Best move of the first round

[THE BARON]

On 5/2/2021 at 5:00 AM, Philc1 said:

Zero logic. The giants defense is horrible and I don’t like their OL

 

They’re not going to be good

I think their big problem is Daniel Jones.  Zero pocket awareness.  Although he has an excellent arm along with accurate ball placement, the pocket awareness issue isn't going away. He has more give-away's than any player in the league and it is sure to continue.  They are going to lose at least 3 games that they should have won due to his turnovers.  

[Morrissey]

Vikings. Trading down to 23, getting two additional 3rd rounders and arguably getting a better prospect than we did.

[slimjasi]

On 5/2/2021 at 4:00 AM, Philc1 said:

Zero logic. The giants defense is horrible and I don’t like their OL

 

They’re not going to be good

Weren't they top 10 in team defense? 

Horrible is a bit of a . . . stretch

Edit: 12th in yards allowed. 

[johnnysd]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:24 AM, More Cowbell said:

I would say it was the Bears.  They have been looking for a QB since McMahon.  I think Fields is going to be great. 

Here is what I think: The NFL did not really like Fields and like Trubisky even where he was taken Fields was a solid reach. Think of this-

the 49ers didnt even remotely consider him.

Both Carolina and Denver passed on him. For free. Says a LOT about his grade.

Look college football results have little to do with NFL success. Fields has by far the most question marks of any of the top 5 QBs. He has a fairly large bust potential. People get upset when it is said, but he just does not process the game as fast as successful NFL QBs do and he has a slow extended release, both 2 of the many red flags for Fields.

I do think he will be good. I do not think he will be elite. Best move of the night was the Jets taking Wilson

[More Cowbell]

5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Here is what I think: The NFL did not really like Fields and like Trubisky even where he was taken Fields was a solid reach. Think of this-

the 49ers didnt even remotely consider him.

Both Carolina and Denver passed on him. For free. Says a LOT about his grade.

Look college football results have little to do with NFL success. Fields has by far the most question marks of any of the top 5 QBs. He has a fairly large bust potential. People get upset when it is said, but he just does not process the game as fast as successful NFL QBs do and he has a slow extended release, both 2 of the many red flags for Fields.

I do think he will be good. I do not think he will be elite. Best move of the night was the Jets taking Wilson

You really opened Pandora's box here.

Wilson has as many Red flags as any QB I have seen. One year wonder, played against sub par competition,  never faced a real pass rush and the one game he did, he lost. I could go on. As for Carolina,  did you really think they traded 3 picks for Darnold so they can use a high first round pick on a QB? The strange thing is they took a DB instead of an O player to support  Darnold. At least they got him help later in the draft.

As for Denver, Elway is one of the worst GM's in the league. I have no idea why he still has a job. Unless he has an ownership stake I'm not aware he should be shown the door. 

Fields is as sound a pick as any of the QB's selected. 

[jetblue95]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You really opened Pandora's box here.

Wilson has as many Red flags as any QB I have seen. One year wonder, played against sub par competition,  never faced a real pass rush and the one game he did, he lost. I could go on.

 

you do realize that wilson played 3 years.

in 2019 he beat both tennessee (19-29, 232 yards, 1 TD) and USC (20-33, 280 yards, 1 TD).  granted these aren't earth shattering numbers.  but he beat 2 teams with decidedly more talent

[jetblue95]

7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

 

As for Denver, Elway is one of the worst GM's in the league. I have no idea why he still has a job. 

 

 

elway is not the GM.  they hired george paton this year, a man who twice turned down requests by the jets to interview him for a GM opening

[johnnysd]

54 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You really opened Pandora's box here.

Wilson has as many Red flags as any QB I have seen. One year wonder, played against sub par competition,  never faced a real pass rush and the one game he did, he lost. I could go on. As for Carolina,  did you really think they traded 3 picks for Darnold so they can use a high first round pick on a QB? The strange thing is they took a DB instead of an O player to support  Darnold. At least they got him help later in the draft.

As for Denver, Elway is one of the worst GM's in the league. I have no idea why he still has a job. Unless he has an ownership stake I'm not aware he should be shown the door. 

Fields is as sound a pick as any of the QB's selected. 

We can just disagree on Fields and Wilson. Fields is a far riskier prospect. And the compeition argument is just lame and trite.

