Best move of the first round

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

yes, comparing a game against a so-called "basketball school" (your words, not mine) and a game against the NCAA champion is definitely an apples-to-apples comparison ?

I really don't  know where you are going with this but whatever. You seemed convinced USC and TN. Were a step away from the Rose Bowl. 

[Mogglez]

“Wilson is a one year wonder, that nobody was talking about prior to this year!”

“Ok, but he played a weak schedule!!!”

 

[isired]

Look, it's  definitely  a knock on the guy or Red Flag as being discussed. If you don't  want to consider it, that's  on you. This is not something other people haven't pointed out. BYU was the Clemsom or Bama of the WAC. 
 

It's not really a knock or a red flag, it just means it's harder to evaluate. I have a friend in baseball scouting who told me this, applies just as well here:

This is a fact, a known fact to scouts and other player personnel people:

Playing a lower level of competition doesn't mean a player is not as good as his counterpart. It means it's harder to evaluate his talent. You have to look harder at the technique, the physical traits, the great plays, the mistakes. That's all.

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

“Wilson is a one year wonder, that nobody was talking about prior to this year!”

“Ok, but he played a weak schedule!!!”

 

If this guy were drafted by a lot of other teams we wouldn’t hear it.  

I had dinner with a big pats fan the other day, he immediately says ‘wilson sucks’ but hadn’t seen a highlight or anything.  Just said ‘his competition level sucked’ as if that’s enough evidence in a court of law.  They said that about josh allen too.

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

And I believe you are incorrect  calling the Vols and USC good teams when they played BYU.

they were power 5 conference teams with winning records that went to bowl games.  USC finished the season ranked #22 in the CFP final rankings, #30 in the coaches poll and #31 in the AP poll.  tenn. finished #34/35 in those later two polls.  not elite, but not sisters of the poor or whatever pejorative wilson critics ascribe to his competition in 2020.

wilson also played washington and utah in 2019 (both ranked teams at the time), although wilson struggled against utah (21/33, 208 yds, 2 Int in opening week) and had an ok game against washington (26/42, 277 yards, 1 TD, 1 Int in a loss).  BYU also played a ranked Boise St. team, but wilson was out with an injury

 

[More Cowbell]

30 minutes ago, isired said:

It's not really a knock or a red flag, it just means it's harder to evaluate. I have a friend in baseball scouting who told me this, applies just as well here:

This is a fact, a known fact to scouts and other player personnel people:

Playing a lower level of competition doesn't mean a player is not as good as his counterpart. It means it's harder to evaluate his talent. You have to look harder at the technique, the physical traits, the great plays, the mistakes. That's all.

I really don't  agree. It is much easier to look good even great when you face inferior  talent. This is not to say I think Zack is without talent, he has an amazing arm and very good down field accuracy  but the cosmetic s are not going to be as easy now and nor the protection he gets. Hoping for the best. 

[DetroitRed]

I love what the Seahawks did

[More Cowbell]

23 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

they were power 5 conference teams with winning records that went to bowl games.  USC finished the season ranked #22 in the CFP final rankings, #30 in the coaches poll and #31 in the AP poll.  tenn. finished #34/35 in those later two polls.  not elite, but not sisters of the poor or whatever pejorative wilson critics ascribe to his competition in 2020.

wilson also played washington and utah in 2019 (both ranked teams at the time), although wilson struggled against utah (21/33, 208 yds, 2 Int in opening week) and had an ok game against washington (26/42, 277 yards, 1 TD, 1 Int in a loss).  BYU also played a ranked Boise St. team, but wilson was out with an injury

 

Look, we don't  agree. It is my opinion when you are rated that low, a bad game means you lose. Bama, LSU, Ohio St. Can all have substandard games and knock the snot out of a competitor.  You said yourself Wilson put up very pedestrian numbers in those two games so something else played into the wins. 

[jetblue95]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Look, we don't  agree. It is my opinion when you are rated that low, a bad game means you lose. Bama, LSU, Ohio St. Can all have substandard games and knock the snot out of a competitor.  You said yourself Wilson put up very pedestrian numbers in those two games so something else played into the wins. 

 

oddly, there are very few starting or highly drafted QBs in the NFL from 'Bama, Ohio State and LSU.  point is best college teams don't necessarily produce the best nfl QBs.

[More Cowbell]

15 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

oddly, there are very few starting or highly drafted QBs in the NFL from 'Bama, Ohio State and LSU.  point is best college teams don't necessarily produce the best nfl QBs.

So now we go from Wilson beating two weak teams in USC and Tn. in 2019 to LSU, Bama, and Ohio St. Not producing good QB's which is a questionable statement considering a slew of good even great pro QB's from Bama and LSU just producing Burrow. 

Any other subjects you feel like bringing up that have no bearing on the competition  Wilson faced?

[JohnnyLV]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

So now we go from Wilson beating two weak teams in USC and Tn. in 2019 to LSU, Bama, and Ohio St. Not producing good QB's which is a questionable statement considering a slew of good even great pro QB's from Bama and LSU just producing Burrow. 

Any other subjects you feel like bringing up that have no bearing on the competition  Wilson faced?

Here is the reality:

Tenn and USC were games before Wilson broke his hand tackling of all things.

When teams watched those games they saw the same traits in those games that he showed in 2020, which told them that Wilson was NOT a one year wonder and as talented as he seemed even against better competition. When he came back and played with a partially healed hand he struggled. 

