Which combo of players would you prefer with #4 and #10.

[JustInFudge]

Naturally as we get closer to draft day, I'm starting to waiver a little bit on my current stance of take Sauce at 4 and Johnson at 10.   While I love both players, I'm starting to wonder if that's the best possible picks to improve the Jets.  While yes, I do think you're getting the best player in the draft, Sauce and possibly the best edge in Johnson, I do wonder if it's the most optimal pairing and/or what happens if that scenario doesnt play out for the Jets?

Here are few combo's, I love that I think could drastically improve the Jets defense.  Sorry to those who wanted to see offense here.  I dont see the value, so I'm looking to improve a historically bad defense with the first 2 picks and looking at offense in rounds 2-5.

Option 1:  #4 Thibs and #10 J. Davis

The more and more I think about the presence of J. Davis on this Dline, the more and more I'm intrigued.  Think about what his presence does for Q. Will.  How many more 1 on 1 situation is he in?  Teams will have to double J. Davis.  He's unblockable. Think about what Vita Vea does for Tampa's defense and imagine possibly a more dominant presence, think about the trickle down effect this has on JFM, Lawson, Thibs and then more important, Mosley and Quincy are in attack mode vs. react mode, making more plays at or around the LOS vs. 5+ yards down field.  

Option 2: # 4 Walker and #10 J. Davis

Simple.  Same thought as above, just a different player at #4.

Option 3: # 4 Sauce and # 10 J. Davis

Say the draft falls; Hutch, Thibs, Walker - leaving the Jets with their favorite 3 edge rushers off the board.  Since I'm not taking a T at 4, this IMO, forces the Jets hand into taking Sauce, which is great.  Again, probably the best player in the draft.  However, this pushes up JJ because the top edge rushers are now limited.  So, again, I'm taking J. Davis here.

Option 4: #4 Sauce and # 10 Devin Lloyd

Top 3 edge off the board before 4.  J. Davis and JJ are off the board at 10.  The Jets are looking who in this scenario?  Hamilton? Stingley?  Ewww.  **** that.  Give me this years possible Micha Parson.  Lloyd was an absolute monster at Utah.  He could be a long term replacement for Mosley when he comes off the books.  In this scenario; maybe the Jets can find a penetrating DL player late ie; Wyatt, Carter, maybe even a player on Ojabo.

Option 5: #4 Sauce and # 10 Jermaine Johnson 

This is my current wish but I'm not 100% sure that the options above arent better fits for the Jets.  That said, I think is a very realistic scenario with how I anticipate the draft falling.  

[HighPitch]

not enough options

[derp]

Come on JiF. Saleh and Douglas talk about building up front all the time but that just means edge rushers, defensive tackles don’t count. It’s not like the Jets let a starting DT go they haven’t replaced, or the team Saleh came from drafted them in the first round almost annually. And if there’s one thing we know about Joe Douglas it’s that he’d have no interest in an unusually large human who moves like a much smaller human.

Seriously, probably scenario 3. Can’t make heads or tails of this edge class. I think Walker is going to be a stud but I also get metrics are concerning, and I think Thibodeaux’s off field concerns are overblown but will still be real for the Jets and his on field performance is slightly overrated. I think they can get a twitchy edge and a capable linebacker later. Though they could also take Travis Jones at the top of the second.

In a class that’s a mess up high Sauce is like a lifeboat at 4, only guy I’d be comfortable with even though I think the need is a little overrated. Just important to add a good player. Would like to see a move down the board somewhere.

Fun poll. You did a great job outlining stuff I think they definitely could do that doesn’t fit consensus - but I’m with you on the offensive guys in this class.

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, derp said:

Come on JiF. Saleh and Douglas talk about building up front all the time but that just means edge rushers, defensive tackles don’t count. It’s not like the Jets let a starting DT go they haven’t replaced, or the team Saleh came from drafted them in the first round almost annually. And if there’s one thing we know about Joe Douglas it’s that he’d have no interest in an unusually large human who moves like a much smaller human.

Seriously, probably scenario 3. Can’t make heads or tails of this edge class. I think Walker is going to be a stud but I also get metrics are concerning, and I think Thibodeaux’s off field concerns are overblown but will still be real for the Jets and his on field performance is slightly overrated. I think they can get a twitchy edge and a capable linebacker later. Though they could also take Travis Jones at the top of the second.

