Zach “reluctant” to start again at QB

[Matt39]

45 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 I put my ass on the line behind that sieve you call an OL and that turf that’s shredded, knees, ankles, and tendons week after week with a game plan by a guy who doesn’t know what the red zone is and you’re benching me for Tim effing Boyle?

I had to listen to your hallmark cards platitudes for 3 years and your benching me?

Show an ounce of loyalty and cut me now so I can get away from this miserable organization.

The team quit on Saleh last year.  They quit on him this year and Saleh hasn’t shown an ounce of loyalty to his players.  They cut guys who don’t play every week but when they could make trades to improve the team crickets.   

Zach has been thrown under the bus two years in a row by JD and Saleh.  The “reset” he needed never happened.  Now Zach is the bad guy for being “reluctant” to play for this third rate organization.

Zach has been awful, he’s not the bad guy here.  The HC and GM are.  

How has the team quit? I thought the defense played hard against Atlanta. They’ve played hard all year.

[Asymmetrical]

49 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 I put my ass on the line behind that sieve you call an OL and that turf that’s shredded, knees, ankles, and tendons week after week with a game plan by a guy who doesn’t know what the red zone is and you’re benching me for Tim effing Boyle?

I had to listen to your hallmark cards platitudes for 3 years and your benching me?

Show an ounce of loyalty and cut me now so I can get away from this miserable organization.

The team quit on Saleh last year.  They quit on him this year and Saleh hasn’t shown an ounce of loyalty to his players.  They cut guys who don’t play every week but when they could make trades to improve the team crickets.   

Zach has been thrown under the bus two years in a row by JD and Saleh.  The “reset” he needed never happened.  Now Zach is the bad guy for being “reluctant” to play for this third rate organization.

Zach has been awful, he’s not the bad guy here.  The HC and GM are.  

 

bro isn't playing for free lol. he gets 11 million dollars next year no matter what. Playing qb for the Jets is a tough gig but cmon man, Tony Adams had a bone in his hand pop through the skin and came back in the same game. Wilson has gotten opportunity after unearned opportunity and all he's done is piss his pants. He's a weiner 

[Biggs]

13 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

 

bro isn't playing for free lol. he gets 11 million dollars next year no matter what. Playing qb for the Jets is a tough gig but cmon man, Tony Adams had a bone in his hand pop through the skin and came back in the same game. Wilson has gotten opportunity after unearned opportunity and all he's done is piss his pants. He's a weiner 

Bro he gets a little over a million next year if he's on the roster.   The cap hits 11 million. 
 

[Asymmetrical]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Bro he gets a little over a million next year if he's on the roster.   The cap hits 11 million. 
 

well that changes everything

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Asymmetrical said:

well that changes everything

Yes it does.  Zach earned a huge contract because JD drafted him 2nd in the draft.  He earned almost all of his money from the Jets because the Jets were part of a management lockout. The owners made a deal with the players to cap rookie salaries and slot them.

Rookies aren't paid based on production they are paid based on where they are drafted.  2nd contracts, 5th year options and renegiotations are based on production.

Zach earned his money by his tape and pro-day and having an organization like the Jets take him No. 2 in the draft.  He literally doesn't earn more than the vet minimum for playing for the NY Jets. 

[K_O_Brien]

Two and a half years after it should have happened, but sounds like Wilson is finally telling the Jets to get lost. 

I'd say not a day goes by when Team Wilson doesn't regret doing this in the predraft process. They should have listened to Steve Young. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Two and a half years after it should have happened, but sounds like Wilson is finally telling the Jets to get lost. 

I'd say not a day goes by when Team Wilson doesn't regret doing this in the predraft process. They should have listened to Steve Young. 

Yep.  Wilson probably checked out mentally a while ago but we’re finally hearing about it now.  

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

Two and a half years after it should have happened, but sounds like Wilson is finally telling the Jets to get lost. 

I'd say not a day goes by when Team Wilson doesn't regret doing this in the predraft process. They should have listened to Steve Young. 

Team Wilson loves the Jets. He gets to live in Utah and moonlight as a professional QB.

