Like it or not

[JETS SB]

5 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Please learn to use punctuation correctly. 

As for what you wrote, do you think Boyle or TS are real options? I will tell you, they are not. If they were, one of them would be playing at this point. As far as pulling Zach from a game, Zach has played maddeningly bad but he is making just enough plays now not to get benched. 

For whatever reason, you are blaming this on Rodgers. This has a little to do with Rodgers unless you blame bringing in Hackett,  Cobb, Lazar, and Turner for Rodgers but the reason Zach is playing isn't Rogers, it is JD. JD put all his eggs in the Rogers basket and figured Zach wouldn't  play this season and if he did, it would be for a few weeks and for whatever reason, we are sticking with Zach. It might be that they think he is so mentally  fragile,  that a second benching would irreparably ruin him, or they are actually happy with the record. Regardless, JD is the one not making deals for another QB. I mean they could have made a deal for Dobbs instead of the Vikes and that never was a conversation. Instead we were trying to make deals for Evans and Adams. For what reason, I have no idea. It's  not like getting Zach another WR is going to make a difference. 

IMO, JD needs to be accountable for this mess of an OL and not getting a viable backup for Rogers. It isn't  Zach's fault he sucks. Zach is talented, he is just a bad NFL QB.

I am assuming you meant the quotes. Not sure. I will try my best, though. Sorry. Wasn't my intention to confuse you.

I am not blaming anything on Rodgers. I am just saying, Rodgers has a huge amount of pull, as to what happens with the Jets over the next few years. That includes who the coaches are and who the backup QB is. 

[JETS SB]

8 hours ago, OilfieldJet said:

As long as your being fatalistic, you forgot to add Woody, owner, etc etc etc

Unfortunately, Woody is not going anywhere. 

[JETS SB]

Personally, I predicted 6-11, when Rodgers went down. However we got here, we are 4-4 and still have a chance at the playoffs, with Rodgers recovering at record time. With this being the case and Rodgers having a ton to say in the matter, I don't see major changes or guys being fired anytime soon. If we get destroyed by the Raiders, maybe that changes. 

 

[MR.GANGGREEN28]

These “like it or not” posts always seem so redundant. Obviously every situation is what it is. It’s an online sports forum, of course Jets fans are going to bitch and moan. You’re bitching and moaning about their bitching and moaning and here I am bitching and moaning about your bitching and moaning about their bitching an moaning. It’s what we do bud.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

5 minutes ago, MR.GANGGREEN28 said:

These “like it or not” posts always seem so redundant. Obviously every situation is what it is. It’s an online sports forum, of course Jets fans are going to bitch and moan. You’re bitching and moaning about their bitching and moaning and here I am bitching and moaning about your bitching and moaning about their bitching an moaning. It’s what we do bud.

[Arsis]

Not.

[JETS SB]

9 minutes ago, MR.GANGGREEN28 said:

These “like it or not” posts always seem so redundant. Obviously every situation is what it is. It’s an online sports forum, of course Jets fans are going to bitch and moan. You’re bitching and moaning about their bitching and moaning and here I am bitching and moaning about your bitching and moaning about their bitching an moaning. It’s what we do bud.

Gotcha

[Ron Rico]

Is it fair to say that some fans take criticism of players, personally? The second part of that question is, why?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

23 hours ago, JETS SB said:

“The Jets will win on Sunday and Zach Wilson will be the reason why”  - quote today from  Brandon Tierney WFAN

Tierney is beyond delusional.

Some serious Stockholm syndrome here.

This ”yeah but Zach is still the best option” garbage was by design.

To the detriment of the team, the selfish GM still refuses to add anybody who can outshine his precious #2 overall pick.

 

[MR.GANGGREEN28]

50 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Heres where you lunatics lose me.

NFL teams do tons and tons of film review, and they break down every play, every assignment, and review it. If ZW is making this type of mistake all game long, every game, or even a few times a game, he has absolutely zero business being the QB of this team, I think everyone would agree on that.

How do you lunatics not put out more vitriol for Saleh, Hackett, JD, Woody than you do for ZW? ZW isnt playing himself, these bozos are playing him.

Now, I have also seen analysts talk about how every single QB, even elite ones, every single games has several plays that can be criticized, from recognizing easy coverages, to missing easy throws.

What I have no idea of is what those metrics look like, and how ZW compares to those metrics, or if the Jets are even smart enough to keep metrics.

