Let’s talk about Zach Wilson

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

This is ridiculous.  He deserved to be benched, whether they won or lost.

He sucked.  He supposedly has "elite" arm strength while Jones has a "noodle arm". 

Jones went 23 of 27 for 286 (9.1 YPA) in the same winds.

If Wilson plays better than he did  -- 9/22 for 77 yards, 4 sacks -- and the offense scores more than 3 pts, the team wins.

In fact, all they had to do was pick up 1 first down on that final drive in order to avoid giving the ball back to NE.

Wilson couldn't do jack.

• 1st & 10 at NYJ 20

  (1:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson pass incomplete short right to E.Moore.

• 2nd & 10 at NYJ 20

  (1:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson pass incomplete short right to D.Mims (Jo.Jones).

• 3rd & 10 at NYJ 20

  (1:34 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson sacked at NYJ 15 for -5 yards (M.Wilson). PENALTY on NE-Jo.Jones, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at NYJ 20 - No Play.

• 1st & 10 at NYJ 25

  (1:25 - 4th) (Shotgun) Mi.Carter up the middle to NYJ 33 for 8 yards (J.Bentley).

• 2nd & 2 at NYJ 33

  (0:57 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) Mi.Carter left tackle to NYJ 34 for 1 yard (A.Phillips, K.Dugger).
• (0:32 - 4th) Timeout #2 by NYJ at 00:32.

• 3rd & 1 at NYJ 34

  (0:26 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson pass short right to Mi.Carter to NYJ 32 for -2 yards (K.Dugger).
• (0:26 - 4th) Timeout #2 by NE at 00:26.

• 4th & 3 at NYJ 32

  (0:05 - 4th) Marcus Jones 84 Yd Punt Return N.Folk extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Cardona, Holder-M.Palardy.

Reminds me of tee ball when we blamed whoever made the last out for losing the game  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

 

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

 

Yeah, you two who are still trying to find the just right mustache and fake laugh to seem interesting, still haven't had sex with another person in the room yet are cracking on Zack? LOL. For all Zach's faults? These two clowns need to go get their shoe shine box. 

[The Crusher]

20 minutes ago, jgb said:

Reminds me of tee ball when we blamed whoever made the last out for losing the game  

Lame, should just blame the fat kid like they did when I was a robust lad. 

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yeah, you two who are still trying to find the just right mustache and fake laugh to seem interesting, still haven't had sex with another person in the room yet are cracking on Zack? LOL. For all Zach's faults? These two clowns need to go get their shoe shine box. 

Can’t tell which one is Zach 

[The Crusher]

22 minutes ago, jgb said:

Can’t tell which one is Zach 

My guess is the one with the 7 digits in his bank account, brand new Beamer and all his Mom's friends along with some insta gram model nudies he took himself on his phone. The other two guys have gift cards from families, bus tokens and pictures of 7 different princess lea's they took at comicon on their phone. Pretty discernable difference counselor. 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My guess is the one with the 7 digits in his bank account, brand new Beamer and all his Mom's friends along with some insta gram model nudies he took himself on his phone. The other two guys have gift cards from families, bus tokens and pictures of 7 different princess lea's they took at comicon on their phone. Pretty discernable difference counselor. 

Couldn’t separate them from a police lineup though

[The Crusher]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Couldn’t separate them from a police lineup though

Not without my glasses. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Gotta say my impression after one episode of Hard Knocks is that Wilson is getting far more effective coaching from Hackett and Rodgers than he ever did in his previous 2 seasons. There is a certain calm wisdom, effectiveness and levity that people with a ton of experience exude that our HC's BFF's little brother and his QB coaches did not have.  I think MiLF could ID the many things Zach was doing poorly but was simply unable to "coach" him through it. I've heard Mark Schlereth talk about the types of coaches that can tell you what you are doing wrong but do little to nothing to help you fix it. I do think that this is what happened to Wilson over the past 2 years. In short, we put a kid QB in over his head with an OC who was in over his head.

I know many love to pile on Wilson and conclude that his story has been written, but I don't see it that way. He just turned 24 and has 2 seasons of meaningful experience --- It is meaningful because you learn far more from failure than you do from success. He now has experienced people who are helping him learn the physical and mental part of the game in a meaningful way - by showing him, explaining the "why" behind it, and doing it without dire urgency and with levity. If Wilson is going to succeed, the Jets have finally given him the tools to do so. 