[Asymmetrical]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Yes it does.  Zach earned a huge contract because JD drafted him 2nd in the draft.  He earned almost all of his money from the Jets because the Jets were part of a management lockout. The owners made a deal with the players to cap rookie salaries and slot them.

Rookies aren't paid based on production they are paid based on where they are drafted.  2nd contracts, 5th year options and renegiotations are based on production.

Zach earned his money by his tape and pro-day and having an organization like the Jets take him No. 2 in the draft.  He literally doesn't earn more than the vet minimum for playing for the NY Jets. 

I'm not sure what we're talking about. I have no desire to claw back his money. You're absolutely correct about the pay structures etc but my main line of thought was "Zach Wilson isn't good and is also being a baby" not to get into the weeds of rookie pay scale.

 

I don't think we agree on him being thrown under the bus. I'm not sure you can find an nfl player who has gotten more rope and praise from an organization despite historically poor production. The jets are a mess of an organization, that much I assume we agree on, but it's a terrible look to ostensibly be a professional and see your teammates play through painful injury on a lousy team, and decide "nah I'm good" when presented with an opportunity to get on the field and maybe improve your film/reputation/whatever. 

 

 

[Fantasy Island]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

 I put my ass on the line behind that sieve you call an OL and that turf that’s shredded, knees, ankles, and tendons week after week with a game plan by a guy who doesn’t know what the red zone is and you’re benching me for Tim effing Boyle?

I had to listen to your hallmark cards platitudes for 3 years and your benching me?

Show an ounce of loyalty and cut me now so I can get away from this miserable organization.

The team quit on Saleh last year.  They quit on him this year and Saleh hasn’t shown an ounce of loyalty to his players.  They cut guys who don’t play every week but when they could make trades to improve the team crickets.   

Zach has been thrown under the bus two years in a row by JD and Saleh.  The “reset” he needed never happened.  Now Zach is the bad guy for being “reluctant” to play for this third rate organization.

Zach has been awful, he’s not the bad guy here.  The HC and GM are.  

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, Asymmetrical said:

I'm not sure what we're talking about. I have no desire to claw back his money. You're absolutely correct about the pay structures etc but my main line of thought was "Zach Wilson isn't good and is also being a baby" not to get into the weeds of rookie pay scale.

 

I don't think we agree on him being thrown under the bus. I'm not sure you can find an nfl player who has gotten more rope and praise from an organization despite historically poor production. The jets are a mess of an organization, that much I assume we agree on, but it's a terrible look to ostensibly be a professional and see your teammates play through painful injury on a lousy team, and decide "nah I'm good" when presented with an opportunity to get on the field and maybe improve your film/reputation/whatever. 

 

 

Zach didn't need rope and praise.  He needed a veteran QB and an experienced OC to learn from.  Instead he got rope and praise.  He wasn't ready.  The Jets absolutely cheated this kid.  He looks like he may never have gotten it but the rope and praise insured it.  

[Biggs]

27 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Team Wilson loves the Jets. He gets to live in Utah and moonlight as a professional QB.

I'm sure he's enjoyed coming back here and playing on that sh*t turf with no OL and no real coaching and getting killed by the fan base and the press and thrown under the bus by his HC every week.   He's obviously living his dream playing for the NY Jets.   They will lift him after they reset him, after they realize they don't have a QB who can play so they can reset him. 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

So what's the latest gossip today, ladies?

[Matt39]

21 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm sure he's enjoyed coming back here and playing on that sh*t turf with no OL and no real coaching and getting killed by the fan base and the press and thrown under the bus by his HC every week.   He's obviously living his dream playing for the NY Jets.   They will lift him after they reset him, after they realize they don't have a QB who can play so they can reset him. 

 

His paycheck is clearing 

[Biggs]

Just now, Matt39 said:

His paycheck is clearing 

He'd get the same paycheck to sit on the bench with a good QB and OC.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He'd get the same paycheck to sit on the bench with a good QB and OC.

He’s not getting that opportunity elsewhere. He’s on permanent scholarship with uncle woody 

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

He’s not getting that opportunity elsewhere. He’s on permanent scholarship with uncle woody 

Tim Boyle had a job in the NFL.  Zach is absolutely getting another opportunity.  