But my point is, if ZW is this bad, I have much more of a problme with the noBrain trust playing him than I do ZW for sucking. He likely can't help that he sucks, but the noBrain trust can help themselves by not playing him

Just going to speak for myself here, Frank, but when I criticize “Zach Wilson,” I am criticizing “The Zach Wilson Project,” which includes the GM who drafted him, the coaches who advocate playing him, and the halfwit “fans” who—in the face of every metric showing that he is terrible—still try to defend his play on the field and continued existence on the roster. Much of the criticism you see today is in direct response to one of Zach’s oddball fans posting something like “they should open up the offense for Zach” or “Zach is being held back by [insert peripheral element]” or “Zach will learn to process the game faster.” 
 

In summary, I agree with you that Zach’s critics need to broaden the scope of who is to blame for The Zach Project. 

[fltflo]

The kid is in his third year and still making the same mistakes he did as a rookie. There has been very little growth shown over that time, no need to debate or say more.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Ron Rico]

14 minutes ago, MR.GANGGREEN28 said:

 

We've been over this and over this 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Heres where you lunatics lose me.

NFL teams do tons and tons of film review, and they break down every play, every assignment, and review it. If ZW is making this type of mistake all game long, every game, or even a few times a game, he has absolutely zero business being the QB of this team, I think everyone would agree on that.

How do you lunatics not put out more vitriol for Saleh, Hackett, JD, Woody than you do for ZW? ZW isnt playing himself, these bozos are playing him.

Now, I have also seen analysts talk about how every single QB, even elite ones, every single games has several plays that can be criticized, from recognizing easy coverages, to missing easy throws.

What I have no idea of is what those metrics look like, and how ZW compares to those metrics, or if the Jets are even smart enough to keep metrics.

But my point is, if ZW is this bad, I have much more of a problme with the noBrain trust playing him than I do ZW for sucking. He likely can't help that he sucks, but the noBrain trust can help themselves by not playing him

 

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Just going to speak for myself here, Frank, but when I criticize “Zach Wilson,” I am criticizing “The Zach Wilson Project,” which includes the GM who drafted him, the coaches who advocate playing for him, and the halfwit “fans” who still—in the face of every metric showing that he is terrible—still try to defend his play on the field and continued existence on the roster. Much of the criticism you see today is in direct response to one of Zach’s oddball fans posting something like “they should open up the offense for Zach” or “Zach is being held back by [insert peripheral element]” or “Zach will learn to process the game faster.” 
 

In summary, I agree with you that Zach’s critics need to broaden the scope of who is to blame for The Zach Project. 

We haven’t drafted or developed a QB with sustainability since Kenny O. This problem is beyond Zach.  But Zach is still bad.  As Frank mentions, all the hours, film work etc… and we still cant field a competent offense speaks to the organization.  

[Rich Thornburgh]

23 hours ago, JETS SB said:

Zach Wilson is our QB for the reminder of the season or until Aaron Rodgers returns

Robert Saleh is our coach for the remainder of this season and next season 

Joe Douglas is our GM for the remainder of this season and next season

Nathaniel Hackett is our OC for the remainder of this season and next season

Whenever Aaron Rodgers returns and is ready to play and wants to play, he will be our QB until either he wants to retire or gets injured again

Jets nation will continue to bitch about every one of these things, even though they will never be listened to. 

“The Jets will win on Sunday and Zach Wilson will be the reason why”  - quote today from  Brandon Tierney WFAN

Woody has an account here?

[Flea Flicking Frank]

7 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

 

We haven’t drafted or developed a QB with sustainability since Kenny O. This problem is beyond Zach.  But Zach is still bad.  As Frank mentions, all the hours, film work etc… and we still cant field a competent offense speaks to the organization.  

This is my EXACT point. I heard all the same sh*t about Pennington, Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, now ZW. Everyone cant wait to blame everything on those guys and hate them with all their little hearts, yet nobody says jack sh*t about how we keep bringing in the same regime with differnet names and haircuts, who keep picking the bad QB's, letting them play when they suck, not developing them, and sticking with them. Until we bring in someone who knows jack sh*t about offense, we will keep having the same results. So while everyone is busy with their ZW voodoo dolls, I will continue to call out the real problem, which is we don't have the right regime who knows what they are doing with QBs.

Somehow this makes me a ZW fanboy

 

[Ron Rico]

We've been over this and over this

 

[Ron Rico]

blaht blaht yuh!

[Hex]

58 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Tierney is beyond delusional.

Some serious Stockholm syndrome here.

This ”yeah but Zach is still the best option” garbage was by design.

To the detriment of the team, the selfish GM still refuses to add anybody who can outshine his precious #2 overall pick.

 

Actually, he did. His name was Aaron Rodgers.

[Ron Rico]

Tierney and his "broadcast voice". He's an assclown.

