Follow The Model

[Maxman]

A JN Editorial by Michael Mici is on the front page now. This is the first editorial from this author. Check it out, you won't be disappointed.

http://www.jetnation.com/?p=492

[bitonti]

this is all well and good but people forget what a lightning strike Tom Brady was - and continues to be - for that team.

You can put street free agents at cornerback and converted DE at OLB that's all well and good but without a bonafide franchise QB, Bill bellichek is just another very good coach who couldn't close the deal. Tom Brady makes that whole team better...

[mbn007]

And unless Ramsey suddenly grows up, or Chad gets very healthy, we lack the Q/B necessary to take that big first step.

[quietjets]

good reading.. I surely hope Jets find the way to the Super Bowl.. I am tired of blaming on someone who is responsible for Jets' failure for many years... I like the feeling when Yankees won the first WS since late 70's. I want that feeling again and this time it has to be with Jets...

[faba]

There are no quick fixes - so far I like what I see in trying to put together hard working players in place

Nice article Mike

[NIGHT STALKER]

My question is...why must we follow the Pats model of winning? Dallas Cowboys also won 3 out of 4 SB's in the 90's (and mind you, two different HC's), and I don't recall anyone following their model for winning.

[quietjets]

My question is...why must we follow the Pats model of winning? Dallas Cowboys also won 3 out of 4 SB's in the 90's (and mind you, two different HC's), and I don't recall anyone following their model for winning.

90's era is anicent..

Anyway, Cowboys and Patriots are different... Cowboys rebuilt from a scratch. Patriots revamped the entire team by patching in several holes with veterans(no "I" players)..

I prefer Patriots' method to improve Jets because they have a few good talented players under contract for 4 or 5 years..

[NIGHT STALKER]

90's era is anicent..

Anyway, Cowboys and Patriots are different... Cowboys rebuilt from a scratch. Patriots revamped the entire team by patching in several holes with veterans(no "I" players)..

I prefer Patriots' method to improve Jets because they have a few good talented players under contract for 4 or 5 years..

I'm not saying which franchise do you want to try and mold a SB caliber team from. All I'm saying is, back then, I don't recall any team trying to model their team after the Cowboys.

[PatsFanTX]

Dallas Cowboys also won 3 out of 4 SB's in the 90's (and mind you, two different HC's), and I don't recall anyone following their model for winning.

And the Cowboys were pre-FA and pre-salary cap.

Huge difference right there.

[NIGHT STALKER]

And the Cowboys were pre-FA and pre-salary cap.

Huge difference right there.

Jesus H Christ! We're not talking about how the team was developed...we're talking schemes here. Doesn't make a difference how you got your players, but how you got them to play in a particular scheme.

[quietjets]

I'm not saying which franchise do you want to try and mold a SB caliber team from. All I'm saying is, back then, I don't recall any team trying to model their team after the Cowboys.

Good Question... Time changes I guess.

[bitonti]

all we need is to take a 6th round QB who is a HOF'er and the Jets will be awesome - just like the Pats!

[PFSIKH]

The Patriots way might be one of the hardest ways to win.

It is built on the concept of sustaining success.

Easier said then done. You must be disciplined.

The Patriot Nation was up in arms when Willie and Adam, to name but a few, left this year. Past seasons when a name player left and the Pats were right at the cap number or only had a few million to spread around, it was an easier pill to swallow.

Now, the Patriots Nation is flipping out, but it prooves Belichcik and Pioli are smarter and in charge for a reason. Yes, signing Adam, Wille and David would have been nice. However, signing David would be a starting point for Deoin. Keeping WIllie and Adam, would eventually preclude them from signing some of the following to extensions: Deoin, Eugene, Asante, Koppen, Wilfork, Warren or any number of players that are on the right side of 30.

The bottomline is you must set a tone and stand by it. The Patriots do this. They fairly compensate deserving players, like Brady and Seymour. They also allow good players that are past their prime leave.

[quietjets]

all we need is to take a 6th round QB who is a HOF'er and the Jets will be awesome - just like the Pats!

