Xcel2NuFX Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 This guy was virtually a nobody throughout his career in College. He played for Vanderbilt where he was involved in 1 pretty big win against Tennesse to close out the season. Everyone has heard about his great combine and Senior Bowl but what are the things people cite as his weaknesses? Mechanics will still get pretty dodgy at times...Footwork is very eratic...**Will take unnecessary risks and make some bad decisions**...His gunslinging mentality can morph into recklessness...Has too much confidence in his arm at times...**Struggles throwing the deep ball**...**Has not had a lot of success at the college level from a team perspective**...Body has taken a lot of punishment throughout his career. I will lay it down pretty thick here for anybody who doesn't realize this. JAY CUTLER IS NOT A SURE THING. You never heard about him before this offseason and who knows if you will ever hear about him again? Mario Williams or Ferguson are sure things. A great college QB regardless of what team they played for you would think could put up respectable numbers against anyone. Yet Cutler put together these numbers mid season facing LSU and Georgia. 26-60 for 287 yards with 1 TD and 3 INT's He ran the ball 21 times for -18 yards Maybe it's unfair to judge how he performed against 2 top 20 schools given his supporting cast but it's hard to overlook the fact that he didn't even have a good game against Middle Tennesse State. He closed out the season on a high note playing at a very high level but overall he led his team to a 5-6 record against a mediocre schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNorth09 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 This guy was virtually a nobody throughout his career in College. He played for Vanderbilt where he was involved in 1 pretty big win against Tennesse to close out the season. Everyone has heard about his great combine and Senior Bowl but what are the things people cite as his weaknesses? Mechanics will still get pretty dodgy at times...Footwork is very eratic...**Will take unnecessary risks and make some bad decisions**...His gunslinging mentality can morph into recklessness...Has too much confidence in his arm at times...**Struggles throwing the deep ball**...**Has not had a lot of success at the college level from a team perspective**...Body has taken a lot of punishment throughout his career. I will lay it down pretty thick here for anybody who doesn't realize this. JAY CUTLER IS NOT A SURE THING. You never heard about him before this offseason and who knows if you will ever hear about him again? Mario Williams or Ferguson are sure things. A great college QB regardless of what team they played for you would think could put up respectable numbers against anyone. Yet Cutler put together these numbers mid season facing LSU and Georgia. 26-60 for 287 yards with 1 TD and 3 INT's He ran the ball 21 times for -18 yards Maybe it's unfair to judge how he performed against 2 top 20 schools given his supporting cast but it's hard to overlook the fact that he didn't even have a good game against Middle Tennesse State. He closed out the season on a high note playing at a very high level but overall he led his team to a 5-6 record against a mediocre schedule. I like Cutler but you're right, he is not a sure thing. Still, at the very least he is good trade bait for the Vikings and Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Jay Cutler = Jeff George II. Same attitude, same excuses, same scouting report. Stay away from this bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I will stick to my guns..no qb at #4 and definitely DO NOT trade up to get one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 D'brick and Duke Davis= the closest to sure things in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinlawyer Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 This guy was virtually a nobody throughout his career in College. He played for Vanderbilt where he was involved in 1 pretty big win against Tennesse to close out the season. Everyone has heard about his great combine and Senior Bowl but what are the things people cite as his weaknesses? Mechanics will still get pretty dodgy at times...Footwork is very eratic...**Will take unnecessary risks and make some bad decisions**...His gunslinging mentality can morph into recklessness...Has too much confidence in his arm at times...**Struggles throwing the deep ball**...**Has not had a lot of success at the college level from a team perspective**...Body has taken a lot of punishment throughout his career. I will lay it down pretty thick here for anybody who doesn't realize this. JAY CUTLER IS NOT A SURE THING. You never heard about him before this offseason and who knows if you will ever hear about him again? Mario Williams or Ferguson are sure things. A great college QB regardless of what team they played for you would think could put up respectable numbers against anyone. Yet Cutler put together these numbers mid season facing LSU and Georgia. 