ZACH WILSON isn’t on the Jets anymore discussion (merged)

[sourceworx]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Denver head coach Sean Payton said, “We’ll see,” when asked if Wilson would have further chances to practice with the first-stringers.

 

lol

Yikes

[Jetsfan80]

NY Post reporting on the Denver QB race.  Quit beating that dead horse guys, he’s been gone for like 3 months!!! 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, sourceworx said:

Yikes

“We’ll see.”  Same thing my manager said when I asked if I’d get a good bonus at the height of inflation last year.  

[Jetsfan80]

“We’ll see.”  Same thing the OceanGate folks said when asked how many more safe trips to the Titantic they could make.  

[Jetsfan80]

“We’ll see.”  Same thing blimp makers said when asked if Hydrogen was still viable to use after the Hindenburg disaster.

[Jetsfan80]

“We’ll see.”  Same thing metal fans said about Metallica’s artistic future after the death of bassist Cliff Burton in 1986.

[Jetsfan80]

“We’ll see”.  Same thing USSR leaders said about the future of their empire after the fall of the Berlin Wall.  

[sourceworx]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

“We’ll see.”  Same thing my manager said when I asked if I’d get a good bonus at the height of inflation last year.  

It's the same answer I give my kids when I know they won't like my true answer. 😆

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, sourceworx said:

It's the same answer I give my kids when I know they won't like my true answer. 😆

“Can we get McDonald’s for dinner?”

”Can we stay up past 9 tonight?”

”Will the goddamn Jets win this week?”

[sourceworx]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

“Can we get McDonald’s for dinner?”

”Can we stay up past 9 tonight?”

”Will the goddamn Jets win this week?”

"We'll see."

[Rich Thornburgh]

But he’s a “good kid”

[T0mShane]

JARRETT STIDHAM

[sourceworx]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

“We’ll see”.  Same thing USSR leaders said about the future of their empire after the fall of the Berlin Wall.  

"We'll see." Same thing French leaders said when asked if the Maginot Line would prevent the Germans from invading.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Meh ... I defended the kid against haters .... hoped to see improvement that never came ... Never countered against reasonable and well deserved criticism ... More countering against attacks on his mom, religion, economic background, hair, baseless mike white apostlization etc etc etc ... To this point in his life ... Zach is not NFL material. But he does have physical gifts you can't coach.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk


 

Thats a rather self-serving and inaccurate re-telling of history. 

The noble Dunnie, just "defending a kid and his defenseless mommy from haters, religious bigots and dirty communists", lol.   Cute story.

I guess some folks simply can't just admit they were horribly wrong about a sports evaluation, and just own it, without all the laughable faux-noble rationalizations and "well, akshually" explanations....

[Warfish]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

“We’ll see.”  Same thing metal fans said about Metallica’s artistic future after the death of bassist Cliff Burton in 1986.

Justice and Black are great albums. 

Obvious mainstreaming attempt, self-indulgence, musical vision divergence and general quality decline from there, no question, but in no universe are Justice and Black bad albums artistically or otherwise.  

[sourceworx]

Sean Payton when asked who is ahead of Zach on the depth chart:

[Claymation]

52 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@Claymation standings update?  

[Claymation]

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Justice and Black are great albums. 

Obvious mainstreaming attempt, self-indulgence, musical vision divergence and general quality decline from there, no question, but in no universe are Justice and Black bad albums artistically or otherwise.  

You can’t even HEAR the bass on And Justice though.  lol.  “One” is my all-time fave Metallica song though…

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

NY Post reporting on the Denver QB race.  Quit beating that dead horse guys, he’s been gone for like 3 months!!! 

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

JARRETT STIDHAM

Maybe Zach shoulda deigned to attend “Camp Stiddy”, huh.

[Scott Dierking]

Only done for levity. It is a fickle existence on sports message board. Lova ya, 80. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Only done for levity. It is a fickle existence on sports message board. Lova ya, 80. 

 

Even the best of us can duped by that siren song known as “FLASHES!”

[Jetsfan80]

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Justice and Black are great albums. 