[Ulrich]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:49 PM, Rob Moore said:

I’ll wait for more info before having an opinion, but something about this reporting just seems off.  
 

What I DO NOT get is how some of you are positively giddy over this report.  Like why?  Why celebrate drama (or potential drama) with your favorite team?  What purpose does this serve? 
What purpose does it serve to roll out the circus pics, etc.  What twisted pleasure do you guys derive from acting like 6th grade drama queens little girls over this type of stuff?  Most fans don’t want drama, but jets fans seem to crave it? 
End rant, I apologize .

It’s Jets Derangement Syndrome. Suffering through one the most uniquely maddening painful seasons in Jets history … fans are  grabbing on to any entertainment to divert themselves from horror lol. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, K_O_Brien said:

Two and a half years after it should have happened, but sounds like Wilson is finally telling the Jets to get lost. 

I'd say not a day goes by when Team Wilson doesn't regret doing this in the predraft process. They should have listened to Steve Young. 

Just a reminder, we root here for the NY Jets.

Not the Utah Wilsons.

Seems some folks may have forgotten that fact.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

He’s not getting that opportunity elsewhere. He’s on permanent scholarship with uncle woody 

Will be interesting to revisit this opinion in the offseason.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

On 12/4/2023 at 10:27 AM, T0mShane said:

 

Brings back memories of Kerry Collins and his early days in Carolina. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just a reminder, we root here for the NY Jets.

Not the Utah Wilsons.

Seems some folks may have forgotten that fact.

I don't think its that simple. Sure, we are Jets fans, at least I am. BUT, there are bigger ramifications and questions that come out of this. Half the fan base wants to draft a new QB high this year, with this regime. What makes anyone think that they have even a small chance of getting it right next time? I don't.

In addition, the optics of this from the rest of the world not Jets focussed is just that we are a disaster of an org, and a career death sentence for a young QB. 

I have said many times, I  don't give two sh*ts about ZW, I don't know him, nor his family, and really don't care about him. I care about the Jets, and this situation has been terrible for the Jets, just like Darnold situation was, just like Geno was, just like Sanchez is. When you whiff on a QB high draft pick, its really bad for the org, at some point we need to stop doing the same stupid sh*t and expecting a different result

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I don't think its that simple.

Yes, it is in fact that simple to me.

If you find directly yourself rooting against the team and organization, especially when also rooting for a specific player to leave and do better elsewhere, you might want to look at that as a sign maybe you should move on to a team you can, in fact, actually just root for.  

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

BUT, there are bigger ramifications and questions that come out of this.

Asking questions, doing critical analysis, even being highly and angrily criterial of existing staff/decisions is all 100% fine.

But when you start cheering on bust-ass players telling the Org. to go **** themselves, and/or start rooting ahead of time for negative/bad outcomes to spite the team you supposedly root for, IMO that crosses a line.

I'm as critical of this team as anyone, but I'm not going to root or cheer if Zach Wilson refuses to play when called upon.  JMO, and I respect others feel differently.  

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Yes, it is in fact that simple to me.

If you find directly yourself rooting against the team and organization, especially when also rooting for a specific player to leave and do better elsewhere, you might want to look at that as a sign maybe you should move on to a team you can, in fact, actually just root for.  

Asking questions, doing critical analysis, even being highly and angrily criterial of existing staff/decisions is all 100% fine.

But when you start cheering on bust-ass players telling the Org. to go **** themselves, and/or start rooting ahead of time for negative/bad outcomes to spite the team you supposedly root for, IMO that crosses a line.

I'm as critical of this team as anyone, but I'm not going to root or cheer if Zach Wilson refuses to play when called upon.  JMO, and I respect others feel differently.  

 

Your rooting intentions matter here. Sometimes things have to get so bad that changes need to be made. If you are rooting for ZW for the sake of rooting for ZW, at the expense of the Jets, you are not really a Jets fan, you are a ZW fan.

If the mindset is lets see ZW go somewhere next year, look like a competent QB, and get Woody to finally wise up and make some real meaningful changes that will be ultimately good for the Jets, that is different.