[jetstream23]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:27 AM, Ghost420 said:

Most giants fans hate the pick tho. Another wr haa

I've been trying to make sure this isn't just homerism as a Jets fan but I honestly like Elijah Moore more than Toney.  And I absolutely love Moore at #34 vs. Toney at #20.  Felt like Toney was taken about 10 spots early and Moore taken about 5 spots later than he should have been.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

You really opened Pandora's box here.

Wilson has as many Red flags as any QB I have seen. One year wonder, played against sub par competition,  never faced a real pass rush and the one game he did, he lost. I could go on. As for Carolina,  did you really think they traded 3 picks for Darnold so they can use a high first round pick on a QB? The strange thing is they took a DB instead of an O player to support  Darnold. At least they got him help later in the draft.

As for Denver, Elway is one of the worst GM's in the league. I have no idea why he still has a job. Unless he has an ownership stake I'm not aware he should be shown the door. 

Fields is as sound a pick as any of the QB's selected. 

Most of those red flags totally apply to all the top QBs in this draft.

Fields, Lawrence and Jones kicked the sh*t our of lesser competition the vast majority of their games.  those teams flood the draft with drafted players every year.

Lance played in a lower league and his team has kicked the stuffing out of every one the last 5 years or so.  He also has a ridiculously low # of college passes.

 

If one wants to question a player re 'even competition; then Trevor Lawrence is your guy just as much as Wilson.

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

you do realize that wilson played 3 years.

in 2019 he beat both tennessee (19-29, 232 yards, 1 TD) and USC (20-33, 280 yards, 1 TD).  granted these aren't earth shattering numbers.  but he beat 2 teams with decidedly more talent

First, that changes nothing about what I wrote, secondly, the Vols suck. They are capable of losing to anyone. I don't  know  so much about USC but it looks like they had a bad game more than Wilson lighting them up as he did to everyone last season.

[More Cowbell]

6 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

elway is not the GM.  they hired george paton this year, a man who twice turned down requests by the jets to interview him for a GM opening

And Elway is his boss. He hired him. You don't  think he was in his ear about that pick?

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

We can just disagree on Fields and Wilson. Fields is a far riskier prospect. And the compeition argument is just lame and trite.

Lame and trite if you want to dismiss the fact that practically  everyone who defended against his passes are selling insurance 

[More Cowbell]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Most of those red flags totally apply to all the top QBs in this draft.

Fields, Lawrence and Jones kicked the sh*t our of lesser competition the vast majority of their games.  those teams flood the draft with drafted players every year.

Lance played in a lower league and his team has kicked the stuffing out of every one the last 5 years or so.  He also has a ridiculously low # of college passes.

 

If one wants to question a player re 'even competition; then Trevor Lawrence is your guy just as much as Wilson.

Yeah but Fields knocked the crap out Trevor and his team in a big game to move on to the championship and he did it with broken ribs. 

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Yeah but Fields knocked the crap out Trevor and his team in a big game to move on to the championship and he did it with broken ribs. 

And then Mac Jones destroyed ohio state.

[More Cowbell]

43 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And then Mac Jones destroyed ohio state.

Are you suggesting Jones is better than Fields? Seriously? 

[Jets Things]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Are you suggesting Jones is better than Fields? Seriously? 

We won't know anything until they step out onto the field. That goes for all of them. College is over. Relax. 

[Dunnie]

Are you suggesting Jones is better than Fields? Seriously? 

Ate you suggesting Fields is better that Lawrence?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[More Cowbell]

9 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Ate you suggesting Fields is better that Lawrence?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

There is a possibility  that Fields has a better pro career. I fully expect Jones to be this years Josh Rosen. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

There is a possibility  that Fields has a better pro career. I fully expect Jones to be this years Josh Rosen. 

Rosen was destined to suck if you watched him.  Jones is Matt hasselback.

[Raideraholic]

On 4/30/2021 at 7:35 AM, Irish Jet said:

Bears had by far the worst move. They’re done for a decade. Absolute debacle. 

The Raiders were a disaster too.

Best moves were either the Jets being aggressive to build the line or the Pats staying put and getting their guy. 

Let’s see Tom Cable who has been one of the best offense line coach in the league picks the guy he wants to be his starting Rt .( Alex Leatherwood fits his blocking scheme to a Tee) Who cares where draftniks had their offense tackles ranked. ( I’ll take best offense line coach  opinion over them every day) .