In a class that’s a mess up high Sauce is like a lifeboat at 4, only guy I’d be comfortable with even though I think the need is a little overrated. Just important to add a good player. Would like to see a move down the board somewhere.

Fun poll. You did a great job outlining stuff I think they definitely could do that doesn’t fit consensus - but I’m with you on the offensive guys in this class.

I'm with you on the edge guys.  I'm confused and really, I dont know who's going to hit at the next level, I just dont know if they can afford to pass on one at #4, although, Sauce would a be a great reason too but honestly, the more and more I look at this draft and think about the 1 player who could have damn near the biggest guaranteed impact, it's Jordan Davis.  Quite honestly, it's bizarre to me that he's not getting the "generational" label, that I loath to hear about any prospect but if you had to put that label on a player, hell, in the last 10 years, it's him!  Who else has come out that posses his level of freakishness of size and athleticism w/ stupid ridiculous stats to back it up?  The #'s you see about him on the field, vs. off is legit, insane.  It's almost make believe and I dont see why he wouldnt have the same impact in the NFL.  It's the whole Rex Ryan planetary theory w/ Ngata.  Then you look at the impact that Buckner had in Saleh's defense and it's almost like, how do you pass on him? 

Ngata went 12th, Vea went 12th, Buckner went 7th - 10 seems like the perfect spot for someone like J. Davis.

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

27 minutes ago, derp said:

Come on JiF. Saleh and Douglas talk about building up front all the time but that just means edge rushers, defensive tackles don’t count. It’s not like the Jets let a starting DT go they haven’t replaced, or the team Saleh came from drafted them in the first round almost annually. And if there’s one thing we know about Joe Douglas it’s that he’d have no interest in an unusually large human who moves like a much smaller human.

Seriously, probably scenario 3. Can’t make heads or tails of this edge class. I think Walker is going to be a stud but I also get metrics are concerning, and I think Thibodeaux’s off field concerns are overblown but will still be real for the Jets and his on field performance is slightly overrated. I think they can get a twitchy edge and a capable linebacker later. Though they could also take Travis Jones at the top of the second.

In a class that’s a mess up high Sauce is like a lifeboat at 4, only guy I’d be comfortable with even though I think the need is a little overrated. Just important to add a good player. Would like to see a move down the board somewhere.

Fun poll. You did a great job outlining stuff I think they definitely could do that doesn’t fit consensus - but I’m with you on the offensive guys in this class.

Sauce feels like a strong option as a "oops my preferred edge went before me at 4" going to take one of the best players in the draft at a premium position.

Feels like there is a real sweet spot for DTs in the 2nd that may leak a bit into the end of round 1 (Winfrey, Wyatt, Jones). I'm not positive Jordan Davis is exactly what we need, but I'm not going to be mad if we take a true freak athlete at a critical position. Our DL offseason plan has felt like depth signings (Shep, Thomas, Martin), more than acquiring starters, so I expect heavy investment early on days 1 and 2 on the D-line is pretty safe to say.

Again, I hope we trade down from 10 and are more in the ballpark of taking one of the linebackers, DT, and receivers at a draft position that better matches up with value.

Also, the more I think about it, it's just so tough to see us taking an OL in the top 10 and being able to address all the positions that are our biggest needs. (DT, edge, WR, linebacker for me at least).

 

[derp]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm with you on the edge guys.  I'm confused and really, I dont know who's going to hit at the next level, I just dont know if they can afford to pass on one at #4, although, Sauce would a be a great reason too but honestly, the more and more I look at this draft and think about the 1 player who could have damn near the biggest guaranteed impact, it's Jordan Davis.  Quite honestly, it's bizarre to me that he's not getting the "generational" label, that I loath to hear about any prospect but if you had to put that label on a player, hell, in the last 10 years, it's him!  Who else has come out that posses his level of freakishness of size and athleticism w/ stupid ridiculous stats to back it up?  The #'s you see about him on the field, vs. off is legit, insane.  It's almost make believe and I dont see why he wouldnt have the same impact in the NFL.  It's the whole Rex Ryan planetary theory w/ Ngata.  Then you look at the impact that Buckner had in Saleh's defense and it's almost like, how do you pass on him? 

Ngata went 12th, Vea went 12th, Buckner went 7th - 10 seems like the perfect spot for someone like J. Davis.