[southparkcpa]

7 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

This is my EXACT point. I heard all the same sh*t about Pennington, Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, now ZW. Everyone cant wait to blame everything on those guys and hate them with all their little hearts, yet nobody says jack sh*t about how we keep bringing in the same regime with differnet names and haircuts, who keep picking the bad QB's, letting them play when they suck, not developing them, and sticking with them. Until we bring in someone who knows jack sh*t about offense, we will keep having the same results. So while everyone is busy with their ZW voodoo dolls, I will continue to call out the real problem, which is we don't have the right regime who knows what they are doing with QBs.

Somehow this makes me a ZW fanboy

 

Zach is the worst of all the QBs you listed….  Don’t think that’s debatable.  

[Ron Rico]

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Zach is the worst of all the QBs you listed….  Don’t think that’s debatable.  

Zach is literally 10x worse than I thought he’d be and I thought he was going to suck bawls

[Flea Flicking Frank]

14 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Zach is the worst of all the QBs you listed….  Don’t think that’s debatable.  

Annmd there it is, who gives a sh*t? Would you rather a sh*t sandwhich it a diarrhea smoothie?

bad is bad, and my point is still 200% factual.

I remember everyone saying bro, if rex obly had a qb, he’d be best evah, yeah **** him, he had no ability to hire someone who could get him a qb, same with Saleh, so I don’t give two sh*ts how good your defense is if you fail miserably at the most important position, qb

[Flea Flicking Frank]

16 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Zach is literally 10x worse than I thought he’d be and I thought he was going to suck bawls

Congrats on that bro

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Just going to speak for myself here, Frank, but when I criticize “Zach Wilson,” I am criticizing “The Zach Wilson Project,” which includes the GM who drafted him, the coaches who advocate playing him, and the halfwit “fans” who—in the face of every metric showing that he is terrible—still try to defend his play on the field and continued existence on the roster. Much of the criticism you see today is in direct response to one of Zach’s oddball fans posting something like “they should open up the offense for Zach” or “Zach is being held back by [insert peripheral element]” or “Zach will learn to process the game faster.” 
 

In summary, I agree with you that Zach’s critics need to broaden the scope of who is to blame for The Zach Project. 

Fair, and I'd take a lot less issue with the critics if they threw as much hate as the people actually responsible, as they did ZW. 

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, JETS SB said:

I am assuming you meant the quotes. Not sure. I will try my best, though. Sorry. Wasn't my intention to confuse you.

I am not blaming anything on Rodgers. I am just saying, Rodgers has a huge amount of pull, as to what happens with the Jets over the next few years. That includes who the coaches are and who the backup QB is. 

Everyone is saying Rogers wants  Zach as the backup. I really doubt he gives a 💩

[southparkcpa]

31 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Annmd there it is, who gives a sh*t? Would you rather a sh*t sandwhich it a diarrhea smoothie?

bad is bad, and my point is still 200% factual.

I remember everyone saying bro, if rex obly had a qb, he’d be best evah, yeah **** him, he had no ability to hire someone who could get him a qb, same with Saleh, so I don’t give two sh*ts how good your defense is if you fail miserably at the most important position, qb

 

30 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Congrats on that bro

No one is hating on you when we say Zach sucks. He simply is the worst of all the "Let's draft the young stud" mentality that has failed miserably.  When we were playing Fitz and McCown, we pass on Mahommes. all part of the process. 

I am not saying you aren't correct.  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

 

No one is hating on you when we say Zach sucks. He simply is the worst of all the "Let's draft the young stud" mentality that has failed miserably.  When we were playing Fitz and McCown, we pass on Mahommes. all part of the process. 

I am not saying you aren't correct.  

I don't take it as hating on me, but its giving a pass to the sh*t organization who cant hire people who can find and develop a QB, thats where all the hate should be directed, ZW didnt draft himself, he can't play himself, its the idiots in charge who drafted him and play him, and didnt get anyone better

[southparkcpa]

8 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't take it as hating on me, but its giving a pass to the sh*t organization who cant hire people who can find and develop a QB, thats where all the hate should be directed, ZW didnt draft himself, he can't play himself, its the idiots in charge who drafted him and play him, and didnt get anyone better

On the old Jetsinsider forum... my signature read "Players come and go... you can't suck this long without poor management".  That was around 2013-14 or so.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

On the old Jetsinsider forum... my signature read "Players come and go... you can't suck this long without poor management".  That was around 2013-14 or so.

and here we sit over 10 years later

same thing

[T0mShane]

54 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

 

We haven’t drafted or developed a QB with sustainability since Kenny O. This problem is beyond Zach.  But Zach is still bad.  As Frank mentions, all the hours, film work etc… and we still cant field a competent offense speaks to the organization.  

