I'm Still Not Sold On Zach Wilson

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No, I don’t, i don’t like the idea that smash odds = 0 odds. 
And have said it, you’re just not listening 

 

I haven’t seen anyone say it’s 0, at least not the regulars you choose to engage with.

[PFSIKH]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Yikes!!! Stop it, your scaring me!!

Bill can will this team to 6-7 wins and miss out on Caleb and Drake Maye.

 

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You have lots of posts where I indicate the odds are he will become a FQB, where the odds aren’t against him?

Nope.  Which is why I didn't say that.

What I said was:

Although I think one can imply your view form the fact you have hundreds of posts denouncing the JGB/Jets80/Warfish "probabilities/stat analysis"-based doubters viewpoint, and not a single post (far as I can find or recall) denouncing anyone who takes the positive view and says Zach will (not may, will) still be a good/great QB in the league.

So while you may never have "said he will develop", your post history sure shows a clear and unquestionable alignment with the "he will still develop" side of the discussion.

What I said, and what you think I said, not the same thing.

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 And for some unknown reason I need to act like those of you who feel the need to denounce with anyone who takes a positive view, who says Zach will be a great QB

Nope.  Didn't say that either.

You can make inferences on a persons viewpoint, based on what they say, and they don't say, without them necessarily being directly explicit.  The  preponderance of the evidence, in the form of posts made (and not made) on a topic, and the slant of those posts, can tell the tale just fine.

For example, on the topic of say, welfare.....if I make 100's of posts disagreeing with Pro-welfare posters, and no posts disagreeing with Anti-Welfare posters, it can be inferred that I myself am Anti-Welfare.

The same can be said for any of us, really, this is basic stuff.

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, jgb said:

I haven’t seen anyone say it’s 0, at least not the regulars you choose to engage with.

Seriously?  Start with Warfish

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Seriously?  Start with Warfish

He just explained like ten times with a glacier’s patience that he doesn’t think it is a 0% chance.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

He just explained like ten times with a glacier’s patience that he doesn’t think it is a 0% chance.

I don't think it's a 0% chance.

I don't think I'm qualified as a statistician to put any number on the question tbqh.  

The furthest I tend to go is saying it's quite unlikely, or if you prefer, "more likely than not to not become a good/great/franchise QB", which at most implies a >50% chance only.  As noted, I cannot cite (nor seemingly can anyone else) a QB who was as unproductive (ranked in 30's in most major metrics) his first two seasons as a full-time starter, who turned it around and become a franchise, great or even very good QB for the team that drafted him.  I'm certainly open to examples, should they exist.

I 100% agree that "anything is possible", i.e. the Jet Nut Theorem of Football. 

Possible does not mean likely.  It is unlikely Zach Wilson becomes a franchise QB, it is more unlikely that if he does, it would be playing for us.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't think it's a 0% chance.

I don't think I'm qualified as a statistician to put any number on the question tbqh.  

The furthest I tend to go is saying it's quite unlikely, or if you prefer, "more likely than not to not become a good/great/franchise QB", which at most implies a >50% chance only.  As noted, I cannot cite (nor seemingly can anyone else) a QB who was as unproductive (ranked in 30's in most major metrics) his first two seasons as a full-time starter, who turned it around and become a franchise, great or even very good QB for the team that drafted him.  I'm certainly open to examples, should they exist.

I 100% agree that "anything is possible", i.e. the Jet Nut Theorem of Football. 

Possible does not mean likely.  It is unlikely Zach Wilson becomes a franchise QB, it is more unlikely that if he does, it would be playing for us.

Disgusting hater 

[Xtina]

I don’t anyone has even tried selling him 

[Rich Thornburgh]

14 hours ago, Warfish said:

I don't think it's a 0% chance.

I don't think I'm qualified as a statistician to put any number on the question tbqh.  

The furthest I tend to go is saying it's quite unlikely, or if you prefer, "more likely than not to not become a good/great/franchise QB", which at most implies a >50% chance only.  As noted, I cannot cite (nor seemingly can anyone else) a QB who was as unproductive (ranked in 30's in most major metrics) his first two seasons as a full-time starter, who turned it around and become a franchise, great or even very good QB for the team that drafted him.  I'm certainly open to examples, should they exist.

