winning a Super Bowl over those Pats with Foles under Center. 

The Eagles invested in QB more than anyone starting in 2015 and it played a big role for that team in winning a super bowl over those Pats with Halapoulivaati Vaitai at left tackle and Wentz on the bench.

Wheeeeeeeeee.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

  The Eagles invested in OL more than anyone starting in 2016 and it played a big role for that team in winning a Super Bowl over those Pats with Foles under Center. 

Jason Kelce was a 2011 6th rd pick and that's a good example of why you don't need to use a high pick on centers. 

Lane Johnson was a 1.4 pick in 2013 who bloomed into an All-Pro in 2017. That's another example of the type of athlete the draft doesn't produce anymore. there hasn't been a prospect as good as lane Johnson for 6 years, that's a shortage 

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jason Kelce was a 2011 6th rd pick and that's a good example of why you don't need to use a high pick on centers. 

Lane Johnson was a 1.4 pick in 2013 who bloomed into an All-Pro in 2017. That's another example of the type of athlete the draft doesn't produce anymore. there hasn't been a prospect as good as lane Johnson for 6 years, that's a shortage 

The Rams took 9 OL from 2015-present.  We took 3. 

I don't care WHERE in the draft these guys get taken.  But you have to take them. 

[Jetsplayer21]

On 5/18/2019 at 10:26 AM, Creepy Lurker said:

?This is spot on exactly how mac has handled the Oline from yr one. He knew OL doesn’t generate points for his fantasy team ?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Rams took 9 OL from 2015-present.  We took 3. 

I don't care WHERE in the draft these guys get taken.  But you have to take them. 

There are lots of things you have to do through the draft. The problem with only looking at recent history is that while nobody else has a roster like New England's that has been so well-managed over the long term that it's just a matter of routine maintenance and what they need to keep the pipeline going is always going to be there, they're not starting from where Tannenbaum left off either. The decisions have been suboptimal and they're probably running below expectation even at that, but by the time you actually get enough picks in to reasonably account for everything, you're already into extension decision time on the earliest ones. Add in having to be some semblance of competitive in the meantime, against teams that don't have to make choices like pass on three starters or risk losing out on Mayfield/Darnold, and it's hard to get out from under.

[Jetsplayer21]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Rams took 9 OL from 2015-present.  We took 3. 

I don't care WHERE in the draft these guys get taken.  But you have to take them. 

Agree you have to draft them. But in my opinion, and I’m sure it can be measured somehow, OL is one the most predictable position you draft. I think winters has been what you would expect from a 3rd rounder. Shell what you would of a 4 or fifth rounder..   Cowboys drafted many first round OLs in past 8-10 years ? Why they are always near top in OL rankings. The colts wanted Q Nelson badly. Kid was said to be a cant miss beast. Already proved that yr 1.. would like to see Next yr draft like 08, dbrick and mangold prime picks. Then hopefully that will be 2 studs on OL that can bond with darnold for next 10 years 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I think winters has been what you would expect from a 3rd rounder. Shell what you would of a 4 or fifth rounder..

You think wrong, illustrating the additional problem of having to placate people whose expectations are based on wild guesses instead of information readily available via wikipedia and ourlads. Winters and Shell are both +ev with respect to where they were drafted and neither one is an especially close call.

[Jetsplayer21]

6 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You think wrong, illustrating the additional problem of having to placate people whose expectations are based on wild guesses instead of information readily available via wikipedia and ourlads. Winters and Shell are both +ev with respect to where they were drafted and neither one is an especially close call.

You are a lil slow huh boy ?‍♂️??

[Philc1]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:51 AM, bitonti said:

there are no high picks on OT anymore 

jonah williams went 11th 

Disagree if there would have been an elite LT prospect in this draft he would have gone top 5

 

Jonah was just not elite

 

[Philc1]

On 5/22/2019 at 12:49 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

The Rams took 9 OL from 2015-present.  We took 3. 

I don't care WHERE in the draft these guys get taken.  But you have to take them. 

They also signed Whitworth when he was a UFA and Mac could have signed him

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Agree you have to draft them. But in my opinion, and I’m sure it can be measured somehow, OL is one the most predictable position you draft. I think winters has been what you would expect from a 3rd rounder. Shell what you would of a 4 or fifth rounder..   Cowboys drafted many first round OLs in past 8-10 years ? Why they are always near top in OL rankings. The colts wanted Q Nelson badly. Kid was said to be a cant miss beast. Already proved that yr 1.. would like to see Next yr draft like 08, dbrick and mangold prime picks. Then hopefully that will be 2 studs on OL that can bond with darnold for next 10 years 

Yes and no

 

There have been some pretty horrific top draft pick OL busts over the years.  When I look at OL I look at footwork, size and nastiness

 

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Disagree if there would have been an elite LT prospect in this draft he would have gone top 5

 

Jonah was just not elite

 

when's the last elite OT prospect

it's been quite a while 

longer than the gap between elite QB prospects

elite OT's are the draft's rarest commodity right now