26-60 for 287 yards with 1 TD and 3 INT's He ran the ball 21 times for -18 yards Maybe it's unfair to judge how he performed against 2 top 20 schools given his supporting cast but it's hard to overlook the fact that he didn't even have a good game against Middle Tennesse State. He closed out the season on a high note playing at a very high level but overall he led his team to a 5-6 record against a mediocre schedule. Hmm, Ok lets see... Have you checked Vanderbilt's football record the last 16 years? 1990 - 1win 10 losses 1991 - 5 wins 6 losses 1992 - 4 wins and 7 losses 1993 - 5 wins and 6 losses 1994 - 5 wins and 6 losses 1995 - 2 wins and 9 losses 1996 - 2 wins and 6 losses 1997 - 3 wins and 8 losses 1998 - 2 wins and 9 losses 1999 - 5 wins and 6 losses 2000 - 3 wins and 8 losses 2001 - 2 wins and 9 losses 2002 - 2 wins and 10 losses so on and so forth... SO you see 5 and 6 is a good season for the commodores. Plus, if you saw his game against Tennessee, the senior bowl workout, his combine work out...you saw his potential... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 This is NOT the sole reason I like Cutler for the Jets, I've been beating that horse for months, but this is just another plus on his side of the ledger By all accounts I have read, this week he wow'ed the scouts in attendence at his pro day ... throwing out doors in poor/windy conditions {THINK MEADOWLANDS} he was rocketing passes all over the yard, every pass you can throw, and making the conditions a complete non factor That is just one of the reasons I love Cutler for the Jets ... FOR THE JETS ... and I've been saying it for months, that he is better equipped for the meadowlands specifically and the northeast in general than even Matt Leinart who does not have nearly the same zip on his passes Yeah I know, here comes the inevitable "Browning Nagle had a Gun" retort, but Jay Cutler is a much better athlete and a much better QB in my view ... it's not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hmm, Ok lets see... Have you checked Vanderbilt's football record the last 16 years? 1990 - 1win 10 losses 1991 - 5 wins 6 losses 1992 - 4 wins and 7 losses 1993 - 5 wins and 6 losses 1994 - 5 wins and 6 losses 1995 - 2 wins and 9 losses 1996 - 2 wins and 6 losses 1997 - 3 wins and 8 losses 1998 - 2 wins and 9 losses 1999 - 5 wins and 6 losses 2000 - 3 wins and 8 losses 2001 - 2 wins and 9 losses 2002 - 2 wins and 10 losses so on and so forth... SO you see 5 and 6 is a good season for the commodores. Plus, if you saw his game against Tennessee, the senior bowl workout, his combine work out...you saw his potential... LL There are other QB's that have played for programs that stunk. The difference is they actually won games while they were there. And yes he had a good game against Tenn, and good senior bowl workout and good combine. But his stats were horrible in the senior bowl and bad all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Didn't Mr. Wonderlic wow them this week also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 One more thing, and you guys better reflect on this The SEC is overflowing with legit NFL Players ... that conference is a virtual NFL factory ... yet Jay Cutler was voted {by the coaches in the SEC, and by a landslide} the PLAYER OF THE YEAR in the SEC If you that doesn't at least give you a reason to pause and re-think your position on Cutler, than you really don't understand the magnitude of Cutler sweeping away that award in the SEC, and what type of player that suggests the coaches view Jay Cutler as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Didn't Mr. Wonderlic wow them this week also? No, he didn't ... there are mixed reviews on how Vince Young performed, some say he did very well and some say it was okay, but nearly all agree that unlike Cutler it was a far more controlled workout {by Jerry Rhome} and VY did not cut loose with every pass scouts wanted to see him throw Cutler placed no restictions on his workout ... NONE ... didn't have a Guardian angel like Rhome running the show, and just cut loose for the scouts in attendnce, everything they wanted to see Also, unlike Vince Young who chose to workout indoors {I believe?}, or outdoors in a perfect sunny climate {can't recall which?}, Jay Cutler chose to workout outdoors in awful conditions, throw every pass in the book, and pretty much left the scouts in awe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinlawyer Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 No, he didn't ... there are mixed reviews on how Vince Young performed, some say he did very well and some say it was okay, but nearly all agree that unlike Cutler it was a far more controlled workout {by Jerry Rhome} and VY did not cut loose with every pass scouts wanted to see him throw Cutler placed no restictions on his workout ... NONE ... didn't have a Guardian angel like Rhome running the show, and just cut loose for the scouts in attendnce, everything they wanted to see Also, unlike Vince Young who choose to workout indoors {I believe?}, or outdoors in a perfect sunny climate {can't recall which?