 

Ngata comes to mind and someone went to the way back machine and brought up John Henderson and Marcus Stroud who did their work in a 4-3. The snap %, conditioning, and pass rush are all questions I have but I can’t help but look at Fatukasi walking with no replacement and what the coach and GM value and wonder if they’re setting up for Davis. They rotate heavily anyway and I’m sure they’ll think they can teach pass rush, he’ll have to answer questions about conditioning and commitment.

It would be bold with Becton’s weight issues but I think it comes down to the person and that’s stuff they can answer but we can’t. And it’s not a direct solution of the issues fans want solved but teams often take the indirect approach - or what seems like the indirect approach but they’ve identified it as the direct issue.

Ten is the right area. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if they do it at 4, but 10 is definitely a better area.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I'm with you on the edge guys.  I'm confused and really, I dont know who's going to hit at the next level, I just dont know if they can afford to pass on one at #4, although, Sauce would a be a great reason too but honestly, the more and more I look at this draft and think about the 1 player who could have damn near the biggest guaranteed impact, it's Jordan Davis.  Quite honestly, it's bizarre to me that he's not getting the "generational" label, that I loath to hear about any prospect but if you had to put that label on a player, hell, in the last 10 years, it's him!  Who else has come out that posses his level of freakishness of size and athleticism w/ stupid ridiculous stats to back it up?  The #'s you see about him on the field, vs. off is legit, insane.  It's almost make believe and I dont see why he wouldnt have the same impact in the NFL.  It's the whole Rex Ryan planetary theory w/ Ngata.  Then you look at the impact that Buckner had in Saleh's defense and it's almost like, how do you pass on him? 

Ngata went 12th, Vea went 12th, Buckner went 7th - 10 seems like the perfect spot for someone like J. Davis.

 

The draft media sucks en masse, honestly. To prop up Kyle Hamilton and not talk up Davis who is actually the unicorn athlete is just strange. My only question on Davis is can he develop into a better pass rusher (probably) and is he capable of a high amount of reps (we rotate heavily anyways so probably as well).

Pass rusher is risky this draft. There's a lot of interesting athletes, but not a true dominant guy that checks off all the boxes. I think Walker (who I like) is propped up as that because he checks off the athletic boxes, just not the production one. If we somehow pass on edge round 1, I'm for Ebiketie or Mafe in the 2nd since both passed the athletic profile (agility-wise), but are both raw and aren't polished. I also like Sam Williams, but for me more as a late 2nd/early 3rd guy. And later in the draft, Bonitto, Paschal, Dominique Robinson, are potential guys as developmental picks.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

6 minutes ago, derp said:

Ngata comes to mind and someone went to the way back machine and brought up John Henderson and Marcus Stroud who did their work in a 4-3. The snap %, conditioning, and pass rush are all questions I have but I can’t help but look at Fatukasi walking with no replacement and what the coach and GM value and wonder if they’re setting up for Davis. They rotate heavily anyway and I’m sure they’ll think they can teach pass rush, he’ll have to answer questions about conditioning and commitment.

It would be bold with Becton’s weight issues but I think it comes down to the person and that’s stuff they can answer but we can’t. And it’s not a direct solution of the issues fans want solved but teams often take the indirect approach - or what seems like the indirect approach but they’ve identified it as the direct issue.

Ten is the right area. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if they do it at 4, but 10 is definitely a better area.

Wow, Ngata is pitch perfect comparison to me. Nice call. I was struggling to find a comp since well, there's not a whole lot of 350lb guys that are super athletic.

[derp]

12 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Wow, Ngata is pitch perfect comparison to me. Nice call. I was struggling to find a comp since well, there's not a whole lot of 350lb guys that are super athletic.

JiF mentioned it in the post I quoted, I had been thinking it before as well. Davis is taller and tested as a tick more athletic or better across the board. Ngata was freaky for his size, Davis is just a completely different level.

Kind of like Walker, it’s risky but it’s not. Floor is an elite run stuffer, ceiling with that kind of athleticism is a complete difference maker in all facets. If it was a safe bet he’d hit the ceiling he wouldn’t be there at ten, but NFL teams let those guys last till ten-ish all the time (Ngata, Watt, Donald).