 

[K_O_Brien]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just a reminder, we root here for the NY Jets.

Not the Utah Wilsons.

Seems some folks may have forgotten that fact.

I couldn't care less what happens to Wilson when he is cut. 

My point was to look at his NFL career from his perspective, not someone, like myself who has been following the Jets since 1986. 

The Wilson's had serious misgivings about been drafted by the NY Jets, all of which have been borne out. 

You can assume the next first round rookie QB the Jets court, will have the same concern. And prefer to go elsewhere. 

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Your rooting intentions matter here. Sometimes things have to get so bad that changes need to be made.

There is no evidence that actually makes any difference.  Look no further than our own Jets the past 13 years, and the Washington Commander the past 20 years. 

"If we only hope it gets a little worse, something HAS to change!".  Frustrated Fans Everywhere.

Except nope, it doesn't.  It really doesn't.  There is no (on field) bottom to which Owners become whole new people and suddenly start doing it all correctly, lol.  

15 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

If you are rooting for ZW for the sake of rooting for ZW, at the expense of the Jets, you are not really a Jets fan, you are a ZW fan.

If the mindset is lets see ZW go somewhere next year, look like a competent QB, and get Woody to finally wise up and make some real meaningful changes that will be ultimately good for the Jets, that is different.

Two points:

Fans here have been flogging this "I want X to go elsewhere and prove he was really awesome so **** the Jets for screwing up X while he was here" meme for literal decades.

Again, Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, Hackenberg even, soon to be Wilson.

None of them proved great elsewhere (Geno the closest, 8 full years and several teams later), none of the "showed Woody how wrong he was", and Woody, doubtless, never cared in the first place because he's not the hands-on, QB-picking tyrant fans want him to be.  He's a bad Owner, who picks bad GM's, who draft bad QB's and pair them with rookie D-Co Head Coaches, and the results, frankly, are predictable.  The Jets have done this several times now over more than a decade, Woody isn't "learning" from all that now, just because of Zach Wilson.

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

I couldn't care less what happens to Wilson when he is cut. 

My point was to look at his NFL career from his perspective, not someone, like myself who has been following the Jets since 1986. 

I don't give a sh*t about his perspective or any other emo about his feelings. 

He has been paid very well by this team, has failed to deliver at a catastrophic level, and he is under contract here. 

If asked to play out the string now, and he is not injured, he should stfu and play.

18 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

The Wilson's had serious misgivings about been drafted by the NY Jets, all of which have been borne out.

Again, this view gives a complete pass to the player, and blames the organization for everything.  

Zach Wilson is the biggest reason Zach Wilson failed as an NFL QB.  He isn't very good at playing QB.

Does the Org. have sins too, absolutely and unquestionably.  Plenty of blame to go around.

But it starts with Zach sucking at doing his job.  His "misgivings" are irrelevant to his own direct and personal lack of quality performance.

18 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

You can assume the next first round rookie QB the Jets court, will have the same concern. And prefer to go elsewhere. 

Well, that's why we have an NFL Draft and college kids aren't all just free agents.  

[Biggs]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, it is in fact that simple to me.

If you find directly yourself rooting against the team and organization, especially when also rooting for a specific player to leave and do better elsewhere, you might want to look at that as a sign maybe you should move on to a team you can, in fact, actually just root for.  

Asking questions, doing critical analysis, even being highly and angrily criterial of existing staff/decisions is all 100% fine.

But when you start cheering on bust-ass players telling the Org. to go **** themselves, and/or start rooting ahead of time for negative/bad outcomes to spite the team you supposedly root for, IMO that crosses a line.

I'm as critical of this team as anyone, but I'm not going to root or cheer if Zach Wilson refuses to play when called upon.  JMO, and I respect others feel differently.  

 

What complete BS.  I've been a fan of this team since 65.  There were years of dysfunction that on balance was pretty close to fan abuse.  This seond half of the past two years have been two of them.   To see what this franchise was at the very begining and see what it is today is heart breaking to any real Jets fan.  And you don't have to go back to the 60's.  There have been several years of really good Jets football and really good NFL football for Jets fans to enjoy without winning a championship.