I still have high hopes for the young man after Rogers rides off into the sunset, which I believe is most likely a minority opinion, but I've never minded coming to my own conclusions even if they don't follow the crowd's.

PS. I think Hackett failed as a HC in Denver because he is too nice to be a HC. I totally get why Rogers and other players like him. He is a good dude and well suited to be an OC.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, JohnnyLV said:

If we don't give up the punt return and win, Zach is not benched for the next game.  And that game was against the worst pass defense in the NFL. Jones stats looked better but he was just as ineffective that day. Benching Zach and the subsequent weeks just destroyed any confidence he had at all.

New England destroyed us in TOP and field position.  They missed two mid range fg and went for it on 4th and 3 in FG range and didn't make it.  Our D was playing on our side of the field most of the game.  The Pats special teams sucked just like ours.  Their O going against a much better D, moved the ball  into Jets territory, set up FG's, dominated field position and TOP.  

I'm not going to defend Saleh's handling of Zach.  It was incredibly bad as was the team turning on him.  On the flip side of that is Zach has control of Zach.   Instead of manning up and showing some mental toughness and leadership rolled up in the fetal position.  

NFL QB's don't have their confidence destroyed by outside noise.  If they do they aren't made of the right stuff. 

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

This is ridiculous.  He deserved to be benched, whether they won or lost.

He sucked.  He supposedly has "elite" arm strength while Jones has a "noodle arm". 

Jones went 23 of 27 for 286 (9.1 YPA) in the same winds.

If Wilson plays better than he did  -- 9/22 for 77 yards (3.5 YPA), 4 sacks -- and the offense scores more than 3 pts, the team wins.

Wilson couldn't do jack on the final drive.  They punted the ball away.  Rest is history.

• 1st & 10 at NYJ 20

  (1:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson pass incomplete short right to E.Moore.

• 2nd & 10 at NYJ 20

  (1:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson pass incomplete short right to D.Mims (Jo.Jones).

• 3rd & 10 at NYJ 20

  (1:34 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson sacked at NYJ 15 for -5 yards (M.Wilson). PENALTY on NE-Jo.Jones, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at NYJ 20 - No Play.

• 1st & 10 at NYJ 25

  (1:25 - 4th) (Shotgun) Mi.Carter up the middle to NYJ 33 for 8 yards (J.Bentley).

• 2nd & 2 at NYJ 33

  (0:57 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) Mi.Carter left tackle to NYJ 34 for 1 yard (A.Phillips, K.Dugger).
• (0:32 - 4th) Timeout #2 by NYJ at 00:32.

• 3rd & 1 at NYJ 34

  (0:26 - 4th) (Shotgun) Z.Wilson pass short right to Mi.Carter to NYJ 32 for -2 yards (K.Dugger).
• (0:26 - 4th) Timeout #2 by NE at 00:26.

• 4th & 3 at NYJ 32

  (0:05 - 4th) Marcus Jones 84 Yd Punt Return N.Folk extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Cardona, Holder-M.Palardy.

Some of these insane homers love Zach lot more more than jets 🙈. Even Flacco easily could have beaten the pats with what the D did to pats both games. They should have benched him first half of first pats game. Would have had handful of wins, easily make the playoffs. If Mike white didn’t get hurt. You would think now management would learn from their mistakes and trade for a OL now to patch up this line. Because season is over if he gets hurt.. 

[jgb]

54 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Some of these insane homers love Zach lot more more than jets 🙈. Even Flacco easily could have beaten the pats with what the D did to pats both games. They should have benched him first half of first pats game. Would have had handful of wins, easily make the playoffs. If Mike white didn’t get hurt. You would think now management would learn from their mistakes and trade for a OL now to patch up this line. Because season is over if he gets hurt.. 

When the Jets win -- "Zach won the game!"

When the Jets lose -- "It's a team game, you can't put it all on Zach!"

By their logic, every starter on the worst team in the league must be the worst at his position since they lost the most games while every starter on the Chiefs must be the best at his position since they won a SB.

[Jetsplayer21]

33 minutes ago, jgb said:

When the Jets win -- "Zach won the game!"

When the Jets lose -- "It's a team game, you can't put it all on Zach!"