Essentially every one in the NFL thought Zach Wilson was the #2 or even #1 QB prospect, and as seen in the draft, Fields was so poorly regarded he was passed by QB needy teams. Gilk Brandt, who liked Fields a lot said a lot of NFL teams did not have a first round grade on him.

Yet, you want us to accept that your evaluation of Fields>Wilson is the one that is right.

No one knows. They could both bust.

But pretty much everything in the evaluation process and backed up by QBASE points to Wilson being the much better prospect. And he was drafted accordingly.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Here is the reality:

Tenn and USC were games before Wilson broke his hand tackling of all things.

When teams watched those games they saw the same traits in those games that he showed in 2020, which told them that Wilson was NOT a one year wonder and as talented as he seemed even against better competition. When he came back and played with a partially healed hand he struggled. 

Essentially every one in the NFL thought Zach Wilson was the #2 or even #1 QB prospect, and as seen in the draft, Fields was so poorly regarded he was passed by QB needy teams. Gilk Brandt, who liked Fields a lot said a lot of NFL teams did not have a first round grade on him.

Yet, you want us to accept that your evaluation of Fields>Wilson is the one that is right.

No one knows. They could both bust.

But pretty much everything in the evaluation process and backed up by QBASE points to Wilson being the much better prospect. And he was drafted accordingly.

From what I watched they are both immensely  talented. I think Wilson can finally  be a QB of the future  for us but I still would have preferred Feilds. I have seen what fast QB like Jackson can do and Fields is a much better passer. Just my preference. 

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

So now we go from Wilson beating two weak teams in USC and Tn. in 2019 to LSU, Bama, and Ohio St. Not producing good QB's which is a questionable statement considering a slew of good even great pro QB's from Bama and LSU just producing Burrow. 

Any other subjects you feel like bringing up that have no bearing on the competition  Wilson faced?

 

i've outlined how your comment about wilson playing 1 good team was wrong.  just because you refuse to admit this doesn't make it so.  i grant he didn't play the same schedule as fields.  means nothing as to how he will turn out as a pro.

YOU are the one who brought up how his schedule doesn't compare to LSU, OSU and 'bama.  i responded that those schools may have great college players, but haven't really translated to many NFL QBs.  outside of burrows, name me 1 good QB from LSU?  same for ohio state?  as to alabama, i'm not talking joe namath & ken stabler.  yeah, tua was a high pick.  jury is still out on him.  hurts started at alabama, but really played at oklahoma.  then you got guys like mccarron and mcelroy.  not exactly a slew of good, let alone great, QBs.

now this doesn't mean fields or even mac jones will not be good, or even great, pros.  just that the nature of them playing at the top schools against a top schedule is not predictive of future nfl success.  

[JohnnyLV]

30 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

From what I watched they are both immensely  talented. I think Wilson can finally  be a QB of the future  for us but I still would have preferred Feilds. I have seen what fast QB like Jackson can do and Fields is a much better passer. Just my preference. 

Entitled to you opinion but did you mean much better "runner"? Few seem to think Fields is a better passer. Fields as a prospect scares the crap out of me. I think he will be good but would not be surprised if he is pretty awful.

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

i've outlined how your comment about wilson playing 1 good team was wrong.  just because you refuse to admit this doesn't make it so.  i grant he didn't play the same schedule as fields.  means nothing as to how he will turn out as a pro.

YOU are the one who brought up how his schedule doesn't compare to LSU, OSU and 'bama.  i responded that those schools may have great college players, but haven't really translated to many NFL QBs.  outside of burrows, name me 1 good QB from LSU?  same for ohio state?  as to alabama, i'm not talking joe namath & ken stabler.  yeah, tua was a high pick.  jury is still out on him.  hurts started at alabama, but really played at oklahoma.  then you got guys like mccarron and mcelroy.  not exactly a slew of good, let alone great, QBs.

now this doesn't mean fields or even mac jones will not be good, or even great, pros.  just that the nature of them playing at the top schools against a top schedule is not predictive of future nfl success.  

Ok, I really am done with you twisting things up. I don't  think I ever commented on the players, I just implied they are great college programs. 

You can have the last word, I won't  respond. 

[More Cowbell]

55 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Entitled to you opinion but did you mean much better "runner"? Few seem to think Fields is a better passer. Fields as a prospect scares the crap out of me. I think he will be good but would not be surprised if he is pretty awful.

I think Fields is a much more accurate  passer. I remember how poorly Jackson did in the  QB challenge. 

[JohnnyLV]

33 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think Fields is a much more accurate  passer. I remember how poorly Jackson did in the  QB challenge. 

ahh better passer than Jackson, got it.

[isired]

I really don't  agree. It is much easier to look good even great when you face inferior  talent. This is not to say I think Zack is without talent, he has an amazing arm and very good down field accuracy  but the cosmetic s are not going to be as easy now and nor the protection he gets. Hoping for the best. 

Right, but looking good or great against inferior talent doesn't make you inferior. If Pat Mahomes goes out and dominates Manalapan HS JV, he's still Pat Mahomes. If you didn't know him prior, you'd have a harder time being sure of how good he is, but he'd still be exactly how good he is.

His point is, the lesser competition doesn't make him a lesser prospect. He might be, or he might be the best prospect. It's just harder to evaluate, whereas a blue chip prospect vs blue chip competition is easier to see what he is.