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, derp said:

Ngata comes to mind and someone went to the way back machine and brought up John Henderson and Marcus Stroud who did their work in a 4-3. The snap %, conditioning, and pass rush are all questions I have but I can’t help but look at Fatukasi walking with no replacement and what the coach and GM value and wonder if they’re setting up for Davis. They rotate heavily anyway and I’m sure they’ll think they can teach pass rush, he’ll have to answer questions about conditioning and commitment.

It would be bold with Becton’s weight issues but I think it comes down to the person and that’s stuff they can answer but we can’t. And it’s not a direct solution of the issues fans want solved but teams often take the indirect approach - or what seems like the indirect approach but they’ve identified it as the direct issue.

Ten is the right area. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if they do it at 4, but 10 is definitely a better area.

Stroud/Henderson  - Q.Will/J.Davis - that's a solid comparison. 

I was originally worried about snap count when looking at taking him this high but I'm not so concerned anymore when I started to look into how Saleh used his DL in San Fran when he had; Bucker, Armstead and Bosa.  They all played roughly 75%, which I dont think you'd get from Davis, but maybe 65% which is fine, we're talking 4-5 snaps per game.  The other part that alleviated my concern is UGA's snap count.  Nobody in their front 7 played over 66% and that was Dean, the LB.  Walker played the most on the DL at 60%..  Wyatt only played 42% vs. Davis who played 38%, which is a shade under 3 snaps a game less than Wyatt, so completely insignificant.  However, his impact was ridiculous. 

	Davis On Field	Davis Off Field
Snaps	155	253
Yards/Play	2.7	4.1
Yards/Att	3.5	5.9
QB Contact Pct	40%	34%

 

Anywho, I just dont think it's as big of a concern because he will play much more in the NFL and I just think his presence would have the biggest impact of any 1 player in this draft, maybe even more so than Sauce.  Why the above was so significant to Georgia's dominance is nobody, outside of 1 game, could get above the chains.  They murdered teams on down and distance because nobody could move the ball with Jordan in the game.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The draft media sucks en masse, honestly. To prop up Kyle Hamilton and not talk up Davis who is actually the unicorn athlete is just strange. My only question on Davis is can he develop into a better pass rusher (probably) and is he capable of a high amount of reps (we rotate heavily anyways so probably as well).

Pass rusher is risky this draft. There's a lot of interesting athletes, but not a true dominant guy that checks off all the boxes. I think Walker (who I like) is propped up as that because he checks off the athletic boxes, just not the production one. If we somehow pass on edge round 1, I'm for Ebiketie or Mafe in the 2nd since both passed the athletic profile (agility-wise), but are both raw and aren't polished. I also like Sam Williams, but for me more as a late 2nd/early 3rd guy. And later in the draft, Bonitto, Paschal, Dominique Robinson, are potential guys as developmental picks.

I definitely think just from the sake of volume, Davis will be a better pass rusher in the pros but that's not what you're drafting him for, you know?  Like Ngata's best years was what, 6 sacks? Or the other comparison I make is Vea, who is 4.   Sure he had a high win rate and I'm sure had pressure but so will Davis, the dude is the true freak of the draft but again, it's more about his impact on the other dudes.  Is Q.Will a double digit sack guy w/ Davis in there?  How does he impact Lawson and JFM?  How many more plays does Mosley/Quincy make at the LOS because of him?  That's the stuff I'm thinking about.

[derp]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Stroud/Henderson  - Q.Will/J.Davis - that's a solid comparison. 

I was originally worried about snap count when looking at taking him this high but I'm not so concerned anymore when I started to look into how Saleh used his DL in San Fran when he had; Bucker, Armstead and Bosa.  They all played roughly 75%, which I dont think you'd get from Davis, but maybe 65% which is fine, we're talking 4-5 snaps per game.  The other part that alleviated my concern is UGA's snap count.  Nobody in their front 7 played over 66% and that was Dean, the LB.  Walker played the most on the DL at 60%..  Wyatt only played 42% vs. Davis who played 38%, which is a shade under 3 snaps a game less than Wyatt, so completely insignificant.  However, his impact was ridiculous. 

	Davis On Field	Davis Off Field
Snaps	155	253
Yards/Play	2.7	4.1
Yards/Att	3.5	5.9
QB Contact Pct	40%	34%

 

Anywho, I just dont think it's as big of a concern because he will play much more in the NFL and I just think his presence would have the biggest impact of any 1 player in this draft, maybe even more so than Sauce.  Why the above was so significant to Georgia's dominance is nobody, outside of 1 game, could get above the chains.  They murdered teams on down and distance because nobody could move the ball with Jordan in the game.