}, Jay Cutler choose to workout outdoors in awful conditions, throw every pass in the book, and pretty much left the scouts in awe GJ&H You beat me to the punch...at the Combine Jay Cutler did everything, at his pro day Jay Cutler did everything. The guy is humble and he wowed them at his pro day. He comes to play and doesnt need a TUTOR to control his workouts. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 If Jay Cutler went to USC, Reggie Bush would not be the first player drafted. If Matt Lineart went to Vanderbilt, he'd either be a day two pick or a UDFA. Unlike Lineart and Young, Jay Cutler has had to carry an entire team on his back with his ARM. Vanderbilt, talentwise, is comparable to a Sun Belt school. Most of the major in-state recruits go to Knoxville and Vandy gets the scraps. To do what Jay Cutler did in one of the toughest conferences in college football says wonders about him. Sure, there are questions about his footwork. However, there are no questions about his arm, his toughness, or his ability to make a horrible team adequate. BTW, the best performance of Cutler's career was last year against Florida, not Tennessee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 If Jay Cutler went to USC, Reggie Bush would not be the first player drafted. If Matt Lineart went to Vanderbilt, he'd either be a day two pick or a UDFA. Pure speculation on your part. You ever wonder why Leinart was able to go to a school like USC, while Cutler ended up at Vandy? You say Vandy get's Tennessee's scraps, wouldn't Cutler be just that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 My mistake, apparently Jay Cutler is from Santa Claus, IN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CluJet Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Pure speculation on your part. You ever wonder why Leinart was able to go to a school like USC, while Cutler ended up at Vandy? You say Vandy get's Tennessee's scraps, wouldn't Cutler be just that? Cutler, like D'Brick, wasn't highly touted coming out of HS. Yet both players worked their way up in college, and now are looking at top 5/10 picks. I don't have a problem with that. Leinart has been a top recruit all his life, so that makes him more valuable than a guy like Cutler? I'm sorry, but I don't see how your point has any validity to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Cutler, like D'Brick, wasn't highly touted coming out of HS. Yet both players worked their way up in college, and now are looking at top 5/10 picks. I don't have a problem with that. Leinart has been a top recruit all his life, so that makes him more valuable than a guy like Cutler? I'm sorry, but I don't see how your point has any validity to it. I never said it made him more valuable. All I'm saying is that Leinart was recruited to go to play QB at USC for a reason and to say that he'd be an UFA somwhere else is kind of ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I dont hate Jay Cutler either, just the unneccesary Leinart hate is out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Pure speculation on your part. You ever wonder why Leinart was able to go to a school like USC, while Cutler ended up at Vandy? You say Vandy get's Tennessee's scraps, wouldn't Cutler be just that? Why did Ben Roethlisberger go to Miami of Ohio? Why did Steve McNair go to Alcorn State? Why did Jerry Rice go to Mississippi Valley State? Sometimes diamonds slip through the cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Why did Ben Roethlisberger go to Miami of Ohio? Why did Steve McNair go to Alcorn State? Why did Jerry Rice go to Mississippi Valley State? Sometimes diamonds slip through the cracks. I agree completely. Yet a scrub like Leinart gets to play QB at arguably the best college program in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I never said it made him more valuable. All I'm saying is that Leinart was recruited to go to play QB at USC for a reason and to say that he'd be an UFA somwhere else is kind of ridiculous. Lineart doesn't have the greatest NFL arm and his entire college career was spent surrounded by NFL talent. If he were at Vandy and won 10 games in 4 years, you really think there'd be all the hype there is surrounding his noodle arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Lineart doesn't have the greatest NFL arm and his entire college career was spent surrounded by NFL talent. If he were at Vandy and won 10 games in 4 years, you really think there'd be all the hype there is surrounding his noodle arm? Of course not. I just think Jets fans have been scarred for life regarding the whole arm strength issue thing, for good reason. People just see Leinart in completely different lights. You see Leinart as a guy with a below average arm who was lucky enough to be surronded by superstars. I see a guy with a good arm, incredible accuracy, great touch and a knack to win football games. He's one of the most NFL ready QB's to come out of the draft in a while. Like I said about a month ago, we'll have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Pure speculation on your part. You ever wonder why Leinart was