I 100% agree that "anything is possible", i.e. the Jet Nut Theorem of Football. 

Possible does not mean likely.  It is unlikely Zach Wilson becomes a franchise QB, it is more unlikely that if he does, it would be playing for us.

Zach Wilson is not a nfl quarterback.  He showed nothing 0.0 this preseason they are still hiding him on these playcalls he will get eaten alive again when he sees regular season action again this year

[Dunnie]

26 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Zach Wilson is not a nfl quarterback.  He showed nothing 0.0 this preseason they are still hiding him on these playcalls he will get eaten alive again when he sees regular season action again this year

Zach Wilson will lead this franchise into the future my fine feathered friend.... Oh and thanks for taking up my time with this inspiring new thought that has yet to be expressed in the forum in any other thread. ... Yaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. 

And yes this post was not a serious point of view .. it was merely to balance against the unrelenting and Jurassic mountain of sh*t that is getting spewed for no apparent reason regarding Zach.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Dunnie

[Rich Thornburgh]

12 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Zach Wilson will lead this franchise into the future my fine feathered friend.... Oh and thanks for taking up my time with this inspiring new thought that has yet to be expressed in the forum in any other thread. ... Yaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. 

And yes this post was not a serious point of view .. it was merely to balance against the unrelenting and Jurassic mountain of sh*t that is getting spewed for no apparent reason regarding Zach.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Don’t worry you and the rest of the Chris Simms fanboys will get your shot again with Zach this upcoming regular season.  

[Flashlite80]

I thought Zach looked pretty good against the Giants.  There was a touchdown EJ, he missed by a mile but the rest looked good.  He completed 2/3 of his passes and had two drops, including Hardman's drop of a nice 30+ yard pass.

He still has work to do, but he is lite years ahead of the "Out of Control" mess we saw last year.

Zach deserved criticism for his lousy play but the offensive line play last year was nothing short of disgraceful.  They never saw a stunt they could pick up and never gave 4 seconds protection on third and long.  Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, would have looked good behind the line that nearly killed Mike White, despite his quick release.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

it was merely to balance against the unrelenting and Jurassic mountain of sh*t that is getting spewed for no apparent reason regarding Zach.

Sucking horribly and requiring the team to fork over premium draft capital and $75M on a 39 year old replacement while still on the hook for Zach ain’t “no apparent reason.”

[Dunnie]

24 minutes ago, jgb said:

Sucking horribly and requiring the team to fork over premium draft capital and $75M on a 39 year old replacement while still on the hook for Zach ain’t “no apparent reason.”

Yeah ... Your right .. I forgot that Zach selected himself in the second overall spot ... thanks for the reminder. 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Yeah ... Your right .. I forgot that Zach selected himself in the second overall spot ... thanks for the reminder. 

How quickly you abandoned “there’s no reason to pile onto Zach!”

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

22 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

Bill can will this team to 6-7 wins and miss out on Caleb and Drake Maye.

LOL

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Yeah ... Your right .. I forgot that Zach selected himself in the second overall spot ... thanks for the reminder. 

So we're not allowed to criticize his sh*t play because of his draft position?

Trust me, we've ripped on JD plenty for that pick.  Hell, @kevinc855 heckled him in person!

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Flashlite80 said:

I thought Zach looked pretty good against the Giants.  There was a touchdown EJ, he missed by a mile but the rest looked good.  He completed 2/3 of his passes and had two drops, including Hardman's drop of a nice 30+ yard pass.

He still has work to do, but he is lite years ahead of the "Out of Control" mess we saw last year.

Zach deserved criticism for his lousy play but the offensive line play last year was nothing short of disgraceful.  They never saw a stunt they could pick up and never gave 4 seconds protection on third and long.  Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, would have looked good behind the line that nearly killed Mike White, despite his quick release.

He looks improved this preseason, but for him to still be "painting by numbers" essentially in year 3 is a total embarrassment for a #2 overall pick.

Similar to how franchises go into "rebuild" mode, they have to essentially tear Wilson down from the ground up and try to make him into a professional QB.

The vocal Wilson fanboys / apologists still hanging on would probably support him even if played for NE.

The post-season reports from ZR and others were that he had some sort of performance breakdown between the GB and DEN games, that he couldn't hit the broadside of the barn during the DEN practice week, and how it scared the frick out of the rest of the team.