 

 

I know he struggled a little when Bama went hurry up, too. I said it in my other post, floor is elite run defender and ceiling is one of the best players in the league. That ten area is the spot the freaky guys who don’t fit in a box go, I’m absolutely okay rolling the dice there.

Kind of like we went back and forth on Jameson Williams, if you can find the guy who moved the needle on the elite team that’s the guy I want. And teams don’t necessarily separate that out well. I think back to that A&M group where Manziel and a couple tackles went high and it was Mike Evans who made that whole thing go.

I genuinely appreciate your perspective on this class because the groupthink gets old and it makes me feel less nuts.

[JustInFudge]

32 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The draft media sucks en masse, honestly. To prop up Kyle Hamilton and not talk up Davis who is actually the unicorn athlete is just strange. My only question on Davis is can he develop into a better pass rusher (probably) and is he capable of a high amount of reps (we rotate heavily anyways so probably as well).

Pass rusher is risky this draft. There's a lot of interesting athletes, but not a true dominant guy that checks off all the boxes. I think Walker (who I like) is propped up as that because he checks off the athletic boxes, just not the production one. If we somehow pass on edge round 1, I'm for Ebiketie or Mafe in the 2nd since both passed the athletic profile (agility-wise), but are both raw and aren't polished. I also like Sam Williams, but for me more as a late 2nd/early 3rd guy. And later in the draft, Bonitto, Paschal, Dominique Robinson, are potential guys as developmental picks.

Another point about passing rushing is check out the QB contact stat and how it helps to play out my point above.  What makes this one is kind of mind blowing to me is, their QB contact rate isnt "pressure" it's actual contact and it's 6% points higher on early downs vs. presumably 3rd and long situations because that also plays out based on the yards per play stat.  So, again, think about how that impacts; JFM, Lawson, Q. Will and if they took a pass rusher at #4 like my poll selections.  It is truly, a totally game changing presence. 

Additionally, this type of stuff adds significant concern to my already existing fears of Walker.  Dudes getting a ton of 3rd and long situations but cant get home.  I know the coaching staff likes pressures but come'on, you cant take a guy that early and he's getting 5 sacks a year but has a nice pressure rate. 

 

	Davis On Field	Davis Off Field
Snaps	155	253
Yards/Play	2.7	4.1
Yards/Att	3.5	5.9
QB Contact Pct	40%	34%

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, derp said:

I know he struggled a little when Bama went hurry up, too. I said it in my other post, floor is elite run defender and ceiling is one of the best players in the league. That ten area is the spot the freaky guys who don’t fit in a box go, I’m absolutely okay rolling the dice there.

Kind of like we went back and forth on Jameson Williams, if you can find the guy who moved the needle on the elite team that’s the guy I want. And teams don’t necessarily separate that out well. I think back to that A&M group where Manziel and a couple tackles went high and it was Mike Evans who made that whole thing go.

I genuinely appreciate your perspective on this class because the groupthink gets old and it makes me feel less nuts.

Sure but what big guy doesnt?  

The WR class is another that is a little confusing to me as well.  Similar to edge.  I like, dont love any of these guy.  Like I'm a coin toss on them all. Which sucks but I do like the 2-4 round prospects, at least, I like their value bretter.  But as you said and it's the point I made in one of the threads about taking Jameson - the only thing I can say about Jameson Williams is I really dont remember seeing a WR having that big of an impact on an offense like he did for Bama.  They were toast and Bryce Young looked like a shell of himself as soon as he went down.  Is that enough to determine he's the real deal at the next level without getting to see him and get your hands on him?  Idk.

[derp]

37 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Sure but what big guy doesnt?  

The WR class is another that is a little confusing to me as well.  Similar to edge.  I like, dont love any of these guy.  Like I'm a coin toss on them all. Which sucks but I do like the 2-4 round prospects, at least, I like their value bretter.  But as you said and it's the point I made in one of the threads about taking Jameson - the only thing I can say about Jameson Williams is I really dont remember seeing a WR having that big of an impact on an offense like he did for Bama.  They were toast and Bryce Young looked like a shell of himself as soon as he went down.  Is that enough to determine he's the real deal at the next level without getting to see him and get your hands on him?  Idk.