Obvious mainstreaming attempt, self-indulgence, musical vision divergence and general quality decline from there, no question, but in no universe are Justice and Black bad albums artistically or otherwise.  

 

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can’t even HEAR the bass on And Justice though.  lol.  “One” is my all-time fave Metallica song though…

Adding on to this an analogy @T0mShane will love and @#27TheDominator will hate:

Metallica post-Burton was much like the Jets post-Parcells.  There were enough remnants there to make And Justice a solid album and for Black Album make the band achieve popularity (The “We play to win the game” or “let’s eat a GD snack” moments, for instance).  

But it quickly became clear afterwards (and Black Album itself was a warning sign for metal fans) they were a hollow shell of the former artistic ability they had without their most important band member.  

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even the best of us can duped by that siren song known as “FLASHES!”

Done many times by me.

I remembered this thread, because I remembered the one time you lathered Zach, and thought it would be amusing. Through a simple short search of what were "good" games by Zach, finding the date, and posts by you. Voila.

Not much of a needle in a haystack search. Thanks for being a good sport. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Done many times by me.

I remembered this thread, because I remembered the one time you lathered Zach, and thought it would be amusing. Through a simple short search of what were "good" games by Zach, finding the date, and posts by you. Voila.

Not much of a needle in a haystack search. Thanks for being a good sport. 

This franchise drafted Darnold off one college performance as a freshman and Zach Wilson off one throw in shorts.  This franchise needs better foresight on QBs than the common fan, lol.  

[Warfish]

32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can’t even HEAR the bass on And Justice though.  lol.  “One” is my all-time fave Metallica song though…

To be clear, I'm not claiming Justice is a perfect album.  It isn't, and the sidelining of Jason's more-than-adequate bass tracks is a big part of that.  But it's still a very good album, and while Black is much more commercial sounding, it's also an exceptional album, with a much better mix, and several all-time-great songs.

I'm also a fan of many of the later albums (St. Anger and LuLu obv. excluded), so clearly biased, but I'd agree it's unquestionable that the band declined post-Black album.  How much, debatable, and probably more complex than "good before, sucked after", but yeah. 

No question the band lost something special with Cliff, his classical knowledge/background and his touches on songwriting/riff writing were something special.  But in fairness, the band also got old, let more of their non-metal influences shine, and cliche-rock-star-addiction, egomania and self-indulgence clearly played a role in the worst of their post Black productions.  

With all that said, there are plenty of songs post-Black absolutely worthy of pre-Black Metallica quality.  Lets also not deify something just because we loved it, "Trapped Under Ice" is a pretty bad song, as are several others even on those classic albums.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

To be clear, I'm not claiming Justice is a perfect album.  It isn't, and the sidelining of Jasons more-than-adequate bass tracks in a big part of that.  But it's still a very good album, and while Black is much more commercial sounding, it's also an exceptional album, with a much better mix, and several all-time-great songs.

I'm also a fan of many of the later albums (St. Anger and LuLu obv. excluded), so clearly biased, but I'd agree it's unquestionable that the band declined post-Black album.  How much, debatable, and probably more complex than "good before, sucked after", but yeah. 

It’s an interesting discussion, to be sure. Metallica went into the mainstream….because they could.  And made a lot of money off it.  Can only hate so much on that.

Part of me thinks they knew they’d never be close to the same without Cliff and changed course as a result.  They WERE the band that wanted to be louder and faster than everyone else, while still maintaining an artistically pleasing sound because of Cliff keeping them anchored and not allowing them to sound like any old thrash group.  Hell, they almost opted to go without a lead singer, and Hetfield only agreed to do it because “no one else wanted to.”

With Cliff gone they threw out the playbook.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

“Trapped Under Ice" is a pretty bad song

So bad they didn’t even opt to play it when they made their Antarctic trip, LOL

[Warfish]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s an interesting discussion, to be sure. Metallica went into the mainstream….because they could.  And made a lot of money off it.  Can only hate so much on that.

Part of me thinks they knew they’d never be close to the same without Cliff and changed course as a result.  They WERE the band that wanted to be louder and faster than everyone else, while still maintaining an artistically pleasing sound because of Cliff keeping them anchored.  Hell, they almost opted to go without a lead singer, and Hetfield only agreed to do it because “no one else wanted to.”