  The Raiders had one of the best starting offense lines last year despite their top five offense lineman playing in just five  snaps all year.    The Raiders offense line will still be one of the better offense lines in the league next season.  Just set the offense line up for the next decade.   Lt K Miller 25 lg R Incognito ( some point John Simpson-23 ) C Andre James (23) - Cable said he  reminds him of Max Unger rg Denzel Good ( for all purpose been a starter for the last two years) Rt Alex Leatherwood ( 22 years old)  

Jaryd Jones Smith (25) was never going to be starting Rt without taken a snap in a game.  The guy has one of the biggest wingspans in the league will be swing tackle. 25 Brandon Parker is a better Lt than Rt will make the team.
 

The Raiders offense was one of the best in all of football last season, and it got a lot better this year.   Lost N Agholor but got better with faster, better route runner, and better hands in John Brown.  Kenyan Drake  gives the Raiders one of the best Rb committee in the game.    Te Foster Moreau gets his snaps back from J Witten ( smart as he was recovering from AcL injury late in the year his rookie season) Gives Raider one of the best Te tandems.( D Waller).

 

[The Crusher]

Drafting Pitts. Tell me I’m wrong. 

[jetblue95]

12 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

And Elway is his boss. He hired him. You don't  think he was in his ear about that pick?

no, elway was "kicked" upstairs.  it was the owners way of not firing a legend.

paton is someone who turned down many, many opportunities to become a GM.  i find it hard to believe after being approached probably a dozen times, he finally decided to take a job being john elway's yes man.

here is elway on draft night:

https://www.nfl.com/news/john-elway-s-mile-high-torch-pass-inside-the-first-denver-broncos-draft-run-by-g

It was time to live in the here and now. There was a flurry of activity as the team's 10-minute window opened, with Fields still on the board and three teams phoning with trade-down offers. The situation called for a steady hand -- and the owner of the most righteous right arm in the Rocky Mountains reclined in his upper-row seat, flashing an unruffled grin and taking it all in.

This would not be John Elway's call to make, and the legendary quarterback and accomplished executive felt completely at peace with that unfamiliar state of affairs.

"I still got a little nervous in that room," Elway said late Thursday night, after the Broncos had stayed put, passed on Fields and selected former Alabama cornerback Patrick Surtain II. "But it was nice to be where I was, and it felt right. After 60 years, for the first time in my life, I was glad I wasn't the guy pulling the trigger."

{snip}

Last December, toward the end of a challenging and emotionally draining season, the 60-year-old Elway decided the time had come to step down and hand the keys to the franchise he loves to someone new. With CEO Joe Ellis' blessing, Elway kicked himself upstairs (his new title is president of football operations) and initiated a search for his successor.

 

 

 

[jetblue95]

12 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

First, that changes nothing about what I wrote, secondly, the Vols suck. They are capable of losing to anyone. I don't  know  so much about USC but it looks like they had a bad game more than Wilson lighting them up as he did to everyone last season.

 

you said he was a  1 year wonder.  not true.  he played 3 years.  he actually had more pass attempts (837) than any of the other 1st round QBs except for lawrence.  more than fields (618), more than jones (556), and certainly more than lance (318).

you also said he played no one.  not true.  yes, he had a soft schedule in 2020 due to covid recking their schedule.  but he had played against some power 5 schools and beat both USC and tennessee in 2019, both of which went 8-5 that year.

[#27TheDominator]

I could be wrong, but the Patriots getting Barmore in the 2nd worries me much more than Mac Jones in the first. 

[johnnysd]

13 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Lame and trite if you want to dismiss the fact that practically  everyone who defended against his passes are selling insurance 

It's not trite. The reality is that level of competition does not matter much and it definitely cuts both ways. Historically QBs from power conferences are no more likely to be successful than QBs from smaller schools. There are less elite QBs in small schools because of recruiting but the success/failure rate is the same basically.

All you can do is project how the skills and traits of a QB project to the NFL.

Wilson played lesser competition, but on the flip side Fields Lawrence and Jones were better than every other team they played, with much better weapons at WR and RB. Like first round talent better. Just as you want to dismiss Wilson for playing against "inferior" competition the other guys had exactly the same advantage just from a different standpoint.

As Simms says basically a throw is a throw. If a throw is into a tight window it is into a tight window. A better CB might force a tight window more often but regardless of who the CB is a throw is a throw. And Wilson is the best thrower in the draft.. 

Also, Wilson before the hand injury did very well against much tougher competition in USC and Tennessee 

But in the end, Wilson's incredible arm talent, awareness, anticipation, football IQ just project higher in the NFL than Fields. And you do not need to listen to me, NFL teams clearly demonstrated they thought the same team. If Chicago had not traded up Fields probably would have been there for WFT. He was just not well regarded by the NFL relative to Wilson and Lawrence.