I ultimately think they pass on Williams. Believe Douglas philosophically is interested in taking WR's a little later and this class is good for that. I am convinced they want a field stretcher, I am also convinced they need a field stretcher, and I am also convinced that the field stretcher skill set isn't one you take early. Speed busts high in the draft all the time. But we'll see what they do.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I ultimately think they pass on Williams. Believe Douglas philosophically is interested in taking WR's a little later and this class is good for that. I am convinced they want a field stretcher, I am also convinced they need a field stretcher, and I am also convinced that the field stretcher skill set isn't one you take early. Speed busts high in the draft all the time. But we'll see what they do.

Not sure which WR they like the most, but the NFL has suddenly decided WRs are as valuable as EDGE and LTs.  Teams are breaking the bank for the top WRs and teams that don't want to resign their best guys are reaping very nice draft pick packages in return for them.  Right now, WR has leapfrogged CB in terms of being a 'premium' position.  For that reason alone, if the Jets don't trade for a WR1, I think they will be more inclined to try and draft one.  And I wouldn't put it past them to double dip again in round 2 for the right guy.  With Lawson and another Edge prospect, we have enough to go to battle with on defense.  I'd love to add Sauce, or Lloyd, but I think we need the WR as much or more and it would all come down to how they rate them comparatively. 

And before anyone goes there, we can't substitute our opinions on this for JDs.  Unless you've watched hundreds of hours of film and talked to the prospects and their coaches, you just don't know.

[derp]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Not sure which WR they like the most, but the NFL has suddenly decided WRs are as valuable as EDGE and LTs.  Teams are breaking the bank for the top WRs and teams that don't want to resign their best guys are reaping very nice draft pick packages in return for them.  Right now, WR has leapfrogged CB in terms of being a 'premium' position.  For that reason alone, if the Jets don't trade for a WR1, I think they will be more inclined to try and draft one.  And I wouldn't put it past them to double dip again in round 2 for the right guy.  With Lawson and another Edge prospect, we have enough to go to battle with on defense.  I'd love to add Sauce, or Lloyd, but I think we need the WR as much or more and it would all come down to how they rate them comparatively. 

And before anyone goes there, we can't substitute our opinions on this for JDs.  Unless you've watched hundreds of hours of film and talked to the prospects and their coaches, you just don't know.

Two thoughts.

One, there are teams trading receivers as opposed to paying them which means that - as in any market - not all teams value guys that highly and some are choosing to zig where others zag. This could continue or could correct. In my opinion it tends to be more prudent to go counter to the prevailing trend. Douglas also talked about this a little with signing tight ends. The Hill pursuit obviously showed an interest but he’s the most explosive guy in the NFL and they didn’t touch FA. I don’t think they’ll add for the sake of adding.

Two, it’s more prudent to have a drafted player. Kansas City is going that route and Dallas kind of is in a different order. Again, perhaps Douglas was being opportunistic with Hill, but he’s also punted needs to the draft if he knows he’ll take a guy. I don’t think we can equate wanting an elite veteran with just wanting a WR and drafting one high. It’s possible they will but I don’t think it’s a given. I think Douglas prefers day two volume for the position.

And I still think this class is pretty obviously mediocre which, were I GM, would make me not want to force a pick. Maybe Douglas disagrees, but if he agrees I don’t think he’ll force a pick. Which again, would explain the interest in a veteran.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, derp said:

Two thoughts.

One, there are teams trading receivers as opposed to paying them which means that - as in any market - not all teams value guys that highly and some are choosing to zig where others zag. This could continue or could correct. In my opinion it tends to be more prudent to go counter to the prevailing trend. Douglas also talked about this a little with signing tight ends. The Hill pursuit obviously showed an interest but he’s the most explosive guy in the NFL and they didn’t touch FA. I don’t think they’ll add for the sake of adding.

Two, it’s more prudent to have a drafted player. Kansas City is going that route and Dallas kind of is in a different order. Again, perhaps Douglas was being opportunistic with Hill, but he’s also punted needs to the draft if he knows he’ll take a guy. I don’t think we can equate wanting an elite veteran with just wanting a WR and drafting one high. It’s possible they will but I don’t think it’s a given. I think Douglas prefers day two volume for the position.

And I still think this class is pretty obviously mediocre which, were I GM, would make me not want to force a pick. Maybe Douglas disagrees, but if he agrees I don’t think he’ll force a pick. Which again, would explain the interest in a veteran.