able to go to a school like USC, while Cutler ended up at Vandy? You say Vandy get's Tennessee's scraps, wouldn't Cutler be just that? Matt, every year players from small schools and lesser D1A programs get drafted and go on to have great careers in the NFL All of these prospects were kids who fell through the cracks during the H.S. recruiting process, had poor grades in H.S. and had to go the Juco route, and/or were simply late bloomers ... if not most of them would have been playing for the Miami's and USC's of the world Anyhow, if you think the NFL draft is an inexact science, that is nothing compared to the H.S. recruiting process where there is far less film to study and countless thousands of recruits to choose from ... that's why there are always potential GREAT PLAYERS to be found at the small schools and lesser D1A programs, and there always will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Matt, every year players from small schools and lesser D1A programs get drafted and go on to have a great career in the NFL All of these prospects were kids who fell through the cracks during the H.S. recruiting process, had poor grades in H.S. and had to go the Juco route, and/or were simply late bloomers ... if not most of them would have been playing for the Miami's and USC's of the world Anyhow, if you think the NFL draft is an inexact science, that is nothing compared to the H.S. recruiting process where there is far less film to study and countless thousands of recruits to choose from ... that's why there are always potential GREAT PLAYERS to be found at the small schools and lesser D1A programs, and there always will be Hammer, great post. I agree 100% I was trying to stick up for Leinart, not so much discredit Cutler. I've learned more about Jay Cutler from you than anywhere else. You've done your homework. Just like a lot of you guys get nervous about Leinarts arm, I get nervous about a guy who's stock sky rockets after his final season in school. Anyway, GO LSU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Hammer, great post. I agree 100% I was trying to stick up for Leinart, not so much discredit Cutler. I've learned more about Jay Cutler from you than anywhere else. You've done your homework. Just like a lot of you guys get nervous about Leinarts arm, I get nervous about a guy who's stock sky rockets after his final season in school. Anyway, GO LSU! I hear you, Matt To use a boxing analogy, Leinart is like an Olympic Gold medalist, Sugar Ray Leonard if you will, while Cutler is like the kid from the streets who works his way through the ranks via the club fight circuit {Roberto Duran} but has possible Greatness in his future as well ... one is more well known before he ever turns pro, but one day he'll meet that kid from the streets in the pro ranks and find himself in the fight of his life Both could be Great, they Just took different paths to Get there, and they'll settle this argument in the pros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillerPaul Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I'm still on Vince Young's bandwagon. I've seen enough of his play in big games to be convinced he'll handle the NFL pressure just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 One thing to remember is that all left handers get a bad wrap for having weak arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcel2NuFX Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 GJ&H You beat me to the punch...at the Combine Jay Cutler did everything, at his pro day Jay Cutler did everything. The guy is humble and he wowed them at his pro day. He comes to play and doesnt need a TUTOR to control his workouts. LL Did any of you ever think the reason Cutler does EVERYTHING for the scouts is because he HAS TO!!!! Matt Leinart just has to show up on draft day and he is guarenteed to be a top 5 pick. Vince Young won the Rose Bowl single handedly and is an incredible talent. Cutler on the other hand has a lot to prove to everyone. For the past 4 years nobody has really heard of him so of course he has to make a name for himself now. I would agree being named the SEC offensive player of the year is an incredible accomplishment but not last year. There were really not too many others to compete with. DJ Shockley? Chris Leak? I mean point out who he beat out for this award if your going to say that this is such an accomplishment. The fact is there weren't that many offensive standout players in the SEC last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Did any of you ever think the reason Cutler does EVERYTHING for the scouts is because he HAS TO!!!! Matt Leinart just has to show up on draft day and he is guarenteed to be a top 5 pick. Vince Young won the Rose Bowl single handedly and is an incredible talent. Well if Vince Young is sitting on his lead someone should wake him up and tell him that lead appears to be gone ... by most accounts Jay Cutler has wizzed right by him ... so what's his excuse now? Now he's fighting for draft positioning every bit as much as Jay Cutler, and probably