Bottom line is that there are very, very few even *good* QBs drafted the past 20 years, and most of those were drafted top three(?). The Jets keep drafting the same kid—humble west coast mushes who come wide-eyed to the NY media market and get steamrolled. The only exception was Geno, who was a weird kid from Florida. The most inexcusable misses for the Jets in those twenty years were Darnold over Josh Allen and Lamar, and passing on Mahomes and (arguably) Watson to draft Jamal Adams. Even the Zach pick is somewhat excusable because (1) it was going to be Douglas’ one and only shot at a big QB prospect (the following year’s was Pickett and Malik Willis) and (2) every QB drafted after Zach has been a bust (Trey Lance, Fields, Mac Jones, etc). Otherwise, it would have taken extreme luck and good fortune for the Jets to have stumbled into a QB, especially when they’re so slow to give up on the busts they’ve already drafted. 
 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Bottom line is that there are very, very few even *good* QBs drafted the past 20 years, and most of those were drafted top three(?). The Jets keep drafting the same kid—humble west coast mushes who come wide-eyed to the NY media market and get steamrolled. The only exception was Geno, who was a weird kid from Florida. The most inexcusable misses for the Jets in those twenty years were Darnold over Josh Allen and Lamar, and passing on Mahomes and (arguably) Watson to draft Jamal Adams. Even the Zach pick is somewhat excusable because (1) it was going to be Douglas’ one and only shot at a big QB prospect (the following year’s was Pickett and Malik Willis) and (2) every QB drafted after Zach has been a bust (Trey Lance, Fields, Mac Jones, etc). Otherwise, it would have taken extreme luck and good fortune for the Jets to have stumbled into a QB, especially when they’re so slow to give up on the busts they’ve already drafted. 
 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

The problem is many-fold. First, colleges are running offenses that are so different than NFL offenses, so projecting is harder. Also, the skill set is so limited in college because of the sets, the footwork is different, the reads are different, etc.

THEN, we play them immediately where we used to give most kids a few years to learn the nfl system, now we throw them in instantly, and if they arent good really quickly, its an impossible spot.

On top of that, the coaching is worse than ever. The coaching pool is recycled family and friends much more than coaching talent.

All combined leads to bad QB play in the NFL

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Feels like Rodgers coming down from the rafters to protect Zach is a little silly. Rodgers understands QB play better than most and he knows Zach sucks. He’s also acutely aware that Zach has put Nate Hackett squarely on the griddle. Rodgers has a history of advocating for his no-chance sycophant backups (Kurt Benkert, etc), but that’s less about their ability and more about their servility. Hell, Tim Boyle is on this roster solely because Rodgers likes him. If the Jets bench Zach, Rodgers won’t blink, and if they dump Zach in the offseason, the Jets can simply replace him with a late round pick who can nuzzle at Rodgers’ teat. 

Just to be clear my friend, the "less likely" was in reference to the Jets drafting a QB in the 1st in 2024.  Not the possibility of a Zach benching. o7

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

.......yet nobody says jack sh*t about how we keep bringing in the same regime with differnet names and haircuts............

I had an entire thread a while back based around this very concept.  The "stop hiring ex-D-Co rookie head coaches, and stop letting those rookie head coaches draft 1st round QB's".  A thread dedicated to the idea that we need to shift this franchises management focus to experienced, Offensive-minded coaches from our quagmire of D-Co's.  I detailed not only the low odds of a rookie D-Co and their draft pick QB winning a Super Bowl, but showed that the majority of Super Bowls in recent decades have been won by experiences offensive-minded coaches with a previous track record of success elsewhere.  

See, the problem seems to be that some folks have is they only see or read things they want to, and they ignore the rest.

For example, you say this:

Quote

Fair, and I'd take a lot less issue with the critics if they threw as much hate as the people actually responsible, as they did ZW. 

When I've been one of JD's most consistent critics.  Not just Zach's.  JD and Saleh get my criticism too.  Especially JD, who I think is vastly over-rated by this community, generally.

And you've certainly not "taken less issue" with me, on the contrary....

Seems you either missed all my JD criticism over the many years or....yeah.  You'd have to tell me.

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

So while everyone is busy with their ZW voodoo dolls, I will continue to call out the real problem

Make no mistake, multiple things can and often are true.

JD and Saleh are an issue.  One that needs addressed.

But Zach Wilson IS absolutely, unquestionably, a major and central part of the problem.