And they could be wrong and Fields is a HOF'er. But Wilson is a much better QB propspect.

[section314]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I could be wrong, but the Patriots getting Barmore in the 2nd worries me much more than Mac Jones in the first. 

I think the only ones who should be worried about Mac Jones in the 1st are Pats fans.

[Morrissey]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I could be wrong, but the Patriots getting Barmore in the 2nd worries me much more than Mac Jones in the first. 

https://www.pewterreport.com/warren-sapp-alabama-christian-barmore-nfl-draft/

[Jetsfan80]

22 hours ago, Morrissey said:

Vikings. Trading down to 23, getting two additional 3rd rounders and arguably getting a better prospect than we did.

See, kids, this is an example of whining just for the sake of whining.

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, jetblue95 said:

 

you said he was a  1 year wonder.  not true.  he played 3 years.  he actually had more pass attempts (837) than any of the other 1st round QBs except for lawrence.  more than fields (618), more than jones (556), and certainly more than lance (318).

you also said he played no one.  not true.  yes, he had a soft schedule in 2020 due to covid recking their schedule.  but he had played against some power 5 schools and beat both USC and tennessee in 2019, both of which went 8-5 that year.

Apparently you don't  know what one year wonder means. 

If Wilson was not a one year wonder, nobody was. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Drafting Pitts. Tell me I’m wrong. 

Counter point:  Only moves made for QB's will be remembered, for better or worse.  If no QB's work out, then, and only then can the Pitts pick rise to the top.

And I love me some Pitts.  

[More Cowbell]

48 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

It's not trite. The reality is that level of competition does not matter much and it definitely cuts both ways. Historically QBs from power conferences are no more likely to be successful than QBs from smaller schools. There are less elite QBs in small schools because of recruiting but the success/failure rate is the same basically.

All you can do is project how the skills and traits of a QB project to the NFL.

Wilson played lesser competition, but on the flip side Fields Lawrence and Jones were better than every other team they played, with much better weapons at WR and RB. Like first round talent better. Just as you want to dismiss Wilson for playing against "inferior" competition the other guys had exactly the same advantage just from a different standpoint.

As Simms says basically a throw is a throw. If a throw is into a tight window it is into a tight window. A better CB might force a tight window more often but regardless of who the CB is a throw is a throw. And Wilson is the best thrower in the draft.. 

Also, Wilson before the hand injury did very well against much tougher competition in USC and Tennessee 

But in the end, Wilson's incredible arm talent, awareness, anticipation, football IQ just project higher in the NFL than Fields. And you do not need to listen to me, NFL teams clearly demonstrated they thought the same team. If Chicago had not traded up Fields probably would have been there for WFT. He was just not well regarded by the NFL relative to Wilson and Lawrence.

And they could be wrong and Fields is a HOF'er. But Wilson is a much better QB propspect.

Look, it's  definitely  a knock on the guy or Red Flag as being discussed. If you don't  want to consider it, that's  on you. This is not something other people haven't pointed out. BYU was the Clemsom or Bama of the WAC. 

 

[Morrissey]

33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

See, kids, this is an example of whining just for the sake of whining.

Who's whining? What part of the post isn't true? Vikings clearly made a great trade. To argue otherwise is laughable.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Morrissey said:

Who's whining? What part of the post isn't true? Vikings clearly made a great trade.

I think what the giants did was better, they got next year’s 1st and the bears could be bad this year.  Didn’t love picking toney at 20 though, they could have taken other guys, but the trade was great.

[jetblue95]

30 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Apparently you don't  know what one year wonder means. 

If Wilson was not a one year wonder, nobody was. 

 

yes, wilson had an extraordinary year his final season, showing great improvement over the prior 2 seasons.  that doesn't mean we just disregard what he did in the prior seasons.  one year wonder is a lazy term, primarily used by people pre-disposed to disliking wilson (or better said, those who wanted someone else).  he actually has more experience than fields, jones and lance, but apparently since those happened before 2020, they don't count for the one year wonder crew.

yes, he played a weak schedule in 2020.  and in 2019, he beat both USC and Tennessee.  do we just ignore these performances and only evaluate what he did during his "one year wonder year"?  i'd be willing to bet the jets (and other teams) looked at all his game film, not just 2020.