He proceeded to play like dogsh-t in DEN, where he got bailed out by the Defense, Legatron, and Breece Hall's 65 yard TD run.

That's really scary.

The team is rolling, defying expectation, and he suddenly can't throw the ball.

Even if he can correct the mechanical flaws and bad habits and learn to read defenses etc., what's the cure for not being mentally tough / resilient enough?

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

How quickly you abandoned “there’s no reason to pile onto Zach!”

 

Zach defenders:  “He was drafted # 2 overall for a reason!  He has way more potential than every backup in the league!”

Also Zach defenders:  “Look, it’s not his fault he was drafted # 2 overall and had all these expectations”.

We’re supposed to respect this untapped ceiling he supposedly has while also not being critical when he fails to live up to them or even trying to deny he ever had a high ceiling to begin with.

Can’t make this stuff up.

[Dunnie]

So we're not allowed to criticize his sh*t play because of his draft position?
Trust me, we've ripped on JD plenty for that pick.  Hell, [mention=29148]kevinc855[/mention] heckled him in person!

Hey anyone can criticize anything .. and they do .. but doesn't mean I cant criticize their criticism

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Dunnie]

Zach defenders:  “He was drafted # 2 overall for a reason!  He has way more potential than every backup in the league!”
Also Zach defenders:  “Look, it’s not his fault he was drafted # 2 overall and had all these expectations”.
Can’t make this stuff up.  

You guys are like circular web bots.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Dunnie said:

You guys are like circular web bots.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Pick one argument and stick to it.  Either he has this tremendous ceiling we need to look forward to OR he should never have been the # 2 overall pick in the 1st place.  Can’t have both!

[Hal]

7 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Zach Wilson is not a nfl quarterback.  He showed nothing 0.0 this preseason they are still hiding him on these playcalls he will get eaten alive again when he sees regular season action again this year

Or, Rich Thornburgh, they worked the deeper throws in practice and wanted to iron out the short work in preseason games.   

I can make this simple for you:

_______

Short game in preseason games

+

There’s a ton of practice videos of him working the deep stuff  

=

The chart that shows where Rodgers throws the ball. 

 

 

Almost like they were working on a development plan.   Woah.   Crazy.  

[Dunnie]

 

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Pick one argument and stick to it.  Either he has this tremendous ceiling we need to look forward to OR he should never have been the # 2 overall pick in the 1st place.  Can’t have both!

 

I'll pick he has extreme athletic ability, can make any throw, has improved his footwork, short passing game and pocket presence .. needs to work on better ball placement and anticipation .. basically sky high potential if properly developed as seems to be the case now.

I don't think he was a prototypical 2nd overall pick because he needed development. However .. the Jets knew SF would take him so they secured him at 2. The funny thing is ... I do not recall Zach having anything to do with that decision.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Dunnie

[Hal]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach defenders:  “He was drafted # 2 overall for a reason!  He has way more potential than every backup in the league!”

Also Zach defenders:  “Look, it’s not his fault he was drafted # 2 overall and had all these expectations”.

We’re supposed to respect this untapped ceiling he supposedly has while also not being critical when he fails to live up to them or even trying to deny he ever had a high ceiling to begin with.

Can’t make this stuff up.

You are missing the important belief that MiLF screwed up.   
 

So this thought process is:

Zach was the right guy to draft 

but MiLF screwed up his development

So time with AR and Hackett can get Zach where he needs to be.  

[Dunnie]

Or, Rich Thornburgh, they worked the deeper throws in practice and wanted to iron out the short work in preseason games.   

I can make this simple for you:
_______
Short game in preseason games
+
There’s a ton of practice videos of him working the deep stuff  
=
The chart that shows where Rodgers throws the ball. 

 
 
Almost like they were working on a development plan.   Woah.   Crazy.  

Give this man a cigar for this display of advanced cognitive development.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Hal]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Pick one argument and stick to it.  Either he has this tremendous ceiling we need to look forward to OR he should never have been the # 2 overall pick in the 1st place.  Can’t have both!

 

1 minute ago, Hal said:

You are missing the important belief that MiLF screwed up.   
 