Do you mean Quinten(sp) Porter of BC? I guess we have to trade away our 2 7th round picks to get a 6th round pick since we dont have a 6th round pick as of right now.

[Maxman]

Do you mean Quinten(sp) Porter of BC? I guess we have to trade away our 2 7th round picks to get a 6th round pick since we dont have a 6th round pick as of right now.

If you guys guarantee that he will be a Hall Of Famer, I say we just use our 5th round pick on him.

No reason to get greedy!

[Jetlag]

Jesus H Christ! We're not talking about how the team was developed...we're talking schemes here. Doesn't make a difference how you got your players, but how you got them to play in a particular scheme.

That's the point. The Cowboys scheme wasn't particularly special but when you line your team with future HOF's, scheme's aren't as important. There was nothing to follow with the Cowboys besides exceptional drafting and money.

[rajensen088]

all we need is to take a 6th round QB who is a HOF'er and the Jets will be awesome - just like the Pats!

Here's the draft report from TSN on a 2006 QB draft propect who can be taken in the 5th round (Jets don't have a 6th round pick. The analysis looks like it was cut and pasted from Joel Buschsbaum's draft analysis of Tom Brady. Who is he?

Strengths: Is big and tall. Has a strong arm and good mechanics; is accurate on both downfield and underneath routes. Throws catchable balls and has a good feel for leading receivers and hitting open men. Shows good pocket presence' willing to step up and take hits to complete passes. Has become more consistent and better at reading defenses. Is a leader with great intangibles.

Weaknesses: Lacks speed and mobility. Tends to stand in the pocket too long. Lacks the elusiveness to avoid hits. Isn't a running threat.

[PatsFanTX]

Jesus H Christ! We're not talking about how the team was developed...we're talking schemes here. Doesn't make a difference how you got your players, but how you got them to play in a particular scheme.

And again, schemes don't mean crap if the players are not good enough to play in them.

Do you have any idea how many Pro Bowl players that Cowboy team had?

Do you think that Cowboy team had a 30%+ roster change each year like teams do today?

It is a lot easier to maintain a dynasty when you have Pro Bowl players and consistency on the roster from year to year.

[DeanPatsFan]

My question is...why must we follow the Pats model of winning? Dallas Cowboys also won 3 out of 4 SB's in the 90's (and mind you, two different HC's), and I don't recall anyone following their model for winning.

They did... In miami and Jimmy Johnson failed miserably.

[mbn007]

They did... In miami and Jimmy Johnson failed miserably.

And he had the HOF Q/B in place already, albeit a tad on the old side.

[Boozer76]

The "model" that we all discuss in regards to the Pats is so off base and misunderstood it's not even funny. Do the Pats win 1 SB if Bledsoe was the QB the whole time? Do they win 1 if they got some middle of the road QB like Garcia/Feidler/Dilfer/Brooks/Brunell? Not a chance.

The real "model" of the Patriots is to find the best QB in the league and pair him with an outstanding D and Special Teams. Give that QB a good OL, adequate receivers, and a sufficient running game and bingo, you've got 3 SB's. Make that outstanding D just an above average D and threy still win at least 1 SB. Give them average SpT's and they still win at least 1 SB. The only thing/person you can take away from the Pats and without a doubt would not have even 1 SB in the last 5 years is Tom Brady. Give NE an average QB and they don't win anything. Give them a decent QB ala Delhomme/Green/Hasselbeck and maybe they win 1. But the bottom line is NE got VERY lucky in finding a gem like Brady in the late rounds. In fact, if a team drafts a QB as good as Brady 1st overall, then they too are very lucky.

Unless we end up with a QB who is as good or nearly as good as Brady, then we CAN'T rest on our laurels of thinking we can do everything else exactly like NE and expect to win. 2 other recent teams won a SB with average to adequate QB's, TB and BAL. Both of those teams were remarkably different than NE. They both not only had great D's, they had the best D's in the league. They also had an elite running game, whether it consisted of 1 RB like BAL or a committee like TB's. NE's D was fantastic, but they weren't elite. NE's running game has been decent through the years, but they were able to live without it if necessary.