With Cliff gone they threw out the playbook.

I think that when the mainstream found them (i.e. Justice and "One") it suddenly dawned on them collectively that they could not only be metal darlings (i.e. niche) but global superstars as well.  And they 100% leaned into it, because frankly, they didn't make a whole lot of money from their early career.  Money corrupts, no question, as does ego.  But the flip side is Black opened metal up the the masses and made a lot of guys in the scene a lot of money they otherwise wouldn't have.  Pro/Con.

But I'll keep pushing back on the punk-like "it's either hard core true punk or it's trash" mentality.  I'm not a fan of purity tests on music, mainstream music can and often is good music too.  Just because more than 100 people show up to a show doesn't make it sh*t, lol.

The problem with Metallica is that James is and always has been a pretty trash lyric writer but an exceptional riff writer.  When it was James & Cliff both writing riffs, it was peak.  Once it was mostly just James (because he froze out Jason and Kirk) it was still some amazing metal riffs, but the songs were worse.  

But I'll say this, put "All Nightmare Long" or "Judas Kiss" on those old albums, and they'd be classics now too.  

What is unquestionable is that James blew out his voice on Black and the Black tour.  Fundamentally blown.  Irreparably blown.  That change, that he literally couldn't sing like he did on the classic albums, combined with no Cliff and not allowing Jason influence, changed everything too.  Combine his new (required) singing style/ability with his letting his country and southern rock and other influences in to his songwriting, and you get a lot of whats on the Loads.

Also, "The Outlaw Torn" and "Fixxxer" may not be classic Metallica, but they're still amazing songs IMO.  

Ok, enough, BUT WHAT ABOUT ZACH WILSON!!!!

[Dunnie]

Thats a rather self-serving and inaccurate re-telling of history. 
The noble Dunnie, just "defending a kid and his defenseless mommy from haters, religious bigots and dirty communists", lol.   Cute story.
I guess some folks simply can't just admit they were horribly wrong about a sports evaluation, and just own it, without all the laughable faux-noble rationalizations and "well, akshually" explanations....

Oh my my ... Believe what you want .. if you go back and read each of my posts , my position has never changed ... Always said the kid had an amazing golden arm that needed to learn how to play the game. Also thought he was a much better prospect than Justin Fields .. who in my mind is not a QB. Steelers could prove me wrong on that.

Anyway... No point in arguing positions .. I will always own supporting Zach through his tenure of failure. And don't really mind the gloating by those finding validation in his failures ... It usually comes from wanting this Team to do well.

Also mad props on the Metallica nostalgia trip.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, Warfish said:

But I'll say this, put "All Nightmare Long" or "Judas Kiss" on those old albums, and they'd be classics now too.  

Yes!  Death Magnetic is easily their best post-Black album but no one really noticed it.  Really got back to their thrash roots.  I missed out on an opportunity to see Metallica in Charlotte coming off that album and regretted it.  Saw them later but never got to hear any of those songs live.

[Joe W. Namath]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Justice and Black are great albums. 

Obvious mainstreaming attempt, self-indulgence, musical vision divergence and general quality decline from there, no question, but in no universe are Justice and Black bad albums artistically or otherwise.  

Fire to begin whipping dance of the dead 
Blackened is the end

[TBJ]

It's amazing how virtually the entire league is blind to Zach Wilson's greatness, and only a special few can see it here on JN.

Zach Wilson's starter dreams crushed after losing worst QB battle in NFL

It's over for Zach Wilson

 

https://thejetpress.com/posts/zach-wilson-starter-dreams-crushed-losing-worst-qb-battle-nfl-ny-jets-01j42gppvryk

[bicketybam]

29 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Fire to begin whipping dance of the dead 
Blackened is the end

Such a great song. I know One gets all the accolades but it's like the 6th or 7th best song on that album. Blackened, Shortest Straw, Harvester of Sorrow, Eye of the Beholder, the Frayed Ends in Sanity, Dyers Eve...all better. 

Don't get me started on the Black album.