So this thought process is:

Zach was the right guy to draft 

but MiLF screwed up his development

So time with AR and Hackett can get Zach where he needs to be.  

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, Hal said:

You are missing the important belief that MiLF screwed up.   
 

So this thought process is:

Zach was the right guy to draft 

but MiLF screwed up his development

So time with AR and Hackett can get Zach where he needs to be.  

I didn’t miss it, I dismissed it long ago because it’s a terrible argument that I’ve refuted many times but both of you put your fingers in your ears whenever I bring up the supposedly massively inferior QBs who threw for nearly 100 yards more per game in the same set of circumstances.  

Meanwhile MLF got hired immediately after being let go.  

[Jetsfan80]

26 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

 

 

I'll pick he has extreme athletic ability, can make any throw, has improved his footwork, short passing game and pocket presence .. needs to work on better ball placement and anticipation .. basically sky high potential if properly developed as seems to be the case now.

I don't think he was a prototypical 2nd overall pick because he needed development. However .. the Jets knew SF would take him so they secured him at 2. The funny thing is ... I do not recall Zach having anything to do with that decision.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

 

If he had this ceiling you argue he has he would have shown it by now.  3rd year in the league and he’s boring at best.

And I don’t exactly see you out there defending the 49ers for taking another developmental QB in Trey Lance at 3.

[Hal]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I didn’t miss it, I dismissed it long ago because it’s a terrible argument that I’ve refuted many times but both of you put your fingers in your ears whenever I bring up the supposedly massively inferior QBs who threw for nearly 100 yards more per game in the same set of circumstances.  

Meanwhile MLF got hired immediately after being let go.  

Yeah.   We’ve done this a few times.   
 

MiLF is on a rehab assignment that’s probably the best possible place for him as well.  

Both Zach and MiLF landed in ideal positions to recover from what happened.  

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If he had this ceiling you argue he has he would have shown it by now.  3rd year in the league and he’s boring at best.

And I don’t exactly see you out there defending the 49ers for taking another developmental QB in Trey Lance at 3.

Boring would be an improvement. Teddy Bridgewater is boring. Train wrecks are not.

[Rich Thornburgh]

47 minutes ago, Hal said:

Or, Rich Thornburgh, they worked the deeper throws in practice and wanted to iron out the short work in preseason games.   

I can make this simple for you:

_______

Short game in preseason games

+

There’s a ton of practice videos of him working the deep stuff  

=

The chart that shows where Rodgers throws the ball. 

 

 

Almost like they were working on a development plan.   Woah.   Crazy.  

Your boy Zach looked indecisive when he wasn’t doing the designed 1 read dumpoff.  He even looked indecisive when he was trying to execute the designed one read dumpoff.  He has no pocket presence still.  He’s inaccurate.  He had pick 6’s dropped by backups and third stringers who are now flipping burgers at Burger King.

 

 Best backup qb in the NFL

[Hal]

19 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Your boy Zach looked indecisive when he wasn’t doing the designed 1 read dumpoff.  He even looked indecisive when he was trying to execute the designed one read dumpoff.  He has no pocket presence still.  He’s inaccurate.  He had pick 6’s dropped by backups and third stringers who are now flipping burgers at Burger King.

 

 Best backup qb in the NFL

Oh I understand.   Sounds like we have one of those alternate universe Marvel comic book things happening.

Zach ran simple short stuff but looked lots better in this timeline.

The Jets haven’t won a SuperBowl since Namet in this timeline.   I hope yours is going better.   

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, Hal said:

Oh I understand.   Sounds like we have one of those alternate universe Marvel comic book things happening.

Zach ran simple short stuff but looked lots better in this timeline.

The Jets haven’t won a SuperBowl since Namet in this timeline.   I hope yours is going better.   

Zach looked bad this preseason.  Low yardage totals in all the games for the amount of throws he was attempting facing practice squad fodder.  
 

But then again it’s not like he wasn’t the worst qb in the entire nfl the entire previous two regular seasons too

[Dunnie]

If he had this ceiling you argue he has he would have shown it by now.  3rd year in the league and he’s boring at best.
And I don’t exactly see you out there defending the 49ers for taking another developmental QB in Trey Lance at 3.

Lance was demonstrably worse. Even a blind man could see that.

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