By their logic, every starter on the worst team in the league must be the worst at his position since they lost the most games while every starter on the Chiefs must be the best at his position since they won a SB.

Those type of People have no logic, just fan boy delusions. We made it to AFC championship back to back with mark Fing sanchez lol. Sadly zach makes him look like Tom Brady 🙈

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Those type of People have no logic, just fan boy delusions. We made it to AFC championship back to back with mark Fing sanchez lol. Sadly zach makes him look like Tom Brady 🙈

Sanchez > Geno > Darnold > Zach

What abomination will the Jets draft after Rodgers retires?

[Hal]

Just now, jgb said:

Sanchez > Geno > Darnold > Zach

What abomination will the Jets draft after Rodgers retires?

It’s all bad luck and drafting.   So sad.  

[Dunnie]

Zach is rising ... Climb on board the love Plane brothers.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsplayer21]

18 minutes ago, jgb said:

Sanchez > Geno > Darnold > Zach

What abomination will the Jets draft after Rodgers retires?

Think they should stop drafting qbs in first round lol. Draft OLine. Build around it

[Dunnie]

Think they should stop drafting qbs in first round lol. Draft OLine. Build around it

This is the way .. give Zach a wall he is a different QB .. pretty much like any QB to play ..if the team doesn't fix the tackle position before Sep we could be looking at 9 win season.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[jgb]

47 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

This is the way .. give Zach a wall he is a different QB .. pretty much like any QB to play ..if the team doesn't fix the tackle position before Sep we could be looking at 9 win season.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Any QB would benefit from an improved supporting cast but no line on Earth is transforming the worst QB in the NFL over the last two seasons into a franchise guy. Remember: Zach had the slowest snap-to-throw time in the NFL last year. Or do we want to blame the weaponz for not getting open or LeFleur for not scheming them open and again go down the road of Darnold excuse-making that “everyone else in the building sucks and is holding back one guy?”

Of course, there are dozens of examples of Zach either not recognizing or just flat missing wide open guys. He just doesn’t have a feel for the game. But sure if he had an OL that could prevent all pressure for 7 seconds every play, he would probably hit 60% completion percentage.

[Dunnie]

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Dunnie

[Dunnie]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Any QB would benefit from an improved supporting cast. No line on Earth is transforming the worst QB in the NFL over the last two seasons into a franchise guy.

It is a good thing He, ARod and Hackett have decided to complete this task themselves then

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Dunnie

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

It is a good thing He, ARod and Hackett have decided to complete this task themselves then

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I don’t understand what you’re saying here. 

[Dunnie]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don’t understand what you’re saying here. 

I'm saying those guys are putting the work in to see if this impossible transformation of Zach to FQB can become a reality.

 

As a response to your comment about no OLine would be able to transform Zach's play ... An opinion I emphatically  disagree with.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Dunnie

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

This is the way .. give Zach a wall he is a different QB .. pretty much like any QB to play ..if the team doesn't fix the tackle position before Sep we could be looking at 9 win season.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Well can’t blame his historically bad qb play on the Oline. It was pretty bad last yr after injuries. But Mike White looked a lot better then Zach with same OL. Granted it got him killed in buf, but he stood in there and took the hits. Something Zach isn’t comfortable at all doing. He runs backwards 10 yards at any sign of trouble. White had a BIG down field completion as he got wrecked. Rodgers had a few to last yr. This is something that really cannot be taught.

I don’t know how you teach a qb to grow a pair, and be tougher. But I think that is why he does so well in practice, and then plays absolutely horrible in real games. Maybe he should ditch the Barbie blondes and date some MMA girls who can toughen him up some ha.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I'm saying those guys are putting the work in to see if this impossible transformation of Zach to FQB can become a reality.

Good. We paid for him and no one else is going to trade for his contract. What choice do we have?

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

 

As a response to your comment about no OLine would be able to transform Zach's play ... An opinion I emphatically  disagree with.

Your opinion isn’t backed up by any actual examples, but you’re free to believe what you wish.

[Joe W. Namath]

We are on the cusp of our best season in over a decade and 2 of the top 3 threads on this board are bash zach wilson threads.

The disease is alive and well.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are on the cusp of our best season in over a decade and 2 of the top 3 threads on this board are bash zach wilson threads.

The disease is alive and well.

We are on the cusp of our best season in over a decade and you’re exerting all your energy scolding fellow Jets fans.