Argument to be made that it's as simple as teams with market-corrected QB contracts can't afford to have a $30 mil receiver on top of it from a resource management perspective.

If we're looking for zoom zoom speed guys, Isaiah Weston late in the draft is interesting. 40 vert + 11'3" broad + 4.4 speed is electric. 

[derp]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Argument to be made that it's as simple as teams with market-corrected QB contracts can't afford to have a $30 mil receiver on top of it from a resource management perspective.

If we're looking for zoom zoom speed guys, Isaiah Weston late in the draft is interesting. 40 vert + 11'3" broad + 4.4 speed is electric. 

The interesting pivot from that argument is Dallas trading Cooper when they really didn't need to. It seems like Green Bay would have kept Adams as well, but KC chose to trade Hill. It's interesting. 

Flip side is from KC's perspective Kelce is a legitimate #1 target who costs half of what Hill got. In my opinion a legitimate #1 target who's a tight end is cap optimal. I'm sure they'll correct up but you can get comparable production to a possession WR plus blocking value for like 2/3 the price.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 minute ago, derp said:

The interesting pivot from that argument is Dallas trading Cooper when they really didn't need to. It seems like Green Bay would have kept Adams as well, but KC chose to trade Hill. It's interesting. 

Flip side is from KC's perspective Kelce is a legitimate #1 target who costs half of what Hill got. In my opinion a legitimate #1 target who's a tight end is cap optimal. I'm sure they'll correct up but you can get comparable production to a possession WR plus blocking value for like 2/3 the price.

I'd counter that argument about the Cowboys with Cooper probably wasn't worth $20 Mil and they had to pay Gallup and eventually Lamb being prioritized to get paid soon being prioritized. Although I acknowledge that the cowboys could've found a way to keep Cooper, I just think they are trying to avoid the massive problem that actually is the Ezekiel Elliot contract. Hence why they also let La'el Collins go and are trying to force Lawrence to restructure on top of trading Cooper.

[derp]

17 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I'd counter that argument about the Cowboys with Cooper probably wasn't worth $20 Mil and they had to pay Gallup and eventually Lamb being prioritized to get paid soon being prioritized. Although I acknowledge that the cowboys could've found a way to keep Cooper, I just think they are trying to avoid the massive problem that actually is the Ezekiel Elliot contract. Hence why they also let La'el Collins go and are trying to force Lawrence to restructure on top of trading Cooper.

I'd counter the counter by saying that maybe the Cowboys really misread where the market was going or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the mini off field headaches, but based on where the market went Cooper was probably worth $20M.

[Warfish]

No Offense, no vote.

Edge/DT, LB/DT, CB/DT, CB/LB, CB/Edge?

These are all unacceptable to me.  No offensive weapon in the first to support our single most important asset?  That's a huge failure IMO.

"Sorry to those who wanted to see offense here.  I don't see the value".

Then you're not only not looking IMO, you're seemingly more worried about winning at draft "value" than winning football games.

I respect your opinion, I just can't share it.  Maybe JD sees it your way too, who knows.   His history shows him as a "WR's are easy, I'll just find them later" kinda GM.  Gotta admit, draft day(s) will be crushing for me if this is the direction we go.  Same old same old Jets IMO.  Especially the DT options, lol.

 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

No Offense, no vote.

Edge/DT, LB/DT, CB/DT, CB/LB, CB/Edge?

These are all unacceptable to me.  No offensive weapon in the first to support our single most important asset?  That's a huge failure IMO.

"Sorry to those who wanted to see offense here.  I don't see the value".

Then you're not only not looking IMO, you're seemingly more worried about winning at draft "value" than winning football games.

I respect your opinion, I just can't share it.  Maybe JD sees it your way too, who knows.   His history shows him as a "WR's are easy, I'll just find them later" kinda GM.  Gotta admit, draft day(s) will be crushing for me if this is the direction we go.  Same old same old Jets IMO.  Especially the DT options, lol.

 

Really? This sh*t again? How many times do we have to have this conversation?  Yawn!  I'll pass.  Just go see the hundred other times I've pooped on this silly simple mind fan logic. 

 

[BurntDice]

I’ve pretty much fallen on 

Hutch/Wilson 

Sauce/JJ or Karlaftis 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Really? This sh*t again? How many times do we have to have this conversation?  Yawn!  I'll pass.  Just go see the hundred other times I've pooped on this silly simple mind fan logic. 