more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcel2NuFX Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 Why did Ben Roethlisberger go to Miami of Ohio? Why did Steve McNair go to Alcorn State? Why did Jerry Rice go to Mississippi Valley State? Sometimes diamonds slip through the cracks. Steve McNair took forever to develope into a solid NFL QB and has been mediocre more often than not. Rice was the greatest reciever to ever play the game. He got to where he was by working hard and it happens a lot more often that WR's develope later in their college careers and thats why you get guys like Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens that play for smaller schools and don't get drafted in the 1st round. Someone said before that Jay Cutler took a below average team and made them respectable. Well Leinart took a great team and made them Champions. What are we expecting of a QB? Are we looking for a guy that we know can make us respectable despite the lack of talent we currently have? or are we looking at a guy that we know if we build a team around him he can take them to the next level. I personally don't care that he had a few good games against Florida and Tennessee he played mediocre against weak schools like Middle Tennesse State. How does a team beat a top 20 team and also lose to a no-name school thats only other wins came against Troy, and FAU.... Doesn't add up does it? Well regardless I am not convinced of Cutler after he was talked up for the Senior Bowl and then didn't deliver. 6-19 passing with 1 TD and 1 INT that doesn't exactly scream #4 pick in the NFL draft to me. I would feel much more confident choosing a QB that could say he only lost 1 game in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Why did Ben Roethlisberger go to Miami of Ohio? Why did Steve McNair go to Alcorn State? Why did Jerry Rice go to Mississippi Valley State? Sometimes diamonds slip through the cracks. Roethlisberger and McNair actually won in college; Jerry Rice isn't a QB. That said, Cutler is unique, and I am duly impressed by the Pro-Day workout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Well if Vince Young is sitting on his lead someone should wake him up and tell him that lead appears to be gone ... by most accounts Jay Cutler has wizzed right by him ... so what's his excuse now? Now he's fighting for draft positioning every bit as much as Jay Cutler, and probably more definitely more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Someone said before that Jay Cutler took a below average team and made them respectable. Well Leinart took a great team and made them Champions. So did Chris Weinke, Matt Mauck, and Charlie Ward. Want to sign them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 One thing to remember is that all left handers get a bad wrap for having weak arms. another thng to remember is that this time last year Matt Leinart was having his shoulder operated on for tendonitis and other ailments. I just can't grasp why Jets fans love Matt Leinart when the guy has several surgeries under his belt already. Hello? Lefty Chad anyone? Jay Cutler took an absolute beating in the SEC and what did he do but put up 1 less rep bench press than A.J. Hawk. The guy is a total badass. Even if Leinart has an upside of say Payton Manning, what does Manning do every year but look amazing in the regular season and then someone like BELLY plays him in a snowstorm and shuts him down. Leinart could be great in a dome or warm weather place but in New York, in the Meadowlands, with the teams we face in the AFC East, it's not a fit. They need an underdog mentality like Cutler, not a front runner like Leinart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Doesn't add up does it? Well regardless I am not convinced of Cutler after he was talked up for the Senior Bowl and then didn't deliver. 6-19 passing with 1 TD and 1 INT that doesn't exactly scream #4 pick in the NFL draft to me. it's bad for the fans but the truth is that the Senior Bowl game is meaningless. The practices, with guys like Belly and Saban in the closed sessions, that's where the money is made. That's where first impressions are made. From monday to wednesday of Senior Bowl week Jay Cutler was the most impressive player in Mobile and it wasn't close. That's when this guy solidified his elite status. The game itself was meaningless. why you ask? besides the fact that everyone with any power left town several days prior, the offenses were running the same vanilla plays all week long, eventually the defenses picked them up... which led to Cedric Griffin's "great break" on the INT. Also he had like 5 wr/te drops in the game, that dude Hagan was supposed to be great, he couldn't catch a cold. Bottom line it doesn't matter as much as the practices. People used to say that and I would disagree with them, turns out I was dead wrong. What is more significant a wednesday practice session with 30 GMs in the audience or a saturday exhibition game with 0 Gm's in the audience? The former is higher pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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