The bottom line is we have a long way to go if our idea is to mold ourselves after NE's model, and we are going to need a miracle at QB one way or another.

[PatsFanTX]

The "model" that we all discuss in regards to the Pats is so off base and misunderstood it's not even funny. Do the Pats win 1 SB if Bledsoe was the QB the whole time? Do they win 1 if they got some middle of the road QB like Garcia/Feidler/Dilfer/Brooks/Brunell? Not a chance.

The real "model" of the Patriots is to find the best QB in the league and pair him with an outstanding D and Special Teams. Give that QB a good OL, adequate receivers, and a sufficient running game and bingo, you've got 3 SB's. Make that outstanding D just an above average D and threy still win at least 1 SB. Give them average SpT's and they still win at least 1 SB. The only thing/person you can take away from the Pats and without a doubt would not have even 1 SB in the last 5 years is Tom Brady. Give NE an average QB and they don't win anything. Give them a decent QB ala Delhomme/Green/Hasselbeck and maybe they win 1. But the bottom line is NE got VERY lucky in finding a gem like Brady in the late rounds. In fact, if a team drafts a QB as good as Brady 1st overall, then they too are very lucky.

Unless we end up with a QB who is as good or nearly as good as Brady, then we CAN'T rest on our laurels of thinking we can do everything else exactly like NE and expect to win. 2 other recent teams won a SB with average to adequate QB's, TB and BAL. Both of those teams were remarkably different than NE. They both not only had great D's, they had the best D's in the league. They also had an elite running game, whether it consisted of 1 RB like BAL or a committee like TB's. NE's D was fantastic, but they weren't elite. NE's running game has been decent through the years, but they were able to live without it if necessary.

The bottom line is we have a long way to go if our idea is to mold ourselves after NE's model, and we are going to need a miracle at QB one way or another.

I pretty much agree with you Boozer.

But just to play devils advocate (which I rarely do), Brady had a great year in 2002 which he led the NFL in TD passes. But the Pats failed to make the playoffs because the defense (ranked 31st) could not stop the run.

My point being, good/great teams in the NFL have very solid play from both the OLine and DLine. If one of those breaks down, it doesn't matter how good of a QB you have behind center.

Ask Dan Marino if you don't believe me.

[bitonti]

Here's the draft report from TSN on a 2006 QB draft propect who can be taken in the 5th round (Jets don't have a 6th round pick. The analysis looks like it was cut and pasted from Joel Buschsbaum's draft analysis of Tom Brady. Who is he?

Strengths: Is big and tall. Has a strong arm and good mechanics; is accurate on both downfield and underneath routes. Throws catchable balls and has a good feel for leading receivers and hitting open men. Shows good pocket presence' willing to step up and take hits to complete passes. Has become more consistent and better at reading defenses. Is a leader with great intangibles.

Weaknesses: Lacks speed and mobility. Tends to stand in the pocket too long. Lacks the elusiveness to avoid hits. Isn't a running threat.

i like games like this! Im going to guess Paul Pinegar from fresno state

[Boozer76]

I pretty much agree with you Boozer.

But just to play devils advocate (which I rarely do), Brady had a great year in 2002 which he led the NFL in TD passes. But the Pats failed to make the playoffs because the defense (ranked 31st) could not stop the run.

My point being, good/great teams in the NFL have very solid play from both the OLine and DLine. If one of those breaks down, it doesn't matter how good of a QB you have behind center.

Ask Dan Marino if you don't believe me.

I agree with that Tx. Belicheck's genius comes into play in the way he manages to put a top tier D on the field, relatively cheap. He gets guys that fit the system and gets the most out of them. The Pats D was good every time they won a SB, but it was never the best in the league ala BAL or TB. It was enough to get the job done to allow their QB to win the games. You can't have the Pats D and expect to win with a marginal QB is what I'm saying.

[PatsFanTX]

You can't have the Pats D and expect to win with a marginal QB is what I'm saying.