 

Link?

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Really? This sh*t again? How many times do we have to have this conversation?  Yawn!  I'll pass.  Just go see the hundred other times I've pooped on this silly simple mind fan logic. 

Sorry you feel that way. 

I hope you won't be too disappointed if JD goes a different direction.

o7

[RedBeardedSavage]

Option 1 all day. Bring me that super-unit D line, trade those 2 2's for a veteran receiver looking for that big contract... and replace Thibs with JJ II

 

[JustInFudge]

41 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Link?

 

[Jet_Engine1]

5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Really? This sh*t again? How many times do we have to have this conversation?  Yawn!  I'll pass.  Just go see the hundred other times I've pooped on this silly simple mind fan logic. 

 

Your right! Great idea! Another DT in the first round who tested great and is the "BEST PLAYER IN THE DRAFT!!"

 

I mean, it's worked out so well for the Jets the last 6 times in the past 20 years they've gone that route while completely ignoring Skill positions Players.. 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

6 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Really? This sh*t again? How many times do we have to have this conversation?  Yawn!  I'll pass.  Just go see the hundred other times I've pooped on this silly simple mind fan logic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bonus Round:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Your right! Great idea! Another DT in the first round who tested great and is the "BEST PLAYER IN THE DRAFT!!"

 

I mean, it's worked out so well for the Jets the last 6 times in the past 20 years they've gone that route while completely ignoring Skill positions Players.. 

 

Cool.  Well the fun things about this exercise, is there were 2 options you could have chose that didnt include Jordan Davis.  And nowhere in my post did I say he was the best player int he draft.  So instead of making a stupid post with a stupid point all with the effort to be a wise ass for no reason, just pick the option that doesnt include a DT.  

[JustInFudge]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bonus Round:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take your simple mind stupidity somewhere else.  There are 2 options that do not include DT.  If you like those, vote for them and share why.  What you're doing now is stupid, you're being an a$$hole and nobody in this forum wants these threads where we actually have real conversation dumb downed by ******* morons who pollute the main board with their bull sh*t.  GTFO.

[JustInFudge]

11 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Option 1 all day. Bring me that super-unit D line, trade those 2 2's for a veteran receiver looking for that big contract... and replace Thibs with JJ II

So JJ at 4 and Davis at 10.  I could dig it.  Especially if the draft falls Hutch, Thibs, Walker and they rather take the edge over the corner.

I'm all in on Jordan Davis, not only do I think he provides the biggest impact but now I want it to happen so that the "omg another DT" and the "omg they failed to support Wilson because I want someone who scores TD's" simple minded casual fan crowds cry on draft night.

What I like about your plan, is that if they do find a WR via trade, they're not praying that not only did they pick the right guy but that the right guy can also come in and hit the ground running as a rookie.  IMO, a proven veteran who knows what he's doing and knows where to be on every play and can help Zach immediately is a much better way to support Zach Wilson than forcing the issue early, for an unworthy talent and later regretting it and setting the franchise back because 1st round WR's bust at the 2nd highest rate than any other position.  This year I find that especially concerning because IMO there is no sure shot WR who fits that profile in this draft.  This is a crucial year for Zach, JD and Saleh.  If you take G.Wilson at #10 and G.Wilson doesnt pick up the playbook, doesnt adjust to NFL speed, isnt the same player in college and now it's almost as if the Jets did nothing to support Wilson.  And you can better your bottom dollar the narrative would swing that direction half way through the season if it played out that way.

 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I went with Thibs and Davis. I'm also incredibly intrigued my Davis. He just seems like a total monster. Would love to have him on the dline. I admit, I like flashy picks with first rounders like WR but hey, we have two now, so why not take a shot at this beast. 

If we're taking J. Davis though, I'd much rather go the route of pairing him with a pass rusher to take even more eyes away. You don't want to count on just Lawson being your most impactful outside rusher. If he fails, then we're back to guys like Huff and the scraps. 

If we took Davis, I swear Quinnen better have a good year and beating all his one on ones. 

 

[Guilhermezmc]

Sauce and JJ would make me very happy, theres big BUT tho. We'll have to trade for a WR, unless JD are expecting a guy like Traylon Burks to fall to the second round, wich I think he will.