To be subjected to the shtty football that this organization has trotted out for 2 straight years now is an insult to the fan base.  JD sat on his ass during the trade deadline.  Not Jets fans.  Rodgers had an injury and was sent out to save us in week 1 only to last 4 plays.  

This team needs real change top down change and it's not going to happen if the fan base just continues to take it.  All we can do is root for losses and hope the owner is embarrased enough to make changes.

Don't tell the fan base that they are bad fans for being fed up with incompetence.  Lossing is one thing.  This team can't get into the redzone.

[Warfish]

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

What complete BS.  I've been a fan of this team since 65.

So you got to see a Super Bowl in your lifetime.  Good for you.

Most of us never got that.

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 There were years of dysfunction that on balance was pretty close to fan abuse.  This seond half of the past two years have been two of them.   To see what this franchise was at the very begining and see what it is today is heart breaking to any real Jets fan.

I agree completely.  We're a joke franchise, the butt end of other fanbases constant mocking.

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 And you don't have to go back to the 60's.  There have been several years of really good Jets football and really good NFL football for Jets fans to enjoy without winning a championship.

Few and far between, sadly.

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

To be subjected to the shtty football that this organization has trotted out for 2 straight years now is an insult to the fan base.  JD sat on his ass during the trade deadline.  Not Jets fans.  Rodgers had an injury and was sent out to save us in week 1 only to last 4 plays.  

Again, you will get no argument from me on the pain and suffering we have all endured as Jets Fans, most of us over 4 to 6 decades.

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

This team needs real change top down change and it's not going to happen if the fan base just continues to take it.  All we can do is root for losses and hope the owner is embarrased enough to make changes.

And this is where you lose me, and I would push back.  There is no amount of losses that are going to make Woody Johnson be something or someone other than who he is.  There is no "just one more horrible loss and Woody will see the light" moment.  No "if only Zach does great elsewhere and we suck more once he's gone, Woody will have to see the light" scenario.

I speak with experience, because down here in DC we had just as bad (if not materially worse) an Owner, and all the fan anger and rooting for the very worst did nothing but create a cancerous, bitter, angry, hateful fanbase.  It never moved the needle one single iota on Dan or how Dan ran this team.  Not.  One.  Inch.

The same is true here, except Woody isn't nearly so scum as Dan was/is.  A bad, poor decision making owner, absolutely!  But not human scam like Dan.  

Rooting for losses and bad things for the Jets only will serve to make you more and more bitter and to root more and more against your own team, it will not change Woody Johnson.

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Don't tell the fan base that they are bad fans for being fed up with incompetence.

I didn't.

If you read what I wrote (rather than just spasmaticly negrep it) I said we root here for the NY Jets.

Not the Utah Wilsons.

I stand by that comment. 

If you're rooting for the betterment of Zach Wilson at the expense of the New York Jets, I don't need to hear how great a Jets fan you are.  

32 minutes ago, Biggs said:

 Lossing is one thing.  This team can't get into the redzone.

It is entirely pathetic Biggs, no question, and no argument from me on that.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Will be interesting to revisit this opinion in the offseason.

By the time Zach is gone we’ll be drafting his brother 

[Hex]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

By the time Zach is gone we’ll be drafting his brother 

This forum would go nuclear. The sadist part of me kind of wants to see it

[jetsman]

cant make this stuff up. just once i would like a season with a competent team with no drama. unbelievable  

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

By the time Zach is gone we’ll be drafting his brother 

Depends on how much his Uncle paid Woody, amirite?

[Biggs]

To review:  Zach gets benched.  Zach tells player he's reluctant to play if asked to play.  Player leaks it to the press.  Zach is named the starter.  

For a kid from Utah he's playing some 3D chess with the Jets management. 

[K_O_Brien]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I don't give a sh*t about his perspective or any other emo about his feelings. 

Cool, but my initial post was to consider the perspective of the Wilsons, and not anyone else's, on his time with the Jets, including the pre-draft process. That is all. 

The rest of your post, I largely agree with.