I'm with you on that one.

Brady has come up huge in many big game situations, especially in the playoffs.

Marginal QB's rarely make the big plays that are required in the playoffs.

That's what separates Brady from the vast majority of QB's in the NFL.

[Maxman]

Brady has come up huge in many big game situations, especially in the playoffs.

Yes. I like his fumble against the Raiders. One could say that really started this whole thing for the Pats.

[Ten]

I agree with that Tx. Belicheck's genius comes into play in the way he manages to put a top tier D on the field, relatively cheap. He gets guys that fit the system and gets the most out of them. The Pats D was good every time they won a SB, but it was never the best in the league ala BAL or TB. It was enough to get the job done to allow their QB to win the games. You can't have the Pats D and expect to win with a marginal QB is what I'm saying.

The pats defense was the best in the league in 2003 and 2nd best in 2004.Granted they weren't on the same level as the ravens but they played at a high level for a longer period of time.I really believe the pats defense doesn't get enough credit for how they've played during the last several years.IMO it's the other way around,the pats D win games and Brady gets the job done.

[rajensen088]

i like games like this! Im going to guess Paul Pinegar from fresno state

Drew Olson from UCLA!. He's the most invisible QB in the draft having played second fiddle to Leinart in LA last year, he's not getting any love at all. Here's his stats from the NCAA compared to all the other QB's:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=pass&group=80&year=2005&sort=passtds

He tore up his knee in 2005 in UCLA's Bowl game, had surgery but played the entire season this year putting up terrific numbers. Draft rating must be based on his injury history, but certainly worth a look at pick 5, 6, or 7.

Here's Buschsbaum's analysis of Tom Brady before the draft he was taken in... could be Drew Olson's:

Michigan

[PatsFanTX]

Yes. I like his fumble against the Raiders. One could say that really started this whole thing for the Pats.

Dumbass, it wasn't a fumble.

BTW, Brady was 11/11 in the 4th quarter and OT versus the Raiders.

[raffyD]

Here's the draft report from TSN on a 2006 QB draft propect who can be taken in the 5th round (Jets don't have a 6th round pick. The analysis looks like it was cut and pasted from Joel Buschsbaum's draft analysis of Tom Brady. Who is he?

Strengths: Is big and tall. Has a strong arm and good mechanics; is accurate on both downfield and underneath routes. Throws catchable balls and has a good feel for leading receivers and hitting open men. Shows good pocket presence' willing to step up and take hits to complete passes. Has become more consistent and better at reading defenses. Is a leader with great intangibles.

Weaknesses: Lacks speed and mobility. Tends to stand in the pocket too long. Lacks the elusiveness to avoid hits. Isn't a running threat.

I don't knw the answer but would surely like to find out.

[Maxman]

Dumbass, it wasn't a fumble.

BTW, Brady was 11/11 in the 4th quarter and OT versus the Raiders.

The 11 for 11 doesn't really count. After the Raiders knew the game was fixed, they lost all their motivation. Can't say I blame them.

[raffyD]

I don't knw the answer but would surely like to find out.

Well now I know!

Olson sounds great, basically any qb not taken in the 1st round will have my approval.

And TX, on a side note, that was fumble to anyone that has ever put pads on and played football, period.

[raffyD]

BTW, Olson went 14 for 32 against the stout USC defense that Vince Young manhandled. I only bring up Young because I have heard people say that "he only beat USC, they have a terrible defense with no pro prospects" and not because I would rather have Young than Olson.

[rajensen088]

i like games like this! Im going to guess Paul Pinegar from fresno state

Even though the report was on Drew Olson TSN also has similar evaluations of Paul Pinegar. Give me a second day pick with intangibles and college production and discount the negatives on athleticism etc.

Tom Brady wasn't the only Pro Bowl QB taken in the 6th round recently. Marc Bulger and Matt Hassleback were also 6th round picks. All three were Pro Bowl QB's.

The thread is following the Patriot model, if that's the case, then the Jets should be looking at QB's like Paul Pinegar and Drew Olson for a second day gamble.