[The Crusher]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

Sanchez > Geno > Darnold > Zach

What abomination will the Jets draft after Rodgers retires?

 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are on the cusp of our best season in over a decade and 2 of the top 3 threads on this board are bash zach wilson threads.

The disease is alive and well.

Are we? 

[Barry McCockinner]

12 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Well can’t blame his historically bad qb play on the Oline. It was pretty bad last yr after injuries. But Mike White looked a lot better then Zach with same OL. Granted it got him killed in buf, but he stood in there and took the hits. Something Zach isn’t comfortable at all doing. He runs backwards 10 yards at any sign of trouble. White had a BIG down field completion as he got wrecked. Rodgers had a few to last yr. This is something that really cannot be taught.

I don’t know how you teach a qb to grow a pair, and be tougher. But I think that is why he does so well in practice, and then plays absolutely horrible in real games. Maybe he should ditch the Barbie blondes and date some MMA girls who can toughen him up some ha.

I disagree that the o-line got MW killed last year. It was a well timed delayed 6 man blitz where the 6th guy was keying on the C vacating to double someone else. That was on MW to see it and get rid of the ball faster - his blockers were already occupied.

[More Cowbell]

19 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Gotta say my impression after one episode of Hard Knocks is that Wilson is getting far more effective coaching from Hackett and Rodgers than he ever did in his previous 2 seasons. There is a certain calm wisdom, effectiveness and levity that people with a ton of experience exude that our HC's BFF's little brother and his QB coaches did not have.  I think MiLF could ID the many things Zach was doing poorly but was simply unable to "coach" him through it. I've heard Mark Schlereth talk about the types of coaches that can tell you what you are doing wrong but do little to nothing to help you fix it. I do think that this is what happened to Wilson over the past 2 years. In short, we put a kid QB in over his head with an OC who was in over his head.

I know many love to pile on Wilson and conclude that his story has been written, but I don't see it that way. He just turned 24 and has 2 seasons of meaningful experience --- It is meaningful because you learn far more from failure than you do from success. He now has experienced people who are helping him learn the physical and mental part of the game in a meaningful way - by showing him, explaining the "why" behind it, and doing it without dire urgency and with levity. If Wilson is going to succeed, the Jets have finally given him the tools to do so. 

I still have high hopes for the young man after Rogers rides off into the sunset, which I believe is most likely a minority opinion, but I've never minded coming to my own conclusions even if they don't follow the crowd's.

PS. I think Hackett failed as a HC in Denver because he is too nice to be a HC. I totally get why Rogers and other players like him. He is a good dude and well suited to be an OC.

Look, I get the we want Zach to succeed crowd is going to prop him up now because there has been signs of progress. Did we all forget his rookie preseason? We were all foaming at the mouth at how good Zach looked and how much better he looked than Sunshine. Zach even was telling the media that he wants to be put in more uncomfortable situations after his second preseason game. How did that translate to the regular season? Did he not finish in the bottom of every measurable QB stat? So here we are in preseason again and Zach looks good so let's  all cream at the thought he is making progress. Now I am not saying this time is not different than his first two seasons, it is enormously  different but not because he is learning from AR or Hack. There is zero pressure on Zach. He knows he is not going to start probably  the entire year. The Jets could go 0-8 to start the season and short of an AR injury, he will remain on the bench. There is no urgency for him to get it right for game 1. The learning process has now slowed down to Zachs pace and he is now working on just his mechanics instead of trying to work on them as well as learning everything else a starting QB has to know. This is probably what needed to happen from day one but what this says is we drafted a project with the second overall pick. It also looks likes the 9ers did the same thing with the 3rd so at least we are in good company. 

[Joe W. Namath]

55 minutes ago, jgb said:

We are on the cusp of our best season in over a decade and you’re exerting all your energy scolding fellow Jets fans.

I am the CDC for this forum.  Its a tough gig but someone has to do it.

[More Cowbell]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I am the CDC for this forum.  Its a tough gig but someone has to do it.

CDC = Can't Deal with Criticism? 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I am the CDC for this forum.  Its a tough gig but someone has to do it.

Then you should know that serious illness such as 60 years of QB-suckitis requires lengthy recovery 

[Hal]

Checking in to remind everyone…

 

1st ballot HoF FQB.